From: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #227 Reply-To: Sender: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Sunday, June 28 1998 Volume 03 : Number 227 IMPORTANT - The JMDL has moved! Post all messages to from this point on. Update your address books! ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Lost Verse conversation [simon@icu.com] Miles Of Aisles (Tour) [simon@icu.com] Joni's motives, choice.MYOB [Diana Duncan ] Re: Hejira -- Refuge of the Roads in particular [Bounced Message ] Woodstock meet and greet mailing list [Les Irvin ] Re: Joni's motives, choice.MYOB [RickieLee1@aol.com] Portable Friends (long WQC) [WombQueen@aol.com] My hell with transcribers ["Mark Domyancich" ] NJC- NRA [MP123A321@aol.com] Re: My hell with transcribers [TerryM2442@aol.com] RE: NRA Bullsh*t (NJC) [trxschwa ] Re: Joni's motives, choice.MYOB [briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian)] guitar question [Denisongs@aol.com] Fwd: NRA Bullsh*t (NJC)/ NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. [MDESTE1@aol.com] Al date ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Americana abroad [Thomas Ross ] Joni before & after cigarettes [Anne Madden ] Re: Fwd: NRA Bullsh*t (NJC)/ NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. [kg@ibm.net (Kenny ] Otis and Marlena/ NRA [HEJIRA27@webtv.net (Gray Douglas)] The silence is so full of sounds? [DKasc13293@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:16:21 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Lost Verse conversation Denise wrote ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >All this lost verse talk reminded me of this: A friend used to have a >book of songs that included some of Joni's. It is very old and I don't >remember the name of it, but I do remember that it included an extra verse >of "Converstion". I don't think it adds to the song, and she was probably >right to edit it out. >__________________________________________________________________________ Denise, actually "Conversation" as performed by Joni _before_ it was recorded contained 4-verses. the version on LOTC contains 2. the 4-verse version was included on TapeTree #3, recorded 10-12-67, almost 3-yrs. before LOTC. - ------- simon - ------- * Remember, if you don't stand for something ... you'll go for anything. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:16:29 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Miles Of Aisles (Tour) Mark Domyancich wrote ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >I think it's also weird that that Joni didn't end her show with The Last >Time I Saw Richard. She then went on to play Jericho and Love or Money. >__________________________________________________________________________ although 'Miles Of Aisles' ends with "Jericho" and "Love Or Money", this isn't when they were sung during the concerts. usually "The Last Time I Saw Richard" _when performed_ was just before "Twisted" which was always the last song. below is the SetList for one of the MOA shows. ___________________________________________________________________ JONI MITCHELL / Universal Amphitheatre / Los Angeles, Ca. / 8-15-74 1. Free Man In Paris 2. You Turn Me On I'm A Radio 3. Big Yellow Taxi 4. Same Situation 5. Rainy Night House 6. Woodstock 7. This Flight Tonight 8. People's Parties 9. All I Want 10. Woman Of Heart and Mind 11. A Case Of You 12. Circle Game 13. Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire 14. For Free 15. Carey 16. Trouble Child 17. Help Me 18. JERICHO * 19. LOVE OR MONEY * 20. Both Sides, Now 21. Raised On Robbery 22. Barangrill 23. The Last Time I Saw Richard 24. Twisted - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:26:17 -0500 From: Diana Duncan Subject: Joni's motives, choice.MYOB I have been watching this thread tangle up since Al threw it out there. It has made me very uncomfortable. I don't believe that any of us know Joni well enough to understand her motives. Hell, I've lived with my daughter for most of 23 years and I still don't understand all her motives. The songs JM writes, which we all have found out, can be taken very many different ways. She even has said it's not important what they mean to her but what they mean to us. The few interviews she's given can not possibly give anyone enough information to second guess her. I believe in a woman's right of reproductive choice. This means it's a *very* personal decision that should be kept personal. In fact I have stories of my own about such personal choices and they will remain personal. I believe in not judging someone untill you've walked in their shoes.. but it goes even further than that. Actually, I don't think Joni's relationship with her mother is any of our f*king business. I hope this doesn't mean I need to leave the list. I think I can be a fan of JM by loving how her music touches me and realizing what a great artist she is. But as to her personal life....I remember what *my* mother used to say