From: owner-jewel-digest To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V1 #763 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "jewel-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. jewel-digest Thursday, 14 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 763 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Well..? Borders Book Holiday Catalog how to get tapes Re: Jewel posters or shirts? Re: Favorite lines or quotes Re: Favorite lines or quotes Aggh! Jeezey Petes I hate Computers!!!!!! :) This whole anti-popularity thing NJC : The Fuschia one's favorite quotes & lines Re: My Favorite Line RE: NJC: Freedom of choice RE: secret santa Z100 Jingle Ball Line-up Re: Jingle Ball=Sell Outs RE: NJC: Freedom of choice Re: This whole anti-popularity thing Re[2]: This whole anti-popularity thing Quick questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: toni@indy.net (Toni Dunn) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:04:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Well..? >"Would you rather be a dinner bell or a train horn?" > >Why? > >Tom Train horn, I love being noticed!:)-Toni "Now she's sitting in the bedroom and she's crying,"-Jewel "I thought that we just drove across the parking lot!" ------------------------------ From: "Jeff L. John" Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:18:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Borders Book Holiday Catalog Hi. Just a quick note here that POY is one of only 42 Popular CDs being offered (advertised) in the Borders Books Holiday Catalog. The caption reads: 'Continuing women's post-feminist push into the traditionally male-dominated realm of Rock and Roll, Jewel provides mesmerizing sounds and evocative lyrics.' I think rock and roll is a poor clasification to say the least but the recognition is good to see. Kinda appropriate since Borders books is a mega bookstore/coffee bar that they would be pushing POY this holiday season. - -Jeff (Jeffinphl@aol.com) ------------------------------ From: Sergio Faissol Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:07:24 -0800 Subject: how to get tapes >Return-Path: >Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:18:16 >From: Spump@gnn.com (A. Mitchell) >To: faissol@ix.netcom.com > >Dear Dan, >. How can I get one? If you >don't know, do you know who I can ask? I'm dying to get those Hey Arthur, I got my tapes from a very generous fellow list member. I don't know if I can copy them for you but I will if I can. I'll ask if I can copy them for you. I'm sure I can, but I just don't want to assume anything. Dan ------------------------------ From: Sergio Faissol Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:07:26 -0800 Subject: Re: Jewel posters or shirts? >Return-Path: >Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:35:09 -0500 >From: JACOBUS_JARED_G >To: faissol@ix.netcom.com >Subject: Re: Jewel posters or shirts? >X-Vms-To: SMTP%"SMTP%faissol@ix.netcom.com@eagle.liunet.edu" > >Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:35:09 +0200 (IST) >From: JACOBUS_JARED_G >Subject: Re: Jewel posters or shirts? >To: "SMTP%faissol@ix.netcom.com"@eagle.liunet.edu >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >I just happen to have an extra Jewel poster. Summer 96' promotional. > > SuPeRdEfOrMeD aNgEl Hey! Do you mean extra as in I can have it? I can pay for postage or whatever if you want. Thanks Dan ------------------------------ From: Eric Haglund Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:17:44 +0500 Subject: Re: Favorite lines or quotes "Goldilocks, well she knew three bears, they all ate oatmeal and tip-toed upstairs." - -Sometimes It Be That Way "I guess that's just what you get when you forget to dream."- Nikos ------------------------------ From: haze@earthlink.net Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:28:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Favorite lines or quotes This seems to be my favorite: "And though they were never lovers they were soulmates undercover." Jessica ------------------------------ From: racecardriver2@kktv.com Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:21:54 -0500 Subject: Aggh! Jeezey Petes I hate Computers!!!!!! :) Hi EDA people!! Well, I totally filled up my last...hmm....3 accounts and so I've had to move to yet another Jewel friendly account.....RaceCarDriver2@kktv.COM.....lesson to be extracted : delete delete delete!! Jared: I got your last message, and I'll reply when I damn well feel like it. Greg: Resub me to the toni list. :) Lovez to you all. Chelsea **sig under small bits of construction!