From: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #232 Reply-To: Sender: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, June 30 1998 Volume 03 : Number 232 IMPORTANT - The JMDL has moved! Post all messages to from this point on. Update your address books! ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Repackaged "Hits" ["Kakki" ] I swore to myself I wasn't gonna say anything, but... [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Al Date ["John Villasana" ] Re: Joni's right to arm bears [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: The Gambler's Song ["Deb Messling" ] re: The doctor is IN--$.10 [Robert Holliston ] NJC Art meets Technology ["Julie Z. Webb" ] re: Joni's voice. [Hassan Zubairi ] Joni in cartoon [Hassan Zubairi ] Jamie from England - NJC [Hassan Zubairi ] Re: Repackaged "Hits" ["Mark Domyancich" ] RE: nra (vljc) [Brian Gross ] Re: songs about parents - add to the list [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective [Jerry Notaro ] Combining threads :) [BH1248@aol.com] Re: doc is IN--15 for 2 [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: I swore to myself I wasn't gonna say anything, but... [TerryM2442@aol] Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective ["Mark Domyancich" ] Re: NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Combining threads :) [catman ] Re: The doctor is IN--$.10 [catman ] Re: Combining threads :) [catman ] NJC NRA [Steve Dulson ] Magdalen Laundry [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Re: Why We Choose Between Joni's Different Voices [Melinda Everett ] Re: Joni's Voice [jan gyn ] Re: NJC Art meets Technology [Bill Dollinger ] Re:John Winston's rents [jan gyn ] Re: The doctor is IN--$.10 [FredNow@aol.com] Re: NJC Art meets Technology ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: What Would Joni Think of All This??? ["Mark Domyancich" ] snl censorship (NJC) [Bill Dollinger ] MOA Vinyl ["Mark Domyancich" ] nra-njc [Bill Dollinger ] Re: MOA Vinyl [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Bea Arthur (njc) [Heather ] Re: Myrtle, Mary Grace and cancer-sticks [Maggie McNally ] Re: NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. [Thomas Ross ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:41:10 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Repackaged "Hits" Has anyone seen the new re-packaged "Hits" or "Misses" CD? I saw the new-fashioned "Hits" in Tower Records the other day. It's in a jewel case and the front is a black and white photo of Joni's face in profile from around 1967. The back is one of the scenes of Joni lying in the street from the original package. Kakki NP: The Essential Gene Clark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:12:19 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: I swore to myself I wasn't gonna say anything, but... I just *can't* let this go by! Al Date wrote: << An alternative view is that Joni is such a genius that << she can write a song like Magdalene Laundries in the << first person on nothing more than a newspaper article. Yes!!!! This is exactly it, Al!!! (Now it's me who's taking little bits and pieces of *Al's* post to prove *my* point! Sorry, Al. I just couldn't resist! :^D ) << While this is certainly a possibility, I think it more likely << that she easily relates to the sadness and shame felt by << "fallen women," as she has grappled with her << mother's shaming her throughout her life, as seen in 1972 << in Let the Wind Carry Me, and in Song to Sharon (76?) and >> in Facelift, and you know there may be more. I agree that her Mom gave her a hard time, but I don't think Joni has ever imagined herself as a "fallen woman" - I don't think she has ever labeled herself ever with these words - not even unconsciously! "Fallen women" is a term used by moralists and implies that sex out of wedlock is a bad thing and that women who do it are bad. If anything, I would bet my guitar that Joni finds such labels and moralizing totally hypocritical - e.g. listen to Tax Free, and even Magdelene Laundries for that matter! I am sure that in Magdelene Laundries she finds it totally amazing that a woman could be locked up just for men looking at her because she's beautiful or for getting pregnant by the parish priest - if that isn't punishing the victim, I don't know what is!!! Do you not hear this in the song? << I have really tried to find a bottom line to my starting this thread, << and it may be that I am just uncomfortable worshipping ANY ONE. This is a hard one. But how can we deny being awed by the sheer genius of this woman? She's like on the outer edges of human possibility, IMO. She has been given the gifts of beauty, gab, song, poetry and art and it's rare that that all ever comes together in one individual. In many ways, she really is like a heavenly incarnation - at least artistically - - wouldn't you say? How can we not admire that? And how come more people don't love her as much as we do? This is really the more puzzling question, IMO! :^D << Are they worth that much of a multiple over Les << or Wally or Julie, or any of us? Definitely not! << So, I'm sorry. Whenever I find myself starting to worship << someone, I kind of get a "holy shit what am I doing" reaction, << and start looking for warts and human imperfections and << reasons for me to NOT elevate the statue. Why don't you think about elevating yourself, Al? I mean, finding the good in yourself and being the best you can be where ever you are at this point in time? Rather than tearing down other people, elevate yourself - find what it is about being uniquely you that is really special and that no one else can give? Joni Mitchell obviously has some really good karma - spent her last life in the Magdelene Laundries, probably, and is reaping the rewards today! :^D We are where we are for some reason which may not in this moment be apparent, but I really believe that we must make the best of where we are - live in the moment and apply the best of our heart and spirit to it. Each of us has something special to offer. << I am much more comfortable enjoying the excellent music << of Joni Mitchell, than "worshipping" that person. So I am << fully back down to zero gods/goddesses in my life. << Sorry if I upset the choir. No, I think you've brought up some real questions that all of us have asked at one point or another - maybe not in respect of ourselves vs. Joni, but perhaps because of other people in our lives. It's the whole envy thing, really. I feel a need to share this incredible piece of literature from Nelson Mandela, which I think really fits here: "Our worst fear is not that we are inadequate; our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God; your playing small doesn't serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God within us. It is not just in some of us, it is in everyone, and as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." - Nelson Mandela I think many of us have been raised to hide our light - it may be a cultural thing. I was raised like that! And so it is very hard to absorb these word of Nelson Mandela, but they express what I believe is our purpose in the world - to realize and express our uniqueness - our divinity, if you will (I apologize to list members for preaching or using words which may rub you the wrong way!). I think Joni shows us what is possible in a human being - I think she is living the words of Nelson Mandela in this regard - and that we should aspire to achieve our own personal greatness, which won't look like Joni Mitchell's greatness, but it will be just as beautiful. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 03:59:56 -0500 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Al Date Al wrote: "I have really tried to find a bottom line to my starting this thread, and it may be that I am just uncomfortable worshipping Anyone...So, I'm sorry. Whenever I find myself starting to worship someone, I kind of get a "holy shit what am I doing" reaction, and start looking for warts and human imperfections and reasons for me to NOT elevate the statue. I am much more comfortable enjoying the excellent music of Joni Mitchell, than "worshipping" that person. So I am fully back down to zero gods/goddesses in my life. Sorry if I upset the choir." I'm not completely sure why, but I have learned that though it is important to know of exemplary individuals, and draw strength from their example, it is more important (at least to me) to become your own god or goddess. I also think IMHO, that it is valuable to know that your mentors are human. It makes your own mistakes much more comfortable to live with. Especially if you really care about doing the right thing (in the grand scheme of things, that is.) It's really easy to love Joni based on the genius of her creativity, and the intelligent and comforting sentiments that she writes about. I love those things too, but I bet she's very normal in a lot of other ways. So I guess I'm saying that I understand and sympathize with Al. :-) Cheers John Villasana San Antonio TX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 05:37:42 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's right to arm bears << If Joni Mitchell decided that she (or one of her people) needed a gun to protect herself from a stalker, I would think that she HAS THAT RIGHT...>> ...Then can I walk beside you I have come here to lose the smog And I feel to be a cog in something turning Well maybe it is just the time of year Or maybe it's the time of man I don't know who I am But life is for learning... We are stardust We are golden And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden By the time we got to Woodstock We were half a million strong And everywhere there was song and celebration And I dreamed I saw the bombers Riding shotgun in the sky And they were turning into butterflies Above our nation... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 06:02:26 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: The Gambler's Song Just to set the record straight, Joni said in a later radio interview that the story about how she wrong the gambler's song wasn't true; it was just a funny way to introduce the song on stage. > Dr. Karen Mc held nothing back: > > > Did she also say that "many songs (had gone) > > unfinished because lyrics might be offensive to mother" thus leading > > to Al's interpretation that joni "sanitizes her work"? > > Um, well, there was at least one song, about a gambler, which went: > > "In a day or two, > I'll be laying you... > > Odds." Deb Messling "Without music, life would be an error." --Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: re: The doctor is IN--$.10 Al wrote, > I love DED, but it strikes me as being very out of character compared to >her other works. I don't think she is comfortable with intense social >criticism. Well, as a lister who does not (yet) love DED (I'm trying, really hard, but I still hear DED as an interesting sonic experiment), I just want to say that Joni herself said in an interview that this album could have been called "Songs of a Couch Potato." She