From: owner-jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org (jinglejangle-digest) To: jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org Subject: jinglejangle-digest V1 #50 Reply-To: jinglejangle@smoe.org Sender: owner-jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jinglejangle-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jinglejangle-digest Monday, March 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 050 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [MLL] MLL electric guitar [Recordings ] [MLL] electric guitar/sell out [Darren ] [MLL] Selling-out? ["Mark Anthony Miazga" ] [MLL] Re:Selling out, blah blah blah [LisaTski ] [MLL] New Subject [Kevin Wan ] Re: [MLL] New Subject [AWeiss4338 ] Re: [MLL] New Subject ["Matt P." ] [MLL] MLL words from the source [Drmchild10 ] Re: [MLL] New Subject [Darren ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 10:28:48 EST From: Recordings Subject: [MLL] MLL electric guitar << I don't know that she ever played electric guitar on a recording in the past,>> For the record: Mary Lou once told me that she played the electric lead guitar solo on the hard rock, KRS version of WESTERN UNION DESPERATE... except that it wasn't technically an electric guitar - it was her amplified acoustic through a fuzz box. Thanks to all who have rebutted the "Mary Lou is a sellout because GNS is not exactly the same as the EP that I like" argument. Artists have to go where their muse leads them. I myself never had any problem with Mary Lou not playing guitar on the CD because I know that Nick and Elliott worked under her guidance, and that actually SHAPING and ARRANGING those songs is a lot harder than just strumming the chords... and excuse me, but doesn't anyone consider Mary Lou's incredible voice an instrument? Following an artist means exactly that - not forcing them into the same exact mold every time out. If someone truly thinks Mary Lou is a sell-out who has betrayed her roots, then the time to hop off the train is NOW. Criticisim is legitimate but these childish tirades are pointless. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 11:20:07 From: Darren Subject: [MLL] electric guitar/sell out I'm not up to date on this topic, so please excuse any ignorance as just that. "Sell out" may mean different things to different people. To me, Sting is a sell out. I hated the fact that he released a "jazzy" album after The Police. Years later, turns out I love the album. I don't like what he's doing now, however. I feel he's doing what he's doing now, because it sells. It's a proven commodity. GNS hasn't been proven to be a huge money maker, so how could it be selling out? If Sheryl Crow had put out a Wednesday Night Music Club, to me, that would probably be selling out. She didn't. I applaud that move. There are some who probably say that because Mary Lou didn't record her stuff on the streets of Boston, that she's sold out. There are probably some who feel the fact that she's getting money for her music is selling out. I also know of a band who *tried* to sell out. It didn't work. It flopped. Some great music got recorded in the wrong style, and sadly will never be corrected! As for playing on her album... *Most* musicians want what's best. If they can't play what they hear in their head, they want someone who can or will. I know a band who's been recording for 15 or more years, and the bass player only played bass on about 3/4 of the recorded tracks because he doesn't think he can do the song justice. To me, that shows maturity, professionalism, and humility. Peace, Darren "It's hard to say you love someone, and it's hard to say you don't." - Justin Currie * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * http://www.spiritone.com/~darren/backpage.htm mailto:darren@spiritone.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:11:17 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark Anthony Miazga" Subject: [MLL] Selling-out? > Thanks to all who have rebutted the "Mary Lou is a sellout because GNS is not > exactly the same as the EP that I like" argument. Artists have to go where > their muse leads them. I myself never had any problem with Mary Lou not > playing guitar on the CD because I know that Nick and Elliott worked under her > guidance, and that actually SHAPING and ARRANGING those songs is a lot harder > than just strumming the chords... and excuse me, but doesn't anyone consider > Mary Lou's incredible voice an instrument? Following an artist means exactly > that - not forcing them into the same exact mold every time out. If someone > truly thinks Mary Lou is a sell-out who has betrayed her roots, then the time > to hop off the train is NOW. Criticisim is legitimate but these childish > tirades are pointless. No, I don't think this list thinks that any criticism of MLL is legitimate. The problem we are having is with semantics, and that's all. Some may say that MLL has sold out, others just say she's in a new direction. MLL has said herself that she taylored the new album in order to give her songs a fair shot on the radio, with that whole bathing suit metaphor. Let me repeat, she said so herself that she had taylored her songs to fit radio formats. I'm sorry, but we