From: owner-jewel-digest To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V1 #539 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "jewel-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. jewel-digest Wednesday, 4 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 539 Today's Subjects: ----------------- the video Re: Why Judge her at all? I love it when Hiranya posts stuff like this Re: Did I miss Jewel on GMA? Re: Why Judge her at all? Re: I love it when Hiranya posts stuff like this Thank you Hiranya NJC old wisdom from Jewel (as always) re: judging her too quickly Re: Jewel got more interview time than most A poem Begging for a VCR!! current BULLSH*T- Letterman Show RE: Why Judge Her At All? RE: Why Judge Her At All? Re: judging anyone too quickly Re: MTV Awards - Jewel is gonna surprise and win one!!!! Jewelless GMA; Hiranya: Master of Guilt Re: What the hell perhaps you misunderstood... NJC: The world around us ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hiranya@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:43:40 -0400 Subject: the video I just saw the rough cut! It is such a great video, I really love it. It is very blue (in color). Steve Poltz sort of co stars. Can't wait to see it on the air. Hiranya ------------------------------ From: "Peter Jones" Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 10:03:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Why Judge her at all? Hear Hear! ------------------------------ From: pjk@cybercom.net (Phil Kelnhofer) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:27:09 -0400 Subject: I love it when Hiranya posts stuff like this Hiranya wrote: >What do we expect of public people? Do we need >to get a life? Rather than holding our breath in fear she >might CHANGE, why not put that energy into guiding our own >change in ways that we will be able to honor OURSELVES. Thank you, Hiranya, for (hopefully) ending this debate. It must be weird for you as a friend (and employee) of Jewel to read threads like these. I have said many times that Jewel should do whatever she wants with her career. People grow and change, and that's just the way it is. Jewel is a great artist and a great person, but we are her FANS. We do not own her. She can do what she wants. With every change she may lose some old fans and gain new ones (hopefully the gains out-number the loses), but she should not remain the same for our sake. I was looking through some old digests (I have back to #208 archived on my own computer - I had back to #88 but I had to delete some of them) and back nearly four months ago there was an nearly indentical discussion on whether or not Jewel's personality had changed. Of course there was also a week long debate on wether or not she was gay after she wore a rainbow belt (and I still don't know what that means) The more things change, ... Phil ------------------------------ From: amelie@juno.com (Amelie R Cabanas-Brown) Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 10:21:01 EDT Subject: Re: Did I miss Jewel on GMA? On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:29:22 -0400 "Peter Jones" writes: >I watched GMA from 7:30 to 9:00 this morning (Wednesday, 9/4), and did >not see Jewel doing the MTV behind the scenes report. Did they run >her >bit in the first half hour? No, you did not miss Jewel. I watched from 7:00am to 9:00am and I didn't see Jewel either. Amelie ------------------------------ From: Chopped Liver Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: Why Judge her at all? Alright! You tell 'em, girl. [disclaimer: the above is a possitive response in agreement the sentiments expressed by Hiranya.] Chopped Liver (Charlie) watkins@selway.umt.edu ------------------------------ From: "Michael Rubin" Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:56:54 -5:00 Subject: Re: I love it when Hiranya posts stuff like this - -Of course there was also a week - -long debate on wether or not she was gay after she wore a rainbow belt (and - -I still don't know what that means) Phil, The rainbow has been adopted by the gay community as a symbol of freedom. Hope that clarifies that....regarding Jewel changes AMEN-We all spend way too much time OBSESSING!!!! Let's deal with the music and antecdotal notes about Jewel...I don't care if she looks like she has to pee...she's a big girl...er...woman and she knows what to do if nature calls---she definitely spoke about it enough at Jewelstock :) :) :) 100% Flame Retardant, Michael :) Michael D. Rubin Product Manager, CD-Recorders Olympus Image Systems, Inc. Two Corporate Center Drive Melville, New York, 11747, USA (800) 347-4027 X 5312 ------------------------------ From: Karl M Fields Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Thank you Hiranya I was in the process of gathering support for a long letter discussing my opinion on Jewel's attire on the Letterman show (which I have yet to see), but it seems Hiranya has let the air out of my little rubber raft. I was going to say just about what she said (honest). The thesis was to focus on respecting the decisions Jewel decides to make for herself