From: owner-jewel-digest To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V1 #773 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "jewel-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. jewel-digest Friday, 15 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 773 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: NJC: Re: My Favorite Line NJC: Re: undernet... Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) Hey, that was my idea! Absence of Fear Innerchange Days Jewel dream and question Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) harsh words--taoism--go see "Butterflies are free" Re: NJC: Re: My Favorite Line Re: NJC: semalf Re: Jewel reading lists, etc Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) Re: Educate don't condemn Re: NJC:what? Now we're slamming on girls? Re: NJC: Re: My Favorite Line Re: Innerchange Days Re: educate dont condenm Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) Re: Poe's/Jewel crossover ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lauren Jean Ljubicich Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 18:34:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: NJC: Re: My Favorite Line my favorite misconception of a line was from Nikos.. "she looked like a big horse..." when in actuality 'twas: "she looked like a divorce..." silly silly me Lauren ------------------------------ From: Dollphini@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:08:52 -0500 Subject: NJC: Re: undernet... Well, I don't know what the undernet is, sounds like some type of hairspray for your underware. Some one fill me in here. Your very computer illetarate, but fellow EDA Amber Grasmick ------------------------------ From: David Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:22:16 -1000 Subject: Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) Aloha Sean- What, are you trying to dig yourself to China(or Guam)or just bury yourself alive? At 05:21 PM 11/15/96 -0500, Sean wrote: >(Major snip) > My point is that too >many girls think that having sex with a lot of guys gives them some sort >of strength or power that they lack. They are abusing sex. Guys are >conforming to macho, societally imposd values as well but their behavior ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >is not nearly as pathetic to me as girls who disregard their sexuality and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >try to use it to fulfill a hole in their lives, selves, and beings. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ OK,let me see if I got this straight... Girls who think that F*ing a lot of guys gives them some sort of power,noteriety,improved self-esteem,etc. bums you out,the pathetic cretins... Guys that conform/submit to the bullsh*t of macho,societally imposed values and who exhibit the same behavior patterns don't cause you similar distress because after all, they just doing what society expects from them... So why the double standard,Sean,other than that (I assume) you are male and have conformed to a macho,"societally imposed"(yet individually accepted) set of values? More snippage... >To Selena about the connection between intelligence and sexuality. First, >there is a difference between sexuality and fucking a lot of guys because >you are insecure and have low self-confidence. Guys who get around usually ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >don't do so for those reasons, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ OK, so girls/women/hermaphrodites that f*ck like rabbits are usually insecure and have low self-esteem,but guys that behave exactly the same are not usually motivated by these same deficiencies? I'd love to hear an explanation for that particular philosophy... If I could stop laughing at this inane attempt to extricate yourself from the flaming resulting from your previous post,I might write more, but unfortunately HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA HAHA Snippage again... >Later, > Sean Hooks > Hopefully MUCH later,at least on this topic...You can't dig yourself much deeper without a cave-in,I'm afraid... Aloha- David ------------------------------ From: bhartford3rd@juno.com (Bruce D Hartford III) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:15:10 EST Subject: Hey, that was my idea! >It may be worth noting at this point of the debate that when Sean Hooks >paraphrases Thomas Gray by saying 'Ignorance may be blissful...', that >the original phrase is an excerpt which says "where ignorance is bliss, >'tis folly to be wise". It's from Gray's mid-18th century work entitled >On a Distant Prospect of Eton College (and, in fact, has some relation >to the biblical passage in Ecclesiastes I:I8). >I believe a key part of the passage is the reference to 'wise'. >Intelligence without wisdom is akin to the proverbial ship without a >rudder. It serves no useful purpose, and furthermore, I would contend >that one cannot achieve