and Klein were staying home most nights playing cribbage. Somehow that makes a kind of sense: "I picked up the morning paper off the floor" (The Three Great Stimulants); "I'm reading people rags in the checkout lane" (Shiny Toys) - Ethiopia was also observed via the media, from a distance. She seems to view things from a distance on this album, IMHO, even if she does so passionately and with great empathy. But she is certainly not uncomfortable with intense social criticism! To my ears, Turbulent Indigo is full of deeply felt social criticism (and, again to my ears, it is much more persuasively argued than on DED because it is more sincerely and deeply felt - DED is often astonishing, but sometimes naive: TI is always astonishing, but she isn't an observer any more; she's a participant, which makes her commentary not only impressive but moving). But even in her early years, Joni made some acidic social comments: Big Yellow Taxi (!), The Arrangement, Banquet, Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire, most of HOSL (Harry's House and the title track come immediately to mind), and some of DJRD. And you know there may be more, these examples just occurred to me. Then there is CMIAR (still, to my mind, the most underrated album Joni Mitchell ever released) and NRH, both of which contain songs which could not have been written by someone who was unconfortable with social criticism. Just my thoughts... Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 07:24:19 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: NJC Art meets Technology Im so excited, I want to share this with everyone. As a lot of you know, my husband and I started a high tech company two years ago to market a 3 D/volume-measuring camera which my husband invented, Well today our camera, "The Virtuoso" (www.visint.com) is featured in The New York Times/ Science Times section in an article titled, "Michelangelo's Heartbreak Comes to Life in New Light: transforming his Pieta to 80 Gigabytes" Our 3d camera was the camera chosen by the team of scientists from IBM's TJ Watson research center in order to explore and capture what the Pieta looked like before the broken pieces were put back on. -Julie, up in the clouds of Michelangelo...... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:17:34 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: re: Joni's voice. Dear Gang, Those of us that are still bothered with this discussion, I'm new to Jimdler's List and am very grateful to have found anyone that share's my love of that great woman and her talent. Anyhoo. I have never heard James Brown do How Do You Stop (TI for those that have been in a coma) but that pause on the first chorus when she says: How do you stop before it's too late? You choose and you lose if you hesitate. How do you stop before it's too late? You think love will wait so you don't hold on And then it's....gone. That pause she takes just before gone, when she takes her breath, is absolutely perfect. As a trained actor and singer knowing song phrasing, the what's the why's there wherefores, that little pause is simply amazing. It colours the song with a despair which the words themselves don't really convey. You try singing it without the pause as she does in the other two choruses - she doesn't milk it - and discover that feeling when you have to take that pause. I don't care that she doesn't have the soprano, it was beautiful and lovely (the live version of A Case Of You on Miles of Aisles is simply heartbreaking). I hope this introduction of mine is ok for a Jimdle virgin. For anyone that cares, I'm in London England and know no-one that loves her music as much as I (in England that is, before I get loads of mail saying otherwise). Please email me privately if you want to connect. Jamie Zubairi otherwise known as Jake Holborn. for everyone: a rose. (@) | | \|/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:22:07 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Joni in cartoon To all the uk Joni's People. Did anyone read in the Guardian the cartoon strip (I can't remember who by) of the episode where the main character was talking to his companion about a third party? It went something like this: John: How is she doing now? Mary: Oh, you know, not so bad. She's vegetarian now. She's turned holistic. John: Holistic? Mary: Yes. It's doing her some good....Apart from the side effects. John: Side effects? Mary: Yes... Joni Mitchell morning noon and night. I think even she will laugh at that. Jamie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:15:58 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Jamie from England - NJC Dear Gang, Jamie Zubairi from London England would like to receive email from all the other Jimdler's List in the UK as I know no one else with a modem who loves Joni Mitchell and care enough to connect with other joniphiles (a word I don't agree with I'm trying to think up another word for it - any ideas? It doesn't sit well in my vocabulary) Linda Brady, thank god -I knew you were English when you said fags. I only stopped to read it because of that. Please email me if you feel like. Also fan of Shawn Colvin, Rickie Lee Jones, Suzanne Vega, jazz - via Joni - Tom Waits, David Gray, Sinead O'Connor, Jeff Buckley, restoration music(?), theatre - I'm an actor trying to get work. Also known as Jake Holborn (professionally). Why doesn't Joni play in England!!!!!!! I would kill to see her. Or, at least maim :-D JamieJake HolbornZubairi I've got to get some air I'm going outside to get some air. