From: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #218 Reply-To: Sender: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, June 24 1998 Volume 03 : Number 218 IMPORTANT - The JMDL has moved! Post all messages to from this point on. Update your address books! ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC: Alanis as poet & Equal Male Time ["Don Rowe" ] woodstock '98 - web address [bryan thomas ] Re: Alanis and other pretenders [jan gyn ] NJC "Fire and Rain" [steve@psitech.com (Steve Dulson)] Re: NJC Fire and Rain ["Don Rowe" ] boom boom pachyderm [GREYC1@aol.com] Re: Joni and her mom etc. [Melinda Everett ] covers [neo@mail.utexas.edu (Neil E. Orts)] Re: Janet & the BOBW [Jason Maloney ] Re: Woodstock? [LRFye@aol.com] Re: NJC Fire and Rain ["Mark Domyancich" ] Re: JONI MOTHER'S DAY [TerryM2442@aol.com] The "Scary" Part of "Woodstock" [LRFye@aol.com] Pumping (NJC) ["James A. Murray" ] Re: Dulson finds NRH [Bounced Message ] Re: Joni and her mom [Bounced Message ] Re: Dulson finds NRH,consistency ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Tribute album... [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Les' Great report on Wally - what a phone conversation!!!! [Les Irvin] Re: NJC "Fire and Rain" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Debates, jmdl-style [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Tribute album... ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Woodstock? [djp ] Re: Woodstock? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Pumping (NJC) ["Mark Domyancich" ] Re: Woodstock? ["Mark Domyancich" ] Re: Re; joan Armatrading (NJC) [Bill Dollinger ] Metaphorical Autobiography (was JONI MOTHER'S DAY) [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Gra] NJC Waterbug [Steve Dulson ] Re: Joni's no dino [jan gyn ] Re: Hejira and the Bass [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Debates, jmdl-style [Marsha Doyle ] RE: Joni's no dino [davina@pacificsw.com (Davina Greenstein)] Re: Metaphors, Similes and the Artist's Intention ["Don Rowe" ] Re: woodstock USA Today [Les Irvin ] Re: woodstock [jan gyn ] Joni As Barometer [Ashara@aol.com] Re: JONI MOTHER'S DAY [RickieLee1@aol.com] (NJC) Re: woodstock [Marsha Doyle ] joni no dino (smartass reply: really njc) [Wolfebite@aol.com] Re: JONI MOTHER'S DAY [catman ] Emmylou [Anne Madden ] WOODSTOCK [mmacphee@glinx.com (Hayley MacPhee)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:58:53 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: NJC: Alanis as poet & Equal Male Time sherrie.good writes ... my question remains: why is it always the new female artist that get >bashed? i have one word for you folks bashing new female artist: HANSON. > All I can say is, if you want chapter and verse from me about such equally worthless acts as "Matchbox 20", "Mexico 70" and the proliferation of what I generally refer to as "the nose-singers" (Blues Traveller, Counting Crows et al.), all you have to do is ask! Now chill people, First Amendment and all that ... :-) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:03:05 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Dirty mouth feminism RickieLee writes -- >am i alone here? is there ANYTHING more obnoxious than someone who thinks himself an intellectual (not to mention a radical feminist) pointing out the truth for the rest of us dodobirds? just keep on talking al. you reveal yourself with every word. > >i don't mean to be rude, but i have so little patience with pretense...sorry. >just the way i see it... > Well ric, I guess it's just important for some people to let everyone know they paid attention in all those sociology classes mom and dad paid for ... (tongue-in-cheek y'all no slam on the phDs out 'dere!) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:03:57 -0400 From: bryan thomas Subject: woodstock '98 - web address well the whole patience of job thing with the west coast tour has paid off... the lord has directed ms. mitchell right into my backyard in upstate new york. with lou and pete and richie, no less. mmm-mmm-goooood. i'm not sure if anyone has posted the address for the official site. it's: http://www.DayintheGarden.com/ . peace, b. - ------------------------------- http://www.bryanthomas.com music@bryanthomas.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:14:15 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Alanis and other pretenders >exactly. I've always hated Alanis. Her voice is whiny and her songs are >terrible, even if she doesn't right them. I never understood the "angry chick" >thing that was going on. screw that. i've never enjoyed her. she's just >another peon to pop banality. Alanis should take an acid bath. > >mariana > I'm not much into Alanis, but I have the Liz Phair albums, and mostly (if ever) play her first one... You know who's just wonderously angry? Kathleen Hanna of Bikini Kill, who I think have already broken up. Both 'Blood One' and 'Rebel Girl' from 'Pussywhipped', their first full length, are total flamethrowers. - -jan "When she walks, the revolution's coming In her hips, there's revolution When she talks, i hear the revolution" - -Rebel Girl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:51:32 -0700 From: steve@psitech.com (Steve Dulson) Subject: NJC "Fire and Rain" Don R. wrote: > I mean, think about all > the horrendous covers of James Taylor's "Fire and Rain", which is a true > story about the death of the woman he loved in a plane crash As I recall, James has described "Fire and Rain" as about a woman named Suzanne whom he met in a mental institution, and who later killed herself, the break-up of his band "Flying Machine" and his heroine addiction. Two more cents. