From: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #226 Reply-To: Sender: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, June 27 1998 Volume 03 : Number 226 IMPORTANT - The JMDL has moved! Post all messages to from this point on. Update your address books! ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: piano on plains [Susan Chaloner ] Woodstock 98 [HEJIRA27@webtv.net (Gray Douglas)] Joni's Voice, Before & After Cigarettes ["Eric W Taylor" ] Pride 1998 ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Madonna covering Joni [Linda Brady ] Changing Subjects ["Mark Domyancich" ] Re: John Winston's rents [Mark or Travis ] HI ALL [Mlcdaisy@aol.com] Got my tickets! [Sue ] JC: Woodstock, Les, motives & voices [Kate Tarasenko ] Joni and her mother [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] Re: piano on plains [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Joni mother-shame fixation [FredNow@aol.com] More harvesting from the digests... [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] Joni In China [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Joni In China ["Mark Domyancich" ] Re: Joni In China [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni In China [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni In China ["Mark Domyancich" ] More Viagra News (Attn: Ms. Marsha Doyle) ["Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: piano on plains Hey Kenny and Everyone...Hold it just a minute! Piano???? I always thought it was the strings that were out of tune on Paprika Plains! ;~D Susan L.A. Just doing my usual...islanding in the stream ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:55:29 -0400 (EDT) From: HEJIRA27@webtv.net (Gray Douglas) Subject: Woodstock 98 Is everyone aware that the tickets for Woodstock 98 are on sale today? AND that Joni will be appearing on Aug. 15. O.K. O.K. I just wanted to see if you were paying attention . ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:15:28 -0400 From: "Eric W Taylor" Subject: Joni's Voice, Before & After Cigarettes Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >We don't have to choose *between* Joni's youthful soprano >and her current huskiness. We can enjoy both at our whim >because we have the recordings! I have to admit though..... even though I own all 19 albums/CDs, >I still wince at that clinker in Blue Motel Room at 25 seconds, >then again at 4:39. Okay, I admit it. This song always got on my nerves until very recently, when I heard it for the millionth time, and finally grasped it's sheer brilliance. Those clinkers convey the very essence of that song. Somehow I suspect that this thread is really about cigarettes... E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:01:05 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: Joni's Voice, Before & After Cigarettes Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > >I still wince at that clinker in Blue Motel Room at 25 seconds, > >then again at 4:39. And Eric W Taylor wrote: > Those clinkers convey the very essence of that song. > Somehow I suspect that this thread is really about cigarettes... > E.T. Eric you are blessed with extra-terrestrial vision! ;~D I've tried Joni's American Spirits and I've tried Marlboros but I prefer my Matinee Slims...American cigarrettes taste so different... Susan L.A. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:59:27 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: Joni's Voice, Before & After Cigarettes Eric W Taylor wrote: > Okay, I admit it. This song always got on my nerves until very recently, > when I heard it for the millionth time, and finally grasped it's sheer > brilliance. Those clinkers convey the very essence of that song. > Somehow I suspect that this thread is really about cigarettes... > E.T. I think its about smoking too. I can smell it...maybe the criteria for statements about her voive should be: Do you smoke cigarettes? cul:) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 05:19:08 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: ...and PJ Harvey (SJC) (was Alanis, NIN, Liz Phair, etc.) Hi all, Count me among those going out of town for the next couple of weeks (starting tomorrow) -- and I'm just getting caught up on mail from being out of town *last* week, so here is a rather late reply to a couple topics: A couple more comments about Liz Phair: first, I appreciate what Jase and Michael Y. have said about Liz's lyrics...and want to add (or repeat) that to knock Liz for crudity is to grossly underestimate her *intelligence*, a quality which ought to be immediately apparent to anyone who's listened to her work (or read an interview with her). Second, another thing to recommend her on, she has a very fine voice -- a lovely, clear soprano, but she sings in the low range to get a kind of conversational, deadpan quality in many songs. And she utilizes some interesting, unusual song structures, avoiding conventional verse/chorus/bridge form. Another artist I thought to mention in connection with the lyrics discussion (read: allow me to inflict my obsession upon you all :) ) is PJ Harvey, because her _To Bring You My Love_ is my definite personal choice for best album of the decade so far, and because to my mind there are some interesting lyrical parallels between some of PJ's and Joni's work. For example, Joni's "You are in my blood like holy wine....oh I could drink a case of you/and still I'd be on my feet" -- I hear this partly as a (seemingly contradictory?) declaration of simultaneous weakness or longing, and strength ("I would still be on my feet") -- something PJ expresses, though much more tersely, in lyrics like, "Oh, you're not rid of me/no, you're not rid of me/I'll make you lick my injuries" (from "Rid of Me"). It's blunt, even shocking, and yet at the same time, in its pain/power duality and thematic complexity, surprisingly subtle. So I don't think either the subject matter here or the way she deals with it can be considered "crude" at all, except in the most superficial sense of not being pretty (so-fucking-what, forgive my French?)