From: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #231 Reply-To: Sender: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, June 30 1998 Volume 03 : Number 231 IMPORTANT - The JMDL has moved! Post all messages to from this point on. Update your address books! ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. [Kate Tarasenko ] Re: Bea Arthur (njc) [Marsha Doyle ] Re: NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. [Thomas Ross ] NJC - Dirty Laundry [Scott Price ] The doctor is IN--$.10 [Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date)] Re: NJC - Dirty Laundry [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni's voice. ["John Villasana" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:16:31 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. James A. Murray wrote: "Ever see the Far Side cartoon entitled sopmething like "welcome to hell, maestro", which depicts a conductor in hell being introduced to his band by Satan, a band of banjos!" Or the "Far Side" that says in the first panel, "Welcome to Heaven," and it shows angels playing harps, and the second panel says, "Welcome to Hell," and it has poor schlubs playing accordions? Anyone ever attended the National Accordion Convention in San Francisco? I hear it's not to be missed... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:19:35 -0400 From: Marsha Doyle Subject: Re: Bea Arthur (njc) TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/29/98 6:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: > > << That's because she started with a range with Bea Arthur's to begin with. >> > > I've always wondered why she wore a scarf around her neck in every episode of > her show. Anyone know why? Sorry...but if anyone knows, it's someone from this > group. I know, I know! Right before her show, Golden Girls, Bea had an extensive face lift. New techniques now available for "turkey neck" weren't invented at that time. You know what I am talking about...the face of a 40 year old on the neck and body of a 70 year old...not a pretty sight. Marsha, gobble-gobble ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:21:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: NJC: Accordion Shame, con't. guy stops at convenience store with his accordion in the back seat. In the store he realizes he's left the car unlocked! and rushes out - - but it's too late, someone has already thrown another accordion in beside it. Gary Larson is apparently a serious amateur jazz guitarist, hence the many informed music jokes. for me, exceptions to the generally repellent accordion are Rumanian gypsy accordion; and Guy Klucevek, new hipster who sounds like he's learned some South Indian music, among other things. TR On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Kate Tarasenko wrote: > James A. Murray wrote: > "Ever see the Far Side cartoon entitled sopmething like "welcome to > hell, maestro", which depicts a conductor in hell being introduced to > his band by Satan, a band of banjos!" > > Or the "Far Side" that says in the first panel, "Welcome to Heaven," and > it shows angels playing harps, and the second panel says, "Welcome to > Hell," and it has poor schlubs playing accordions? > > Anyone ever attended the National Accordion Convention in San Francisco? > I hear it's not to be missed... > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:39:10 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: NJC - Dirty Laundry At 11:42 PM 6/29/98 -0400, trxschwa wrote: >you're a member. you've announced it on the joni mitchell discussion list. > but you'd rather not discuss it? I'll discuss my membership anytime you wish. I just don't find it appropriate to the Joni list. It's a waste of bandwidth and frankly I don't think many JMDLers care. >you've been paying dues to the nra your 'life-long' Patrick, you *don't* know my situation, so please don't presume that you have all the answers regarding me and my membership in this organization. I resent your insinuation that I am guilty by association of some evil doings. For the record, it's been at least 15 years since I've paid any dues, but previous payments have given me the "life member" status. >so talk... on list. can you really think joni would wish it otherwise? I really don't think Joni gives a shit, if you want my honest opinion. What on earth does the NRA have to do with Joni? Why do you persist in taunting me publicly? I asked you to write privately, and instead you post this challenge to me via the list. I don't understand why you insist on airing this dirty laundry in public. My original post, if you'll re-read it, was about the "anything goes" threads on this list. I added that I was a member of the NRA just to show that I was playing no favorites in regard to NJC. Now, if you want to read into that that I somehow support the detonation of bombs in public places you're way off base. This is the *last* I will write about this matter to the list, and I apologize to all list members for dragging this before you. Patrick, I SAY AGAIN, if you wish to discuss this with me do it privately. It has *no place* on the JMDL. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:46:05 -0700 From: Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date) Subject: The doctor is IN--$.10 Dr. Karen Mc held nothing back: > Did she also say that "many songs (had gone) > unfinished because lyrics might be offensive to mother" thus leading > to Al's interpretation that joni "sanitizes her work"? Um, well, there was at least one song, about a gambler, which went: "In a day or two, I'll be laying you... Odds." She has spoken about having many unfinished songs, so I extrapolate that some others were also sanitized, just by the ...odds. It's like there must be life in other star systems, mathematically. > The Magdelane laundry is a prison, essentially. Joni is not imprisoned. Outwardly, of course not. If she has any part of herself in a psychological prison, which might be described, say, as a feeling of unworthiness or a fear of rejection, it is self-imposed. But who better than Solzhenitsen(?) to write about the Archipelago? An alternative view is that Joni is such a genius that she can write a song like Magdalene Laundries in the first