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 07:04:58 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: Repackaged "Hits" Heya Kakki! I've seen the jewel box version of Hits, but not Misses. Instead of having the profile you're talking about (The liner note front photo from the paper version?) it just has the cover of Hits as the front picture. Also, my Hits and Misses paper CDs are turning yellow: did Henry Diltz forget to rinse off all of the fixer? (Stupid joke for us photographers). Kakki wrote: Subject: RE: nra (vljc) Patrick and all, Like Scott, I am also a Life Member of the National Rifle Association. And I also choose not to make the JMDL the site of a debate of our Second Amendment rights. So just let it be. Brian === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:26:35 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: songs about parents - add to the list trxschwa wrote: > judy collins - my father (especially in this mortal coil's recording, sung BRILLIANTLY by alison limerick.) Yes. They know a great song when they hear it. Great group, too > is mill worker the same song bette midler recorded on 'thighs and whispers'? jerry, you might know. a great performance of a great song One of the best. James Taylor wrote it for the musical Working, though it is not about his parents. > .come to think of it, the clapton song might be a recording of judy's composition, which is sometimes titled 'my father's eyes' My Father's Eyes is not the same as My Father, which is definitely Judy's composition. Her first, I believe. Jerry Happy Pride Day ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:34:57 +0100 From: Linda Brady Subject: A very cool list... Can I just say that *this list is so cool*! It's always interesting to read, because there's always some kinda heated debate going on....I've been subscribed to a bunch of other lists, but this one makes the best use of the ability to communicate. This NRA thing has me riveted. You go... Thanks, Linda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:33:53 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. In a message dated 6/30/98 12:24:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rosst@union.edu writes: << for me, exceptions to the generally repellent accordion are Rumanian gypsy accordion; >> Tom, Doesn't k.d. Lang use some accordion in her songs? Can't recall the name of the song I'm thinking of, but it works really well on it. Then again, there's Billy Joel.... Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:42:10 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective I'm a big Carly fan, also. And she is definitely an alto. She never was able to hit the stratospheric notes that Joni did in her youth. So the aging of her voice hasn't affected her range as much as it has Joni's. Of course, that's fine with Joni who referred to those as her helium days. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:47:57 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Bea Arthur (njc) TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > I've always wondered why she wore a scarf around her neck in every episode of > her show. Anyone know why? Sorry...but if anyone knows, it's someone from this > group. Well, as sherrie knows, I'm a big Golden Girls, and Bea Arthur fan. I saw her in Mame as a young lad and loved her foghorn voice. Bea has had more than a few facelifts. But there is litlle they can do for the neck. Take a close look at Dyan Cannon on Ally McBeal. Thus, the scarves. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:53:18 EDT From: BH1248@aol.com Subject: Combining threads :) FYI, I have it on good authority that Joni's next album will be an album of accordian instrumentals dedicated to the NRA. Due her smoke-devastated declining voice she's opted for the instrumental route and has been seen around Bel Air gun shops noodling with an VG-8 enhanced accordian to accomodate her tunings. A cover of "Happiness is a Warm Gun" is rumored. Check Soldier of Fortune magazine for tour dates. Archery enthusiast Ted Nugent is opening the shows. Bob NP: Richard Thompson "Watching the Dark" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:12:20 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: doc is IN--15 for 2 In a message dated 98-06-30 05:56:08 EDT, rhollis@islandnet.com writes: << Joni herself said in an interview that this album could have been called "Songs of a Couch Potato." She and Klein were staying home most nights playing cribbage. >> I'd like to see Joni write a song about cribbage, which is my favorite card game. I play almost every Saturday and some weekday afternoons, usually in 6-way games at the local barangril. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:11:34 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: I swore to myself I wasn't gonna say anything, but... In a message dated 6/30/98 4:15:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << "Our worst fear is not that we are inadequate; our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. >> Marian, This letter belongs in the jmdl Hall Of Fame. Whew, knocked my socks off. I agree with you that many of us *are* afraid of our strengths. How many of us were taught as children that it's not good to show off, to show our abilities at the expense of another? Girls especially know early on that they can't be better than boys (thank god this is changing, but still not fast enough) . I think we take this attitude too far- ie. look at how many of us accept compliments? I, for one, go straight into denial. So, your suggestion at taking a good look at ourselves and celebrating who we are is a good wake up call. I think we can do this AND celebrate the greatness in others- Joni- without having to tear the greatness down. As my mother used to say, everytime you cut down someone else, it's an indication that you're not liking yourself too well. