From: owner-jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org (jinglejangle-digest) To: jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org Subject: jinglejangle-digest V7 #52 Reply-To: jinglejangle@smoe.org Sender: owner-jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jinglejangle-digest Saturday, April 17 2004 Volume 07 : Number 052 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [MLL] You Guys... [Bopst@aol.com] [MLL] oh yea [Bopst@aol.com] Re: [MLL] oh yea [Donna Taylor ] [MLL] April 18 show at TT the Bear's [rkb@rachelkramerbussel.com] Re: [MLL] oh yea ["Brian J. Bowe" ] RE: [MLL] You Guys... ["Dino Dimuro" ] [MLL] SAD NEWS [Bopst@aol.com] [MLL] Listening To [Luke Benfey ] Re: [MLL] oh yea [Donna Taylor ] RE: [MLL] SAD NEWS ["Dino Dimuro" ] Re: [MLL] on more for critics oh yea ["Jill" ] [MLL] New releases of note ["Steve Gilmore" ] Re: [MLL] on more for critics oh yea ["Cinnamon Brunmier" Subject: Re: [MLL] oh yea Cracked me up that he unknowingly critiqued his own review......He wrote "the effect is much like wrapping sparkling jewelry in dull newsprint" - how true. Your music is the sparkling jewelry wrapped in his dull newsprint. Critics write reviews because they aren't talented enough to write poetry, lyrics or books. Their words will never have any lasting effect. Bopst@aol.com wrote: And one other thing....I think the Stephen M.Deusner guy mainly writes reviews on books...Perhaps it would have been a better idea for pitchfork to have asked a music critic to have done the review....There is a big differece.....You have to know how to listen..... Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:54:55 -0400 (EDT) From: rkb@rachelkramerbussel.com Subject: [MLL] April 18 show at TT the Bear's I just got this email (sorry so late) and wanted to let Boston area folks know: http://www.legallove.org/news.html The show is at 8:45, $10 minimum donation, 18+ with Ad Frank, Paula Kelley, Mary Lou Lord, Annie Clark, Britta Wolfrum, Liz Stahler (is that our list member Britta?) - --- with guest speakers Senator Jarrett Barrios and Representative Michael E. Festa - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Rachel, I was at a friends looking at the list as i am not on it (could you sign me up by the way??). Mary Lou is playing a show at TT the Bear's in Boston April 18th, this Sunday night. It's a benefit for marriage equality. More info. can be found at LegalLove.Org I was wondering if you could post it on the site, or sign me up to the list and i could post it. THanks! thank you. Lizzy E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:05:27 -0400 From: "Brian J. Bowe" Subject: Re: [MLL] oh yea On 4/16/04 12:29 PM, "Donna Taylor" wrote: > Critics write reviews because they aren't talented enough to write poetry, > lyrics or books. > Their words will never have any lasting effect. I'm sure Lester Bangs will be interested to hear that... I'm not defending the particular review in question, but to negate the entire field of rock crit just because of a review you don't agree with is fucking daft. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:43:45 -0700 From: "Dino Dimuro" Subject: RE: [MLL] You Guys... >I can think of about 250 thousand rea$on$ why this record isn't quite what GNS was....< Mary Lou, THIS is the album that should have been called "Real." It is so much more intimate than GNS. It flows, it works. Except maybe on Inhibition Twist, your voice is VERY clear to me. Love, Dino (not a music reviewer, but actually used to be one!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:41:14 EDT From: Bopst@aol.com Subject: [MLL] SAD NEWS Kevin and I just heard that Ray Condo Passed away yeaterday...Big big sad news...He was awesome... Anyway, yea, I certainly agree that not all music critics are frustrated and talentless...Many great music journalists are also great musicians and songwriters...Many are so good that the writing is art in itself...Especially with Lester Bangs ...But there are so many of these snotty nosed little geeky snobs who really have no right to discuss what they like or do not like about certain records.I know everyone is entitled to an opinion, but there are certain boundries and places that some of these writers cross without the credentials or rites to those passages...There are clues that I look for when reading some of these reviews as to what the writer might like... or...be like....This guy had me going for a while, until that absolutely retarded line where he said the record sounded....