person on nothing more than a newspaper article. While this is certainly a possibility, I think it more likely that she easily relates to the sadness and shame felt by "fallen women," as she has grappled with her mother's shaming her throughout her life, as seen in 1972 in Let the Wind Carry Me, and in Song to Sharon (76?) and in Facelift, and you know there may be more. (I will leave adoption out of it.) > Surely, given her incredible > music and lyrics, her wonderful insights, the fact that she sees today's world > for what it is (that "she fucking gets it and writes about it" (from another > post of someone's)), that she writes so openly of her "hope and despair" in > relationships, about passion, lust and love, leads me to believe she is not, > *in any way* being supervised by her mother's morality. Well, you could be right. She certainly is not DOMINATED by it. I overstated my case if I implied that. > I wonder if the author's own relationship with mom > isn't being projected on to joni?? You'll have to take my word for it, but my mother was _very_ liberal, the original liberated woman. War nurse; teacher; bread-winner. My father was the Victorian moralist of the family. But there is not much doubt that parental influence is a force to be reckoned with, and I doubt that Joni is immune. She may just be romanticizing some pain that's in her head when she writes Magdalene Laundries. > That's my dime-store analysis. Doctors are a dime a dozen around here. :) [snippage] > Not everyone is cut out for monogamy either. Well, Joni is, of course, a "serial monogamist." > I have seen joni as a socio-political > commentator for a long time. DED deals with this almost wholly. I love DED, but it strikes me as being very out of character compared to her other works. I don't think she is comfortable with intense social criticism. Let us compare, for example, the contemporaneous "Volunteers," "4 Dead in Ohio" or "The FISH Cheer" with "Fiddle and the Drum." Her criticism of the Vietnam Era was quite polite and measured, thank you very much. {That is not a criticism, just a comment.} > Please note > the politics in the song Turbulent Indigo. We have a society of "well-bred" > (hear the sarcasm in my voice), well-off art collectors who wouldn't let a man > such as Van Gogh into their homes if he were to come forward today. Who knows > how many great artists are living on the streets, muttering to themselves in > some state of psychosis or despair, filthy for lack of accomodations? She > refers to the Indians over and over, "ripping off Indian land again", Lakota, > the polluted water in Cool Water and if you want a more comprehensive comment > on the politics of "third world countries" listen to Ethiopia - "Your top soil > flys away, We pump our full of poison spray", "I hear the whine of chain saws > hacking rain forests down" hacking, not sawing, not removing, brutal > "hacking". How many of these worthy causes has she actually passionately embraced? It seems to me that she is just chronicling the times, like in Sex Kills. Again, that is a comment; not a criticism. As a chronicler, she is awesome. > Joni is a revolutionary when she sounds the wake up call, "I > picked the morning paper off the floor, it was full of other people's little > wars,...........don't we get bored?" Tax Free- talk about controversial. > Picture mom and dad going to church on Sunday (just imagine, because I don't > know if they do) and friends/neighbors have heard joni's indictment of > organized religion. But then she criticizes Sinead for smashing a picture of the Pope, as an act that would be "too divisive" for Joni. Joni is too diplomatic; too polite for revolution. Revolution is made of strong inciting actions. That's just not Joni. Part of me respects that; part of me wishes that she were more activist. But that's entirely my problem. I have really tried to find a bottom line to my starting this thread, and it may be that I am just uncomfortable worshipping ANY ONE. It seems to be a mysterious facet of human nature for people to raise other humans to god or goddess level. Fan mail runs in the millions of sheets per day. Stalkers haunt the streets of Hollywood. Men like Stallone and Travolta and M Jordan make multi millions of dollars off of fan-worship. Are they worth that much of a multiple over Les or Wally or Julie, or any of us? So, I'm sorry. Whenever I find myself starting to worship someone, I kind of get a "holy shit what am I doing" reaction, and start looking for warts and human imperfections and reasons for me to NOT elevate the statue. I am much more comfortable enjoying the excellent music of Joni Mitchell, than "worshipping" that person. So I am fully back down to zero gods/goddesses in my life. Sorry if I upset the choir. - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:49:43 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Dirty Laundry In a message dated 98-06-30 00:40:09 EDT, sp@olympus.net writes: << This is the *last* I will write about this matter to the list, and I apologize to all list members for dragging this before you. Patrick, I SAY AGAIN, if you wish to discuss this with me do it privately. It has *no place* on the JMDL. >> Apparently, Scott, many people think it does have a place on the JMDL. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:02:16 -0500 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Joni's voice. I don't know of a singer who's age hasn't had an effect on his or her voice. I've noticed that the range tends to decrease, however, I've also noticed an increase in warmth, depth, and a more authoritive tone. A richer tone. This probably is complimented by artistic maturity. Cigarettes seem to add a raspy quality (probably because of tissue injury, and therefore a scarred, uneven surface in the pipes). I personally prefer older voices. Lots of artist have improved with age IMHO. I guess it all comes down to what you do with what you have. My list of great mature voices: Nina Simone, Tony Bennet, Elton John, Geddy Lee, Neil Young, Pete Townsend... the list goes on. Have a Happy Day :-) John Villasana San Antonio TX ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #231 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?