From: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #230 Reply-To: Sender: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, June 29 1998 Volume 03 : Number 230 IMPORTANT - The JMDL has moved! Post all messages to from this point on. Update your address books! ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Myrtle, Mary Grace and cancer-sticks [Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date)] Re: Alcohol Riots at American universities (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Parent songs [Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date)] Re: NJC Kate [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Jonatha Brooke (njc) [Scott Price ] Smoke to remain visible [Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date)] Obscurity and The Gap [Les Irvin ] Re: Obscurity and The Gap ["Don Rowe" ] Fleadh -- in Chicago [Sumiko Keay ] Re: Obscurity and The Gap ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] NJC Kate ["James A. Murray" ] Re: Parent songs [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective [catman ] Re: Joni mother-shame fixation [catman ] Re: NJC Re: NRA Bullshit/NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. [catman ] Joni on Fleadh CD? -- jmdl digest #229 [Sumiko Keay ] Re: Why We Choose Between Joni's Different Voices [catman ] STAS: First recorded or first released? ["Don Rowe" ] Re: NJC Re: NRA Bullshit/NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. [Sue ] Come to the Garden! [Sue ] Re: NJC: Denise Moser [Denisongs@aol.com] NJC Banjos [Steve Dulson ] Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective [Jerry Notaro ] Joni's right to arm bears [Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date)] "Real Singers" [RMuRocks@aol.com] songs about parents - add to the list [trxschwa ] Re: STAS & Joni's voice [Linda Brady ] Joni on VH1 [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective [catman ] Re: Joni's right to arm bears [catman ] nra (vljc) [trxschwa ] Bill's response to the "shame fixation" [Kate Tarasenko ] NJC: Shame fixation: The Accordion [Kate Tarasenko ] To all interested Labor Day Party-Go-ers: (NJC) [Ashara@aol.com] RE: Obscurity and The Gap ["Wally Kairuz" ] Bea Arthur (njc) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: NRA Bullshit/NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. [Marsha Doyle ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:19:29 -0700 From: Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date) Subject: Myrtle, Mary Grace and cancer-sticks >>Can you imagine if BOTH of her parents were rigid guilt-trippers? Mary Grace says: >I think that this does Joni's mother a disservice. [followed by much wisdom gained from personal experience.] Thanks for the balanced perspective, MG. I have no response except that whatever scary changes Myrtle went thru, so did her husband--and he was able to not only accept Joni as a precocious child, but also as an independent adult, and to encourage her. I think we should all be EXTREMELY thankful for that. Her father let her wear the Roy Rogers shirt when she was 10, and be one of the boys. She has preferred the company of men ever since--and hacked out a place in the music business, which was dominated by men. So, whatever guilt Myrtle may have laid on her, Joni was able to overcome it, at least outwardly; ie, by accomplishment. And, maybe, as Joni has said, the struggle improved the art. So, that leaves me with nothing further to say. I came here with no agenda, just an aching head. You also said, > Not being able to achieve sobriety from a chemical substance is more a > testiment to the incredible, addictive nature of the drug itself, not > someone's character strength or personal fortitude or fulfillment. I'm glad you said that, because after I mentioned the cigarette addiction, I felt like it was a cheap shot. On the other hand, it IS generally a lot easier for someone to quit if they do not have a head full of unresolved "issues." But, I hereby retract any insinuations that may have come with the addiction- assertion. Maybe she just likes those damn things. I thank you Mary Grace for disagreeing with me without getting angry! We must all now get back to crunching our data and lurking the list. - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:23:27 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Alcohol Riots at American universities (NJC) In a message dated 98-06-29 11:31:27 EDT, whuehn@stud.uni-goettingen.de writes: << Which leads me to the conclusion, that the real problem is not underage drinking, but rather failure to educate kids to behave responsibly about alcohol and about drugs in general. And the legal age and the tough approach on alcohol is probably making things only worse, because it suggests to society that "the problem is being taken care of " Which is not really the case. It's not the case here either, BTW, but things definitely aren't worse than in the U.S. -- which they should be if one thought a high legal age for drinking was an effective way to prevent alcohol abuse. >> The real problem, Winfried, is not alcohol abuse, though that is a problem. The real problem is drunken driving by teenagers, who haven't yet learned how to control their drinking or stay away from the wheel. Many states that had lowered the drinkking age to 18 or 19 in the '70s, (I turned 18 in 1972, the year 18-year-olds were given the right to vote, and turned 19 in 1973 when the U.S. stopped the draft and when Illinois lowered the drinking age for beer and wine to 19, so I guess I was well-timed) raised them back up to 21 in the late '80s or more recently to try to reduce the number of eaths cause by drunken teenage drivers. