From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V3 #553 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Thursday, October 15 1998 Volume 03 : Number 553 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * jewel-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY the word * unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Jewel tour dates, go to: * http://jewel.zoonation.com and click on "TOUR" * OR * go to the OFFICIAL Jewel home page at http://www.jeweljk.com * and go to the "What, When, Where" section * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: jewel-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- MrBB-NJC-Complete Previous LRT gig reference list [ABershaw@aol.com] Re: Re: spare change, by Mr BB ["Kevin Pease" 23 End Of The Summer Blow-Out, Boston, MA (Trina Hamlin, Mica Richards & Jess Klein) 98/08/26 LRT gig #29, Lawrence, KS (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) 98/08/28 LRT gig #30, Greenfield, IN (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) 98/08/29 LRT gig #31, Toledo, OH (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) 98/08/30 LRT gig #32, Harrisburg, PA (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) 98/09/02 LRT gig #33, Montreal, Quebec, Canada (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) 98/09/05 LRT gig #34, Cape Cod, MA (Joy Eden Harrison, Lisa Sanders, Cindy Lee Berryhill, Jody Blackwell, Kellie Sue Peters, Carole Ann Cartier) 98/09/06 LRT gig #35, Taunton, MA (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) 98/09/07 LRT gig #36, West Medford, MA (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) 98/09/08 LRT gig #37, Union, New Jersey (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) 98/09/10 LRTgig #38, Chesterfield, VA (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) 98/09/11 LRTgig #39, Charlotte,NC (Joy Eden Harrison, Lisa Sanders & 3rd Wish) 98/09/12 LRTgig #40, Durham,NC (Joy Eden Harrison & Lisa Sanders) And hopefully the list will continue to go on & on & on... :-) MrBB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:13:57 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: Re: spare change, by Mr BB << Warning: Sort of long. Read at your own risk. :) >> A first point, before I address the "Change is Bad, Change is not Good" thing: I'm getting very tired of the "two legs good, four legs bad" mentality being displayed by *both* sides of this discussion... those folks that LOVE Hands are assuming that Jewel's new album will be the best thing since sliced bread, running water, & flush toilets. And those folks that HATE Hands are assuming that Jewel's new album signals the coming of the antichrist. Let's lighten up, and take a deep breath here. If you don't like the new album, great. If you like the new album, great. But the key point here is this: (And I apologize for yelling, but I want to make sure nobody misunderstands what I'm about to say) *YOU HAVEN'T HEARD THE NEW ALBUM YET, SO YOU CAN'T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT YOU'LL LOVE OR HATE IT.* Sorry to yell, but I want that point getting across loud and clear. Yes, many of the songs you've heard, but you haven't heard the *present* incarnation of the songs, so you really don't know if Spirit will be as good, or as bad, as you hope or fear. Why do I say this? Play a little game with me here... Which songs off of POY were released to radio? Foolish Games, WWSYS, and You Were Meant For Me. Were these the "best" songs on the album? Not really, in my opinion (Amen, Angel Standing By, Don't, and Daddy were all "better", *in my opinion*). Were the three songs released to radio the most "radio-friendly" songs on the album? In my opinion, you betcha. SO, what can we conclude from this? MAYBE, just maybe, "Hands" is one of the more "radio-friendly" songs on the album (makes sense to release it to radio, n'est-ce pas?), and there's a big ol' STACK of radio-unfriendly songs on Spirit that will be absolutely fantastic and never see the light of day on radio. Why are we judging the merits of a whole album based on the ONE version of the song we've heard on the radio? Let's *at least* reserve judgement until we actually HEAR the whole thing, huh? Exhibit A: If the decision were based solely on the song "Mr. Jones", I probably never would have bought Counting Crows' "August and Everything After". Don't get me wrong, Mr. Jones is an *okay* song, but if the whole album was like that, I probably wouldn't ever listen to it. But, again, that's the most "radio-friendly" song on the CD... so am I surprised that that's what they released to radio? Not in the least. "Round Here" was also released, and that one is also not the best song on the CD by far, in my opinion. So why are we so surprised that the first song released to radio off of Spirit is a slickly produced, radio-friendly sort of song, and why do we assume that EVERY song on the new album will sound that way? I've never felt Jewel was a "one-trick pony" - to me, she's always been an artist who seems to enjoy trying new styles and sounds. Now, on to other things. >>Sean Hooks (Sean35RL@aol.com) writes: >Wrong Alan. Change is not inherently or intrinsically good. Change for the >sake of change is actually bad. Alan never said that the change was "good" or "bad", he said "Staying the same is boring. Change is interesting." 