From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V6 #103 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Thursday, March 8 2001 Volume 06 : Number 103 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe from this digest, send an email to * jewel-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY the word * unsubscribe in the BODY of the email * . * For the latest news on what Jewel is up to, go to * the OFFICIAL Jewel web site at http://www.jeweljk.com * and click on "what's new" * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: jewel-digest V5 #xxx or the like gives fellow list readers * no clue as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [EDA] njc: the shootings, and violence in schools [Erin Muir ] [EDA] NJC: California violence [RachKat926@aol.com] [EDA] NJC Violence in Schools A UK perception ["Rowley" ] [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V6 #102 [ChrissyPf1@aol.com] Re: [EDA] NJC Violence in Schools [Phkme2@excite.com] [EDA] Video Angelfood ["Emily Griffiths" ] Re: [EDA] NJC Violence in Schools ["Kerri" Subject: Re: [EDA] njc: the shootings, and violence in schools YEAH- I want to add- we all have to take responsibility for ourselves but also for our culture. If I don't take a step to help anyone else, why should anyone else try to help me? I also want to say... monkey see monkey do. Erin - --- Lorrie Stewart wrote: > diana wrote: > > I don't know about anyone else here but in my > school. no one really cares > about anyone else. ... we are all judged by what we > look like, what we wear, > the music you listen to, the color of your skin > ect.... you are not judged > by who by the "content of your charicter" or the > kind of person you are... > > kids in my school walk around down the hallways > between classes calling > eachother rude and disrespectful names no one cares > about anyone but > themselves. When these kids go around calling > eachother these names and/or > picking on someone in the hallways, they tolerate > it. They don't do > anything. We need to make it known in these schools > that making fun of > someone, bullying someone will not be tolerated. > > > > >>This debate could go on and on... there are way > too many insights on this > >>topic. However, I thought I'd throw my two cents > in anyway. You said > >>that the kids in you school tolerate it... they > don't do anything. That > >>could, and could not be true. Regardless if they > are tolerating it... it > >>still hurts, and in some people, those hurt > feelings build up to... > >>well... what we've seen in schools for the past > few years. Sometimes, if > >>a kid "tolerates" so many things- they all build > up, and they crack... > >>this is what has been happening. It's sad, but > some kids don't have > >>loving parents, or caring friends to go home to. > For the most part, these > >>kids- have been boys. Boys (not trying to single > out a species) seem to > >>have a harder time opening up... and seem to have > a lot more pressure with > >>their boy peers, than girls do with their girl > peers. For instance girls > >>can talk about more personal things with their > girlfriends, than guys > >>would with their guy friends... part of the big > bad macho man thing I > >>guess... (you know what I'm talking about guys, > I'm not trying to be rude > >>or anything.). Anyway, if these kids don't have > anyone to talk to about > >>their problems, anyone to give them a hug, or tell > them that they love > >>them, then they're going to just get worse and > worse... and "bang" so to > >>speak. > > Just my two cents. And, this is proven, hugs make > people feel better, so > give someone a hug, let them know you care... :) > > Lorrie > the lonely angel > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ===== Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow the talent to the dark place where it leads. - --Erica Jong Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 00:21:11 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Byer Subject: [EDA] [NJC] school violence OK, Ill jump into this :) I dont think the current sensationalized violence now becoming prevelent is caused simply by teasing and bullying, these too are just symptoms of a bigger problem, namely the current 'standard' educational model. We take our kids and arbitrarily divide them by age into fairly autonomous groups and expect them to conform to our society without continual reinforcement, guidence and just plain interest. We ask inexperienced children to build their own societal structures amongst themselves and then wonder why brutality and force rule. The 'typical' (please excuse the generalization) child is dropped off for most of the day in a building, some even with bars on the windows, to be babysat. In the classroom we expect that everyone learns at the average pace, thus ignoring the inquizitive students and leaving behind those that need just a little more time. It doesnt really matter if a child actually learns anything, it will just be repeated again and again. Then the frustrated student gets to actually run in the open air for maybe an hour. During this hour there is not any guidance, just policing by volunteers or overworked, undereducated and underpaid teachers. Is it any wonder that children recognize the meanest as the Lord of the Flies? After their formative years are spent 'learning' first hand about force as an absolute ruler, after their aggressive and inquizative years are wasted re-memorizing multiplication tables, we ask that they join a more egalitarian society. The problem stems not from the emotional leanings of inexperienced children but from an institution based on Prussian Militarism built to educate/brainwash good consumers and economic slaves. I think there is a lot to be said