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:26:38 -0700 From: Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date) Subject: Parent songs > The following come to mind off the top of my head: > Jackson Browne - Daddy's Song > Carly Simon - The Way I've Always Heard It Should Be > Carly Simon - Hello Big Man > Carly Simon - Like A River > Madonna- Papa Don't Preach > Cat Stevens - Father and Son > Paul Simon - Loves Me Like A Rock OK, so Carly Simon is the only other artist in history who has written more than once about her folks. And look at all the HUGE artists who never mentioned a word! But that is pretty good memory for the top of your head, Bill! - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:27:03 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Kate In a message dated 98-06-29 12:38:23 EDT, steve@psitech.com writes: << Oh God! Next we'll be allowing banjo players and bagpipers on the list! Be afraid, be very afraid! >> Arre they the musical equivalent of mimes and puppeteers? Come the revolution, the first people dragged out into the street and shot will be the mimes and puppeteers. And now we can add the banjoists and bagpipers to the list! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:34:34 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Jonatha Brooke (njc) At 02:36 PM 6/29/98 EDT, TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: >It's been a while, but someone on this list raved about Jonatha, Rave, rave, rave!! Formerly performing with Jennifer Kimball and known as "The Story," Jonatha Brooke struck out on her own a couple of years ago and has released two solo albums, "Plumb," and "10 Cent Wings." A third album is rumored for a fall 1998 release. Her use of open tunings, a unique vocal style, her honest lyrics, and blends of jazz, folk, rock and pop sounds combine to make wonderful music. She has cited Joni as a major influence, and when she played in Seattle earlier this year she played a few bars of "A Case of You" for the audience. Scott, anxiously waiting for Jonatha to perform July 3.... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:40:10 -0700 From: Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date) Subject: Smoke to remain visible I couldn't help LOL when I read that Joni smokes to stay grounded, so she doesn't become completely invisible in this life. I am shamed to admit that I then pictured a pair of blackened lungs alone on stage, dancing around, expertly exhaling beautiful vocals into a microphone. I personally don't think her voice has lost much at all from smoking. It just sickens me to thing of all the poisons the tobacco industry sticks in there. Maybe she needs herbal tobacco... - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:51:10 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Obscurity and The Gap Joniphiles - I just took a stroll through the battlefield that is the mall and heard "Conversation" piped though the PA system. I'm wondering if this qualifies for the coveted "Most Obscure Joni Song Heard In A Mall" award? Les - proud provider of today's minutia and (soon to be shot) closet banjo-picker. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:59:09 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Obscurity and The Gap I just took a stroll through the battlefield that is the mall and heard >"Conversation" piped though the PA system. I'm wondering if this qualifies >for the coveted "Most Obscure Joni Song Heard In A Mall" award? > Wins my vote. Close as I can come was hearing "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" in a little coffee shop in my neighborhood, but I think they've got one of those 100-disc cd changers providing their music, so it kind of doesn't count ... though I will say it's the first time I'd ever heard that song outside of my own house or car! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:59:11 -0500 From: Sumiko Keay Subject: Fleadh -- in Chicago I thought I'd send a review since (apparently) no one has yet. . . The three main people I wanted to see at the Fleadh were Billy Bragg, Wilco and Sinead O'Connor. I went with six other people (in three cars) and we arrived late enough that we missed the earliest acts. We had paid for the 'vip' tickets so we wanted to know where the tent was and what that got us. We were hoping for a program! We got a place away from the crowds, water and clean toilets. This was actually worthwhile!!! It was 90+ degrees and guess what? Arlington International Racetrack's infield is largely treeless! -- So 90+ and no shade. I thought overall that the sound was good, the music was good but there should have been more food-lines, more places for people to buy water and other non-alcoholic beverages and some sort of program that was not $10.00! I mean sure it was nice but last year at Lilith we got a postcard with the schedule for each stage -- how difficult is it to do that? (Also, if you were a vegetarian you would have been hard-pressed to find something to eat.) Saw Paul Brady (part of his set), most of Mary Black's set -- all of Wilco and then we trekked back to stage two (another problem -- the main stage was too far away from stages 2 and 3) to get in place for Billy. Somewhere along the way I lost my people -- so I went into the tent saw part of Altan, then Richard Thompson and Billy Bragg. I'd never seen either Altan or Richard Thompson before & Altan was okay but Richard Thompson was really great. Billy was great too - - -and he played three of his own songs but most of the music was from his new cd with Wilco -- which is comprised of songs that he and Wilco wrote the music for lyrics that were written by Woody Guthrie. Did that make sense? I really enjoyed hearing them and last Tuesday I bought the album -- really good. Not a Billy Bragg album -- but lots of fun. Afterwards I emerged from the tent feeling rather dazed -- its the heat, the crowd etc. (Between sets somebody fainted and had to be pulled out of the crowd -- there was a moment there when I thought I might do the same.) And lo! and behold! there