*UNFORTUNATELY*...like and early Shawn Colvin record...That's when I lost all respect for him and what he was trying to say about *my* record...I dont think there is ANYTHING "unfortunate" about Shawn Colvin's earlier works nor her recent works...She's wonderful...No, maybe not "cool" or "indie" or any of those tags, but in my book, she is and has always been and always will be "the shit".... I have never been one of those category snobs that are a dime a dozen in this business.....You know, those (usually record store kids) that will latch on to the latest rave wether they really like it or not...Because, some ass hole i n Williamsbrg said it was cool....I don't give a shit what label puts out the record....I don't care if the record cost a dollar to make or a million dollars...I dont give a shit if the artist is white, black, yellow, 14 or 82...I dont care if the artist is a junkie or a nun....What's up with the songs? That's all I care about at the end of the day..I think Nick is one of the most talented guitar players I've ever known, so for this writer to call my "backing band" dull...Well, it was mainly Nick...Guitar bass piano...Um...Nick Soloman dull? gIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK BUDDY... oK...I'm on a lap top at Retro Vixen and it's really slow right now...I'm starting to go off on a tangent...Sorry guys...Hehe......For the most part though, I have been very lucky regarding how far I have gotten in this insane industry with very little...The critics have been very kind to me...I think Lester Bangs would have hated my stuff, but hopefully he still would have been my boyfriend... - -Mary Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:36:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Luke Benfey Subject: [MLL] Listening To My play list over the last few weeks has been pretty heavy with: Songs:Ohia (aka Jason Molina), the Mountain Goats, Azure Ray, Magnetic Fields (the new album, 'i'), Freezepop and Barcelona (these last two are a little different, kind of a synthpop sort of sound. But a lot of fun.)... Probably the most obscure of that bunch is Songs:Ohia, but I heartily recommend it, especially to any Mark Kozelek/Red House Painters fans out there. - Luke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:18:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Donna Taylor Subject: Re: [MLL] oh yea I humbly bow to you, Mr. Bowe. I stand corrected. Lester Bangs and Lisa Robinson were 2 of my favorites. Those two made Led Zeppelin who they were. They were rock writers (I don't classify them as critics) who were/are exceptional. Thank you for pointing it out. signed - fucking daft Donna "Brian J. Bowe" wrote: On 4/16/04 12:29 PM, "Donna Taylor" wrote: > Critics write reviews because they aren't talented enough to write poetry, > lyrics or books. > Their words will never have any lasting effect. I'm sure Lester Bangs will be interested to hear that... I'm not defending the particular review in question, but to negate the entire field of rock crit just because of a review you don't agree with is fucking daft. Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:37:39 -0700 From: "Dino Dimuro" Subject: RE: [MLL] SAD NEWS >There are clues that I look for when reading some of these reviews as to what the writer might like...< Yes... Captain Beefheart's Magic Band re-formed and put out a CD, and you wondered if half the reviewers had ever HEARD a Captain Beefheart record. One writer complained about the inclusion of a guitar solo in "Alice In Blunderland," somehow missing the small but pertinent fact that THE ORIGINAL SONG HAD A GUITAR SOLO ALREADY IN IT! To criticize something because it recalls Shawn Colvin? That's a new one... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:14:19 -0400 From: "Jill" Subject: Re: [MLL] on more for critics oh yea - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Taylor" > Critics write reviews because they aren't talented enough to write poetry, lyrics or books. > Their words will never have any lasting effect. Ok, I have to differ here... it takes a highly smart, well-read (well-listened), cultured individual to be a critic. And they do write books -- dance critics, music critics, art critics, theatre critics. Amazing books. And amazing reviews. And they are researched by scholars and others and studied by artists and scholars and others and they are remembered. I don't really know the music world, but in the art and dance and theatre world: Lucy Lippard, Elizabeth Zimmerman, Alisa Solomon, Jill Johnston (she's a little weird, but hey she did write well,) Susan Sonteg, I am blanking on so many people... Marsha Segal, Cindy Carr, Ben Brantley (he can be mean and I think that's unecessary, but he does write incredibly well,) hey, Mallarme... music critics can't be that different can they? In addition to writing books, many critics are college professors and they go out and see everything there is to see. They do their research and they enjoy it, too. :) (Whether or not they have another life, that is another story...) And no, don't even *think* about it being true that you teach it because you can't do it yourself -- this is *not* true at all. No department will hire you if you cannot do (well) with excellent credentials what you teach. Unless it is a bad department... at a poorly rated college... anyway, you get what I am saying. I have a Ph.D. in performance studies (NYU) and many people unfortunately believe these legends about review writing and about teaching in the arts. If it were not for reviewers, we would not in many case have a travelogue through many of the arts. Sometimes reviewers' words are the only evidence we have left (tho not so for recorded music) about certain events through history -- performance leaves no object, no document behind; when it's over, it's just over. Anyway, as an academic, I know how much