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:51:59 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: NJC Fire and Rain Steve writes ... >As I recall, James has described "Fire and Rain" as about a woman >named Suzanne whom he met in a mental institution, and who later >killed herself, the break-up of his band "Flying Machine" and his >heroine addiction. > I think you may be right on this ... I've always thought that tale I'd been hearing sounded a little tall, yours sounds much more realistic. But either way, it's still a personal song a la "Beat of Black Wings" and it still has been covered horrendously! Thanks for the two cents. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:56:31 EDT From: GREYC1@aol.com Subject: boom boom pachyderm I was always under the impression that she was referring to John Guerin, his being a drummer and all. I also assumed that most of the relationship-ending references in Hejira were about him. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:14:45 -0500 From: Melinda Everett Subject: Re: Joni and her mom etc. Al, Obviously no one on this list feels insecure enough to take the feminist bait you are throwing out. Silence does not mean acquiescence, necessarily. Like, for example, it could mean that it's just not such a big issue for a lot of women on this list like it seems to be for you. I feel like you're using the wrong approach to the subject. In my view, Joni takes a middle, more compassionate stance toward feminism and other potentially extreme and dividing issues. I think this is a sign of her own strength and wisdom, and I think that many people here on this list share that and are attracted to her music because of that. > > >Just like that lame bulb, she has had a hard time blooming > in any Spring. I seem to find myself wondering why you are on this list, because you appear to see Joni as weak. Joni is a self-proclaimed non-feminist, and as I see it a non "-ist"-er in general. She may recognize that the human spirit is too broad and complex and dynamic to be labelled in terms like these. That's what her music conveys to me at least, and if anything, I would call her a "humanist." Joni is an autonomous thinker in my opinion. This means that she thinks for herself rather than trying to fit into any existing categories or labels. > > >> Is this fear of a binding love-commitment a precursor to her later inability to commit to anyone for more than a couple of years? I disagree here too. Joni seems to have/have had many really special, meaningful connections and commitments in her relationships with men. She has such an incredible emotional capacity (being a Scorpio and all, but WHOA! I better be careful, I don't really see myself as an astrolog"ist.") I think MG said it, that Joni honors her self very strongly, and it takes courage do this. Sometimes that means that 2 people may come together for a short time, find their bond and share it, and then, as painful as it may be, move on. I don't see it as fickleness at all. Relationships take many forms because they really are all about learning (hopefully). "Life is for learning . . ." As for the liberated woman stuff, what in the hell does this mean? That's just one of those hackneyed terms that really to me has lost all meaning. It doesn't even plug me in. I usually don't get into these types of issues. You just believe what you believe, is my opinion, and you live your life as you see is best for you until you learn some more. I hope that I've been "polite" about it, Al! ;-) Melinda - -- Support the OLGA Blue Treble Clef Campaign! http://www.olga.net/support.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:20:29 -0400 (EDT) From: neo@mail.utexas.edu (Neil E. Orts) Subject: covers Jason wrote: >Whoa! Does anyone agree with me that the idea of Janet doing Beat Of >Black Wings is just totally "WRONG"???? Not really. In fact I'm rather curious to hear it. I think it's an interesting match. Don Rowe replied to Jason: >My main objection to this would be that I have serious doubts about >Janet's voice being able to cover the dynamic range of the song. I agree with Don in that I don't find Janet's voice to have the . . . I would use the word range. I've not heard her use her voice with the . . . okay, range of stylistic nuances that the song might need. I say this not having heard anything of Janet's in years. I can hear Janet delivering, in her low breathy voice, "I can still hear the fucking music playing" already, and I like how it sounds in my head. :) The fact that she's a Joni fan and she herself has legions of fans (I'm assuming this is still true) I'm hoping that someone will pick up the tribute album in order to get Janet's cover and be exposed to Joni's work. I've been turned on to at least on other singer/songwriter because of a tribute album, so I know it *has* worked