MYOB. Diana ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:13:54 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Hejira -- Refuge of the Roads in particular Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:57:55 +0200 From: "winfried hühn" I must admit that I've treated "Refuge Of The Roads" always a bit stepmotherly. I used to listen to Hejira mostly in my car stereo, and, quite ironically, that song somehow didn't make it on the tape! (Yes, I'm a cruel person, at times ;-)) The recent Hejira thread prompted me to listen to the whole album more often again at home, and *** wow *** what a great song it is! Behind "Blue Motel Room", it might be the most melodical song of the album. I especially like the beginning -- the way Joni's guitar playing starts; gently, almost hesitatingly introducing the background melody, then Jaco's marvelous bass kicking in and Joni beginning to sing. There's not that many instruments involved, but the song still sounds as if it consisted of many different layers. I hope I'm not digging out some long and repeatedly-mentioned point here, but I was wondering if any of you folks also noticed that marvelous thematic change of perspective Joni is introducing in the last verse of the song, which is also the last verse of the entire album: In a highway service station Over the month of June Was a photograph of the earth Taken coming back from the moon And you couldn't see a city On that marbled bowling ball Or a forest or a highway Or me here least of all... In most of the previous songs, including the previous verses of "Refuge", she's radically subjective, looking at everything from an inside perspective. Now, "coming back from the moon", the point of view changes 180 degrees: suddenly, she looks down upon everything from high, high above, where the tiny details aren't visible and therefore do not matter. Is she perhaps also being a bit retrospective here about her own feelings expressed in the previous songs? Like if she wanted to say to herself and her listeners "look, no matter what is bothering us and how serious we think it to be, it's nothing but peanuts seen from a universal point of view"? Winfried, so much appreciating the stimulation coming from these wonderful threads ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:55:44 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: "Blue" Where are You? LOST AND FOUND: Today I resorted all of my cd's, putting them in their proper cases etc. And I found an extra cd of "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter".... however my "Blue" cd is missing!!! Im hoping that someone who brought cd's to Jonifest in Pittsburgh has my "Blue" and I have their "DJRD" cd. Let me know. (Can you believe I haven't listened to Blue since April 18th?!?!?) -JulieZW, who just saw Eddie Murphy in "Dr Doolittle, and it's an adorable movie. Ken Slarty your kids will love the talking guinea pig...it's a scene stealer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:36:03 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Woodstock meet and greet mailing list At 10:37 AM 6/27/98 +0000, Kate Tarasenko wrote: >To Les: Is there any way for us to have A Day in the Garden list-link >like we had for the West Coast tour? Good idea Kate! The mailing list has been set up at . Anyone who wants to join simply needs to send a request to me and I'll add you to the list. From that point on, all mail sent to will be received by all that have signed up. Now we need a list host... Kate? Les The members so far: netgirl@ctos.com LRFye@aol.com HEJIRA27@webtv.net scam@freeway.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:18:17 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's motives, choice.MYOB diana - there are a lot of people, i would say the majority of us who are feeling exactly like you and are very uncomfortable with mr dates pompous, judgemental and condescending opinions about probably THE most difficult and personal choice joni mitchell ever had to make in her life. if there were a way to erase the week that has elapsed since he inflicted it on all of us, i would love to know about it. find something new to pontificate on mr. date. please. - ric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:35:07 EDT From: WombQueen@aol.com Subject: Portable Friends (long WQC) JMDLers-- Today I met Karen Mc at a downtown Denver coffeehouse, and I must say that talking to her was like talking to someone I had known already for years, despite the fact that I had never met her before....the common thread? Joni, of course. Joni, her music, her art, her life--reasons why we're all here on this list, to learn more about her, to debate, to enjoy and appreciate. I moved to Colorado a little over a month ago, leaving all my friends and family on the east coast behind when I left Connecticut, but not regretting it in the least, knowing I'd be back to visit and, eventually, live on the coast again. I came here to live with My Old Man, whom