** ------------------------------ From: Trent Smith Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: This whole anti-popularity thing Before I get started, let me preface this by saying that this trend of "anti-popularity" that's shown up in the last couple of days bothers me on a number of levels, and that I've held off posting about it until now so as to avoid saying something rude. I don't mean to single Mike out here, it's just that his was the most recent post on the topic. On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:42:01 -0500 (EST), Michael Jones wrote: >Artists range from Billy Joel & Madonna (I cringe at calling her an >'artist'), who are in bed with the record producers to make money on >records to Neil Young , who couldn't give a f*** about selling a record. >All these artists have pressure to sell music. How could it not have an >impact on their work? To this I've gotta say "so?" All that you've shown is that, while there may be pressure to succeed, some artists will prostitute themselves for it and some won't. While Entertainment Weekly may call Jewel a Madonna-in-training (yes, I'm still bitter about that one!), all the evidence I've seen so far points much more towards the Neil Young school (including the fact that she recorded her first album and toured with Neil himself). It seems to me that an artist has to be a willing accomplice to selling him- or herself out. >Did you ever wonder why YWMFM was remixed/recorded as a single? Perhaps >to make it more palatable to the kind of fan Hansen is disdainfully >talking about. What was wrong with the CD version? I can imagine some >record company clown counting the extra sales caused by the remix. >Are additional sales good for Jewel? Obviously. But, it that the version >she would have wanted? Unless I missed something from before I subscribed to this list, I can't find any evidence that the new version of YWMFM was created for purely commercial reasons against Jewel's wishes. Any claims that they were making it "more palatable" seem pretty weak since all they really did was speed it up very slightly and add some harmony vocals. Sure, the vocal delivery is quite a bit different between the two versions, but I think more than anything else that reflects the changes from almost two years of constant performing since the original was recorded: her vocal style is becoming more confident and also more "mannered". I suppose some would consider this to be "selling out" in some way, but I don't really understand how-- the new style doesn't seem (to me) any more audience-friendly or commercial. It's not like the record company just took the original version and added a disco beat to it or anything. Sure the record company clowns are going to be happy about generating extra sales (although they tripped themselves up by mis-labeling the cd to make it seem like an album track: "New Previously Unreleased Version" would seem like a better sales-generating ploy), but I don't see that as necessarily being incompatible with the artist's happiness and individual expression. Is this the version she would have wanted? I don't see why not. After all, she recorded it, and the original's still there on the cd like it's always been. Even though I like the original better (as of now), I'm still happy to have this new version just for variety's sake, and to hear something that was recorded in a studio less than two years ago. >Did you ever wonder what Jewel's take is on her sales? Since she is >a relatively new artist, I would bet it's less than 15%. She is getting >just a small part of the total take while having to submit to music >manipulation and crass marketing at shows like GMA. (I don't claim to >know how Jewel herself feels about these issues; however, do you really >think she prefers GMA to a small club?) I dunno. 15% of a million sold still seems like pretty much to me. I don't know what you mean by GMA, but I'm guessing "big festival/arena type show" would be an appropriate interpretation, to which I say: even with all the success she's had, she's not THAT big that she has to play huge shows and can't play an occasional small(ish) club when she wants to. Besides, if her new album doesn't meet with much success (God forbid!), once her "novelty" value wears off she'll find herself playing those small clubs again. I'd be willing to bet at the very least that she'd rather have a choice between the small and large. >However, Jewel does have to eat and no doubt enjoys the popularity. I am >happy that her dream has come true and I do want her to be successful. >But, in order to be successful in this business you have to please fans >who will never know who the real Jewel is or how she got started. I don't really see how "knowing who the real Jewel is or how she got started" really makes a difference as long as you enjoy the music. Those who care about such things are going to find them out anyway, whether or not she's a big superstar, and same is true (vice versa) for those who don't care. If anything, it seems like more success, as long as she doesn't let it go to her head and all of the company execs aren't completely brain-dead, could actually make her better able to express Who She Is through her music: if that's the "formula" that works, they're going to keep doing it. And furthermore, aside from all of that, who says that Jewel even wants for people to know "the real Jewel and how she got started" outside of her music? I've never met her, but she seems like a pretty private person who might be much more comfortable with people experiencing her through her music than through (pardon) fannish activity, and the best way for people to experience her music is for them to hear it, which is why I say the more people who hear her music the better. >-mike