rather than accusing her of selling out to stardom. If all went right it would have been a 100 page dissertation suitable for binding. But, it seems, Hiranya said it all, and for that I thank her. I have to go to class in 10 minutes. (I am semi-serious here, honest.) Karl M Fields kmf29184@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu ------------------------------ From: Larry G Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NJC Is it my imagination, or is the biggest NJC, BY FAR, the debate about NJC? (This is a rhetorical question; no answers are really being sought here.) ------------------------------ From: Sabra Richardson Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Subject: old wisdom from Jewel (as always) Jewel was rather pleased in the early days that this list was not a forum for petty gossip. But the inevitable occured: "... it was a little disarming to read [on the internet] what I had eaten for dinner the night before. They wrote 'she had chicken noodle soup before the show, and it looks like she's toning down her clothes for a more conventional look.' I was like 'Oh my God, now they're doing fashion critiques.' That was really unnerving." From Jewel's mouth to your eyes, there you have it. It would be nice to see more discussion about her music (can't say there's not enough of it to talk about) and her poetry rather than the "are her emotions fake" and "she looked really sexy" posts. But oh well. You never get what you want... I think people saying that the NJC debate takes up more space than any other NJC posts are in for a little surprise. There, I just added one. But who's counting? :) sabra (your Jewel-quote headquarters) ------------------------------ From: "The Great Cornholio" Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:45:22 EDT Subject: re: judging her too quickly It's just my opinion, but I can definitely see why people here "pounce" on Jewel wearing different clothing. DeformedAngel stated that we should be easier on her, that she is only human, and that's true. But what we have to realize is that certain clothing projects an image, even if it a false image, of a person, and that Jewel's more down-home kind of clothing gives a down-home image which many of us here adhere to. I agree that it's wrong for us to judge her solely on her clothes and that it's none of our business what she wears, but her clothing on Letterman scared some of us. It didn't look like she usually looks and that made some of us nervous. We don't want her to become too popular and forget us, and this is a perfectly normal human reaction. We also feel jealous, especially the males, of her wearing something so obviously sensual. We have no rational reason to be jealous and scared, but we're only human. I think one of the things that the people who criticize us for blabbering on about her appearance have to realize is that EDA's isn't meant to be literal. We're not perfect angels. We're human. And if Jewel thinks that we're being silly by commenting on her clothing, then she needs a taste of reality. She means something to us, and when and if she changes, some of us will note the change. This is the price she payed by letting us be "friends", so to speak. I know from experience that if one of my friends changes, I talk about it to other people. Like I said before, we're only human. later gators, newt "The wonderful thing about Tiggers is Tiggers are wonderful things Their tops are made out of rubber Their bottoms are made out of springs They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy, Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun About the most wonderful thing about Tiggers is I'm the only one I'M THE ONLY ONE!"- Tigger in "Winnie the Pooh and the Blustery Day" ------------------------------ From: "Zooberries" Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:13:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Jewel got more interview time than most >I read a bunch of complaints that Letterman dissed Jewel by not interviewing >her, but he NEVER interviews the musical guests (except that famous f**k >episode w/ Madonna) NOT True...did anyone watch Letterman Last night? [Tuesday]...He talked to BECK for about five minutes. NOT FAIR!!! zoo =================== "the truly bookish will mate on the strenght of a spine" =================== FIONA APPLE PAGE http://members.aol.com/zooberries/htm/fiona.htm FIONA APPLE Mailing List FionaList@aol.com ------------------------------ From: random@frugal.com Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:13:27 -0700 Subject: A poem this is the long dark tea time of the soul this is when you wake up and smell the herbs and wonder where the time has went this is the long dark tea time of the soul this is where you see the death and distruction around you and wonder what happen to the colors of life this is the long dark tea time of the soul this is the time you become conscious and wonder what are you doing here this is the long dark tea time of the soul this is when you loose the ability to love and wonder why you are lonley this is the long dark tea