were my friends right outside the tent. We decided to meet back at the vip area before Sinead and decide what to do next. During the interim I saw a bit of Dar Williams set (3rd stage) which sounded very nice -- but I discovered that there was a cd tent so I went off to explore. Came back with some promo stuff and my friends went off to do the same. (Scoffed up a nice promo single of California Stars -- Wilco and Billy Bragg & a tin whistle -- promo for new Chieftains cd.) By now it was starting to feel eveningish -- we walked back to the vip area met the rest of the group, listened to the rest of Tracy Chapman's set -- extended jam on 'Give Me One Reason' and then three of us went to hear Sinead from closer in. I saw her in Chicago last summer and it was definitely one of the most intense shows I've ever seen! Here she seemed a bit more relaxed on the one hand and yet wailed more on the other. Probably an adaptation to the much larger venue. I was really impressed that between then and now she's re-arranged quite a few of the songs she's doing. Of course, this time around she didn't have her back-up singers (the Screaming Orphans) and she did have the addition of Davy Spillane on low pipe. (Chicago was his last date on her tour though.) For me, Sinead should have been the closer & I think alot of people left after her set. We went back to the other end for Shane MacGowan and the Popes. I just read a review of the San Diego show that said he was completely incoherent and a number of reviews of NY said that he could barely stand but although I'm sure he'd been drinking much of the day in Chicago at least he sounded coherent and actually ennunciated fairly clearly. His band (the Popes) are really tight -- very impressive -- Arlington Hgts' curfew cut their set short but It was a really great day. If only we hadn't got lost on the way home. . . Ciao, Sumiko ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:07:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Obscurity and The Gap Les, Conversation, obscure? Heresy. Paprika Plains. Now there's an obscure title! Jerry On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Les Irvin wrote: > Joniphiles - > I just took a stroll through the battlefield that is the mall and heard > "Conversation" piped though the PA system. I'm wondering if this qualifies > for the coveted "Most Obscure Joni Song Heard In A Mall" award? > Les - proud provider of today's minutia and (soon to be shot) closet > banjo-picker. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:04:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective I think a number have factors have contributed to the changes in Joni's voice and several have been mentioned here. It's too simplistic to attribute it all to her smoking habit. A friend trained in opera once told me (putting up the flame shield) that most opera singers smoke (or at least used to) to deliberately add nuance and range to their voices. Someone mentioned hormonal changes - I read awhile ago that these can indeed greatly alter some (but not all) female voices over time. I've also wondered if Joni may have strained her voice in the early days when she was doing all those amazing things with it and that this may have resulted in some impairment or injury over time. Another factor is simply that you have to use it or you lose it. If you don't consistently keep up with your vocal exercises, you will lose ability to keep in top form - just like an athelete. Joni was far more active (and therefore, more practiced) in performing live in the 60s and 70s than she was in the 80s and the 90s. When I heard her at Stormy Weather, I detected a weakness in her voice that I'd hoped was the result of being out of practice and not permanent injury. Happily, when I heard her 6 weeks later at the concerts, I felt her voice was 100% stronger (even in spite of being beset by cold and allergies) and thought this had to be the result of some serious vocal homework and the benefit of rehearsal and actual performing. I even detected more improvement just a week later at the tapings. So by the time she gets to Woodstock she may be flawless! I do think, as some others have expressed, that her voice found it's apex in the middle period - FTR, C&S & MOA. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:06:09 -0700 From: "James A. Murray" Subject: NJC Kate >>I can noodle out "Happy Birthday" on my accordion > >Oh God! Next we'll be allowing banjo players and bagpipers >on the list! Be afraid, be very afraid! > >(Just KIDDING - welcome, Kate!) Ever see the Far Side cartoon entitled sopmething lik "welcome to hell, maestro", which depicts a conductor in hell being introduced to his band by Satan, a band of banjos! jimbo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:14:29 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Parent songs In a message dated 98-06-29 15:30:29 EDT, Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM writes: << OK, so Carly Simon is the only other artist in history who has written more than once about her folks. >> Not true, In addition to Judy Collins' "Secret Garden" she wrote "My Father." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Kakki wrote: > to her smoking habit. A friend trained in opera once told me (putting up the > flame shield) that most opera singers smoke (or at least used to) to > deliberately add nuance and range to their voices. Someone mentioned hormonal Caruso smoked 2 packs of Camels a day, then spent an hour swabbing his throat before every performance! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:39:45 +0200 From: Marian Russell Subject: Re: Why We Choose Between Joni's Different Voices On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 07:36:11 PDT Don Rowe wrote:<< As a substitution player in the discussion of Joni's<< early vs. middle vs. late voice -- I was thinking over << the weekend -- doesn't the first of her albums we << fell in love make our minds up for us? I can't decide! I love all of Joni's voices from the beginning until now. She has always sung with heart, and this is what does it for me! I like how her voice has changed over the years but I can't judge it as good or bad in relation to the beginning. It's all her and I love her! It's even hard for me to decide which album I like the best because it kind of depends on how I'm feeling in the moment. One thing I have noticed, though, is that her voice sounds to me a lot more mature on STAS than on Clouds and LOTC where it sounds almost girlish. Listen to Marcie and Dawntreader especially. Is this just my imagination? It just seems odd, since STAS was recorded first. Marian Vienna http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/4293 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:39:01 -0700 From: Dan Medill Subject: Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective Linda Brady wrote: > But the fags *have* contributed to the changing of her voice. Again, *Not > that there's > anything wrong with that!!!* > Hey ! I had nothing to do with her voice changing. Happy Pride everyone:) cul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:45:20 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Why We Choose Between Joni's Different Voices Marian writes ... One thing I have noticed, though, is that her voice sounds to me a lot more mature on STAS than on Clouds and LOTC where it sounds almost girlish. Listen to Marcie and Dawntreader especially. Is this just my imagination? It just seems odd, since STAS was recorded first. No I don't think it's your imagination at all ... in fact, I think this is one of the good earlier examples of Joni manipulating her voice to fit her songs ... and hats off to you for "Joni of moment/Joni for my mood of the day" observation ... few other artists in my collection can fit so nicely whatever it is I'm feeling in a given moment. And yes all, that includes a bunch of material off of recently maligned "Dog Eat Dog", "Chalkmark in a Rainstorm" and even "Mingus" So there! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:43:12 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: NJC Re: NRA Bullshit/NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. Bounced Message wrote: > Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:43:03 -0700 > From: Scott Price > > > Now, what I'm trying to figure out is what the NRA has to do with "the > life, art, music, and times of Joni Mitchell." Can anyone find degrees of > separation here? :-) > > Scott, NRA Life Member Never you mind, fella, you just git them hands in the air 'n back up ! :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:53:58 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: Why We Choose Between Joni's Different Voices I have to agree with Marian on how Joni's voice is almost girly on Clouds and Ladies of the Canyon. It's like she went back in time when she recorded Clouds or LOTC; listen to the TapeTrees from the Second Fret, and how she says, "...George Hamilton the Fourth." Really deep. I really don't care for Joni's high voice, or as she says, "on helium." Or listen to her sing Sunny Sunday or Turbulent Indigo (The way she sings/says, He'd drag them through Turbulent Indigo." She really presses on the back of her throat for the "Turb.") P.S. Our streetlights are on at 3:51 PM right now-look at your local weather station and the monsoon rain over the Midwest. (Terry, any bad weather up there?) _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:01:31 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Smoke to remain visible Al Date wrote: > I personally don't think her voice has lost much at all > from smoking. It just sickens me to thing of all the poisons > the tobacco industry sticks in there. Not just tobacco- just think of all the shit in out food, our water and our air!!! We have no choice about consuming those. Even the earth itself is irrevocably damaged due to the exploding of nuclear bombs. Money will always come first. colin - -- Daily Affirmation: I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those censorious, self-righteous people around me. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:01:43 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective Carly's voice today at 52, is no different from her voice of 30 yrs ago. Perhaps a little richer. Her voice back then was amazing for someone so young. She doesn't smoke-now she has breast cancer anyhow. colin Gerald Notaro (LIB) wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Kakki wrote: > > > to her smoking habit. A friend trained in opera once told me (putting up the > > flame shield) that most opera singers smoke (or at least used to) to > > deliberately add nuance and range to their voices. Someone mentioned hormonal > > Caruso smoked 2 packs of Camels a day, then spent an hour swabbing his > throat before every performance! > > Jerry - -- Daily Affirmation: I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those censorious, self-righteous people around me. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:00:56 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni mother-shame fixation Sinead O'Conner-Fire On Babylon Spice Girls-Mama(;-0) colin JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > I was put in mind of: > > Marvin Gaye - What's Goin On > Roger Waters - Mother > Freddy Mercury - Bohemian Rhapsody > > -Julius > > bdolling writes: > > << Anyway, it is not usually the particular parents who are interesting, but > the relationship and feelings between the parent and child. The following > come to mind off the top of my head: > > Jackson Browne - Daddy's Song > Carly Simon - The Way I've Always Heard It Should Be > Carly Simon - Hello Big Man > Carly Simon - Like A River > Madonna- Papa Don't Preach > Cat Stevens - Father and Son > Paul Simon - Loves Me Like A Rock > > -Bill >> - -- Daily Affirmation: I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those censorious, self-righteous people around me. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:01:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Re: NRA Bullshit/NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. Bounced Message wrote: > Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:43:03 -0700 > From: Scott Price > > At 04:03 AM 6/28/98 GMT, Kenny Grant wrote: > >There are no unacceptable topics on this list, > > I respectfully disagree with this statement. And I refer to the "rules" of > the list which are sent to each person when they initially subsc.ribe: > > "Welcome to the Joni Mitchell Discussion List - commonly called the JMDL. > You are now an official "Jimdle" - a member of the unmoderated discussion > of anything and everything related to the life, art, music, and times of > Joni Mitchell." > > Now, what I'm trying to figure out is what the NRA has to do with "the > life, art, music, and times of Joni Mitchell." Can anyone find degrees of > separation here? :-) It comes under the 'times' part!!! > > > Scott, NRA Life Member - -- Daily Affirmation: I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those censorious, self-righteous people around me. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:01:24 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Parent songs Al Date wrote: > > The following come to mind off the top of my head: > > > Jackson Browne - Daddy's Song > > Carly Simon - The Way I've Always Heard It Should Be > > Carly Simon - Hello Big Man > > Carly Simon - Like A River > > Madonna- Papa Don't Preach > > Cat Stevens - Father and Son > > Paul Simon - Loves Me Like A Rock > > OK, so Carly Simon is the only other artist in history > who has written more than once about her folks. > > And look at all the HUGE artists who never mentioned a word! > > But that is pretty good memory for the top of your head, Bill! > > --Al Date Carly has written about many of her rellies. That's The Way I've Always Heard It Should be is the only one to mention the strife. Like A River(beautiful) is about her mother's death, Hello Big Man is about the romance of her parents. Ther have been other references as well.colin - -- Daily Affirmation: I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those censorious, self-righteous people around me. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:04:32 -0500 From: Sumiko Keay Subject: Joni on Fleadh CD? -- jmdl digest #229 Its a Chieftains cd -- supposed to be out later this year I believe with Joni, Sinead, Joan Osborn among others. Sumiko ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:06:07 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC: Denise Moser I received a copy of Bright Side Up by Denise Moser(she is on this list). I really enjoy women with guitars and therefore very much enjoy this album. Not being a muscian or a fancy writer, I won't comment on those aspects! Suffice to say, I layed down with my phones on and thoroughly enjoyed it. bw colin you can put that cheque in the post now Denise! - -- Daily Affirmation: I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those censorious, self-righteous people around me. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:08:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Why We Choose Between Joni's Different Voices Joni's voice on STAS is much more like her later voice, from HOSL onwards. It isn't your imagination! colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:15:04 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective Dan Medill wrote: > Linda Brady wrote: > > > But the fags *have* contributed to the changing of her voice. Again, *Not > > that there's > > anything wrong with that!!!* > > > > Hey ! I had nothing to do with her voice changing. LOL! > > > Happy Pride everyone:) Although Pride is still taking place, the big do after wards has been poststoned. Seems they spent too much money on fags.colin Daily Affirmation: As I learn to trust the universe, I no longer need to carry a gun. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:21:19 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: STAS: First recorded or first released? I'll plead ignorance and throw myself on the mercy of the list ... is it possible that STAS was actually recorded "after" material on Clouds and Ladies of the Canyon, but "released" first. I ask because I'm aware of many artists whose 2nd recording effort gets released as the "1st album", and then once/if it sells the 1st recording effort will become the "2nd album." Could this clear up the vocal discussions some of us have been having? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:34:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Re: NJC Re: NRA Bullshit/NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. Hi Scott and listers, In response to the NRA thread and its validity on the list I offer the following: ______________________________________________________________________________ >At 04:03 AM 6/28/98 GMT, Kenny Grant wrote: >>There are no unacceptable topics on this list, ______________________________________________________________________________ >I respectfully disagree with this statement. And I refer to the "rules" of >the list which are sent to each person when they initially subsc.ribe: > >"Welcome to the Joni Mitchell Discussion List - commonly called the JMDL. >You are now an official "Jimdle" - a member of the unmoderated discussion >of anything and everything related to the life, art, music, and times of >Joni Mitchell." > >Now, what I'm trying to figure out is what the NRA has to do with "the >life, art, music, and times of Joni Mitchell." Can anyone find degrees of >separation here? :-) > >Scott, NRA Life Member ________________________________________________________________________________ Dear Scott, Lyrics from The Tea Leaf Prophecy, a Joni Mitchell song: "Study war no more Lay down your arms" The nice thing about Joni's prolific writing is that no matter the subject there is almost always a lyric to go with it. Sorry! Sue Cameron, Public school teacher who believes that if guns are to remain legal then bullets shouldn't be. Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:35:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Come to the Garden! Hello listers, At the behest of Julie, hostess with the mostess, I am reprinting part of my post to her urging her to come to Bethel on August 15. >I guess the misperception is out there. I think that is why the >promoter's wanted to change the name of the festival to Back to the >Garden. We are even thinking of bringing our daughter. I have talked >with people connected to the event and there is positively no camping or >coolers allowed. They are limiting the crowd through ticket sales, and >the singing events end rather early. It is geared toward the boomer >population and is as kid friendly as the producers can make it. Heck, >they are even having a craft show! Can't see to many head bangers in line >to buy knitted items (unless of course they are crafted to keep your >beverage cold). Julie Z Webb wrote: > And the next time you see me, I know I'll end up asking you to kick >me in >the tush for turning the Garden down. I keep turning and turning and >trying to figure out what to do. Duane's post made a lot of sense. You should reconsider. I made the decision to go, bought the tickets, and found out that the last class of my master's course is August 15. Remember, I have been waiting for 15 years to see Joni. Also know that I have been working very hard to receive this certification. So what's a girl to do? Let me tell you! I e-mailed my instructor, told her my situation, and got excused from the last class! I will have to do the work ahead of time, but who cares! I AM GOING TO SEE JONI! With everything that has happened in the last few months, people that I know meeting Joni, her being aware of our internet community, anything could happen! She could call me up on stage to sing Amelia with her. I know that sounds crazy, but after talking with Kakki and Pearl at your house, then a few weeks later seeing them in a picture with Joni, it just may be possible! I can see the bruise on your tush evaportating now as I talk you into what will be a wonderful experience. With general admission all we have to do is show up early to guarantee a good spot. There will be enough of our community there to make sure that area is available. There will be a fun loving friendly atmosphere, I just know it! END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE ______________________________________________________________________________ So, for others out there, what's your reason for NOT going? East coasters! This is your opportunity! Don't squander it with reasons not to go. That is all of the lecturing I am going to do on the subject. Next will be harrassing e-mails to all you easties and midwesties. Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:00:49 EDT From: Denisongs@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Denise Moser In a message dated 98-06-29 17:11:10 EDT, you write: << I received a copy of Bright Side Up by Denise Moser(she is on this list). I really enjoy women with guitars and therefore very much enjoy this album. Not being a muscian or a fancy writer, I won't comment on those aspects! Suffice to say, I layed down with my phones on and thoroughly enjoyed it. >> Thank you so much Colin. I appreciate your kind words! You brightened my day! Fondly, Denise : ) P. S. Check is in the mail. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:03:50 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: NJC Banjos Marsha wrote: >Well, Dulson, it will be a cold day in hell before I ever >grace you with my Kazoo rendition of "Hejira"! It's your loss... I will try to bear up manfully. And Paul wrote: >Are they (banjo players and bagpipers) the musical equivalent of mimes >and >puppeteers? Yes, pretty much! :) I remember the Great Mime Disaster of '74.... ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:26:30 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective catman wrote: > > Carly's voice today at 52, is no different from her voice of 30 yrs ago. Perhaps a > little richer. That's because she started with a range with Bea Arthur's to begin with. Only kidding, Colin. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:20:34 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Come to the Garden! - GC (Garden Content) only Suze wrote: > That is all of the lecturing I am going to do on the subject. Next will be harrassing e-mails to all you easties and midwesties. Don't forget the Southies, Southwesties, Westies, and Northwesties! I'm flying up for the show from Texas, bringing with me a San Antonio friend, and we're dragging along another friend from California and two more from Philadelphia ... Kate is coming from Colorado ... come on, y'all, from wherever you are! Lori in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:54:51 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: joni's voice > One thing I have noticed, though, is that her voice sounds to me a lot > more mature on STAS than on Clouds and LOTC Marian, I completely agree. Her voice sounds "older" and also more "old-fashioned" on the first album. Maybe there's more vibrato? And that husk-to-clear technique. Whatever the reason, she does sound more youthful later, esp. on LOTC. I've even wondered if Joni made a conscious decision to attempt to sound younger, and thus more hip. And Don makes a good guess: > I'll plead ignorance and throw myself