I'm sorry if that sounded over-vehement. I don't mean to jump all over anybody, but I just really disagree with these folks who seemingly want to keep Jewel and her music unknown and exclusive as if that's going to make it somehow better and felt that I had to say so. Unless she somehow gets to the ungodly Michael Jackson-esque realm of fame and celebrity (which, face it, is never going to happen) where she can no longer lead any sort of normal life, and as long as she doesn't "lose herself" (which I see no evidence of), then the more people she reaches, the more success she has, the better. Period. Selling a million records is better than selling 5,000. There, I've said my piece. Go ahead and call me hopelessly naive and stupid for thinking such things, I can take it. Trent Smith ------------------------------ From: CornflkGl@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:44:28 -0500 Subject: NJC : The Fuschia one's favorite quotes & lines Yes, people do actually call me fuschia. Strange, but... I'm over it :). Anyway, my #1 favorite line of Jewel's is " Well, I am tired of this CAPRICIOUS game"- Marital Carnival. Go figure ! Some other favorites.... " Our standard of living somehow got stuck on survive "- Deep Water "We are Everyday Angels" - I'm Sensitive- a CLASSIC !!! "I've been saving myself my whole life for some mother fucker like you" - My Own Private God's Gift To Women "Heaven is hard and hell is not worth fighting for" - Billy "It's probably laughter that gets us what we need much more than tears" - Uh.... I don't know which song this is :) "Oh God, what do I do, I'm a thousand miles away and lying next to you " - 1000 Miles Away "I'm sorry I never got to find you like this, sleeping like a baby and swaddled in bliss" - Sometimes It Be That Way "You say she's unattractive, that she doesn't turn you on- but that expression on your face ain't exactly a yawn" - A Very Big Girl "Oh great, I gotta listen to her snivel again " - A Housewife's Revenge "I'll take back my songs and my poetry, next time I won't be so easy to read..." - CARNIVORE I'm sure there's more.... but those pretty much top the list. Hee hee.... Rachel :) ------------------------------ From: Selena Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:39:12 -0800 Subject: Re: My Favorite Line My favorite line is from "flower" "She's a flower that grows despite cinnamon toast, and she will survive" Selena :) ------------------------------ From: Anthony Trudeau Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:51:19 -0600 Subject: RE: NJC: Freedom of choice The answer to your first question is yes and no. It is not your decision, it is not my decision, it is everyone's decision. As far as you drawing that line, it's not going to happen, we are not a dictatorship, one person doesn't say what goes. And, I still hold to my believe that no one should lose their rights. I agree with you when you said "if they have no channel, and are asking me for one..." In that case go with your beliefs. I think at this point we have been debating the freedom of speech a little deeper than that. You have a right to your beliefs, and in this case your vote, I in no way disagree with that. I don't agree that we would be guilty of anything. A person acts on their own accord. If a dedicated (and very mentally ill) Christian kills someone out of a misinterpretation of the Bible is his priest guilty of accessory to murder? No. In the example you gave the answer was yes to guilty. My point, every situation is different. Why haven't all the pro-lifers been stifled and not allowed to speak their voice? They have known to be quite violent. And I am not excluding pro-choicers either. Freedom is a wonderful thing. We can't taint it by limiting certain "questionable" or "unsavory" groups. It has to be absolute, or it does not work. Every time you make an exception or an exclusion you weaken the word that made it what it was. Tony Trudeau home: agate@goldengate.net work: ttrudeau@fs.com - ---------- From: Reggev Michael[SMTP:reggev@post.tau.ac.il] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 1996 10:58 AM To: Anthony Trudeau Cc: Jewel - Everyday Angels Subject: RE: NJC: Freedom of choice Yes, the freedom of speech is also there so the minority will always have a voice, but can we give up the right of the yet-to-be born majority to always have a voice, in favour of the voice of one current minority? I draw the line and say that one group doesn't have a voice at the point where that group says I don't have the right for a voice, be it in the form of denying my right of speech, or be it in the form of denying my right to exist. I am not punishing this group. If they had a channel, and I would be fighting to get it closed, that would be to punish that group. However, if they have no channel, and are asking me for one - which they are - then I have every right, and every obligation, not to give it to them if I feel they will abuse it. We are not talking about people who commited crimes and now regret it, and are trying to find assistance from one another. We are talking about a group which gather to violate other peoples' rights. If we were to give them that channel, we would be just as guilty when that violation occurs. If you know that Mr Smith will murder Mr Black if given the chance, and you sell Mr Smith a gun, and show him the way to Mr Black's house, then you are an accessory to murder. Pure and simple. 