about the benefits of a more Montessori approach to education, or even to one room schoolhouses, where children are treated as inexperienced adults rather than current idiots and future comsumer slaves. Our current system is fairly new in a historical sense and is a qualitative break from the parent/child tutelage and/or guild system and does not seem to be working. What frightens me the most is that we waste the years that could be the most productive with endless and meaningless group projects, poor writing and memorization. I can honestly say I am glad to be out of that surreal arena of education now that I have taken an arbitrary number of college classes and now get to join the 'real' world of sports hero worship and consumerism. In defense of the teachers, I find it hard to believe that any of them have poor intentions but after sitting in 400 level math classes and watching the math ed students struggle with basic proofs and basic steps of logic (for a mathematician anyway :) I can't help but feel that they have been cheated as well. I for one will not be sending my children to any school like this but plan to instead homeschool them when they are old enough (though really their education started in the first seconds of life). It really doesn't seem much different than the latest team of criminals winning the big football thingy, to me anyway. Just sharing my thoughts, feel free to flame or support in private if you wish. the homeless angle Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 22:17:30 EST From: RachKat926@aol.com Subject: [EDA] NJC: California violence Hi~ I decided to put my two cents into this conversation: I agree with Diana to an extent (hi Diana, do you remember me? We've chatted before :) I thought I recognized your name) Anyways--The parents need to be way more involved in their childrens' lives. Take Columbine for example-- I could never have that much bomb making and white supremacist materials in my bedroom without my parents even knowing. It's crazy that they were so oblivious to what their children were doing in the garage after school every day. ITA that a child brings what they are taught at home everywhere else they go. And if they are taught nothing, where does that take them? I believe it begins and ends with parents-- children cannot raise themselves! If they are surrounded by love, as you say Diana, it will make an incredible difference-- I truly believe that you cannot have healthy children without a healthy homelife. I feel like a 40 year old talking like this LOL. However, when it was said that being made fun of and ridiculed and saying mean things to people in the hall are just "done" and brushed off, I don't agree with that statement as a whole. Of course it is done, and it is accepted in high school to an extent. But how do you know for sure that what you say to someone is tolerated? Just because they laugh it off when you call them a fag, or because they ignore you when you yell "freak" at them doesn't mean it doesn't hurt them. I am not condoning (sp??) what these people have done. They're heinous, brutal, horrible, unforgivable crimes against human life. But people need to take into consideration what they were feeling at the time. I don't know what was going on in their heads-- no one does-- they aren't balanced mentally. But haven't we all felt alienated at some time or another? Haven't we been so frustrated we just want to scream at someone? Shooting people is an extreme-- horrible, but maybe we need to understand where they were coming from to prevent this from ever happening again!!!!!!! Attack at the source, don't play "what if we had done this instead..." Anyways-- I also agree that the media play this up too much. As someone who aspires to be part of the medium (eeks!) I can say that I am embarassed about how they handle it every time. But also, it sells. People watch, so they play more of it. But it is my firm belief that what is on the news puts ideas in people's heads. This wouldn't be such an "epidemic" for lack of a better word, if it hadn't been played up so much in the media. They put websites for bomb making sites on the news, for goodness sake's!!!!! Ok, I think I'm done... if you read this all, thank you... if not, I understand, it was really long and boring with absolutely nothing to do with Jewel :) Good nite, sleep tite ~Rachel~ "I have it on good terms to know that the quest for perfection can leave an individual gasping for breath." ~Princess Diana "Wherefore art my Romeo, where have all the cowboys gone? Show me one man who knows his own heart, to him I shall belong." ~Jewel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:07:03 -0000 From: "Rowley" Subject: [EDA] NJC Violence in Schools A UK perception Although here in the UK we have had isolated incidents in schools, you must admit that this is nothing like the trouble on the other side of the atlantic. But we listen to the same music as you people, so it cant be that. We wear the same clothes so it cant be that. We speak the same languages and we play a lot of the same sports. In essence we are very similar as countries except in size. So what is the difference? Why are there these problems in a US school and not a UK school. Weopons could be an issue, but I assure anyone in the UK name a weopon and i could get you one within a week so maybe that isnt the case. I'd love to hear your responses, and maybe we can make some understanding out of this tragedy. And who knows maybe we could teach whole governments how to learn from their mistakes! Nick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 04:42:39 -0800 (PST) From: liz lee Subject: [EDA] njc: shootings Shane said: People are shaped by their peers and friends more than by their parents. That is proven. So to get to the