....the terseness comes from the deep primal nature of her themes (like in the Reznor song), and also, significantly, the influence of the blues on her music. PJ is also not unlike Joni in having eschewed the "feminist" label despite writing songs very explicitly about gender and power, and in being an only child (if I remember right; and I don't know anything about her parents).... Any discussion/criticism of PJ will be answered in two weeks....don't think I'm not watching you.... :) re: Alanis; Marilyn wrote: <<"I went to the den, found your CD's and I played your Joni" Is there another Joni in the music business she was referring to?>> Whoops, I just thought of one: Joanie Sommers, of "Johnny Get Angry" fame! (Thanks to Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs.) - --David P.S. Loved Michael Y.'s report of the Tibetan Freedom concerts. Did anyone go to the Guinness Fleadh in New York or Chicago this month? NP: _To Bring You My Love_: Duck you under deep salt water Bring me lover all your power... ...in my dreaming you'll be drowning Raise me up Lord call me Lazarus.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:37:59 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Pride Parade NY 1998 Hi, Will anybody be going into New York City for 1998's Gay Pride Parade. If a few of us Joniphiles are going to be there maybe we could meet in some "neutral" cafe. "Tonight I'm going dancing with the drag queen and the punks, Big feet deliver me from the sanctimonious skunks"- Joni - -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:51:57 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: piano on plains I remember Joni saying that she recorded different parts of the piece months apart and grafted them together. In the time between recordings, the piano's turning changed ever so slightly. It was Mingus who heard it and exclaimed, "that piano's out of tune!!" > > This is the second time that someone has mentioned the out-of-tune piano on > > Plains. Will somebody better endowed [ aurally] than I please indicate a > > passage where this is evident? Deb Messling "Without music, life would be an error." --Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:58:31 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Pride 1998 Happy Gay Pride Day to all listers that are celebrating today! As for me, I'll have to wait until November -- in our late spring. June 27 is to Buenos Aires what January 27 is to New York, and bare legs, let alone nipples, can take only so much windchill factor. Have fun and kiss a stranger! WallyK, wearing his rainbow Elmer fudd hat tonight. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:50:43 +0100 From: Linda Brady Subject: Re: Madonna covering Joni I think Madonna could do "In France they Kiss on Main Street," all discoed out or something. The lyrics suit her. Linda - ---------- > From: Eric W Taylor > To: JMDL > Subject: Re: Madonna covering Joni > Date: 27 June 1998 06:58 > > Michael Yarbrough wrote: > > >If I were the executive producer of the Joni cover album, I would > >give Madonna two suggestions. "Down to You," with production > >along the lines of "I Want You" but more spacious and blippy... > >The other suggestion would be an all-out dancefloor rave-up > >version of "Black Crow," replete with wooden breakbeats and diving, > >diving, diving. > >And I would give Bjork "Shadows and Light" to play with and return > >whatever her mind invents. > > Yes, Madonna could do Down To You better than almost anyone. And I would > love to hear Black Crow done disco! > But bjork doesn't have the patience required for S&L, and would do a lot > better on There Lives A Wolf In Lindsey... > I'll be gone for a month, so sorry I can't reply. > E.T. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:09:00 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Changing Subjects I wish people would stop changing the subject line in their messages when they are replying to someone. For instance, one of the subjects I see is Let The Wind Carry Me, and everyone knows that's my favorite song. Then someone puts in those <. If you change the subject, PLEASE do: new subject (was:....) That is highly annoying. _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:24:16 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: John Winston's rents IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-06-26 22:10:57 EDT, Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM writes: > > << Has anyone even THOUGHT about the parents > of Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, Jackson Browne, John Lennon, ,.... > About the only thing I can vaguely recall is Paul's grandfather in > a Hard Day's Night! :) >> > > Lennon might also be a bad example of this since he wrote of his aunt who > raised him in ??? ( a song from the White Album whose title escapes me at this > groggy