I met on the internet (ironically enough), and while it is a whole different world for an only child who has lived in the same house her entire life, it also feels like I am finally home. Meeting a fellow lister today made me realize that (here's the really sappy part) I hadn't left all my friends behind, since parts of you all are still here in my mailbox....I was telling Roberto that meeting Karen today convinced me that despite the occasional unrest, this list is a congregation of kindred souls, all different, all unique, but all common through our appreciation of Joni. I just wanted to take the time to tell you all how much I appreciate this list, every single one of you out there who's shown the list a little bit of yourselves, whether in debate, relating a Joni experience, or just (like dear Mariana) letting us in for awhile on how life is going in your world....while mostly I am a lurker, I felt the need to come out today and let you know where I stand. Thank you Wally (keep up the recovery!) and Les for bringing us all together, and many thanks to Joni, for sharing her art with us for so long. Yours in Joni dweems, Sentimental Womby ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:47:39 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: My hell with transcribers Hi everyone! I felt there was some need to type up something about the quality of song books. Over the years, or actually, before I got into Joni, there wasn't any problem with purchasing a song book for a band. I was heavily into Led Zeppelin and even though they were around when Joni was, it was not a problem to get one of their song books. One day, I went to a music shop, Griggs, and I found a song book for Led Zeppelin's first 5 albums, everything from Led Zeppelin I to Houses of The Holy, all in complete tab. I snatched it up right away! Now, it is about 3/4 of an inch thick and guess how much it cost me! $25.95! That was hardly anything! Now, if you wanted to get a Joni Mitchell song book, let's say, Blue, you couldn't because it is out of print. Why? Blue came out in June of 1971, 27 years ago. In 1971, Led Zeppelin had The Runes Album out. Could you get a song book for that? Of course! Hell, it may be even at your local music shop right now! Unlike Joni's albums or her more recent song books, you wouldn't have to order them. And it would not only have the guitar tab, it would even have what the drums played! Isn't that the biggest crock of shit or what! OK, there actually was a song book for Blue, but I bet you that it had all the songs in standard tuning! There is only 2 guitar songs on Blue, Little Green in the tuning DGDGBD, with capo IV, and This Flight Tonight, tuning GGDGBD. Let me imagine what the Blue song book would have in it: Possibly no dulcimer songs, maybe the piano songs, and the 2 guitar songs would be in standard tuning. Did the transcribers know about Joni's awesome tunings? I bet they did, because Joni's next album, For The Roses, had the alternate tunings. What about the chords they gave for Blue? They would break your fingers! They may sound like what Joni had, but they weren't close. Now, to tie in with Led Zeppelin: Jimmy Page had alternate tunings, which were noted in their song books, but why not Joni's? Is it because LZ is more popular than Joni? I think that is the main reason. But Joni was very popular back in the day. Don't you think that the transcribers should have given Joni the gold she deserves and transcribed her songs in alternate tunings? You may think that I sound like a hypocrite or I forgot that Joni's still around, believe me, I'm not. I'm well aware she is still popular. Don't you think it is the publishing company's business to transcribe a song as it actually is? Would you put a G chord instead of a Am chord? No, because it doesn't sound right. Now would you transcribe in standard tuning when IN FACT it is actually in an alternate tuning? Why? Ugh, I really can't understand this. I'm probably boring you now. But my point is is that why can't transcribers do it right? What are they paid for? Were they aware of Joni's tunings? If they were, why weren't the songs transcribed as they should be? If they didn't know, I don't have a case against them. But if they didn't know about them, and as they were listening to the album trying to figure out a chord Joni was playing, couldn't they tell the difference between an open 6th string tuned to C than tuned to E? There's an obvious difference there. Could it be because the transcriber wanted to do simple chords? What the hell? Do you call Gm 6/9 an easy chord? Hell no! Why even bother if you aren't going to do it right? I, as well as other Joni guitar fans, would be totally lost if it wasn't for others who figured out Joni's tunings and transcribed the actual song, like our very own Howard Wright who has made an AWESOME contribution to the Joni transcribing community. It's great to see, when I look at Sue's guitar files, that only 1 or 2 