genuine wisdom without a large measure of >compassion. In other words: "Zeal without prudence is like a ship adrift." --James Joyce >Is there some way we can evolve this debate into yielding something >positive? >I think Mr. Hooks' objectives are fundamentally admirable... >... Why don't we read something together? We could propose a book >(or play or poem) that may >or may not be Jewel inspired, and discuss it. >Perhaps we could choose one piece per week, or per month; or perhaps we >could decide that my suggestion is inappropriate and I'm full of it, and >we might be entirely right..... Good idea (sheesh) maybe someone (I can't imagine who) would be kind enough to volunteer to post sections (of say the symposium). Doesn't anyone read the new guys posts?? The offer still stands... ...assuming of course the offer doesn't fall on deaf ears! ; ) >Have a very good weekend everyone (and I mean everyone). Ditto -Bruce bhartford3rd@juno.com - ------------------------------ From: the emperor of smurfs Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:18:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Absence of Fear Hi Angels! does anyone know if "Absence of Fear" was one of the sngs that Jewel recorded at Bearsville for the new album? i really hope this song is on the new album :) peace, dave *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* Dave DiCicco peaches@dmapub.dma.org "Innocence Maintained" is a moderated, news only email list providing its subscribers with timely information about Jewel Kilcher. If you would like to learn more about subscribing to IM or you have a news item to contribute, please email me. *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* ------------------------------ From: the emperor of smurfs Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:22:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Innerchange Days Hello again! i was wondering who originally recorded the innerchange days tapes? i know that ken w. handled much of the distribution...but i don't think i ever heard who the source was. :( i would love to know if any more of this material was available from the earliest days. :) i really prefer jewel's solo work instead of her work with a band. peace, dave *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* Dave DiCicco peaches@dmapub.dma.org "Innocence Maintained" is a moderated, news only email list providing its subscribers with timely information about Jewel Kilcher. If you would like to learn more about subscribing to IM or you have a news item to contribute, please email me. *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* ------------------------------ From: wrdavis@ite.net (Katherine Davis) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:21:26 -0800 Subject: Jewel dream and question I had the coolest Jewel dream last night. I found a piece of paper Jewel had scribbled on about what songs were going to be on the next album and I came to the computer and posted it to you guys and we were all talking about it and Jewel herself posted a message for the one who found the paper to contact her at some address. I told her I had it and she asked for my address and I gave it to her and we talked for a short bit and then about a week later, she flew out just for the piece of paper. She came to my door wearing this beautiful Cinderella gown gave me a really big hug and invited me to "the ball". So I said yes and followed her out the door. We boarded a plane and then went to Cali. Turned out "the ball" was the Jingle Ball thing. So I got to see her live!!! I met her backstage and she said, "tell me what you think of this new song" and just as she played the first note, my mom woke me up and said "get out your dirty clothes, I'm doing laundry!!" At 9AM???????! ack! maybe it's one of those continuating dreams if I'm lucky. Just had to say that and I was wondering if Jewel herself does ever read some posts to the list...because on the JS tapes she was talking about the cigarette/lollipop thing... Love this list even more, Kerry ------------------------------ From: Selena Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:28:33 -0800 Subject: Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) >David said >Ok, so girls/women/hermaphrodites that f*ck like rabbits are usually >insecure and have low self-esteem,but guys that behave exactly the same >are >not usually motivated by these same deficiencies? David, Gotta respond to that. Yes, many many girls/women that have low self esteem behave that way. I have a very close friend who was very promiscuous for some time. She just shared with me that she was sexually educated numerous times by her father. Unfortunately, she displayed classic behaviour, yet still never found the love she needed so badly. Sean was right to seperate the reasons for being sexually active. Low self esteem, and searching for love is not the right reason. Selena ------------------------------ From: wrdavis@ite.net (Katherine Davis) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:27:51 -0800 Subject: harsh words--taoism--go see "Butterflies are free" Can there be a nice thread for once? I keep hearing all these contraversial list subjects and little tidbits of Jewel here and there to bring us all up. I'm glad that whoever started the favorite Jewel line thread did, because that's some of the good stuff I've been reading. I like reading the arguments, but I don't like to read one big argument in the digest. As for the girl/book thing: I've read many things. I'm reading the Tao Te Ching by Lao-Tzu right now and understanding it completely at the age of 15. I've never struggled in reading and I've read God knows how many books. Some girls like books for entertainment and knowledge. Some see movies, some hear music, some see art, and some do it some other way. Every girl is cultured somehow along with every guy. As for girls going out and just f*cking everybody: isn't it a two part deal? When women get raped, why is it that we always look at the victim? Saying how could she have prevented this? and giving her couseling and giving lectures on prevention and dealing with the pain. What about the guy? What about prevention his way and teaching kids that sex is beautiful, but it is not a right amoung one person to take it from another. Sex is two people. Maybe girls sleep with alot of guys, but if that's their happiness (which I find hard to believe) you have to accept it. And it's sad, I know, and it's not just "today's youth" as many people claim, it's "today's feelings" that are put upon kids. The feelings of pressure and acceptance ruins some and turns them into people they don't even know. I think some get the perception that sex is freedom--rebellion against their parents, and giving them the do and please what I want perspective, and it's good and great to have the Drew Barrymore way: "I have to f*cking be crazy and live my live and f*cking go for it, f*ck everything and just f*cking suck the marrow out of every f*cking day." That's how I feel to and freedom is the most important thing to me even though it gets me in trouble w/ my parents, but sex isn't freedom. I think i got off the subject... did this make any sense? did it make any sense to you guys why i said what i said in the first para and then wrote what i wrote in the second para? me neither ;) Here's a Taoist thought: Long ago, Zhang Zhou dreamed that he as a butterfly. He was elated as a butterfly--well pleased with himself, his aims satisfied. He knew nothing of Zhou. But shortly he awoke and found himself to be Zhou. He did not know whether as Zhou he dreamed he was a butterly, or wheather as a butterfly he dreamed he was Zhou. --Great ages of man I love this one kinda goes with the "butterflies are free...and so are we" theme from the movie 'Butterflies are free'. SEE IT!! Kerry ------------------------------ From: haze@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:03:28 -0500 Subject: Re: NJC: Re: My Favorite Line Chopped Liver wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Bob Kollmeyer wrote: > > > JACOBUS_JARED_G writes: > > > > My favorite line is from "flower" > > > > > > > > "She's a flower that grows despite cinnamon toast, and she will > > > > survive" > > > > > > > > Selena :) > > > Isn't she a flower that grows despite cement posts? > > > > I'm pretty sure it's "And the girl with colitis goes by" ;) > > > > bob, who's sure at least _somebody_ will get it. > > Pretty good, Bob. But, "Excuse me while I kiss this guy". > > Chopped Liver (Charlie), who's not sure _anybody_ gets it. > watkins@selway.umt.edu Maybe I get it... Is that an Ozzy reference?? Haze ------------------------------ From: Alexander Stamou Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 02:30:21 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: NJC: semalf On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Pat Brown wrote: > coffee. Step outside for a moment, or stand by a window where you can see > the sky. (It's a bright, clear blue here over the Shenendoah Valley.) It's a not-so-bright clear black here over "Gothenburg Hills 90210" . Sorry, I had to. /Alexander "too short to be the perfect son-in-law" Stamou ------------------------------ From: haze@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:27:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Jewel reading lists, etc Trent Smith wrote: > > A pair of great posts from Chris Lewis and Gerry Lipnowski (hope I > spelled that right) that didn't descend into flame-dom. > > The latter post mentioned the idea of Jewel-inspired reading lists, > apropos of which I have to mention that last week I went to a book-store > a bought a Big Book of Plato (including "Symposium") as well as a collection > of Pablo Neruda poetry; choices obviously inspired by you-know-who. I was > wondering if anyone else has done this too (except