From: owner-jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org (jinglejangle-digest) To: jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org Subject: jinglejangle-digest V5 #58 Reply-To: jinglejangle@smoe.org Sender: owner-jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jinglejangle-digest Thursday, April 18 2002 Volume 05 : Number 058 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [MLL] Friends and Fans, Lend Me Your Ears [Recordings@aol.com] [MLL] on fandom ["Rachel Kramer Bussel" ] [MLL] from Cinnamon ["Rachel Kramer Bussel" ] Re: RE: [MLL] Friends and Fans, Lend Me Your Ears [Recordings@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:31:25 -0400 From: Recordings@aol.com Subject: [MLL] Friends and Fans, Lend Me Your Ears I liked Rachel's essay on being a friend and fan of Mary Lou. The dichotomy she explores is quite true: if you ARE fortunate enough to become friends with performers or people in the public eye, you are usually expected to treat them as a friend and NOT as their public image. It's as if they're thinking: "Okay, I'll let YOU in, but in return you must provide a break from all these other people who idolize me." For example, I've always liked the work of actress Laura San Giacomo ("Sex, Lies, and Videotape," "Just Shoot Me") and I got to know her when our kids attended the same school. She's a sweet, funny, and very down-to-earth lady, but she seems to deliberately avoid the spotlight when not performing - she dresses down, stays in the background, and tends to disappear when recognized. I have always wanted to tell her how much I liked her work, but she senses this and almost telepathically warns me NOT TO GO THERE. We discuss the entertainment business in a distant way, but I always wish I could break the barrier just once and act like a fan. Like Rachel said, you gain something but you lose something, too. I also have this problem when I'm working on movies and I know my supervisor is hob-nobbing with someone I admire. "You see them every day," I say. "Get me an autograph!" But the supervisor will say: "It's not like that, I just can't ask for an autograph." So the only way I get one is if I show up myself and they say: "Sorry, Mr. Famous Star, but Dino is a maniac fan of yours and he wants you to sign his poster..." The cool thing about Mary Lou is, she really allows you to be both a friend and a fan at the same time. I've heard countless people say that when they meet her at shows, they feel like she's their new best friend, and they can't believe how much attention she gives them. They began as fans, and now they feel like friends too. When Mary Lou visited my editing room, I showed her exactly how many pictures I had of her on the walls (4 or 5, plus a vinyl record.) This would creep out your average celeb, but Mary Lou (being such a fan herself) understands and takes it in stride. Once I'd wanted to give her a Peter Case album, but told her I was afraid to hand it to her up on stage in front of everyone. "Why not?" she asked. "I've done that!" Mary Lou said she first started meeting large numbers of her fans just before GNS was released, and she was pleased to discover what nice, intelligent people they were... so perhaps that has something to do with it. Just as an aside... there was a girl named Myra who used to contribute to the aol ML folder. She was a Tori Amos fanatic, and got the chance to meet her idol in a meet & greet line after a show. Though the fans were warned that Tori would just be breezing past, Ms. Amos actually stopped and hugged Myra, and told her she had beautiful eyes. But as Tori was getting into her car, Myra tearfully screamed out: "TORI, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU MEAN TO US!" I always thought that was not cool - Tori had explicitly broken the fan wall for Myra, but she shoved it right back in place with her psycho-fan outburst. Oh, well... Dino ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:52:28 -0400 From: "Rachel Kramer Bussel" Subject: [MLL] on fandom I think what Dino said about everyone being a fan is true. Just because you're famous or have fans yourself doesn't mean you are not also a fan of someone else. We all know that Mary Lou is a fan of tons of artists and covers their songs, etc. One of my favorite bands (who are coming to NY in May!), Sleater-Kinney, have dealt with this dynamic in a lot of their songs, and there are two lines in "The End of You" that go: I am not the captain I am just another fan and I think it's really true. I personally can't imagine *not* being a fan of the artists, musicians, writers, etc. who I like. Pop culture is a huge part of my life, I would even say an essential part, and for me being a fan is part of that. rachel _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:07:24 -0400 From: "Rachel Kramer Bussel" Subject: [MLL] from Cinnamon From: "Cinnamon Brunmier" To: , I totally agree with what you say about Mary Lou. I think it is because she is such a fan of music herself that she can appreciate (& hope for, honestly) that same type of joy in others. In regards to your Tori comment, however, I think you are being a bit hypocritical. You mention that you want your superior, who is friends with a celeb, to "treat them like a fan" and garner you an autograph. Not only would that be inappropriate on their part, it would be downright CREEPY. I am pretty good friends with several "celebs" which I guess is cool, sometimes, in terms of getting into clubs without waiting in line, or always getting your drinks paid for. But, honestly, the times I like best are when we're are hanging out at home, just playing Charades or swimming & laughing. When it's not about them being famous and no one comes up & interrupts the conversation to have their photo taken. And if we never went to another club together, I'd be just as happy. I once