42, Tuff - the ILi EDA ------------------------------ From: Anthony Trudeau Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:54:14 -0600 Subject: RE: secret santa FYI - This Tuesday was the last "recommended" day to send anything surface mail if you want it to reach your destination by Christmas. Tony Trudeau home: agate@goldengate.net work: ttrudeau@fs.com - ---------- From: Laura Capello[SMTP:lcapello@student.longview.cc.mo.us] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 1996 4:37 AM To: jewel@smoe.org Subject: secret santa okay folks... duff and i are sending out who you are recieving for your secret santas. now remember, a foreign EDA may receive you, so items may be a lil late. capello the giving and recieving of gifts begins this monday and last for four weeks. duff thanks duff capello ------------------------------ From: Crash Boy Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 04:07:19 +0000 Subject: Z100 Jingle Ball Line-up haven't seen this posted yet, so here it is: The Z100 Jingle Ball Concert at Madison Square Garden on December 5th, 1996, will feature: Jewel Sarah McLachlan Tracy Chapman Sheryl Crow No Doubt Susanna Hoffs (formerly of The Bangles) Shawn Colvin Patti Rothberg Leah Andreone last year, they added more to their line-up, but nothing's been said about that yet, so i doubt it. i personally would've loved to seen in the line-up: garbage, lush, echobelly, ani difranco, dar williams, and eleanor mcevoy. oh well. eric :) ------------------------------ From: Crash Boy Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 04:07:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Jingle Ball=Sell Outs personally, i've pretty much ignored sean hooks' inane posts before, but this time, i've got to say something. >I have constantly expressed my desire for her career to follow the career >path of Tracy Chapman. so you want jewel to have one big hit, have comedians make fun of her hair, then have her have another hit 5 years later? >Sarah McLaughlin, though I don't like her music, except for "Possessions" >which really is a very good song, is at least a credible true alternative >artist. credible because no one will play her songs or show her videos? i'm a huge sarah fan, but i'm dismayed that no one else is enlightened to her except by friends. she's a great talent, but it's kind of hard to determine how much one will like an artist based on one song. sean probably likes "Possession" because Z100's played it over and over forever, and it's just grown on him. "I Will Remember You" received a brief life on radio and VH1, but the keyword is brief. i don't even see "Possession" on VH1 anymore. >Leah Andreone is another Patti Rothberg, ie:one hit wonder i guess you're some sort of fortune teller, eh? while i personally don't like patti rothberg all that much, i appreciate the fact that she was a struggling new york musician for quite some time. i don't know that much about leah andreone, but i have her album, and it's great! and according to other EDAs, she's awesome live. >No Doubt is commercial crap. Sheryl Crow is now though her first album is >pretty decent. no doubt's been together since 1987. they've had their drummer and guitarist replaced once, the original lead singer (a guy) died, and their keyboardist left to concentrate on animating for 'The Simpsons'. and sheryl crow had 3 singles off of her first album that were routinely played on Z100, so i don't know how having one single off her second album played makes her commercial crap now. does someone being played by Z100 automatically put you off to them? >Z100, the enemy, the heinously mainstream, is sponsoring this concert. Do >not call them asking to ply Jewel or YWMFM. If anything, call WNEW, the >New York station that was playing WWSYS almost a full year before Z100 >jumped on the bandwagon. so you would rather have WNEW play YWMFM for one year before Z100 started playing it? wouldn't that constitute WNEW for being the 'enemy' for playing mainstream music? and even worse, they're playing mainstream music before it becomes mainstream! oh the horror! >I am not attending the Jingle Ball. oh, i'm sorry. >Please, don't complain after you've seen the Jingle Ball and Jewel's >thirty minute set and having to suffer through the rest of the show(that >part is my opinion, I know most of the people on this list prob'ly >disagree meaning that they actually like the other artists), just don't >complain, you were warned. thanks for the warning, but i won't complain, because i like the other artists (oh, no, i'm bad), and i'm well aware that each artists' set will be short, so i'm not expecting every single song off of every one of their albums. sure, the purpose of these concerts is to make money and bring recognition to the radio station, but they also bring together a lot of artists that no one would have ever listened to. and in my case, they bring together artists that i enjoy, which in my opinion will make for a great