'Interesting' does not necessarily equal 'good'. And, if change is not "inherently or intrinsically good" in any way, how can it be intrinsically or inherently bad, regardless of the motivation for the change? :) >There is a huge difference between growth and change. Look at it >this way. Growth is a move upwards. Change can be a move upwards, sideways, or >back. Actually, I'd say growth is merely a type of change then... are they *that* hugely different? Well, I suppose that depends on how you look at it. Who are we to say that Jewel's new musical direction is NOT growth? It sounds to me like the people who are saying that her changes are bad are saying it simply because they don't like the changes. Now, to me, that's a pretty subjective way to decide whether or not she's "growing" (good?) or "changing" (bad?). If you don't like her new sound, then fine, you're welcome to hate it until the cows come home. To be perfectly honest, I'm not entirely crazy about the sound of "Hands"... it's decent, but not something I'm going to play over and over and over and over again. What bothers me, though, is the fact that you're making what seems to be a completely arbitrary determination that Jewel's "new sound" is "change" rather than "growth", and that this is a "bad" direction for her to move in - it seems like you're saying "Well, I don't like it, so this new sound is bad change, not good growth." If, after listening to it, it turns out I don't like Spirit, it's not going to ruin my enjoyment of Pieces of You, or the various live performances I have on tape, and it certainly won't preclude the possibility that I will enjoy future work she does. I guess the difference is, when I decide I don't like an album, or an artist's "new sound", I generally assume the problem is mine - it's not the type of stuff I'm into, or it just hasn't grown on me, or it's just not the right album for that point in time for me... Exhibit B: Take Heather Nova's newest CD, Siren - I absolutely *love* her earlier work (Glow Stars, Blow, Oyster), and was sort of disappointed with Siren (it's okay, but not as good as her earlier stuff), because it just didn't hit me the same way... is that because Heather did something wrong? No. It's because it just didn't suit my tastes. Is Heather changing in a bad way because she put out a CD which I didn't really appreciate as much? No - I didn't like it as much, but that doesn't mean there's "less art" or a lower-quality art on the CD - I didn't like it as much means, quite simply, I didn't like it as much, and that's ALL it means. Since I am not (and none of you are, either) the arbiter of what is good and bad in music, growth, and change, I'm not qualified to make the judgement that the change is "good or bad", "growth or change", "music or noise." And frankly, I think it's presumptuous of someone (besides the artist) to think that they CAN determine what is a "good or bad" direction for that artist to take. It's always a little depressing to "lose" an artist whose work you love. Think of it like a relationship - sometimes, you just grow apart. That doesn't mean either one of you is "bad" or "good"... those terms are meaningless, and purely subjective in cases like this. It simply means you're *different*, and not suited to each other at that point in time. Do you want the artist to sacrifice the sound *they* want to achieve, simply to make a customer happy? That seems a bit antithetical to the idea of art, to me. >I have nothing against trying new things because staying the >same is somewhat boring and stagnation is definitely bad. >But how about, If it ain't broke don't fix it. Ever hear of that >one? I wish you'd make up your mind. "staying the same is somewhat boring", yet "if it ain't broke, don't fix it? If Jewel was staying the same, we'd probably hear complaints that her new album is prosaic, and sort of boring, and not very fresh, or innovative, or exciting, or interesting. But now, since she's trying her hand at a new sound, we