on the mercy of the list ... > is it possible that STAS was actually recorded "after" material on > Clouds and Ladies of the Canyon, but "released" first. It's possible, but it's not the case. Her first album was in fact her first album. She discusses them on various tape trees, so we know for sure. Deb Messling "Without music, life would be an error." --Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:56:50 -0700 From: Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date) Subject: Joni's right to arm bears I really dislike seeing this list spammed with the gun-control debate, but I will at least give the debate some Joni-content. ;) If Joni Mitchell decided that she (or one of her people) needed a gun to protect herself from a stalker, I would think that she HAS THAT RIGHT, just as it is her right to worship or to not worship, to inhale harmful drugs or eat junk-food, to associate with whomever she chooses, to get an abortion, or to put her child up for adoption. It's just another adult human choice. - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:11:07 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: "Real Singers" Of course, there are a lot of real singers, that is, singers who'll make you stop & listen. The first that come to mind (besides Joni)for me are: Sam Cooke Bruce Springsteen Tom Waits Rickie Lee Jones Not because of vocal quality; certainly, more a conviction for the what they're saying. If I start listing the soul singers (Otis Redding, Ray Charles,etc) I'd take up way too much bandwidth. P.S. to Marsha - when you and John get your Hot 'Lanta meet set up. count me in! Bob M. in lonely ol' SC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:55:41 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: songs about parents - add to the list judy collins - my father (especially in this mortal coil's recording, sung BRILLIANTLY by alison limerick.) don, you mentioned: James Taylor -- Mill Worker Eric Clapton -- My Father's Eyes is mill worker the same song bette midler recorded on 'thighs and whispers'? jerry, you might know. a great performance of a great song. come to think of it, the clapton song might be a recording of judy's composition, which is sometimes titled 'my father's eyes' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:29:56 +0100 From: Linda Brady Subject: Re: STAS & Joni's voice I'll add this to the pot regarding Joni's voice on her first album. There is *a lot* of reverb and effect on her voice on STAS, and the next few albums didn't have so much. That's probably part of the reason it sounds different. I always think of that album as "the one recorded in the bathroom." Linda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:34:55 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Joni on VH1 Hey JMDLers I was on vacation for a little while, but before I left, I saw that a few people had posted a message that Joni was going to be on VH1 this past Friday at 8:00 on one of the rock legends episodes. I set my recorder and it wasn't on. Did I miss it, or is it still going to be broadcast? Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:18:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Jonis Voice/ some perspective Jerry Notaro wrote: > catman wrote: > > > > Carly's voice today at 52, is no different from her voice of 30 yrs ago. Perhaps a > > little richer. > > That's because she started with a range with Bea Arthur's to begin with. > Only kidding, Colin. How dare you! You &&%^^$£"" boy! Actually, John who knows about such things, thinks her voice is brill and describes it as an Alto. She certainly can sing low and high. So low I can't sing some of it.But Jerry, you can say what you wish about her, really I don't mind. She gives me goosebumps - that's what counts. Maybe I should send you a 74min comp cd of her so that you always have reference to what a truly good singing voice sounds like!!!!! ;-) luv carly > > > Jerry - -- Daily Affirmations: As I let go of my shoulds and feelings of guilt, I can get in touch with my Inner Sociopath. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:34:45 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni's right to arm bears Al Date wrote: > I really dislike seeing this list spammed with the gun-control debate, > but I will at least give the debate some Joni-content. ;) > > If Joni Mitchell decided that she (or one of her people) > needed a gun to protect herself from a stalker, I would think > that she HAS THAT RIGHT, just as it is her right to worship > or to not worship, to inhale harmful drugs or eat junk-food, > to associate with whomever she chooses, > to get an abortion, or to put her child up for adoption. > > It's just another adult human choice. I feel hypocritical about this. On the one hand i feel that yes adults should be left to live their lives and make their choices without govt interference.I believe drugs should not be illegal-any of them-because of this belief in the right of adults to choose. However, guns kill easily. I know it is people who pull the trigger. It is just so easy with a gun. I know for sure that if I had owned a gun i would have used it, not now, in the past. Either i would be dead or several others would be. Guns are not kept out of the hands of children-hence we get school yard shooting-regulalry. here killings have happened at school-with knives and usually only one death or injury. Those who used knives could well have taken a gun if available with worse results. I don't feel the need for a gun here. I think I would feel that need in the USA. On the one hand I think guns should not be available on the other I see the rights aspect and on the other I see dead children and on the other I see the need for protection.