show. think about it. most people will come to the concert because one or two of their favorite artists will be there. unknown to them, they'll be exposed to: more than one sarah mclachlan song, see jewel's wonderful stage presence, the underrated music of shawn colvin, etc. everyone will be exposed to these artists a hell of a lot more than Z100 ever will. will they like every artists? maybe not. but they'll have seen and heard the artists and their music and be able to form an opinion of whether or not they like them enough to buy their album(s), tell their friends about them, find web sites about them, join their mailing lists, etc. >So again, the Jingle Ball is sell-out, mainstream, corporate, MTV-inspired >crap. It's an excuse for sixteen year old girls to yell for "I'm Just A >Girl," and "If It Makes You Happy," and "Who Will Save Your Soul." God >they prob'ly won't even know "Leaving Las Vegas" or "Fast Car." And it is >for their boyfriends who will go to the concert and get nothing out of the >it except for the pleasure of staring at Jewel's tits and Gwen Stefani's >stomach and ass. Don't support it. do you really think people are so ignorant as to not know "Leaving Las Vegas" or "Fast Car"? you obviously don't think very highly of many people, let alone teeny-boppers. both songs were heavily played by Z100 when they came out, and these same teeny-boppers were probably listening to Z100 then. hell, i know my friends were listening to Z100 when they were 11. now they're 22. and you obviously don't think very highly of males, eh? thank you for sticking up for your sex. sure, there are a lot of asshole guys out there, but there's also just as many nice guys like me, and i'm assuming, sometimes, you. sure, guys will stare at big tits, tight stomachs, and nice asses, but guess what? it's natural! it's hormones! >PS: There is but one redeeming thing to those who are already locked into >their tickets, Jewel will prob'ly do a Christmas song, one she's never >done live before. Other than that though, enjoy being part of Jewel's >downfall. oh yeah, i can see it now in the papers on december 6th: "Jewel's Career Over! Z100 Performance Doomed Her." sure, right. and don't worry, sean, i'll tape the Z100 concert and enjoy listening to it over and over. just like the Tradewinds concert. eric :) ------------------------------ From: Anthony Trudeau Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:04:19 -0600 Subject: RE: NJC: Freedom of choice BTW - Thanks for this discussion, I have enjoyed this debate. - ---------- From: Reggev Michael[SMTP:reggev@post.tau.ac.il] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 1996 10:58 AM To: Anthony Trudeau Cc: Jewel - Everyday Angels Subject: RE: NJC: Freedom of choice Yes, the freedom of speech is also there so the minority will always have a voice, but can we give up the right of the yet-to-be born majority to always have a voice, in favour of the voice of one current minority? I ------------------------------ From: Thirza Pearl Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:56:10 +0100 Subject: Re: This whole anti-popularity thing Dear Trent, That was a wonderful speech you wrote regarding the anti popularity thing, I dont like it that people want to keep Jewel's music "all to them selves" Do they own her? No. So it is really not up to them. I wouldnt mind her becoming big just as long as she remembers what her music is all about and doesnt get caught up in the drug music scene. I dont think she will ever Become >"micheal Jackson-esque" She seems way to grounded for that. if you all recall She dedicated a song to her fans because she said "I know that I am would not be here without my fans" (sorry if it is not an exact quote.) Anyone who would say something like that has to be a pretty unique person, i really doubt that she will ever "lose herself" Thirza Pearl ------------------------------ From: hgladman@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 16:11:03 EST Subject: Re[2]: This whole anti-popularity thing You know even if she becomes really big and it all goes to her head just a bit for a while, we can all find it in ourselves to forgive that can't we? I know we all think she's perfect, but she's not (as we discussed once before - god don't I remember that thread) and I think any of us who had a chance at 'the big time' would run the risk of losing our heads momentarily. I heard a while ago that the Cranberries are disillusioned with how big they've become and plan to retire from the hype and try and find what they were meant to be again. So many of the performers we love are young, younger than some of us, and the bright lights are very bright. Let's just hope if Jewel runs away with the hype for a bit, she gets over it real fast and we can be understanding. Helen ------------------------------ From: Ray DeJean Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:33:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Quick questions Did anyone see the Lifetime Fight Against Cancer on Lifetime TV (with host Olivia Newton John?) What song(s) did Jewel perform?? - -Ray rdejean@neosoft.com ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V1 #763 ***************************