before. Has a final line-up on this tribute album been set? How about a release date? - -Neil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * . . . books are my passion, not only writing Sr. Administrative Assoc. * them and every once in a while even reading Office of Graduate Studies * them but just having them and moving them University of Texas Austin * around and feeling the comfort of their Main 101 -- 512/471-4511 * serene presence. neo@mail.utexas.edu * -Frederick Buechner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:46:47 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Janet & the BOBW Don Rowe wrote: > My main objection to this would be that I have serious doubts about > Janet's voice being able to cover the dynamic range of the song. I'd > much rather hear Sean Colvin or Mary Chapin-Carpenter take a crack at it > from that standpoint. I agree with you Don. I wasn't suggesting that nobody should dare attempt a version of the song per se......in fact an artist such as Colvin or Carpenter could indeed still do justice to it. Thanks for bringing this valid point to everyone's attention. I never meant to sound as though I was saying I didn't think anyone should touch Joni's songs! jason. > > If in fact, BOBW is a story personal to Joni (I'll admit to not knowing > the details), that may not bother me as much. I mean, think about all > the horrendous covers of James Taylor's "Fire and Rain", which is a true > story about the death of the woman he loved in a plane crash ... I'm > sure the list will have numerous other examples, but if one artist can > objectify an experience, no matter how painful, another artist's > interest can serve to validate and affirm the experience. The end > result is that many other listeners, who might never have heard a song, > now will -- and can appreciate it. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:26:04 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock? Steve Dulson asked: > Who is going to buy tickets on Saturday?? I am! I'm gathering a few non-JMDL Joni fanatics (one from San Antonio, one from Glendale, CA, and one from Philly) ... we're going to meet in NYC and drive from there. Who from the JMDL is going? Lori in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:27:14 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: NJC Fire and Rain I also heard Fire and Rain is about when James was in jail for a minor drug possession. Don wrote: As I recall, James has described "Fire and Rain" as about a woman <>named Suzanne whom he met in a mental institution, and who later <>killed herself, the break-up of his band "Flying Machine" and his <>heroine addiction. <> > Oh for Christ (or Buddha, for that matter) sake. Says WHO? I've personally been involved in the adoption process twice and I can say for certain that these types of choices are usually done out of the best interests of the child. Mothers, in general, know and want what's best for them. Choosing adoption as an option is one hell of a brave thing to do. <> I agree with the others. Apologizing isn't what I hear; I hear being sensitive to other people's feelings. I also hear a woman who's willing to think about relationships in a very deep way, whether of mother/child, man/woman, etc. <> ...and aren't we all to some degree???? Joni creates art out of it. Most artists create art as an expression of some conflict. Tell me something new. <> Who's to say that all of these women aren't struggling with the same issue, Al? Some are just more overt- in your face about it- while others are subtle. The little kid on the playground who says "your mom's a shit" could easily be working on the same issues as the kid who belts him in the mouth for saying it. Same song different words. <> ...and this is where you and I agree. But I am really curious why you sound so angry about Joni's relationship with her mother. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:28:28 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: The "Scary" Part of "Woodstock" Rumor has it that Marilyn Manson and Megadeath are playing, too ... has anyone else heard this? If so, what a line up ... Lori in San Antonio, rounding up all her open-mindedness ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:28:05 -0700 From: "James A. Murray" Subject: Pumping (NJC) "Mark Domyancich" >I saw this on a BBS tonight. Not for the faint of >heart! > >Japan Times-April 16, 1997 "The government must >crack down on this disgusting craze of "Pumping", Don't believe everything you read on the net. This story is false, although related to a true story. You can check on the veracity of many urban legends at: http://www.snopes.