are all calling the same thing lots of different names. If you don't think she sold out, fine. If you do, fine. You're actually a lot more in agreement than you realize. Because it is a fact that MLL has changed her sound to gain more attention from radio stations (after all, she admits it), and it is a fact that she didn't play guitar on the album, and it is a really strong argument that the album was really slickly produced. If you don't want to say that's a sellout, then that's fine. The word does have some really negative connotations (and I'm not sure why the connotation are so negative; I really didn't attend it to be the greatest criticism of her when I called the album kind of a sellout. I do enjoy the album for the most part, although it's nowhere near her older material.) Anyway, this list really is jumping down anyone's throat who criticizes MLL at all. Remember, we're all in the same boat. We're all on the MLL e-mail list. We're all fans. We're allowed to disagree about how much we like the new album, but I'd assume we would have unsubscribed if we absolutely hate it. We're just arguing over what we call the new album -- a sellout, a new direction, or just a different color of bathing suit so more people notice it. And some people on the list think that anything MLL touches turns is gold, and can't seem to take any criticism about her. But I think that's doing her a disservice. Mark - -- Mark A. Miazga miazgama@pilot.msu.edu "Cynicism isn't smarter. Michigan State University It's just easier." 206 East Akers Hall, M.S.U. East Lansing, MI 48825-1372 -- Jewel Kilcher (517) 353-2083 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:38:12 EST From: LisaTski Subject: [MLL] Re:Selling out, blah blah blah OK all, can we discuss something new? This subject is getting old and tired. We keep dancing around and around and the music never stops. Agree to disagree and move on. Please. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 17:04:46 -0800 From: Kevin Wan Subject: [MLL] New Subject The entertainment factor has been high on this string...almost bordering on the AOL-esque. My opinion? The only thing Mary Lou is selling-out is the concert venues she's been appearing in, compared to the turnouts of pre-Got No Shadow appearences. Now, in the interest of starting something new, I think it would be interesting to see what fellow listeners of Mary Lou Lord are listening to now. I know the info will perhaps be a little redundant since there was a similar string earlier in the year (prior to GNS) when the list wasn't automated. But since there are several new subscribers, I think it would benifit them to see what musical wavelengths are shared out there. Since the prior string delt with what other bands people are into, let's list some of the top albums that we have recently bought and put into our regular CD rotation. Here are mine, most of which may be more mainstream fare in comparison to the rest of the list. Ani Difranco; *Little Plastic Castle* You know, I've never been a huge Ani fan, despire my feeling that I should be. All my friends worship her, erect shrines in their bedrooms, and plaster their walls with her cheerful mug. But she never gave me a reason to love her. *Dilate* occasionally sneaks into my CD player, but overall I think I must have missed her appeal amongst the riot grrl angst. But *Castle* really drew me in, and I think it is because it has a broader musical appeal than her previous albums, shimmering with pop elements that make it more accessible to my picky ears. Of course, some hardcore fans are in an uproar (sound familiar?) for her slight musical departure (she uses horns on some tracks for goddsake!), but it's made me a bigger fan. Is that so bad? Someone told me "As Is" should be my theme song (hi Catherine!), and the more I listen to it, the more that comment makes sense. Ultrahorse; *The Pleasure And Pain Of An Automobile* These guys recorded their album in the basement of their house (or so the story I've heard goes), and so far, it's been my favorite musical purchase in a long long while. Goofy horns, gratuitous moogs, and lyrics made soley for the purpose of making a good rhyme equal infectious pop that remains stuck on repeat for hours. "Telecom" is my vote for single of the year. Jonathan Fire*Eater; *Wolf Songs For Lambs* I really don't know why I like these guys. The dude's voice gets on my nerves, but I think their music compensates for his vocal annoyance. I mean, it's the same case for me with Sleater-Kinney. Her voice annoys the hell out of me, but I still listen to them because I dig their music. Yo La Tengo; *I Can Hear The Heart Beating As One* More irresistible melodies from one of the most irresistible bands around. Queen; *Classic Queen* I just bought a MiniDisc player, and every mix I make manages to have a track from Queen's "Greatest Hits" on it. I found *Classic* in a used CD bin for 4 bucks. I had forgotten how much I love these guys, and how fun it is to re-live "Wayne's World" by lip-syncing "Bohemian Rhapsody" in the car. Fun fun fun. Cinnamon; *The Courier* I feel like I'm flying when I listen to this album. Letters To Cleo; *Go!