(okay i know I don't have four hands.) So I don't know which is the right thing to do. In an ideal world we wouldn't have them. I guess it also means we should also have the right to make, buy and keep our personal bombs. Wow! Get too close to me, mister, and I'll nuke ya! colin > > > --Al Date - -- Daily Affirmations: As I let go of my shoulds and feelings of guilt, I can get in touch with my Inner Sociopath. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:30:55 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: nra (vljc) look, i don't want to get into a debate about gun-control; they're famous for being unpleasant. as a matter of fact... spam has a very specific internet meaning, usually implying blind mass emailing of advertising. my one message on this was not spam. you owe me an apology. one question i will leave in the air for you and scott. taggants? did you know about this? do you defend the nra's position? does the right to bear arms include two-ton fertilizer bombs? patrick i'll leave it to someone else to comment on the obscenity of enlisting joni in your pro-gun viewpoint ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:14:37 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: Bill's response to the "shame fixation" Bill Dollinger wrote: "I don't value the songs for what they mean to Joni, but how they relate to my own experiences in life." HEAR, HEAR!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 19:12:05 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: nra (vljc) At 09:30 PM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >look, i don't want to get into a debate about gun-control; >one question i will leave in the air for you and scott. taggants? >did you know about this? do you defend the nra's position? does the right >to bear arms include two-ton fertilizer bombs? Patrick: Jeez, I feel like maybe *I* need to demand an apology. I *never* defended the NRA, only stated that I *was* a member. Also, I *really* don't want to get in a gun-control debate, especially on the JMDL. It's totally inappropriate in this forum. If you have other issues with me please take them up privately. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:33:36 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: NJC: Shame fixation: The Accordion Steve Dulson wrote: > > Kate Tarasenko wrote: > > >I can noodle out "Happy Birthday" on my accordion > > Oh God! Next we'll be allowing banjo players and bagpipers > on the list! Be afraid, be very afraid! > > (Just KIDDING - welcome, Kate!) Then, Marsha Doyle wrote: "Well, Dulson, it will be a cold day in hell before I ever grace you with my Kazoo rendition of "Hejira"! It's your loss..." I smell a new tribute tape tree! I even have the name: "Grace and Havoc"! Yessss! ("Turbulent Indigo" CAN be done with an oom-pah beat!) Kate in Colorado ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:30:20 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: To all interested Labor Day Party-Go-ers: (NJC) Hi everyone, Just a quick update: When filling out the party questionaire, please note: On question #5, (I am afraid/allergic to dogs, cats, snakes, goldfish?), please disregard the question about the goldfish. Unfortunately, he/she is no longer living with us. He/she has gone to the big fishbowl in the sky. Don't have a clue what I am talking about? Send a blank message to: info-jonifestne@jmdl.com Hugs, Ashara {who was wondering if "The Fishbowl" by Joni Mitchell would be a proper eulogy for "Goldie"} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:02:50 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Obscurity and The Gap Well, brace yourselves for this: I've heard WILLIE[!!!!] twice at the grocery store! And this is Buenos Aires, Argentina, South America, the tenth world. WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:19:22 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Bea Arthur (njc) In a message dated 6/29/98 6:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << That's because she started with a range with Bea Arthur's to begin with. >> I've always wondered why she wore a scarf around her neck in every episode of her show. Anyone know why? Sorry...but if anyone knows, it's someone from this group. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:41:48 -0400 From: Marsha Doyle Subject: Re: NJC Re: NRA Bullshit/NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. Sue wrote: > Hi Scott and listers, > > >I respectfully disagree with this statement. And I refer to the "rules" of > >Now, what I'm trying to figure out is what the NRA has to do with "the > >life, art, music, and times of Joni Mitchell." Can anyone find degrees of > >separation here? :-) > Lyrics from The Tea Leaf Prophecy, a Joni Mitchell song: > > "Study war no more > Lay down your arms" > > The nice thing about Joni's prolific writing is that no matter the subject > there is almost always a lyric to go with it. Sorry! And of course there's: "They bicker on the rifle range" from Last Chance Lost. Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:42:57 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: nra (vljc) um, scott, you're a member. you've announced it on the joni mitchell discussion list. but you'd rather not discuss it? you've been paying dues to the nra your 'life-long' but you "never defended" the nra and you think it inappropriate to comment on an nra position. and you've carefully reserved your opinion on commercial explosive identifying taggants. and you've no comment on the fact the nra has taken your life-long dues to lobby against and defeat legislation regarding taggants. the issue, which i didn't raise, is 'what arms does the nra consider protected under the 2nd?' the moment you pay your dues, you are completely implicated in that issue, and don't you dare to presume otherwise. so talk... on list. can you really think joni would wish it otherwise? ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #230 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?