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:34:09 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Dulson finds NRH From: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:07:01 EDT In a message dated 98-06-22 08:12:14 EDT, you write: << Karen Mc, I am glad that someone has spoken up/out about that wonderful song, Lakota. I have always loved it too. Actually, it seems to me that CHIARS does not get the respect it deserves. While I don't think it has the strength of Hejira or Hissing, I also think that it is a superb album in its own right. It's just that with Joni, the bar is so high, that if it's not a 10, but instead "only" a 7 or 7.5 (is this blasphemy??) we tend to dismiss it. How many artists actually hit a 7? Best, Maggie >> Consistently? With every album? *Not Many*, that's for sure! Anyway, I'd move all those that weren't 10's for me, to 8 and 8.5's. Yours in jonispirit, Karen Mc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:35:24 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Joni and her mom Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:12:48 -0700 From: Ginny McCord > Mary Grace wrote: > > As a mother, I think that it's a real tough job to harden your heart and > allow your children to just "be." Because at the same time you have your > love for them, you have your hopes and expectations for them and, > either consciously or not, there is always a bit of tangling your identity > with theirs. > > Ouch. > > MG Mary Grace: My own daughter's strong individuality tried my sanity until I learned, when she was 12, to bless her for her own individuality, and that just like me, she is on a unique road. That was 10 years ago to the day. At age 22, she accepts herself and therefore is far better able to make decisions, regardless of my opinion. I am the one who lovingly keeps her mouth shut. Ginny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:10:44 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Dulson finds NRH,consistency Karen Mc writes, on the subject of artist consistency ... >With every album? *Not Many*, that's for sure! Anyway, I'd move all >those that weren't 10's for me, to 8 and 8.5's. Oh I'd take that one step further and say *none* -- even such icons as The Beatles, Paul Simon, The Rolling Stones have had their clunkers. The thing I've always loved about these bands, as well as Joni was best said in the musical "L'il Abner", if I may paraphrase ... "Sho' honey, but what you got's left over's more than what most folks starts out with!" D Rowe > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:19:57 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Tribute album... In a message dated 98-06-24 12:23:47 EDT, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: << Now, I've actually liked a lot of Janet's music down the years (particularly the 80s stuff), but - however much of a "fan" she is of Joni's music - to cover that song is a bad idea. The lyrics are a personal account of an event in Joni's life, and the main thrust of the song (and its strength) lies within this. Am I being too touchy? >> Yes, you are, Jason. Under your theory, no one should have covered "Both Sides, Now" either. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:55:08 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Les' Great report on Wally - what a phone conversation!!!! At 11:49 PM 6/23/98 -0500, Steve wrote: >Les- thank you so much for a heartwarming report. Joniphiles - Just to set the record straight, this great report came from Jim, I believe - - not me. But I'll agree with you on the fact that it was indeed a great report! Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:28:08 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC "Fire and Rain" In a message dated 98-06-24 13:42:32 EDT, steve@psitech.com writes: << I mean, think about all > the horrendous covers of James Taylor's "Fire and Rain", which is a true > story about the death of the woman he loved in a plane crash As I recall, James has described "Fire and Rain" as about a woman named Suzanne whom he met in a mental institution, and who later killed herself, the break-up of his band "Flying Machine" and his heroine addiction.>> I believe you are correct, Steve. This also reminds me of one of the most adept headlines I've ever seen in a newspaper, and having won a few headline-writing awards myself, I think that's saying something. Anyway, I was in Charlotte, N.C. (an important factor because a headline- writer must always be aware of his/her audience and J.T. has always had a big following in North Carolina, one of his home states) in the late 1980s to cover the U.S. Olympic Festival for my newspaper in Jacksonville when the scoreboard at the new Charlotte Coliseum fell to the floor on the day of its grand opening, moments before one of the U.S. Olympic basketball teams was to be practicing there. The headline? "Sweet dreams and scoring machines in pieces on the ground" Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:31:46 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Debates, jmdl-style In a message dated 98-06-24 11:49:50 EDT, docnurse@VoyagerOnline.net writes: << Woo! I hereby nominate Antagonistic Al as our equivalent to Howard Stern for our jmdl community. Watchin' it from the wings, Marsha >> Really. An d you thought I was contentious. Ha! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:32:50 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Tribute album... Paul I writes, about covering personal songs ... >Yes, you are, Jason. >Under your theory, no one should have covered "Both Sides, Now" either. > I don't think Jason is putting forth the theory that covers sould never be done under any circumstances, here. His comment focused on songs stemming from deep personal experience. Now hold on there Obi-Wan, before you fire up that light saber -- I'm well aware that any/all songs can be considered as stemming from deep personal experience, and I know that's more true with Joni than many other artists. Personally, I'd rather see Joni covered more so that more folks could learn about her artistry. And I'm fairly confident that Jason would generally agree ... D Rowe > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:35:44 -0400 From: djp Subject: Re: Woodstock? At 08:14 AM 6/24/98 -0700, Steve Dulson wrote: >Who is going to buy tickets on Saturday?? I am. Does anyone know where I can get more info about this? Like when it starts, do I need a tent? etc. djp PS. I just checked out the web site. What is this "no food" shit? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:59:42 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Woodstock? djp wrote: > PS. I just checked out the web site. What is this "no food" shit? Uh Oh. I smell $5.00 hot dogs on the grill. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:13:11 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: Pumping (NJC) I didn't necessarily mean it was true, but I did find it very funny. <"Mark Domyancich" <>I saw this on a BBS tonight. Not for the faint of <>heart! <> <>Japan Times-April 16, 1997 "The government must <>crack down on this disgusting craze of "Pumping", < < Subject: Re: Woodstock? PS. I just checked out the web site. What is this "no food" shit? < Subject: Re: Re; joan Armatrading (NJC) On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 sherrie.good@chronicle.com wrote: > Doug and Mendi were talking about comparing Nina Simone to Joan > Armatrading. Nothing personal, because i dig both of you, but i have to > disagree. i just don't hear it. BUT!!! if you really want to hear someone > who sounds so much like Joan it will blow you away, check out Sloan > Wainwright. How about a trio- Joan, Sloan and Ms. Simone? - -bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 20:30:26 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Metaphorical Autobiography (was JONI MOTHER'S DAY) Peg O'Connell died today She was a cheeky girl A flirt They just stuffed her in a hole Surely to God you'd think at least some bells should ring One day I'm gonna die here too And they'll plant me in the dirt Like some lame bulb that never blooms Come any spring Not any spring Joni Mitchell Magdalene Laundries (last verse) Al, In terms emotive, poetic lyrical content, Joni not only blooms here...but she blossoms, she SHINES, she reminds us that she is truely a giant, a master lyricist. I choke up when I hear this verse...the bluntness of a glamourless burial, the outrage at the lack of ceremony, the resignation to our eventual passing, and the poetic imageries and analogies, all working together, conspire to produce a mood, a sadness, and a feeling of helplessness. Its the final paragraph of the last chapter of horrible modern-day tale of abuse, and one that she has discussed in depth (listen to the Just Ice concert on tape tree#2). That you can extrapolate a metaphorical autobiography from this is truely imagination in overdrive. Not that that's a bad thing, those exercises sometimes lead to interesting revelations. But I just don't see the fit here. The lyrics work perfectly to tell the a story, I doubt she had much else in mind at the time she wrote it. -Kenny Al Date wrote: > > Magdalene Laundries is Joni's metaphorical autobiography. > > > Just like that lame bulb, she has had a hard time blooming > in any Spring. > > --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:51:16 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: NJC Waterbug Sherrie mentioned the very fine Waterbug record label. Check out their website - www.waterbug.com - the sampler CDs are all 70+ minutes and cost $5 apiece. They have a great reputation in the folk world. Waterbug also distributes several artists not on the label, including English poet Les Barker, one of the funniest men on the planet. Best, ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:52:23 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Joni's no dino I just realized that Joni Mitchell is the ONLY 'classic' pop music person I really like. I TOTALLY HATE dinosaurs like the Stones or Led Zep or Neil Young. (I mean I hate them now, not the stuff they did in the late 60s.) Currently I enjoy the trends of pop music: punk, postpunk, techno. But I ALWAYS like Joni, then and now. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:51:19 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira and the Bass In a message dated 6/24/98 1:39:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bmcd@aol.com writes: << My understanding, correct me if I"m wrong one of you musicians, but she does this with her VG-8, right? >> I thought, but could be wrong, that she said she plays the bass lines on her Roland, or other such keyboard. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:49:58 -0400 From: Marsha Doyle Subject: Re: Debates, jmdl-style IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-06-24 11:49:50 EDT, docnurse@VoyagerOnline.net writes: > > << > Woo! I hereby nominate Antagonistic Al as our equivalent > to Howard Stern for our jmdl community. > > Watchin' it from the wings, > Marsha >> > > Really. An d you thought I was contentious. Ha! > Paul I I see you more as our resident Don Rickles, Paul. ;-) Marshamouth (my name from grades 7-9) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:58:01 -0700 From: davina@pacificsw.com (Davina Greenstein) Subject: RE: Joni's no dino Jan wrote: I TOTALLY HATE dinosaurs like the Stones or Led Zep or Neil Young. (I mean I hate them now, not the stuff they did in the late 60s.) I would have to segregate Neil Young from the rest of your stated pack o' dino's. He's one of my favorites...if you liked him back in the 60's, how could you not love his Harvest Moon album/CD he released a few years back. It's wonderful classic Neil. np: my keyboard - ---------- From: jan gyn[SMTP:jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 1998 1:52 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni's no dino I just realized that Joni Mitchell is the ONLY 'classic' pop music person I really like. I TOTALLY HATE dinosaurs like the Stones or Led Zep or Neil Young. (I mean I hate them now, not the stuff they did in the late 60s.) Currently I enjoy the trends of pop music: punk, postpunk, techno. But I ALWAYS like Joni, then and now. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:58:33 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Metaphors, Similes and the Artist's Intention I shall now unveil my personal pet-peevishness, and remind the list that the line quoted is, in fact *not* a metaphor, but a *simile*. I quite agree though, that Al Date's interpretation of "autobiography" is spurious. Adopting the critical position of the artist's intention is to talk nonsense on a variety of levels. One, how can you know the artist's intention? Two, words are simply the signifiers of an objective reality that none of us can see. It is language itself that makes this impossible. It is not our own lives we understand, only the words we use to describe it, so past the point that we intend to use language to communicate, intention is simply a consruct created by language itself. And if we are to live in this conceptual illusion informed by language, wouldn't we all rather live such a poetic illusion that the great artists can create for us? I trust I make myself obscure ... and yes, if you're wondering about my earlier posts, I'm just taking this opportunity to tell the world that I did, in fact, pay attention in all those Philosophy and Literature classes that my parents paid for! :-) D Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:59:43 -0400 From: Tortorici@exchange.conference-board.org Subject: my woodstock article from today's ATN Legends Reed, Mitchell Sign On For Woodstock Revisited Lou Reed, Joni Mitchell join concert veterans Pete Townshend and Richie Havens for 'Day In The Garden.' Contributing Editors Frank Tortorici and Randy Reiss report: The 30-year anniversary of a certain legendary, generation-defining concert is still a year away, but apparently it's none too early to celebrate the spirit of Woodstock. Having recruited punk-rock godfather Lou Reed, California-rock veteran Don Henley, reggae torchbearers Ziggy Marley & the Melody Makers and original Woodstock veterans Pete Townshend, Richie Havens and Ten Years After, the Bethel Development Corporation and GF Entertainment have announced a concert event entitled "A Day in the Garden," to be held Aug. 14-15 on the site of the original 1969 Woodstock festival in Bethel, Sullivan County, N.Y. "We are rededicating the most famous music site in the world," said Danny Socolof, the concert's executive producer. "The challenge was to compose a lineup that would speak to the impeccable pedigree of the site. I think the stars on the lineup announced [Tuesday] exceed all of our expectations." Reed, Henley, Marley and the others have been added to the bill alongside previously announced performers including Fleetwood Mac singer Stevie Nicks and folk-rock legend Joni Mitchell (who wrote the original concert's anthem "Woodstock" in 1969 without ever having performed at the show). Billed as the first large-scale organized concert with headline talent to be held at the site in 29 years, "A Day in the Garden" will span two days and feature displays of '60s memorabilia along with seminars and workshops on the era. There also will be a crafts fair and specialty food kiosks. A smaller concert on the original site -- featuring such performers as Victoria Williams, Soul Asylum, the Jayhawks and original Woodstock act Melanie - -- took place in summer 1994, while the more large-scale Woodstock '94 concert - - featuring more contemporary acts such as Green Day -- was held in neighboring Saugerties, N.Y. The money raised from "A Day in the Garden" will go to the Gerry Foundation, an organization dedicated to improving the economy in Sullivan County. In addition, the organizers have a long-range plan to hold other concerts at the site. "We are contemplating a bright and long future for this site, but we are squarely focused on the success of this event," Socolof said. Gary Bongiovanni, editor of the concert-industry trade magazine Pollstar, said he thinks that the organizers of any future concerts on the site shouldn't strictly rely on Woodstock nostalgia to bring in concert-goers. "I don't know the condition of the site now and