had a friend ask me to get an autograph from one of my musician friends (we'll call the artist J) for his wall at work (he was an IT person for Tower Records in Sacramento). I was actually offended that he would even ask me to do that. He knew my relationship with J was much deeper than that. I wasn't J's AGENT or Publicist! I was his friend. And J knows that I love & respect him both a musician and a friend. But an autograph many times is either to "prove" you met someone or to increase the value of the item for you to ebay. Why in the world would I ask one of my good friends to do that? Anyone who is willing to put themselves on the line to talk to someone they admire is showing their human side. And that is endearing. But to compromise the relationships of a friend for your own gain isn't really endearing at all. I think that if you just talked to Laura about what she's up to, she might share some stories of her work. And it would open the door for you to say, "You know, I always thought the work you did in sex, lies was really breakthru." It's not gushing, it's honest. And that's not creepy at all. - --C - -----Original Message----- From: owner-jinglejangle@smoe.org [mailto:owner-jinglejangle@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Recordings@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:31 AM To: jinglejangle@smoe.org Subject: [MLL] Friends and Fans, Lend Me Your Ears I liked Rachel's essay on being a friend and fan of Mary Lou. The dichotomy she explores is quite true: if you ARE fortunate enough to become friends with performers or people in the public eye, you are usually expected to treat them as a friend and NOT as their public image. It's as if they're thinking: "Okay, I'll let YOU in, but in return you must provide a break from all these other people who idolize me." For example, I've always liked the work of actress Laura San Giacomo ("Sex, Lies, and Videotape," "Just Shoot Me") and I got to know her when our kids attended the same school. She's a sweet, funny, and very down-to-earth lady, but she seems to deliberately avoid the spotlight when not performing - she dresses down, stays in the background, and tends to disappear when recognized. I have always wanted to tell her how much I liked her work, but she senses this and almost telepathically warns me NOT TO GO THERE. We discuss the entertainment business in a distant way, but I always wish I could break the barrier just once and act like a fan. Like Rachel said, you gain something but you lose something, too. I also have this problem when I'm working on movies and I know my supervisor is hob-nobbing with someone I admire. "You see them every day," I say. "Get me an autograph!" But the supervisor will say: "It's not like that, I just can't ask for an autograph." So the only way I get one is if I show up myself and they say: "Sorry, Mr. Famous Star, but Dino is a maniac fan of yours and he wants you to sign his poster..." The cool thing about Mary Lou is, she really allows you to be both a friend and a fan at the same time. I've heard countless people say that when they meet her at shows, they feel like she's their new best friend, and they can't believe how much attention she gives them. They began as fans, and now they feel like friends too. When Mary Lou visited my editing room, I showed her exactly how many pictures I had of her on the walls (4 or 5, plus a vinyl record.) This would creep out your average celeb, but Mary Lou (being such a fan herself) understands and takes it in stride. Once I'd wanted to give her a Peter Case album, but told her I was afraid to hand it to her up on stage in front of everyone. "Why not?" she asked. "I've done that!" Mary Lou said she first started meeting large numbers of her fans just before GNS was released, and she was pleased to discover what nice, intelligent people they were... so perhaps that has something to do with it. Just as an aside... there was a girl named Myra who used to contribute to the aol ML folder. She was a Tori Amos fanatic, and got the chance to meet her idol in a meet & greet line after a show. Though the fans were warned that Tori would just be breezing past, Ms. Amos actually stopped and hugged Myra, and told her she had beautiful eyes. But as Tori was getting into her car, Myra tearfully screamed out: "TORI, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU MEAN TO US!" I always thought that was not cool - Tori had explicitly broken the fan wall for Myra, but she shoved it right back in place with her psycho-fan outburst. Oh, well... Dino _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:35:42 -0400 From: Recordings@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: [MLL] Friends and Fans, Lend Me Your Ears >In regards to your Tori comment, however, I think you are being a bit hypocritical. You mention that you want your superior, who is friends with a celeb, to "treat them like a fan" and garner you an autograph. Not only would that be inappropriate on their part, it would be downright CREEPY.< Cinn, you made excellent points in your reply, but let me explain this one a bit further. My supervisor is not necessarily FRIENDS with celebs; we all work on films together, and the supervisor develops a "working relationship" with the stars or directors. But, at the same time, it is quite common at the end of the film to get posters and have them signed by the stars. What I meant to say is, at that point the supervisor is more comfortable having ME come in as a "fan" to request the autograph, than he is asking for it... but that doesn't mean he never does, or that it's creepy or inappropriate; it's an expected, ceremonial part of the process. I'm sure recording artists sign things at the studio the last couple of days too. ------------------------------ End of jinglejangle-digest V5 #58 *********************************