work it takes to write a quality review. That being said, the review being discussed SUCKED! For reasons already pointed out and many more. And the reviewer does not come across as a well-informed reviewer (let alone a book-writer.) Further, that review came from an internet site -- the internet is a catch-all. You can find internet reviews from anyone who wants to write one. Unless you are reading reviews on a reputable web site, you cannot really rely on the anonymous files of the internet to provide quality reviews. I mean, you can go to Amazon.com and write a review -- no one will question your credentials. Call me an idiot, or hair-splitter, (I have many split ends, been meaning to get a hair cut,) but I needed to say that for my own integrity. I can't have people believing in the anti-intellectual and anti-artistic myths this culture propigates, can I? I must resist. We all must resist -- if you think I'm paranoid, look who is in the White House and then tell me not to be afraid... Jill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:29:06 -0500 From: "Steve Gilmore" Subject: [MLL] New releases of note I'd also add: Lucy Kaplansky - The Red Thread Ani DiFranco - Educated Guess Mindy Smith - One Moment More Sarah Harmer - All of Our Names Kate Jacobs - You Call That Dark Patty Griffin - Impossible Dream Alecia Nugent - Alecia Nugent (bluegrass) Jen Chapin (daughter of Harry) - Linger Glad to see Nellie McKay's CD on the list! That girl is clearly wise beyond her years. Gosh, she's only NINETEEN!!! While the Doris-Day-meets-Eminem description is accurate, in terms of current musicians, I say she's Alanis Morissette/Avril Lavigne meets Sarah Harmer. Steve Gilmore Charlotte, NC USA Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:43:49 EDT From: Snsetblaze@aol.com Subject: Re: [MLL] Emm Gryner? and also Listening To This is fun - reading what others are listening to. Thanks for the great question. I also like Emm Gryner. Another CD I just picked up over the weekend is Toby Lightman (at the same time I picked up Baby Blue which I will listen to tonight.) Lightman has a fantastic voice. She's a little bit rock and a little bit folk and pop - sort of like Liz Phair (the old Liz Phair before she hit top 40) but with a voice type more like a cross of Sheryl Crow and Nellie Furtado or Fiona Apple. She is actually a friend of my boss and I had known about her vaguely, but I did not make the connection tho ugh when I picked up the album until I started listening to the cd. Then the lightbulb went off. Damn I could have gotten the cd for free. Another singer if you like it a little more bluesy - Rory Block. I bought Last Fair Deal last month but I think she has something new coming out. She was actually at Newport with Mary Lou in the singer-songwriter circle 2 or 3 years ago. Some of her music does have a bit more of a religious slant - she will do old spirituals if she feels like it one moment and a country stomp the next. Other recent cd's I'd recommend: Jonatha Brookes' Back in the Circus Shannon McNally - Jukebox Sparrows. Folk/jazz and pop. Tantric - After We Go - This is a bit harder rock - almost a jam band and is probably right at home on a classic rock station but not on a rock station that plays Incubus, Fred Durst, etc., Linkin Park, etc . Sort of like a Rusted Root without the heavy drumming. Some of the band used to be the band Days of the New. Laura Love - Welcome to Pagen Place. She is very hard to describe. She can be a bit political. A blurb I saw described her as Afro-Celtic-Folk-Rock, which is appropriate. And she yodels when she sings - a lot - and extremely well. You would not believe how well yodeling and rock go together until you've heard her do it. This is a good album but if you want to listen to her best, try Octaroon or even the compilation put out by Putmayo (??) Records. Toshi Reagon - self-titled. She's a daughter of one of the Sweet Honey in the Rock singers. I'd describer her as folk rock. Jem - Finally Woken - this is a mix of styles with a singer reminiscent of Beth Orton or Dido. So far I like her better than Dido - the music is more interesting - but not as much as Beth Orton. Nellie McKay - Get Away From Me - A female singer who mix of styles from 40s caberet to rap to trip hop. This is a double album. The wierdest a nd funniest thing I have heard in a while. Groovelilly - Are We There Yet is their current release. I have seen this band a couple of times live and may see them again this weekend. Groovelilly is a trio fronted by Valerie Vigoda who sings amazingly and plays a mean electric violin. Her husband, the keyboard player, is also a fantastic singer and writer. The music is described as "eclectic folk." It treads the line between folk and pop (but is nothing like top 40 pop). TV and print ads for the army on CNN feature this band because Valerie used to be a lieutenant in the army so you may have seen her. Girlyman - this group is like the Indigo Girls with an Indigo Guy. I j ust saw them open for Mary Fahl a couple of weeks ago. Lastly, Antigone Rising. An all female band that rocks. Their latest release is a live album - Traveling Circus. I am partial to them because they are good (I've seen them live three times) and because they are from NJ near where I live. Well I'd better get back to studying. Alycia - -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 00:18:12 -0700 From: "Cinnamon Brunmier" Subject: Re: [MLL] on more for critics oh yea to be fair, pitchforkmedia.com is a pretty well-known music website. It doesn't mean that the people who write the reviews know their heads from their elbows...but it's also not some blog by a 16 year old. It is indeed legit. I just don't get that worked up about reviews when I read them -- whether they are reviewing me or a friend. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. A critic or reviewer is merely attempting to write from some "objective" area of comprehension in order to be understood by the widest amount of readers. At the same time, each of us is entirely human...and no matter how objective we try to be, we always bring our subjective selves to the table. Great music lies in the ear of the listener. To get all up in arms because someone wrote a poor review of someone we love doesn't really show an objective (or even slightly objective) view of the work. As my mother once told me, you can't please all the people all the time, and you can please some of the people some of the time. but the person you should really care about pleasing is YOURSELF. Critiques can be helpful. Even when they are written by some twat with an email account and an mp3 player. You don't have to agree. But see if there's anything inside the schlock that you can use. This guy is no Lester Bangs. Or even, for that matter, Jayson Blair. He's a faceless reviewer who doesn't like Shawn Colvin. And he's entitled to his opinion. Did he miss the point? Yeah, probably. Is he a tool? Yeah, possibly. But do flames need to be thrown merely because we disagree with him? I dunno...to me debate is the heart of democracy. XoX--Cin - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jill To: jinglejangle@smoe.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [MLL] on more for critics oh yea ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Taylor" > Critics write reviews because they aren't talented enough to write poetry, lyrics or books. > Their words will never have any lasting effect. Ok, I have to differ here... it takes a highly smart, well-read (well-listened), cultured individual to be a critic. And they do write books -- dance critics, music critics, art critics, theatre critics. Amazing books. And amazing reviews. And they are researched by scholars and others and studied by artists and scholars and others and they are remembered. I don't really know the music world, but in the art and dance and theatre world: Lucy Lippard, Elizabeth Zimmerman, Alisa Solomon, Jill Johnston (she's a little weird, but hey she did write well,) Susan Sonteg, I am blanking on so many people... Marsha Segal, Cindy Carr, Ben Brantley (he can be mean and I think that's unecessary, but he does write incredibly well,) hey, Mallarme... music critics can't be that different can they? In addition to writing books, many critics are college professors and they go out and see everything there is to see. They do their research and they enjoy it, too. :) (Whether or not they have another life, that is another story...) And no, don't even *think* about it being true that you teach it because you can't do it yourself -- this is *not* true at all. No department will hire you if you cannot do (well) with excellent credentials what you teach. Unless it is a bad department... at a poorly rated college... anyway, you get what I am saying. I have a Ph.D. in performance studies (NYU) and many people unfortunately believe these legends about review writing and about teaching in the arts. If it were not for reviewers, we would not in many case have a travelogue through many of the arts. Sometimes reviewers' words are the only evidence we have left (tho not so for recorded music) about certain events through history -- performance leaves no object, no document behind; when it's over, it's just over. Anyway, as an academic, I know how much work it takes to write a quality review. That being said, the review being discussed SUCKED! For reasons already pointed out and many more. And the reviewer does not come across as a well-informed reviewer (let alone a book-writer.) Further, that review came from an internet site -- the internet is a catch-all. You can find internet reviews from anyone who wants to write one. Unless you are reading reviews on a reputable web site, you cannot really rely on the anonymous files of the internet to provide quality reviews. I mean, you can go to Amazon.com and write a review -- no one will question your credentials. Call me an idiot, or hair-splitter, (I have many split ends, been meaning to get a hair cut,) but I needed to say that for my own integrity. I can't have people believing in the anti-intellectual and anti-artistic myths this culture propigates, can I? I must resist. We all must resist -- if you think I'm paranoid, look who is in the White House and then tell me not to be afraid... Jill ------------------------------ End of jinglejangle-digest V7 #52 *********************************