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:18:50 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective I heard some place that Joni has a vocal range of 2 and a 1/2 octaves. I know nothing about choir or singing (Although a novice on just music) so if somebody could put this in laymen's terms, that would be helpful. Out to look for the FTR songbook, _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ Jerry Notaro wrote: Subject: Re: Combining threads :) The Kingpin wrote: >FYI, I have it on good authority that Joni's next album will be an album of >accordian instrumentals dedicated to the NRA. Due her smoke-devastated >declining voice she's opted for the instrumental route and has been seen >around Bel Air gun shops noodling with an VG-8 enhanced accordian to >accomodate her tunings. A cover of "Happiness is a Warm Gun" is rumored. I also heard that Chuck Heston will be doing some pieces in the "spoken word" to make up for the lack of lyrics. Heard they are thinking about reworking The Tea Leaf Prophecy into an accordion~spoken word thing. The Village People will be doing the back up vocals (refer to past threads) and afterwards will be discussing what impact their mothers had in their early years, and how it is now impacting their art. Rave on~ NP: Elvis Costello - Spike Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:48:41 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > Doesn't k.d. Lang use some accordion in her songs? Can't recall the name of > the song I'm thinking of, but it works really well on it. Then again, there's > Billy Joel.... Hey. No trashy talk about accordians. I started on one at 5 and played until 12. Studied with Dick Contino. Still have it up in the attic somewhere, with the diamond chip on the C! The kd song is Miss Chatalaine, an old Lawrence Welk hit. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 06:59:49 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: What Would Joni Think of All This??? There's been some concern about Joni dropping in on the Mother-shame, NRA threads of recent memory ... well let me say that I think she would most likely smile, shake her head, light up another smoke and think to herself, "These people really should get out more ..." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:00:22 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Combining threads :) You naughty, but clever, boy! perhaps she will also do a reworking of the Minelli/PetShopBoys hit, Don't Drop Bombs re naming it without the Don't. colin BH1248@aol.com wrote: > FYI, I have it on good authority that Joni's next album will be an album of > accordian instrumentals dedicated to the NRA. Due her smoke-devastated > declining voice she's opted for the instrumental route and has been seen > around Bel Air gun shops noodling with an VG-8 enhanced accordian to > accomodate her tunings. A cover of "Happiness is a Warm Gun" is rumored. > > Check Soldier of Fortune magazine for tour dates. Archery enthusiast Ted > Nugent is opening the shows. > Bob > NP: Richard Thompson "Watching the Dark" - -- Daily Affirmations: As I let go of my shoulds and feelings of guilt, I can get in touch with my Inner Sociopath. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:00:53 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The doctor is IN--$.10 Joni could have written Magadalene Laundries because she is lucky enough to be able EMPATHISE. She odesn't have to have experienced it. Empathy is being able to put yourself in someone elses shoes to an extent. It is an ability people have who are not blocked off from their own feelings. If one has experienced real grief and has learned thru it, the abiltiy to empathise is there. To be able to empathise is truly a good thing-it enables one to hear and feel rather than ignore and or blame the victim(which is only another way of not feeling your own stuff-a reason we prefer people to grieve 'with dignity'-so we don't have to feel what we fear). So rather than having experienced everything she writed about, I think Joni has this gift of empathy. colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:24:44 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Combining threads :) Joni must be truly honoured to have such consummate artistes as The Village People agree to work with her. This really means she has arrived. colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:00:14 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: NJC NRA Paul wrote: >Apparently, Scott, many people think it does have a place on the JMDL. I'm with Scott on this - I suggest those interested take it off-list. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:14:06 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Magdalen Laundry - --0__=TLSBYBy6enAWp6JhfZxtXVze1Nby8QfHjlEqCKOgBfuhVxE5Y2MfKLU1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Here are words to a song i've been meaning to post for some time. yes deb, the spelling is correct in this case! hmmm, i guess J. Mulhern, the writer of this song knew Joni. how else would they have written such an intimate account of her guilt/shame/childhood/parental relationship/addictions. and stupid me! i thought Joni's song about this historical tragedy and this song as well were artists interpretations of this specific event. ... Sherrie Magdalen Laundry for seventeen years I - --0__=TLSBYBy6enAWp6JhfZxtXVze1Nby8QfHjlEqCKOgBfuhVxE5Y2MfKLU1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ?ve been scrubbing this washboard ever since the fellows started in after me my mother pour soul didn?t know what to do the canon said child there?s a place for you and I?m serving my time at the Magdalen Laundry I?m towing the line at the Magdalen Laundry There?s girls from the country, girls from the town their bony white elbows going up and down the reverend mother she glides through the place a tight little smile on the side of her face she?s running the show at the Magdalen Laundry she?s got no place to go but the Magdalen Laundry woe lord won?t you let, don?t you let me wash away the stain woe lord won?t you let me wash away the stain washing out the linens, cassocks and stoles we?re scrubbing long johns for the holy joes but we know where they?ve been when they?re not saving souls the red wine spilt the smooth hand pours we?re squeezing it out at the Magdalen Laundry we?re scrubbing it out at the Magdalen Laundry woe lord won?t you let, don?t you let me wash away the stain woe lord won?t you let me wash away the stain Sunday afternoon and the lord has rest it?s off to the prom watch the waves roll by we?re chewing on our taffy hear the seagulls squack there go the Maggies, the children talk through our faces they stare at the Magdalen Laundry in our eyes see the glare of the Magdalen Laundry woe lord won?t you let, don?t you let me wash away the stain woe lord won?t you let me wash away the stain - --J. Mulhern/Bardis Music from ?Live in Galway? by Mary Coughlan, 1996 Big Cat Records = - --0__=TLSBYBy6enAWp6JhfZxtXVze1Nby8QfHjlEqCKOgBfuhVxE5Y2MfKLU1-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:56:58 -0500 From: Melinda Everett Subject: Re: Why We Choose Between Joni's Different Voices > > One thing I have noticed, though, is that her voice sounds to me a lot > more mature on STAS than on Clouds and LOTC where it sounds almost > girlish. Listen to Marcie and Dawntreader especially. Is this just my > imagination? It just seems odd, since STAS was recorded first. > Marian, I've definitely noticed this--and it is really interesting. On STAS her voice has that same smoothness that she picked up again with C&S. I'm glad you pointed that out, as it has been on my mind ever since this thread started. Take care, Melinda - -- Support the OLGA Blue Treble Clef Campaign! http://www.olga.net/support.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:37:42 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: SJC Banjos & STAS Les wrote: >proud provider of today's minutia and (soon to be shot) closet >banjo-picker. Oh no! People, it sounds like we've lost another one. Who's for direct intervention here? Can this man be saved? And Linda wrote: >There is *a lot* of reverb and effect on her voice on STAS, and the next few >albums didn't have so much. That's probably part of the reason it sounds >different. I always think of that album as "the one recorded in the >bathroom." Somewhere on Les or Wally's sites is an interview in which Joni or David describe the tribulations of those recording sessions. Apparently an engineer's screw-up resulted in the muddy sound. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:01:54 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Joni's Voice At 07:49 PM 6/26/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-26 19:18:49 EDT, EWWTAYLOR@Prodigy.net writes: > ><< Saying Joni sings off-key is like saying Van Gogh paints sloppy. > >> >Vincent's mom says: "VINCENT VAN GOGH, you get right back here and clean up >this mess! There's paint all over the walls and the floor. And WHAT shade of >red paint is THIS? I used to have a post card of Jackson Pollock as a toddler eating spaghetti and there's noodles and sauce all over the place... - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:11:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: NJC Art meets Technology Wow- look who's hit the bigtime!! Julie, can you post the article or the section about the camera? Bill On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Julie Z. Webb wrote: > Im so excited, I want to share this with everyone. As a lot of you > know, my husband and I started a high tech company two years ago to market > a 3 D/volume-measuring camera which my husband invented, Well today our > camera, "The Virtuoso" (www.visint.com) is featured in The New York Times/ > Science Times section in an article titled, "Michelangelo's Heartbreak > Comes to Life in New Light: transforming his Pieta to 80 Gigabytes" Our > 3d camera was the camera chosen by the team of scientists from IBM's TJ > Watson research center in order to explore and capture what the Pieta > looked like before the broken pieces were put back on. > -Julie, up in the clouds of Michelangelo...... > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:25:31 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re:John Winston's rents At 12:05 AM 6/27/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-26 22:10:57 EDT, Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM writes: > ><< Has anyone even THOUGHT about the parents > of Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, Jackson Browne, John Lennon, ,.... > About the only thing I can vaguely recall is Paul's grandfather in > a Hard Day's Night! :) >> > I wonder what Jim Morrison's mom thought of that song, 'The End'. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:23:16 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: The doctor is IN--$.10 In a message dated 6/30/98 2:02:18 AM, Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date) wrote: >I love DED, but it strikes me as being very out of character compared >to her other works. I don't think she is comfortable with intense >social criticism. > >Let us compare, for example, the contemporaneous "Volunteers," >"4 Dead in Ohio" or "The FISH Cheer" with "Fiddle and the Drum." >Her criticism of the Vietnam Era was quite polite and measured, >thank you very much. {That is not a criticism, just a comment.} Not to disparage Ohio, Volunteers, or Fixin' To Die Rag, but Fiddle And The Drum is a vastly more artful and example of social criticism, both in lyric (with its reference to When Johnny Comes Marching Home) and especially in music (that incredibly beautiful a capella melody, as I have written before, is a masterful manipulation of major/minor tonality shifts, which are linked to key words in the lyric). I'm not sure I would describe the difference between "How did you come to trade the fiddle for the drum" and "Gotta revolution, got to revolution," "Four dead in Ohio," and "1-2-3-4, what are we fightin' for?" as "more polite" but, rather, as more poetic, even timeless. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:28:50 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: NJC Art meets Technology At 12:11 PM 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >Julie, can you post the article or the section >about the camera? Sure Bill: http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/063098sci-pieta.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:28:34 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: What Would Joni Think of All This??? Or, rather, "What the fuck are these people talking about?" _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ ) Subject: Re: Joni's voice I heard that Joni sang higher octave ( soprano on Clouds and LOTC because it was the "style at the time" i.e. Fairport Convention, Judy Collins, etc. STAS was in a more natural voice. Joni has stated she was not a natural soprano -whatever that means? I believe I read this or heard it in an interview ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:01:20 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Combining threads :) From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Combining threads :) >The Kingpin wrote: > >>FYI, I have it on good authority that Joni's next album will be an album of >>accordian instrumentals dedicated to the NRA. Due her smoke-devastated >>declining voice she's opted for the instrumental route and has been seen >>around Bel Air gun shops noodling with an VG-8 enhanced accordian to >>accomodate her tunings. A cover of "Happiness is a Warm Gun" is rumored. > >I also heard that Chuck Heston will be doing some pieces in the "spoken >word" to make up for the lack of lyrics. Heard they are thinking about >reworking The Tea Leaf Prophecy into an accordion~spoken word thing. The >Village People will be doing the back up vocals (refer to past threads) and >afterwards >will be discussing what impact their mothers had in their early years, and >how it is now impacting their art. Unfortunately, it appears that Mr. Heston is previously engaged, so Al Pacino has been asked to render the spoken words of The Tea Leaf Prophecy as Tony Montana, his immortal character from "Scarface." Several cities have been added to the tour as a result of Phillip Morris sponsorship. On an uglier note, the Sylvia Plath Appreciation Society will take out a full page ad in this Friday's New York Times, condemning the hero worship of fallen women like Joni. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:08:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: snl censorship (NJC) Last season, Saturday Night Live ran an animated piece (part of the series done by Robert Smigel which includes the Ambiguiously Gay Duo and the Ex-Presidents). This hilarious take-off on Schoolhouse Rock detailed the corporate control of television content through the ownership of the networks. It took jabs at GE/NBC, Westinghouse/CBS, Disney/ABC and the control of content on issues such as nuclear power, the environmnet and corporate crime. It was also funny as hell. When the episode was rerun, the cartoon segment had been removed from the show. Obviously it hit close to home. It makes me speculate that if the film Bulworth ever makes it to network television, it will probably only be a half hour in length. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:10:31 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: MOA Vinyl Hey everyone! I found the Miles of Aisles Vinyl today and I was curious as to how much it's worth (Steve D, Jerry?) I paid 3 bucks for it and it's in really nice condition. _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:30:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: nra-njc As tiresome as a discussion of the nra might be to some jmdlers, I don't think it is fair for anyone to decide whether or not a particular issue should be discussed by others. We are most definitely not "all joni, all the time" here, which is one of the reason I think this place is still fresh and interesting. My opinion, which anyone is welcome to delete is: Heston is a washed-up, right wing homophobe, and the nra should start holding meetings in elementary schools to get in on some of the action that they inspire. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:33:01 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: MOA Vinyl In a message dated 98-06-30 15:11:16 EDT, Harpua@revealed.net writes: << I found the Miles of Aisles Vinyl today and I was curious as to how much it's worth (Steve D, Jerry?) I paid 3 bucks for it and it's in really nice condition. >> According to the guy at the used record store I went to recently, it's worth about 2 bucks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:00:50 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Bea Arthur (njc) At 12:19 AM 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I know, I know! >Right before her show, Golden Girls, Bea had an extensive face lift. >New techniques now available for "turkey neck" weren't invented >at that time. You know what I am talking about...the face of a 40 >year old on the neck and body of a 70 year old...not a pretty sight. > Marsha - You mean Bea had a waddle?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:37:45 -0400 From: Maggie McNally Subject: Re: Myrtle, Mary Grace and cancer-sticks At 12:19 PM 6/29/98 -0700, Al Date wrote: > > >Her father let her wear the Roy Rogers shirt >when she was 10, and be one of the boys. > I'm reading this line and wondering if her mother did not also let her wear this Roy Rogers shirt. Wasn't it a Christmas gift? Do you know some story of her mother demanding she not wear it and her father defending her choice? Just wondering... Maggie P.S. Sorry for this being a wee bit old, but I'm having trouble keeping up. I'm about to start a FT job and wondering what those who work full time do to balance List, life and love :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 18:50:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Jonis Voice/ some perspective >I heard some place that Joni has a vocal range of 2 and a 1/2 octaves. >________________________________________ >Mark Domyancich Mr. Robert Holliston [ of the British Columbia Hollistons] will set the record straight here. In any case, Joni was and is a soprano. In her pre-FTR days, she might have been characterized as a "light" soprano, with possibly a 3-octave range [ I'm going to try to verify this]. During the FTR period her voice acquired a more dramatic dimension, but she still remained a soprano. Why, you can even tell by her "speaking" voice that she's a soprano. For reasons already discussed, her voice has "changed", but that hasn't turned her into an alto. Incidentally, let me add something about high notes and stuff. After my throat surgery about five years ago, partly because of eccentricity and partly because of God knows what, I decided to stop singing as a tenor and started my self-training as "sopranista" [ No! I didn't need to be castrated for this.] Although I can't sing everything a soprano can, I am gradually reaching stratospheric notes. A month ago, I succeeded in reaching Isolde's Liebstod final high note! Marjorie Lawrence, a glorious Australian soprano, once said "High notes? No big deal, it's all a matter of muscles." So anybody with a high register can recover [ reasonably] high notes with some training. Who knows? Maybe Joni will be singing operetta next. WallyK, who's apartment building is shaking because all the tenants are jumping up and down after Argentina's victory over England [ see World Cup thread] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:46:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Re: Myrtle, Mary Grace and cancer-sticks >Maggie wrote: > >P.S. Sorry for this being a wee bit old, but I'm having trouble keeping up. > I'm about to start a FT job and wondering what those who work full time do >to balance List, life and love :-) Maggie, This is how you balance the three - ignore the first two :-) No really, what I did was give up my exercise time in the morning to read the list (and to occasionally respond). Those who saw me at JoniFest can attest to my foregoing the exercise. My fingers are in damn good shape from all the keyboarding, though! Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:52:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. haven't heard; but it can evoke sentiment properly placed. checked tablecloths and candles in chianti bottles! few would know Tommy Gumina, a fine jazz accordionist who played with Buddy DeFranco. and there's my old bandmate Murl Sanders, who has a great jazz & pop sensibility on the ax. Tom Ross The Cormack & Ross Band's new CD 'global jazz songs' album *HORSE of STONE*, made possible by David Crosby, has excerpts and info at http://www.barncard.com/cormack-ross.html Mizazi Recordings Box 542 Middletown, CT 06457 "Sublime. . . fascinating vocal interplay, virtuoso instrumental work and deeply creative songwriting that blends classical Asian styles with contemporary and traditional Western motifs. . . had this actually been released and recognized when it was recorded, today's music might have a wholly different sound." J. Eric Smith, METROLAND On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/30/98 12:24:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rosst@union.edu > writes: > > << for me, exceptions to the generally repellent accordion are Rumanian gypsy > accordion; >> > > Tom, > > Doesn't k.d. Lang use some accordion in her songs? Can't recall the name of > the song I'm thinking of, but it works really well on it. Then again, there's > Billy Joel.... > > Terry > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #232 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?