I'm unfamiliar with the geography of the area," Bongiovanni said. "But if it is really far away and traffic conditions are terrible, they might have trouble drawing people to the site on a regular basis." Socolof, though, was more concerned with this summer's event, preferring to put off speculation about future shows until a later date. "We want to produce a gracious few days for our guests and superstar talent," he said. "We also want to honor what happened in Bethel 29 years ago." While the original Woodstock came about as more of a spontaneous gathering of massive proportions -- drawing from 300,000 to 400,000 people -- the Woodstock tribute is expected to be thoroughly planned and considerably smaller in scale. Initial plans call for a limited attendance of 30,000 people a day. "The scope and scale of the two events are entirely different," Socolof said. "We're not putting on a huge show. We're managing things to a scale that can be done professionally. It's an entirely different animal." The idea was to book acts that were important in rock n' roll and would also complement the legacy of the site, Socolof added. "[T]his is not Woodstock redux," he said. "We respect what happened 29 years ago and extended invitations to many artists who had performed there. Our goal was to create a great, compelling live concert for 1998." According to Socolof, there is a theme that unites the performers each day. Friday's lineup -- Don Henley, Stevie Nicks, Ziggy Marley & the Melody Makers and Ten Years After -- consists of artists who "have made [or] are still making vital contributions to rock 'n' roll." Saturday's lineup -- Pete Townshend, Joni Mitchell, Lou Reed and Richie Havens -- is made up of what Socolof called "poet laureates of rock 'n' roll." When asked how the decidedly urban rock of Lou Reed fit into the overall natural theme of the concert, Socolof said that the legendary Velvet Underground frontman was important to have at the concert because of his stature in rock 'n' roll. "Lou brings a cool edge to the group," Socolof explained. "He pushes himself and he pushes his audience. We think he perfectly complements the lineup. " 'A Day in the Garden' is inspired by the organic nature of the surrounding area," Socolof continued, "which is some of the most beautiful farm country in the world, and by the song 'Woodstock,' which Joni wrote." Tickets for "A Day In The Garden" go on sale Saturday at 10 a.m. EDT through Ticketmaster at a cost of $69.98 per person per day. Those who can't score tickets need not worry about tying up the freeways of Upstate New York, as they will be able to access the proceedings live on the Web through infoseek.com. [ Wed., Jun 24, 1:28 PM EDT ] ARTIST INFO TODAY'S NEWS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 16:59:46 EDT From: kbarnicle@ensr.com Subject: JC: Chinese Cafe I have been listening for the past couple of weeks to Wild Things Run Fast! What a great album! I love Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody. I would like to know more about the Unchained Melody part. Like, who wrote is, recorded it, etc. At one point when Joni sings "You give your love so sweetly" It sounds to me like Carole King on the song "Will you still love me tomorrow?" (not sure if that is the song's title). Did Carole borrow from that song? Anything? Anyone? Thanks. Katie from the Cape ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:03:54 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: midwest In a message dated 6/24/98 8:57:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Cristi_Mitchell@hmco.com writes: << Hi- I'm just curious, is anyone else on the list living in the midwest? I live in Illinois - DeKalb to be exact. >> I'm in the Detroit area... Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:19:52 EDT From: Krofs@aol.com Subject: Woodstock I live in NY, not far from the original Woodstock site. The local radio station just announced that there will be a concert at the site on the weekend of August 17 and that Joni Mitchell will be playing on Saturday. Can anyone confirm or deny this? There are "unofficial" free concerts there every year. The land was recently purchased and the owner is planning on having organized concerts there. Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:36:09 EDT From: Denisongs@aol.com Subject: Joni in a small venue Hi all, I am in the process of brainstorming the idea of Joni in a small venue (approx 100 people) in the Philadelphia area. The more we discuss the viability of this, the more we see it as a possibility. I need to know who her booking agent is. I thought someone out there would know who to contact. The man I am dealing with has extensive experience with a variety of performers including Bob Dylan. I said I would gather initial info. The thought is that it could be timed near Woodstock as it is relatively nearby. The big question. Honestly, what would you pay for such a ticket. This is the bottom line. Thanks for your imput. Denise : ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:37:37 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: woodstock From: Heydoll123@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:37:48 EDT Does anyone know if Stevie is going to sing at Woodstock? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:42:30 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: woodstock USA Today From: IvoryWing@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:43:14 EDT according to the Life section of USA Today today... Yes ... it is a "similar" concert to Woodstock... along with Joni Mitchell...etc... Much Love!~Lily~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:56:18 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: woodstock At 03:37 PM 6/24/98 -0600, you wrote: >From: Heydoll123@aol.com >Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:37:48 EDT > >Does anyone know if Stevie is going to sing at Woodstock? > I dunno, did Stevie ever really know how to 'sing', period? (rimshot)... just kidding. I asked somebody in an adjoining cubicle who's into the Nixter and he grunted in the affirmative. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:56:06 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Joni As Barometer Don Sloan (donbvs@lightspeed.net) wrote: <> This is great! After believing for so long, "Love's a repetitious danger", now I can just turn on my Joni barometer, and voila! (or viola, as the case may be) Watch out all you male Joni-lovers of the world, Ashara is going back to "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"! :-D Great to be back on-list after being away. I missed you guys. Welcome to all you newbies that have joined in the past week and a half or so. (I'm still reading last Friday's posts.) Hugs, Ashara {who is afraid she'll *never* be caught up!} www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:57:07 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: JONI MOTHER'S DAY al!! "its all in the lyrics....for anyone to see?" i bet that's pretty close to what charlie manson said to squeaky and the gang! didn't make it true. it is the tone of this that really irritates me al! because the implication is so arrogant. in other words, if we don't see this as you do we haven't looked closely enough? do you really mean to come across so hostile and so arrogant as that? i doubt it. and neither do i. your comments are provocative and of some interest, even if i happen to think they are insipid and presented with an "in your face" type of arrogance that i am going to assume you do not intend. - - ric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:05:32 -0400 From: Marsha Doyle Subject: (NJC) Re: woodstock Heydoll asked: > Does anyone know if Stevie is going to sing at Woodstock? I think she is just going for the $5.00 frankfurters. Shutin' up now, Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:19:14 EDT From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: joni no dino (smartass reply: really njc) i thought you were going to say that joni's the only artist that hasn't done a song on barney's new albumn. the anti-purple dinosaur clause in her contract doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:38:48 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: JONI MOTHER'S DAY RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: > al!! "its all in the lyrics....for anyone to see?" > > i bet that's pretty close to what charlie manson said to squeaky and > the gang! > didn't make it true. > > it is the tone of this that really irritates me al! because the > implication > is so arrogant. in other words, if we don't see this as you do we > haven't > looked closely enough? do you really mean to come across so hostile > and so > arrogant as that? i doubt it. and neither do i. > > your comments are provocative and of some interest, even if i happen > to think > they are insipid and presented with an "in your face" type of > arrogance that i > am going to assume you do not intend. > > - ric How hypocritical of you, ric. At least the man has not been abusive and mean to those that disagree with him.colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:52:45 -0700 From: Anne Madden Subject: Emmylou Joni Mitchell & Emmylou Harris are my two all time favourite singers. My favourite Emmylou CD's are Bluebird (she does a beautiful job on every single track). No Regrets is a Tom Rush song and Icy Blue Heart is a masterpiece, written by John Hiatt. (Bonnie Raiit does backup vocals and plays slide guitar). Thirteen is also very good. I have all of Emmy's CD's and a bunch of videos. Like Joni she is a huge talent and a very classy lady. I have recently discovered Iris Dement - she is very very good - is anyone familiar with her music? I first stumbled across her when I bought the soundtrack to the movie Horse Whisperer. On it she sings Whispering Pines. I liked her voice so much I bought her most recent CD called The Way I Should - it is great. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:08:26 -0200 From: mmacphee@glinx.com (Hayley MacPhee) Subject: WOODSTOCK >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:00:10 -0200 >To: joni@some.org >From: mmacphee@glinx.com (Hayley MacPhee) >Subject: WOODSTOCK > >does anyone know if/where I can purchase tickets to Woodstock from Nova >Scotia? Is there a number I can call or something? Any other helpful info? >Thanx >Hayley :~) > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #218 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?