songs are not linked to a file. I hope to be the person who transcribes Songs To Aging Children Come, if I only had the album. Well, that's enough bitching for a long time. _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:58:10 EDT From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: NJC- NRA In a post: Paul I. wrote ... >Did anyone else notice the irony in Charlton Heston's statement last week..... Regarding Heston: Did anyone see Comedy Central... Comic Relief where Dennis Miller made reference to Chuck as the guy from that movie "The Eleven Commandments" Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:02:27 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: My hell with transcribers Mark, I agree. I propose that Howard and SueMac write a conclusive JM songbook with all the correct tunings. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:02:22 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: NRA Bullsh*t (NJC) simon wrote, - ------------- One could assume, too, that under a contemporary definition of the word "arms," that right should not be limited to guns, but rather our right to a bazooka, tank or a neutron bomb -- could not be infringed. - -------- and you could possibly think simon was being hyperbolic, that no one could believe that the nra is that evil, but get this: after oklahoma city, the issue of taggants in commercial explosives arose again. taggants would allow tracing of misused explosive material, and hopefully act as a deterrent to those considering using commercial explosives for terrorist acts. ammonium nitrate fertilizer, the material that mcveigh used (two tons of it mixed with 'nitromethane racing fuel'), has long been a candidate for taggants; for its terrorism potential. taggant legislation has been consistently defeated, both before and after ok city, by nra money and rhetoric. they are quite publicly against taggants in any commercial bomb materials. in '95 i thought 'why in the hell does the nra have a position on fertilizer explosive?' now i'm just frightened of these complete loons. patrick, wondering how that metaksa bitch slept at night, after each of this years schoolyard tragedies. np - nothing would be appropriate. ps. i had to do a little research, and god it was unpleasant. but this (prosecutor's opening statement) is worth reading, for the chemistry and more. http://www.freep.com/news/bombtrial/oktrans25.2.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:08:01 -0700 From: briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian) Subject: Re: Joni's motives, choice.MYOB Dear Group, > diana - there are a lot of people, i would say the majority of us who are > feeling exactly like you and are very uncomfortable with mr dates pompous, > judgemental and condescending opinions about probably THE most difficult and > personal choice joni mitchell ever had to make in her life. if there were a > way to erase the week that has elapsed since he inflicted it on all of us, i > would love to know about it. > > find something new to pontificate on mr. date. please. - ric Yikes! "pompous, judgemental and condescending"? I missed all that. I thought Al's postings were thought provoking and at times extremely insightful. He asked some tough questions more than he offered answers, IMO. I like people who ask difficult questions. That's why I liked Al's posts. BTW, that's why I love Joni Mitchell. They make me examine my own life more completely, in the hopes of growing even more and becoming a better person in the process. If Al's posts really disturb you, my suggestion is to not read them. One click of the delete button and *poof* they never existed! Lord knows I do that often enough with some of the stuff that goes through the JMDL. No offense, none taken. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:32:44 EDT From: Denisongs@aol.com Subject: guitar question To the guitar players out there..... Does anyone know how to play "Talk to Me" I would love to have someone teach me. Denise ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:35:10 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Fwd: NRA Bullsh*t (NJC)/ NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_899001311_boundary Content-ID: <0_899001311@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I hate to be a party pooper but do we really have to have threads like this in the JMDL. There are scads of political venues. I have seen other lists break down entirely in the pursuit of politically based "discussion" which somehow breaks down into a caldron of animosity, name calling and even hatred. So please could we keep this incredibly wonderful list free from purely political debate. We have barely scratched the surface of the Joni universe. - --part0_899001311_boundary Content-ID: <0_899001311@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay28.mx.aol.com (relay28.