* New look, same great taste. Kinda like Pepsi. Super Deluxe; *via Sattelite* Heroes from my hometown, Seattle. Yahoo! Erasure; *Pop 20!* This has been in my rotation since 8h grade. Never seemed to want to leave. Cornershop; *When I Was Born For The 7th Time* I think the fact that my AOL screename (OnThe45) echoes one of their lyrics, demonstrates my love for these guys. Fleetwood Mac; *The Dance* Okay, okay, before you throw various objects at me, I think you all need to sit back and think of all the guilty pleasures that you won't admit to. See? I'm not so much different than you! I mean, to me, Fleetwood Mac is like crack. You won't admit doing it, but DAMN, it feels good when you do. Natalie Imbruglia; *Left Of The Middle* This girl is not just another pretty face who can sing. Her album really has texture and variety. And she has talent, way beyond her current single. Each track is distinctive...ranging from Poe-like sounds, to Alanis-esuqe angst, to peppy Brady Bunch-like sing-a-longs. Nothing really original here. But something old done really really well. Mary Lou Lord; *Got No Shadow* Nuff said. Ciao, Kevin - -------------------------------------------------------- My Mary Lou Lord Page at http://members.aol.com/mloulord ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 22:00:27 EST From: AWeiss4338 Subject: Re: [MLL] New Subject I second what was said about Ani and Letter's To Cleo. They are great. Other things I've been listening to: Beth Orton Tralier Park Hole Live through this Mix tapes that internet friends sent, Mostly of Dar Williams Fiona Apple Tidal The Tape Of Only Loud Fans, a internet fan club only tape on people doing Loud Family/Game Theroy (same guy Scott Miller, yes the same Scott Miller of His ND World was was in both bands) songs. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 20:06:45 PST From: "Matt P." Subject: Re: [MLL] New Subject >Now, in the interest of starting something new, I think it would be >interesting to see what fellow listeners of Mary Lou Lord are listening to - -(Anything to fill my mailbox up with non-sellout related stuff)- I've been listing to a bunch of Blake Babies & Ramones, sorta an odd mix but I just think that if someone started a band that had this mix it would just be amazing. Along with this I've been listing to a lot of Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, the Stooges, Cold Cold Hearts, Helium, the Raging Teens, and of course Mary Lou Lord, mainley boots & GNS along w/ a bit of "real" yep -Matt Phelps- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 01:27:12 EST From: Drmchild10 Subject: [MLL] MLL words from the source Ok, I agree with all the talk to end this topic, so last night at the Crocodile Cafe (In Seattle) Mary Lou had this to say to the topic of GNS selling out. "I made the album I wanted to make." She rocks, she is sincere and anyone who wants to talk to her can cause she gives them her full attention. Dave Drmchild10@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 22:51:33 From: Darren Subject: Re: [MLL] New Subject What's been in my rotation? Let's see... Del Amitri - *Twisted* My favorite sounding Dels album. Not my favorite as to what the songs mean to me, but I like the way it sounds. The guys touch on the toppermost of the POPermost with Roll To Me, and they cringe as they do it. They enjoy dropping back down into the fray with Crashing Down or Being Somebody Else. Michelle Malone - *beneath the devil moon* For those that don't know (and those who do, let me know if you think this fits), Michelle Malone is a cross between Bonnie Raitt and Melissa Etheridge and The Black Crows. She's got a great voice, writes and plays all her own stuff, and is now releasing her own stuff. As, she got the big recording contract with Atlantic records but dropped THEM after one album. Liz Phair - *Exit To Guyville* I'm sure this is in everyone's catalog. If not, it should be! I can't wait for the new one! Although all the troubles with it have me nervous. Paul Westerberg *14 Songs* Again, I think this is probably in most of your collections too. Cowboy Mouth - *Are You With Me?* I really like these guys. A friend's sister is really into them, and that's how I heard about them. I found a promo disc for $2.99 so I picked it up. Great guitar driven melodic rock. Great hooks, great vocals, great everything. Although, they don't change the pace a whole lot, and it can become tiring if you're not in the mood. They were supposed to open for Del Amitri last year, but cancelled out when they got the opportunity to tour in Europe. Eric Clapton - *Pilgrim* I've tried hard to like it. I don't. Josh Clayton-Felt - *Inarticulate Nature Boy* A great album to have on in the background of whatever you're doing. For those who don't know, he fronted School Of Fish previously. And, my guilty pleasure this week has been even worse than Fleetwood Mac... America - *History* To me, this music is a band-aid to the soul. I don't listen to it much. I probably haven't listened to it in almost 2 years now, but it always brings a smile to my face. And of course, MLL - *GNS* Peace, []http://www.spiritone.com/~darren/delamitr.htm Darren [] darren@spiritone.com ------------------------------ End of jinglejangle-digest V1 #50 *********************************