moment) and "Mother," his primal scream therapy song from his first > solo album, the Plastic Ono Band. > "Mother, you left me, but I never left you. > ... Father, I wanted you, but you didn't want me." > etc. Isn't the song 'Julia' about his mother, too? Mark in Seattle (not quite gone yet) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:38:03 EDT From: Mlcdaisy@aol.com Subject: HI ALL I havent posted in a while, since i have been so busy i am also having a hard time reading all of the posts as the volume is so large and my time so short in the past month i graduated from high school, and have been busy since i am leaving today for college orientation, i am going to GOUCHER in baltimore i come home with only a matter of hours before i am leaving again for the Bahamas for a week with a group of friends and my boyfriend so i am not going to be around for a while, and will have alot of posts to read when i get home i am sure I just wanted to say hi, and bye and i hope to meet some of you in august, for all of you who are going to a day in the garden to see the goddess i am in the process of planning a trip with a group of friends Meghan ps.to hit on one of the recent topics i agree with the opinion that joni's voice is still magnificent with age. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:13:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Got my tickets! Hey listers! I have my tickets! Now are we starting a list of who is going? Count me in! Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:37:31 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: JC: Woodstock, Les, motives & voices A shout out to Wally -- I hope your good days are increasing in number, and that you're getting plenty of comfortable rest. You're in my positive thoughts and best wishes. To Les: Is there any way for us to have A Day in the Garden list-link like we had for the West Coast tour? I got my ticket this morning (Saturday only) and would like to make meeting plans with others who'll be walkin' along the road. I don't have anything substantial to add to the wild discourse taking place about Joni's motives regarding her 'adoption plans' or her relationship with her parents -- when I have the energy, I'm busy obsessing over my own shit! But I find the tone and perhaps the whole topic a bit unseemly somehow. Not meaning to put a chilling effect on any discourse in general (as if I could if I wanted to!), it seems that even if some people aren't intending it, a lot of what I'm reading sounds overly judgmental, and begs the question: "Who cares?!" Finding Joni's "definitive central motivation" (Al.Date's words) seems pretty idealistic and unrealistic. I guess I just want to say that as much as I happily indulge in gossip, there are motives I couldn't ascribe with certainty to my best friends, such is the complex nature of each individual's humanity. Perhaps it's worth keeping this in mind as you dissect Joni's psyche, if that's what floats yer boat. As for Joni's voice, I am but an appreciative audience member, a music consumer, a fan... I can noodle out "Happy Birthday" on my accordion for my friends, and if I practice and don't drink too much champagne, I can usually bang out "Auld Lang Syne" once a year without embarrassing myself. (And when I AM drunk, it comes out in a minor key, the Russian version...) But to the charges that Joni's voice now lacks color, emotion and range... I say Not Guilty! Not Guilty! and Guilty by Reason of Maturity! As much as I love FTR and Blue and HOSL, I'm as equally enraptured by TI and NRH. It seems that SOME of this discussion is steeped in a sort of denial, the kind reserved for the reactionaries: Play the oldies, play the hits! Joni's voice has changed along with her repertoire. I don't ever find her singing off-key or uncertain -- the smoker's huskiness and age (and, no doubt, the vocal nodes) have endowed Joni's voice with new nuances that grab me lower, right in the solar plexus instead of right between the eyes, like the old stuff. I'm very glad to be a part of this cybercommunity. I look forward to meeting many of you in Bethel, NY in about six weeks. There's some corner building in NYC with graffiti on it that's shown up in a couple of Scorsese movies and episodes of "NYPD Blue." It says: BE NICE! Delurking in anticipation, Kate in Colorado ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:47:19 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: Joni and her mother This particular line sparks me to spend some writing time here: >>>Can you imagine if BOTH of her parents were rigid guilt-trippers? I think that this does Joni's mother a disservice. Joni's mom is about the same age as my mother. Coming of age during WWII, married with children during the complacent 50s and suddenly hit **SMACK** with the 60's and a huge, huge change in things. Not only in mores but in available information, understanding of psychological make-ups, acceptance of different lifestyles and points of views. What a scary thing! Suddenly, the beliefs that made up the warp and weft of their moral cloth was subject to change. Not only did things change, but they were told that they were wrong. Which makes for a personal indictment rather than a paradigm shift. No wonder people got defensive and clung even tighter to the more familiar mores of old. I've been doing this two-step with my mother for years. Surely I've pushed and pushed at the boundaries of what she could easily accept, (dropping out of college to "find myself") to what was beyond her scope of change, (being young and pregnant and unmarried). Sometimes it resulted in a complete break in communications. Sometimes it resulted in a better understanding between the two of us. Sometimes it was just a subject better left untouched. I don't think that it is guilt-tripping at all as much as it is the difficulties in reconciling the bedrock upon which people like my mom built their moral codes with new and completely different sets of values. It could test the skills of even the most psychologically and emotionally stable person MG np: counting down the days until all three bandits are outta my hair for two solid months. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:57:50 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: piano on plains In a message dated 6/27/98 2:02:12 AM, DKasc13293@aol.com wrote: >The truth of the Paprika Plains out of tune piano story is that Paprika Plains >was recorded at different times. The orchestration was overdubbed, and the >piano was tuned inbetween recordings. It was originally recorded in August >(some random month) and then completed months later (like in October). >You're not hearing a played-straight-through recording on the album. The >piano is out of tune with the orchestration 3/4 of the way through. This is correct. >I can only remember In Agada Divida (sp) and >Thick as Brick sustaining a pop audiences interest for that length of time. I love Agada Divida! I have all her records! (insert emoticon here) Actually, it's In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, by Iron Butterfly, which supposedly derived its name from a drunken band member's rendering of the phrase "in the garden of eden." - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:07:57 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni mother-shame fixation In a message dated 6/27/98 2:02:12 AM, TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: >I'd like to suggest >that we all use some politically correct language in discussing adoption, if >you don't mind. "Giving up a baby" is considered politically incorrect these >days. A birthmom makes an "adoption plan"- she doesn't just give up a baby. >People not involved in adoption would be amazed at how much thought and >planning actually goes into this process. I apologize for jumping into the middle of a thread; I haven't been able to keep up with the digests coming so fast and furious these days. I agree with Terry here, and not for reasons of political correctness. "Giving up a baby" implies abandonment, but when a birth mother makes arrangements to have her baby adopted, it is actually the very opposite of abandonment ... she is ensuring the best possible life for the baby; a supremely unselfish act. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:53:40 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: More harvesting from the digests... Another line caught my eye and has me musing here this morning rather than attending to the glamor and flash of an accountant's job: >>But her being a hopeless nicotine addict is not a good indicator of fulfillment, I am afraid. I am uncomfortable with this statement. Make no mistake, Joni is a drug addict. But not being able to quit isn't an indicator of fulfillment per se, at least not in the way that I'm taking this line to read. It seemed to be a part of Al's comments and observations that perhaps Joni is has more repressions than imagined. Not being able to achieve sobriety from a chemical substance is more a testiment to the incredible, addictive nature of the drug itself, not someone's character strength or personal fortitude or fulfillment. To be sure, addiction is often tangled up with many other personality traits, but in the context of what I perceive to be Al's comments, I don't think the aforementioned statement works. Having said THAT, I would like to say that overall, I have really enjoyed Al's posts. They've been provocative without being mean. Certainly, I've passionately disagreed with a lot of what he had to say, but what the heck. It started me thinking, which while certainly a dangerous thing at times, is always a good thing. Lastly, I agree wholeheartedly with this paragraph. He did precede it with "on one level, it's none of my damn business," but..... """But you know how it is to be a public figure. And, in general, Joni stated VERY EARLY ON a conscious desire for her fans to KNOW HER, to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE WORSHIPING. So, having once whetted our appetite for intimate knowledge, it is not so easy to turn it off. She has confessed to us enough material that we all feel like we know her to some extent. Which leads to some speculation on the yet unknown.""" I think this is very true and leads to the sort of speculation about her personal live and motives that can be intrusive. But she herself started the ball rolling. And she said so, bluntly in words that left no doubt that she meant herself. So from that, she's fair game to speculate out the wahoo. Although she is indeed, simply human, public consumption has created a pot into which we throw our comments and observations and stir the whole mess round and round. We just need to take care to not slop up the kitchen. MG really, truly, absolutely going to start working now. Yep. U-huh. You bet. For sure. Make no mistake. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:23:19 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: smoking:what joni said Belaboring a thread: A radio interview with Joni I listened to a couple months ago delved into the subject of her incessant smoking. Joni said she felt grounded by it and that she thinks that some people simply require it to maintain a less than orbital consciousness. She reported having visited a Hawiian "medicine man" who told her that her smoking was an effort to keep from being invisible...that her vibratory rate was so high that needed to consume tabacco to avoid being transparent in this existence. What rationales will we smokers not exploit...i ask you? As far as it affecting her voice in a derogatory way, well, where would Tom Waits be without all that booze? cul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:30:22 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Joni In China Clinton Leads China's Army Band .c The Associated Press By RENEE SCHOOF BEIJING (AP) - First the grand entry up a white marble staircase, the toasts to friendship, the ``superb shark's fin in soy sauce'' and other banquet dishes. Then, a little fun. Just after the last plate of sliced watermelon and orange slices was cleared away Saturday from the banquet tables in the Great Hall of the People, Presidents Clinton and Jiang Zemin walked across the enormous banquet hall to toast the People's Liberation Army band. Band leader Fan Siting urged Jiang to direct a song. Jiang hesitated. ``You can do it. You do it!'' Clinton goaded him with a grin. ``Go for it.'' So Jiang did, leading the band in a few bars of ``A Song for the Motherland'' as Clinton beamed and stood with his arm around his wife, Hillary. Then Jiang handed the baton to Clinton, who directed for several minutes as band members in green PLA uniforms played an American march, ``Hands Across the Sea.'' The evening began with President and Mrs. Clinton walking hand in hand up the red-carpeted marble stairway lined by cut-glass lamps on the balustrades. Mrs. Clinton wore a bright yellow suit with flowing trousers and a lustrous jacket with upturned collar and cuffs. She and Jiang's wife, Wang Yeping, who wore a long black velvet dress and sequined jacket, chatted before entering the banquet hall. Attire for the men was dark business suits. In predinner toasts, Clinton spoke of American admiration for the ``great strides China has taken,'' and Jiang said he hoped Clinton would experience China's culture, its economic advances and its people's friendship for Americans. The meal was a simplified take on old-style Chinese banquets of dish after dish. Along with the shark came coconut-flavored chicken soup with bean curd, grilled beefsteak, mushrooms and mustard greens, thick pea soup with walnuts, pastries and fruit. In the back of the hall, the army band played on. Among its Chinese and American repertoire: ``The Yellow Rose of Texas'' and ``Home on the Range.'' Afterward, a large orchestra, the Chinese Musical Ensemble, played Chinese traditional and Western instruments under huge American and Chinese flags. One of its numbers was a swinging version of Joni Mitchell's ``Chelsea Morning'' set to traditional Chinese instruments with a solo on the suona, a small horn. Clinton told the musicians that ``Chelsea Morning'' inspired his daughter's name. AP-NY-06-27-98 1332EDT ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:47:35 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: Joni In China Fred Now wrote: > C'mon, Mark, that has been common knowledge and was confirmed since BEFORE Clinton was elected president. This was no special confirmation. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:52:19 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni In China In a message dated 98-06-27 14:32:03 EDT, FredNow@aol.com writes: << Afterward, a large orchestra, the Chinese Musical Ensemble, played Chinese traditional and Western instruments under huge American and Chinese flags. One of its numbers was a swinging version of Joni Mitchell's ``Chelsea Morning'' set to traditional Chinese instruments with a solo on the suona, a small horn. >> Now THAT's a bootleg recording I'd like to see on the next tape tree!!! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:09:20 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: Joni In China It's been disputed in the past, then no one had actual proof to prove it. Now this is the proof. Excuse the hell out of me, I wasn't apart of this bitching fest when Clinton wasn't president yet. > Subject: More Viagra News (Attn: Ms. Marsha Doyle) MADRID, June 25 (AFP) - A Dutch tourist in the Spanish resort of Benidorm was admitted to hospital after the male impotency drug Viagra caused an erection lasting 36 hours, the Spanish press reported Thursday. The 50-year-old tourist, who had no history of impotency, told doctors at a clinic in Alicante that he had taken the drug 36 hours earlier and had since been unable to lose the erection. A urologist at the clinic, Bartolome Lloret, told the El Mundo daily that the patient had no medical need of Viagra, but merely wished to improve his sexual performance. Lloret warned the incident could possibly have serious after-effects for the patient. He said it demonstrated the danger of taking the drug when there was no real need to do so. After a night's stay in the clinic, the patient was able to return home. The urologist said the case might be Spain's first recorded adverse experience with Viagra, which is not on sale in the