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.28]) by air12.mail.aol.com (v45.13) with SMTP; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:08:57 -0400 Received: from siren.shore.net (siren.shore.net [207.244.124.5]) by relay28.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id VAA26381; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smoe.org [204.167.97.154] by siren.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) id 0yq5wc-0001aT-00; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:07:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id VAA25504; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:07:37 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id VAA25486 for joni-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nico.bway.net (root@nico.bway.net [205.198.116.1]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-relay2) with ESMTP id VAA25482 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pl (dial-tulip-40.bway.net [209.73.231.64]) by nico.bway.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA10916; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:02:27 -0400 Message-ID: <01BDA20E.E4002AE0.trxschwa@bway.net> From: trxschwa To: "'simon@icu.com'" , "joni@smoe.org" Cc: "IVPAUL42@aol.com" Subject: RE: NRA Bullsh*t (NJC) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:02:22 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-joni@smoe.org Reply-To: trxschwa Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit simon wrote, - ------------- One could assume, too, that under a contemporary definition of the word "arms," that right should not be limited to guns, but rather our right to a bazooka, tank or a neutron bomb -- could not be infringed. - -------- and you could possibly think simon was being hyperbolic, that no one could believe that the nra is that evil, but get this: after oklahoma city, the issue of taggants in commercial explosives arose again. taggants would allow tracing of misused explosive material, and hopefully act as a deterrent to those considering using commercial explosives for terrorist acts. ammonium nitrate fertilizer, the material that mcveigh used (two tons of it mixed with 'nitromethane racing fuel'), has long been a candidate for taggants; for its terrorism potential. taggant legislation has been consistently defeated, both before and after ok city, by nra money and rhetoric. they are quite publicly against taggants in any commercial bomb materials. in '95 i thought 'why in the hell does the nra have a position on fertilizer explosive?' now i'm just frightened of these complete loons. patrick, wondering how that metaksa bitch slept at night, after each of this years schoolyard tragedies. np - nothing would be appropriate. ps. i had to do a little research, and god it was unpleasant. but this (prosecutor's opening statement) is worth reading, for the chemistry and more. http://www.freep.com/news/bombtrial/oktrans25.2.htm - --part0_899001311_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:42:02 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Al date >If Al's posts really disturb you, my suggestion is to not read them. One >click of the delete button and *poof* they never existed! Lord knows I do >that often enough with some of the stuff that goes through the JMDL. No >offense, none taken. > >Brian I couldn't agree more with Brian here. Besides, Al's posts never sounded offensive or ill-intentioned to me. It takes courage to go beyond the "Can I be your friend? kind of attitude that sometimes pervades the list's environment. We're all Hosts and we're all Guests on this list, although some occasionally may feel that they're only the former. Let's fulfill our duties as both less callously. WallyK, about to go downtown with a real dime store thief! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:11:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: Americana abroad funnY! my take during a 3wk visit to China to learn about minority musics was they have very careful tastes re: western music. do - a - deer, yes; jazz, no. reminds me of getting a note in my trailer in Niamey, Niger one day saying that vice prez Mondale was coming and would I please write out the American national anthem so the Nigerien Army band could play it when he stepped off the plane? This chance was too tempting. the beginning can be described in scale degrees like this: 5 3 1 - 3 - 5 - 1 - - and so on, these being degrees of our 7 note major scale. I changed all the 3s to 4s, thus bending it slightly! and was hard put to stay calm seeing Mondale's face when the band gave its rendition! I had to guffaw into my sleeve. .. TR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:45:19 -0700 From: Anne Madden Subject: Joni before & after cigarettes My twin teenagers daughters love Joni's early music - court & spark, blue and her greatest hits. They really liked her voice and when they heard her on the radio recently singing "Come in from the cold" they couldn't believe it was her. I like her voice and her music regardless. I have to agree that after years of smoking (and I'm an ex-smoker) it has ravaged her voice somewhat. Her voice is still good and unlike Dylan (and I'm a huge fan of his) we can still easily make out her lyrics. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 98 04:03:49 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: Fwd: NRA Bullsh*t (NJC)/ NO NEED FOR THESE POSTS. Hi MDESTE1, The NRA post was appropriately labelled NJC for "No Joni Content" NJC is a little protocol that we have here that enables all who come for Joni conversation to know that the post has nothing to do with Joni. All you need to do is delete it if the topic is not of interest to you, and its like it was never there. And it only takes a second :-) There are no unacceptable topics on this list, and many of us Joni fans have enjoyed interesting discussions and exchanges of ideas and opinions on things that have nothing or little to do with Joni. Joni once wrote: Critics of all expression Judges in black and white Saying "it's wrong," saying "it's right" Compelled by prescribed standards Or our own ideals we fight For wrong, wrong and right One of the reasons that this remains an incredibly wonderful list is that we strive to be respectful, courteous, and tolerant of one another. There really is no right or wrong in free and open self-expression. As for topics and threads that lack appeal to me, I've always found it easier and kinder to just delete them than to ask people to stop talking :-) Regards, -Kenny MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > I hate to be a party pooper but do we really have to have threads like this in > the JMDL. There are scads of political venues. I have seen other lists break > down entirely in the pursuit of politically based "discussion" which somehow > breaks down into a caldron of animosity, name calling and even hatred. So > please could we keep this incredibly wonderful list free from purely political > debate. We have barely scratched the surface of the Joni universe. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 02:23:00 -0400 (EDT) From: HEJIRA27@webtv.net (Gray Douglas) Subject: Otis and Marlena/ NRA I don't think the NRA bits coming through the JMDL are irrrelevant or insignifigant. Listen to "Otis and Marlena". Sometimes were so busy sheilding ourselves from the scary stuff that others are moving in for the kill. But not to dwell.........I do hope someone will ask Joni to sing "Amazing Grace" at the close of the day in "the garden" of Bethel. Anyone ever hear Meryl Streep sing it in the movie "Silkwood"? Kind of makes you glad there is a bit of diversity in the world. Peace, GD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 02:45:15 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: The silence is so full of sounds? Hello Anne et al, Joni's smoking has ALWAYS been around, and it astonished me when I first learned about it (early on in her career). The issue with Joni has been the desire not to be worshipped, that her audience "really understand who they're applauding up on stage". She has a genuine desire to communicate and be understood in REAL terms. The pretexts of stardom or noble artist, have never interested her. Witness the Hejira cover, which had the smoking and rich/fay issues right in your face. She's brilliant to try and carry her audience along with her in that way. Relative to your twin daughters liking Joni's early work story, my mother's loathing and contempt for Joni's voice is legendary. In the past she would say, "She cries." When I played the song Night Ride Home for her years ago she asked, "Who is this?" There is THAT much difference in Joni's voice from the time she originally interpreted songs like The Arrangement. Which to this day, I love to TRY to sing along to. Your post got me thinking about something else too. The proliferation of Lilith performers who have quoted Joni as an influence, must definately be having some impact on the younger generation's interest in her work. That is such a terrific thing for Joni's career. Let's face it, after trying to convert some of our generation to appreciate her talent for so long, we can ALL throw in the towel! At this point, from my perspective, you either are or you're not loving Joni. The younger generation is a whole new audience, just waiting to be exposed to a catalog of excellence. The hopefulness of Taming the Tiger is going to take it FAR! A sharp contrast to the hopelessness of Turbulent Indigo. Wait and see. Hopefully yours, Duane P.S. I ain't dissin' Turbulent Indigo. Does anyone find the keyboard programming on Man From Mars very familiar? Like it sounds similar to the beginning of the theme song from the television series Taxi or something? I can't put my finger on it. P.S. I ain't talkin' bout the acoustic version. There's also a lot of whispering on Taming the Tiger so far. Smoking! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #227 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?