for Sean Hooks, of > course, who's already read it all years ago-- sorry, couldn't help myself). > Anyway, I just thought I'd bring that up. > > Trent Smith > P.S. Al the negativity expressed here recently has made me sick. I know > you're skeptical, thinking "how can email make somebody sick?" but it can't > be a coincidence-- I was just fine a week ago, have been feeling gradually > worse, and last night/ early this morning was downright miserable. Luckily > I'm feeling a little better now, which I attriburte to the fact that the > past few list-messages have all been pretty positive. A book that Jewel herself has read called INFINATE MIND: The Science of Human Vibration is an excellent choice. It deals with energy and the transference of this energy through thought and other things. Wonder why you feel bad from the posts you perceive as negative? This book might help to explain some of that. Chances are you will have to have a book store order it for you, as most places don't stock this book. Haze ------------------------------ From: David Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:59:53 -1000 Subject: Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) At 08:28 PM 11/15/96 -0800, you wrote: >David, > Gotta respond to that. > Yes, many many girls/women that have low self esteem behave that >way. SNIP > Sean was right to seperate the reasons for being sexually active. >Low self esteem, and searching for love is not the right reason. > Selena > > Aloha Selena- My point was that Sean is completely off base when he seperates the reasons for being promiscuous BY SEX...There are just as many men as women that have low/no self-esteem and seek to gain power/control through sex. It is not a gender specific condition... David ------------------------------ From: haze@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:47:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Educate don't condemn CONNELL@taurus.cs.lmco.com wrote: > > EDAs, > > Sorry, but I just can't let this one go without a comment. > > This is to Sean Hooks (the author) and Haze (replier, who agreed) who > commented about knowing "too many girls who have _____ more guys than > books they've read" (I REFUSE to use vulgarity in this context in > a PUBLIC forum) > > Are you two serious? Don't you think that comment goes for both sexes > and 'maybe' even more the other way around? I know too many guys that are > worse. All they read is comics, the funny pages and the sports page. In > my case these are men in their 30's with good paying HI-Tech jobs. It was > worse ten years ago when I knew these same guys. It was the similar > when I was in college. > > The statement by Sean is so sexist it dumbfounds me. Remember this, (it's > old but still the best way to state it) "it takes two to tango, a woman > AND a man". > > Tell me Sean and Haze (I know your name but would never reveal it), do > you think for one moment that the guys that are doing it with these girls > you are referring to are are Rhodes Scholars or something? Even if so, > what makes them better than the girls you are referring to? > > I think both of you owe each and every girl on this list an apology. > > Mike Connell (who doesn't hide behind a nickname)__________________________________________________________________ Mike, Here is what I said: > > I know too many girls who have fucked more guys than books <------SEAN > > they've read. > > This statement is so sad, and so true. I think we all know girls like this. What is up with them? <--ME All I said is that the statement Sean said had some truth. I did not say that it was only girls that did this. He did not mention anything pertaining to guys. If someone said, "Man, I think cats are very sneaky" Would you throw in, "And don't forget mice...They are sneaky too!"? I only responded to what was said, not what was implied or what WASN'T implied. And as far as using the term girls....I think the over-sensitive politicaly correctness in this world has just gone a little too far.. Most of the time I refer to girls as chicks....And that means nothing derrogitory whatsoever. In fact, I respect women more than I do any other species I am aware of on this planet. In fact, I tend to think that if God did show signs of being a certain sex, God would be female. (I don't think God has any physical features...Humans are so addicted to form!) Anyways, I am getting off-track here. I will not apologize because you are offended by something I said. THAT IS YOUR DAMN PROBLEM! I mean no disrespect to anyone...In fact, I was refering to females my own age bracket, 20-27...Which I would think are girls....The young ones don't mind being called that, and the older ones tend to be flattered. My experience is only with people that are of my own age range... Haze (Who has used an alias/handle ever since I bought my first manual 300 baud modem back when I was 14...) ------------------------------ From: haze@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:51:13 -0500 Subject: Re: NJC:what? Now we're slamming on girls? Jeffrey Miller wrote: > PS - as a side note - I refuse to use wimmin or any varient of it - as > far as my studies have shown, women is -not- a subservient form of men - > the linguistics behind that are much more complicated and have very > little to do with wo- being an "indicative of servitude" prefix I think that woman and women is implying that you have to have a man or men or your only a wo.... Hazeman ------------------------------ From: David Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:06:31 -1000 Subject: Re: NJC: Re: My Favorite Line At 08:03 PM 11/15/96 -0500, you wrote: >Chopped Liver wrote: >> >> On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Bob Kollmeyer wrote: >> >> > JACOBUS_JARED_G writes: >> > > > My favorite line is from "flower" >> > > > >> > > > "She's a flower that grows despite cinnamon toast, and she will >> > > > survive" >> > > > >> > > > Selena :) >> > > Isn't she a flower that grows despite cement posts? >> > >> > I'm pretty sure it's "And the girl with colitis goes by" ;) >> > >> > bob, who's sure at least _somebody_ will get it. >> >> Pretty good, Bob. But, "Excuse me while I kiss this guy". >> >> Chopped Liver (Charlie), who's not sure _anybody_ gets it. >> watkins@selway.umt.edu > >Maybe I get it... > >Is that an Ozzy reference?? > >Haze > > Sorry,I think it's from Francis Vincent Zappa's cover of Purple Haze.Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life.... ------------------------------ From: haze@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:57:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Innerchange Days the emperor of smurfs wrote: > > Hello again! > > i was wondering who originally recorded the innerchange days tapes? > i know that ken w. handled much of the distribution...but i don't > think i ever heard who the source was. :( > > i would love to know if any more of this material was available > from the earliest days. :) i really prefer jewel's solo work instead > of her work with a band. > > peace, > > dave I'm with you Dave... Her solo tunes are great... I think the band screws things up... I hope the new album is not all band stuff....That would suck! Haze ------------------------------ From: "BRADLEY C. PORTER" Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:11:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: educate dont condenm > I may not have read the books that you concider classics or "The most > influencial book of the century" but hey what 14 year old has read " The > tropics of cancer"? > I have probably read 400 books in my 14 year old life (I'm serious), > but most of them have been by the authors that I like (ie. R.L. stine , > christopher pike....) stuff like that. > > thirza "cant we all just get along" pearl > I have to come to the defense of thirza here and say that I too, am a lover of R.L. Stine... SenztvRtst Bradley "Satan is in my basement" Porter ------------------------------ From: haze@earthlink.net Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:03:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) Selena wrote: > > >David said > >Ok, so girls/women/hermaphrodites that f*ck like rabbits are usually > >insecure and have low self-esteem,but guys that behave exactly the same >are > >not usually motivated by these same deficiencies? > > David, > Gotta respond to that. > Yes, many many girls/women that have low self esteem behave that > way. > I have a very close friend who was very promiscuous for some time. > She just shared with me that she was sexually educated > numerous times by her father. > Unfortunately, she displayed classic behaviour, yet still never > found the love she needed so badly. > Sean was right to seperate the reasons for being sexually active. > Low self esteem, and searching for love is not the right reason. > Selena Look'n for love in all the wrong places...lookin for love. or Pookin poor nub in dall da wrong places.....pookin poor nub. Haze ------------------------------ From: telliamed@juno.com (Pat Brown) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:42:28 EST Subject: Re: Poe's/Jewel crossover (posted to Everyday Angels as well as Angry Psychos) On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:34:29 Michele Santiago writes: >I wrote: >>--Michele (Hey Poe! Get your AOL online profile up!!! ::) > >Hobbies: Yoga, Surfing, Music, Gathering Information ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sound like anyone we know? (hmm.... dreaming of a new VH1 Duets show) >Occupation: Pepsi Taste Test Coordinator >Personal Quote: "Stop quoting me!" > heh... kawaii (...so, am I an Angry Everyday Psycho Angel?) - ----- telliamed@juno.com ### All opinions expressed are yours. You have only yourself to blame. ### ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V1 #773 ***************************