root of the problem, we need to change the way the children act, not how they are being raised. Do you think that all murderers were raised poorly and abused. No. A lot of them grew up with perfect parents. In some cases that might be true, but that is a cliche if I've ever seen one. Yeah, that's true. In the 8th grade, my class was talking about peer pressure, and although they lied through their teeth they weren't influenced, but we all knew. I get pressured all the time (but not into drugs or anything, things like hanging out after school instead of going home. Another thing-- my parents are soooooooooooooo wonderful, but you know what? They spoiled me rotten! So there could be kids like that who hate their parents though they're nice... ===== ~*Liz*~ the Misplaced Angel HARMLESS & SHAMELESS PLUGS (if you can, check 'em out!) MUSIC: Motor Betty, Amanda Jones, Shannon Curfman, Joy Eden Harrison, Steve Poltz, Shakira, CoCo Lee, Faye Wong, Nancy Micciulla!, LAURA PAUSINI!! ACTORS: Haley Joel Osment, Lucas Black!! Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:11:11 EST From: ChrissyPf1@aol.com Subject: [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V6 #102 Rache wrote: << Up until about 6 months ago I was oblivious to the fact that she had over 150 unreleased songs! I've spent a lot of time downloading them. I think I have most of them now thank goodness! :) >> What is the total of jewel's unreleased songs up to now anyway? Any one have an approx. number? Thanks!! - -- Chrissy PS -- Louise (briedis@alphalink) you are the best!! thanks for being such a great person to trade with!! PPS-- Thank you to everyone who got back to me about finishing our trades- you are all great!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:56:19 -0800 (PST) From: Phkme2@excite.com Subject: Re: [EDA] NJC Violence in Schools I kinda understand about locking down schools like a prison. Would you rather be Safe and alive? or in danager and terror? School should be a safe haven, this is all BS and breaks my heart! I am glad that George W. got elected, since he, and his Father both are for School vouchers, so when/if i have kids, i can send them to public schools, or They (Gov.) can use that money to help me send them to a private school. Also some One on this list in on the East coast, said they went to school with this kid, in San Diego. And you said your glad you never meet him, that way you wouldnt trip out and be like, "he could never do that...." something like that. But... just a BUT, and a big What if..... if you did meet this kid, and became friends with him, if you reached out, shared Jewel with him, and love and compassion, became his Bro (i think you were a guy that posted) His life might have been different. I in no way am trying to make you feel guilty or put any blame on you, but i believe that we have million of choices, and we are on this earth for some crazy reason. And my friends are very important in my life, and if it werent for certain people than i wouldnt be on this list right now, probable not living where i am, etc etc etc. So the moral is, reach out to the not so popular kids, be a FRIEND a BIG Brother or sister, stand of for the underdog. Some one also quoted HANDs......So in that style ONLY KINDNESS MATTERS........ humbly, Neal _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:16:52 -0000 From: "Emily Griffiths" Subject: [EDA] Video Angelfood Good morning Angels :) I have some Angelfood, about 10 tapes, but only Joy and A Life Uncommon on video. Anyone willing to trade Storytellers or anything else on video for tapes or costs? Please let me know. Thanx Emily, Smitten Angel - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:40:15 -0500 From: "Kerri" Subject: Re: [EDA] NJC Violence in Schools While I believe that the violence is intolerable, I don't think our new presidents voucher system is the solution. I am in a masters program to become a school psychologist, and we have debated the voucher system in classes. This will simply move the problem to another school. When I was in high school a lot of the rich kids went to private schools, but the same problems exist everywhere. Yes, private schools can offer smaller classes and a more personalized experience, but not if they too become overcrowded. I think a more productive use of the voucher money would be to improve the "bad" and "undesirable" schools. Bring in more teachers, improve the facilities, encourage personal contact between school and home, and between students and faculty. Let the students know that we care and want to help them. I spent 20 weeks at a school that was taking steps in this direction. They implemented a block schedule, instituting 2-3 periods a week as advisory. The purpose of advisory was for all students to have personal contact with an adult. While this is not a solution for school violence, it is a step in the right direction. My point is we need to work on the solution that is right for each school, not look to a different school. Private school, public school; the drinking, drugs, and negativity exist in both places. - -Kerri "But don't wander too far, my one constant star. Darkness exists, except where you are. My feet are filled with wandering they follow your own. Everywhere you are feels like home..." Jewel, Last Dance Rodeo - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [EDA] NJC Violence in Schools > School should be a > safe haven, this is all BS and breaks my heart! I am glad that George W. > got elected, since he, and his Father both are for School vouchers, so > when/if i have kids, i can send them to public schools, or They (Gov.) can > use that money to help me send them to a private school. ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V6 #103 ***************************