hear, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Exhibit C: This reminds me a *LOT* of the situation on the Patty Griffin mailing list, Mad Mission. Long-story-short: Patty's first album was VERY sparse and minimal and folky - strictly voice & a guitar. Then we hear, "Patty's second album will have a full band backing her, etc. etc." It was a BIG departure from the original sound, think Guns 'N Roses suddenly deciding to make Paul Simon-esque music. :) There were a lot of complaints, that Patty was "selling out", or that it wasn't a good thing that she was changing so drastically, and that the new album would undoubtedly suck, and all sorts of other smack-talking was going on. It was actually rather amusing, watching people rush to judge her based on the pre-release "press" that they had heard. Then the CD came out, and a LOT of the people who had been saying, "It's going to suck, I can't believe she's doing this to us," changed their tune when they heard it - "Oh, it's not as bad as I thought", "Oh, she's still got such fantastic lyrics"... stuff like that. :) And, in all fairness, a few of the people who were saying, "I think it'll be great!!!!" turned out to not like it as much as they thought they would. There seems to be an attitude with a lot of people that either: a. You LOVE the artist and everything they do, regardless of what it sounds like (OR...) b. They make one song you don't like, and they get crucified for letting you down. Both of these are rather extreme positions, I think. You can like some songs by an artist and not like others... and it's okay to not like stuff by an artist who has never failed to please you. In closing, let's reserve judgement on Spirit's merits, good or bad, until we actually hear it. If you don't like Hands, great... but don't assume you'll hate the whole album simply because you don't like the first single from the album. And, keep in mind here, I'm not saying that "I'm sure you'll love the whole album", either - I haven't heard it, so to say that would be pure speculation. I'm not sure *I'll* love the whole album yet. :) But, again, if you don't like it, or I don't like it, or anybody else doesn't like it - isn't that more the fault of our own tastes & preferences than it is Jewel's "failing" as an artist? To say that her music should or must fit our own tastes and preferences is ridiculous - you can't please all the people all the time. And if she tried to do that, wouldn't that be in direct opposition to the term "artist"? If you made it this far, thanks for reading. Kevin P.S. - for those of you who worry that Jewel's going to get "too commercial" and "too pop-ish" - can you *REALLY* picture her singing something like "Mmmbop", or "If you wanna be my lover, you gotta get with my friends"?? Give the woman a *little* credit for god's sake. - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sitting here at the water's edge now that the storm has gone, First time in years it feels like nothing's wrong, There've been a lot of changes, I was so lost for a while, Sitting here I remember how it's easy to smile..." ---(Heather Nova, "Grow Young")--- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:25:51 EDT From: CITNAMOR@aol.com Subject: Jewel on RA =) Hey Jewel-lovers, I recently got a couple Jewel songs on real audio but need a player...I have a mac though =( Does anyone know if there is a RA 5.0 for mac...and if anyone has one could they please please send me it???? Thanks so much Jeff~The Romantic Angel "Our hearts are on the shelves, we can't fix ourselves....but we can fix, a satellite." JK-Satellite ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:51:19 EDT From: Jesapeet@aol.com Subject: I finally heard Hands I heard the song last night, right when i was drifting off. So i hurried and jumped out of bed, and recorded it. . i missed the first two lines though .. (On the recording) But i really really do like it. I think it is very good. Well, that's all. . thanks! Love Apparition of an Angel - Jessica http://members.aol.com/jesapeet/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:20:51 EDT From: Krz4catz@aol.com Subject: Hands, great song and much more I was skeptical when they decided to call the CD Hands, I mean, like many others, I figured it would get alot of fun made out of it by people who truly do not take the time to think about the meaning. Anyways, after I heard the song, and LOVED it soooo much, I truly understand the meaning, though it takes on many, and my whole opinion changed. Jewel truly is spiritual and wise, and as an angel I know she will never fall :) Sheila the poetic angel ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V3 #553 ***************************