country. _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:19:23 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Setlist discussion Steve Dulson wrote ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >This is NOT criticism - don't jump on me, Joni can play whatever she likes >and I'll love it - but my only disappointment is that she only did 2 songs >from TTT - I really, really wanted to hear "Harlem" live. Just a small >boo-hoo on a happy day. >__________________________________________________________________________ and Bill Dollinger wrote ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >I would have loved to hear it, but i am not very surprised. There is a >lot going on in that song, several layered textures that would be hard if >not impossible to recreate live. >__________________________________________________________________________ Steve, you almost got your wish. when we (Wally, Karl & i) met and spoke with Joni at the Gorge Amphitheatre, she explained how she and the band did attempt to 'work up' a live version of "Harlem In Havana." she told us it was difficult for her to cooridinate the playing of the song, with the singing of the song. rhythmically difficult. one of the photos Karl took clearly shows Joni on 'air-guitar' as she related how she couldn't quite get the rhythm down and eventually dropped the whole idea. i imagine this might be the case with a number of songs from recent albums due to her current recording methods. quite often musical tracks are recorded (built), complete with instrumental overdubs and a final mix *before* a lyric is ever written. this can easily lead to songs with a rhythmic complexity that's difficult to reproduce 'live'. this wouldn't have necessarily been a problem earlier in her career when words 'n' music would (more or less) come together at the same time. on the other hand it's worth noting that by the time a musician has 4-or-5 albums released, the reality is that *most* of their songs are never performed _Live In Concert_ since there are just too many. she did finally pull out "Love Puts On A New Face" for only the 2nd time at the recent TV taping, and then only on the first night. personally i thought the SetList for the recent shows was perfect. although there were no real surprises, there weren't any disappointments either. - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:20:00 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni Songbooks Denise wrote ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Hi, I have been looking for an old book of Joni's. It has songs from >the first two albums as well as songs like Jeremy and Strawflower Girl >(or something like that) as well as a few more songs not on albums. >__________________________________________________________________________ Denise, the songbook in question is: The Music Of JONI MITCHELL Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 70-107630 (c) 1969 by Siquomb Publishing Corp., NYC the cover uses the CLOUDS album cover artwork. in addition to the Poem "The Fishbowl", is features the following songs: 1. Both Sides, Now 2. Cactus Tree 3. CARNIVAL IN KENORA 4. Chelsea Morning 5. The Dawntrader 6. The Fiddle And The Drum 7. The Gallery 8. I Don't Know Where I Stand 9. I Had A King 10. I Think I Understand 11. JEREMY 12. Ladies Of The Canyon 13. A MELODY IN YOUR NAME 14. Marcie 15. Michael From Mountains 16. MOON IN THE MIRROR 17. Nathan LaFraneer 18. Night In The City 19. The Pirate Of Penance 20. POOR SAD BABY 21. The Priest Song 22. Roses Blue 23. Sisotowbell Lane 24. Song To A Seagull 25. Songs To Aging Children Come 26. STRAW-FLOWER ME 27. That Song About The Midway 28. Tin Angel 29. WHO HAS SEEN THE WIND 30. WINTERLADY - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:19:41 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Tour SetlistS Mark Domyancich wrote ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Also, when the tour's over could someone post the venue, date and setlist >for all the shows in one email? It would be greatly appreciated. >__________________________________________________________________________ Mark, here they are. there's not a lot of variety ... but when you've crafted the Perfect Set, why play around it. - ------- simon - ------- JONI MITCHELL General Motors Place Vancover, British Columbia may 14, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries Of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Facelift 10. Sex Kills 11. The Magdalene Laundries 12. Moon At The Window 13. Refuge Of The Roads 14. Big Yellow Taxi - ------------------------------------------------------------------ JONI MITCHELL The Gorge Amphitheatre #1 George, Wa. may 16, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries Of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Big Yellow Taxi 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Moon At The Window 14. Woodstock w/BOB DYLAN 15. I Shall Be Released (Joni & Van Morrison, vocals) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ JONI MITCHELL The Gorge Amphitheatre #2 George, Wa. may 17, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries Of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Big Yellow Taxi 9. Hejira 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Moon At The Window 14. Woodstock - ------------------------------------------------------------------ JONI MITCHELL San Jose Arena San Jose, Ca. may 19, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries Of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Big Yellow Taxi 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Moon At The Window 14. Woodstock - ------------------------------------------------------------------ JONI MITCHELL Pauley Pavilion @ U.C.L.A. #1 Los Angeles, Ca. may 21, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Big Yellow Taxi 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Moon at the Window 14. Woodstock - ------------------------------------------------------------------ JONI MITCHELL Pauley Pavilion @ U.C.L.A. #2 Los Angeles, Ca. may 22, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Big Yellow Taxi 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Moon at the Window 14. Woodstock - ------------------------------------------------------------------ JONI MITCHELL Arrowhead Pond Arena Anaheim, Ca. may 23, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Big Yellow Taxi 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Woodstock - ------------------------------------------------------------------ JONI MITCHELL Warner Brothers Studios (Stage 22) Burbank, Ca. may 29, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries Of Love 3. Love Puts On A New Face (false start) 4. Love Puts On A New Face (incomplete take) 5. Love Puts On A New Face 6. Harry's House 7. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 8. Just Like This Train 9. Black Crow 10. Amelia 11. Hejira 12. Refuge Of The Roads 13. Facelift 14. Sex Kills 15. The Magdalene Laundries 16. Moon at the Window (false start) 17. Moon at the Window 18. The Three Great Stimulants 19. Big Yellow Taxi 20. Woodstock 21. Comes Love 22. Why Do Fools Fall In Love 23. Why Do Fools Fall In Love 24. Trouble Man 25. Song For Sharon - ------------------------------------------------------------------ JONI MITCHELL Warner Brothers Studios (Stage 22) Burbank, Ca. may 30, 1998 1. Big Yellow Taxi 2. Comes Love 3. Why Do Fools Fall in Love 4. Why Do Fools Fall in Love 5. Trouble Man 6. Trouble Man (incomplete) 7. Trouble Man (false start) 8. Trouble Man 9. Night Ride Home (incomplete) 10. Night Ride Home 11. The Crazy Cries Of Love 12. Harry's House 13. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 14. Just Like This Train (false start) 15. Just Like This Train 16. Black Crow 17. Amelia 18. Hejira 19. Refuge Of The Roads (incomplete) 20. Refuge Of The Roads 21. Facelift 22. Sex Kills 23. The Magdalene Laundries 24. Moon At The Window 25. The Three Great Stimulants 26. Woodstock - ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:20:37 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Canadian JONI Tribute CD joe horne wrote ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >A friend of mine said that several Canadian artists did a Joni tribute >album recently (that included Andy Stochansky, Ani Difranco's drummer boy). >What is this album? Where can I get it? >__________________________________________________________________________ the album in question is: "BACK TO THE GARDEN: A Tribute To Joni Mitchell" Intrepid Records CD #N21-00016 as for "Where can i get it?" you'll have to settle for a used copy, if you can find it. the CD is out-or-print, and the company that released it is out-of-business. sorry. Track List, as follows: 1. Big Faith FREE MAN IN PARIS 2. Sara Craig THIS FLIGHT TONIGHT 3. Universal Honey CAREY 4. Lorraine Scott BIG YELLOW TAXI 5. Molly Johnson BLACK CROW 6. Andy Stochansky THE BEAT OF BLACK WINGS 7. Martha and the Muffins SHADES OF SCARLET CONQUERING 8. Funky Bummer (featuring Anne Beadle) THE HISSING OF SUMMER LAWNS 9. Hugh Marsh, Jonathan Goldsmith, Rob Piltch & Martin Tielli RIVER 10. Kurt Swinghammer YOU TURN ME ON, I'M A RADIO 11. Spirit of the West COYOTE 12. W.O.W. WOODSTOCK 13. Jenny Whitely NIGHT IN THE CITY 14. Sloan A CASE OF YOU 15. Squiddly (featuring Maria del Mar) BLONDE IN THE BLEACHERS 16. John Cody & Marti Jones SONGS TO AGING CHILDREN COME 17. Rocket Science (featuring Laura Hubert & Art Bergmann) REFUGE OF THE ROADS hope this helps, - ------- simon - ------- * Remember, there's a difference between kneeling down and bending over -- FZ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:34:37 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Got my tickets! (NJC) Suze wrote: >I have my tickets! Now are we starting a list of who is going? Count me in! Yes, let's start a list! Then perhaps we can all figure out a way to find each other in Bethel ... Sue Cameron Lori Fye (and friends) And ... ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:57:27 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni Songbooks, Pt-2 JRMCo1@aol.com recently asked about JONI Songbooks ... >__________________________________________________________________________ > > >Anyway, I wanted to ask: Does anyone know if there is a songbook for >every album/cd Joni has released? I'd like to have a copy of them all. >__________________________________________________________________________ yes and (maybe) no. actually i'm not sure that there were *seperate* songbooks for "Song To A Seagull" or "Ladies Of The Canyon", however see #4 on the list below. these are the ones i know about: SONGBOOKS: 1. Joni Mitchell: Easy for guitar 2. Joni Mitchell Anthology 3. The Music Of JONI MITCHELL 4. JONI MITCHELL SONGBOOK: Complete volume number 1 (1966-1970) [songs from STAS, CLOUDS & LOTC] 5. Clouds 6. Blue 7. For the Roses 8. Court & Spark 9. Hissing of Summer Lawns 10. Hejira 11. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 12. Mingus 13. Wild Things Run Fast 14. Dog Eat Dog 15. Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 16. Night Ride Home 17. Turbulent Indigo 18. Hits 19. Misses SHEET MUSIC (Folios) 1. Chelsea Morning 2. I Don't Know Where I Stand 3. Both Sides Now 4. Big Yellow Taxi 5. In France They Kiss On Main Street 6. Coyote 7. (You're So Square) Baby, I Don't Care NOTE: if anyone is interested in purchasing some of these songbooks try: Briggs and Briggs Music Store / Cambridge, Ma. (617) 547-2007 the should have the following in stock, at least they did last week. they do mail-order and will accept a credit card. Wild Things Run Fast (o/p) Chalkmark In A Rainstorm (o/p) Night Ride Home Turbulent Indigo Hits Misses The New Best Of JONI MITCHELL Joni Mitchell Anthology o/p = out of print, once these are gone that's IT! they cannot be reordered. you can also try: McCabes Music Store / Santa Monica, Ca. (310) 828-4497 a friend purchased a copy of "Chalkmark In A Rainstorm" last week and says they have 1-or-2 left. - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:55:14 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: "A Day In The Garden" - Who's Going? (NJC) Sorry, Kate, I almost missed your name! The list so far: Sue Cameron Lori Fye (and friends) Kate Tarasenko Gray Douglas ? And ... ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:22:31 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Songbooks, Pt-2 Thanks for the wealth of information, simon. It's good to see your moniker again. Four songbooks down, 15 more to go for me. - -Julius In a message dated 98-06-27 16:58:00 EDT, simon@icu.com writes: << these are the ones i know about: SONGBOOKS: 1. Joni Mitchell: Easy for guitar 2. Joni Mitchell Anthology 3. The Music Of JONI MITCHELL 4. JONI MITCHELL SONGBOOK: Complete volume number 1 (1966-1970) [songs from STAS, CLOUDS & LOTC] 5. Clouds 6. Blue 7. For the Roses 8. Court & Spark 9. Hissing of Summer Lawns 10. Hejira 11. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 12. Mingus 13. Wild Things Run Fast 14. Dog Eat Dog 15. Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm 16. Night Ride Home 17. Turbulent Indigo 18. Hits 19. Misses >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:43:15 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: NRA Bullsh*t (NJC) Paul I. wrote ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Did anyone else notice the irony in Charlton Heston's statement last week >after he was elected president of the National Rifle Association. In his >statement defending our right to bear arms (I should say here that I do >prefer long-sleeved shirts myself) that many more people die in auto >accidents every year than are killed by guns yet, Heston said, we do not >seek to take autmobiles away from the people. > >Hey, Chuck, I do recall having to get a LICENSE to legally drive a car! > >Paul I >__________________________________________________________________________ Hey Paul, I noticed! i also know that you must REGISTER your car and have it INSPECTED every year. i recently found the following while going thru some old files. i don't remember whether i wrote it or obtained it elsewhere. ___________________________________________________________________________ THE 'RIGHT' TO BEAR ARMS Chiseled on the stone and marble building of the National Rifle Association in Washington is part of the Second Amentment to the Constitution, the part about the right to bear arms that shall not be infringed. But do we have an absolute right to bear arms? The full text of the Second Amendment reads "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Controversial, though the words may be, the Supreme Court rulings on this issue have been consistent, in giving it a "militia" interpretation. In the precedent setting U.S. vs. Cruickshank (92 US 542,543) the Court ruled "...the bearing of arms is not a right granted by the Constitution..." and this was so quoted again in the Presser decision, and again, more recently, in Judge Bernard Decker's Morton Grove decision. The courts reaffirmed this position again in 1980 (Lewis vs. U.S.) ruling the Second Amendment guarantees no right to bear arms that does not have "some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia." Having just broken from English rule, which for obvious reasons had forbidden local militias in the colonies, the founders wanted to protect a local militia for political defense. Self-protection with arms was not the issue at the writing of the Constitution. If the NRA, or others, truly believe we have an absolute right to "bear arms" that cannot be infringed, they should have lawyers challenge every federal, state and local gun law presently in force. Because, if they are right, all such laws are unconstitutional. One could assume, too, that under a contemporary definition of the word "arms," that right should not be limited to guns, but rather our right to a bazooka, tank or a neutron bomb -- could not be infringed. Could this be what the founding fathers had in mind? Or is it possible that this "right" is not as chiseled in stone as some would have us believe? ___________________________________________________________________________ - ------- simon - ------- * Remember, there's a difference between kneeling down and bending over -- FZ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #226 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?