time of the soul this is when you kneel in prayer and wonder if god has forsaken you this is the long dark tea time of the soul this is when you resourt to other forms of plesure and wonder what happned to your hero this is the long dark tea time of the soul and this is the end of the poem and you wonder if there is more Random ------------------------------ From: Tom Proven Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 04:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Begging for a VCR!! Could someone who can, tape the video awards for me? I have class from 5-10 PM and will therefore miss just about everything. My VCR won't tape MTV--yes it's *that* old. I would hate to miss Miss Kilcher's entrance, should they choose to show it. And of course who could stand to miss her acceptance speech where she thanks us angels. Plus, I always dig the pre and after-show stuff. Often more than the show itself. I don't need it for permanent storage only as a favor on a temporary loan. Thanks a ton in advance. Your late night Angel, Tom Tom Proven e-mail: provent@pls.lib.ca.us "Blind vision. Blind faith. You really can't rely On what they tell you for effect." ------------------------------ From: Kevin Young Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 13:27:14 -0400 Subject: current BULLSH*T- Letterman Show Hey EDA's, Who cares what Jewel looked like or how long she was interviewed. She is a great up and coming singer/songwriter. Enjoy her songs and forget the rest,Jewel will take care of the details. Peace, Kevin ------------------------------ From: Kevin Bruce Pease Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 14:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: Why Judge Her At All? > From: Hiranya@aol.com > Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:43:33 -0400 > Subject: Why Judge her at all? > A very famous makeup artist offered to do Jewel's makeup for > the show and she said sure, why not see what thats about. So > that was the result. Whats wrong with that. When you see > her video you'll see a very under made-up Jewel. At her shows > she never wears stage make up at all. Sometimes she likes to > doll up. WHO CARES! I think the thing that's missing from this discussion is... perspective. So she wore makeup? As Hiranya put it... WHO CARES? It's the same person and the same music... unless somebody wants to argue that makeup, somehow, makes the person... and I've yet to see somebody who's music I don't like put on enough makeup to make me like their music... This type of attitude really bothers me... I think we all like to consider ourselves "Jewel's #1 fan," around here... But... there's a big difference between admiring someone and loving their music, and having that person somehow be answerable to you when she does something that you don't happen to like... Jewel's a person, first and foremost... she has a wonderful talent... but she is not, in any way, our puppet (perhaps Paper Doll is more appropriate here... you can dress them up how you like them). Seriously, folks... I saw her on Letterman, and I said, 'Huh. She looks different. Oh well. Good tune.' And, is it at all possible that, maybe, just maybe, Jewel could enjoy dressing up and looking good, not because she feels she has to "package herself" for the masses, but just because she (and I know this is a big stretch) LIKES to every now and then? The only people I know who don't like to get fixed up every now and then are 6 feet underground in little pine boxes... So, let's all step back, take a deep breath, and count to ten. > What do we expect of public people? Do we need > to get a life? Rather than holding our breath in fear she > might CHANGE, why not put that energy into guiding our own > change in ways that we will be able to honor OURSELVES. "Everybody's so different, and I haven't changed..." I think Hiranya makes a pretty good point. If Jewel changes, and you don't like the changes she makes, then nobody's forcing you to go out and buy her album, or attend her concerts, or anything remotely like that... If Jewel were to decide she wanted to be a rap artist tomorrow, I wouldn't like that change, and probably wouldn't buy any of her subsequent rap albums, but that wouldn't ruin my enjoyment of Pieces of You... Instead of working myself into a self-righteous rage at her "betrayal", I'd say, "Oh well," and go on about my life, and let her go on about hers. - ---------- Kevin Pease kestrel@WPI.EDU ------------------------------ From: random@frugal.com Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:12:27 -0700 Subject: RE: Why Judge Her At All? I think that theis whole thing is blowen out of porpotion we fan have gotten so oued of see jewel as the girl next door that when we saw he on the dl show it put us in to shock i know it did to me. I'm sure wel will see jewel back in her old attire and more often then not in her new attire. And all i can say is Live with it i know i will. Random ------------------------------ From: telliamed@juno.com (Pat Brown) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:52:12 EST Subject: Re: judging anyone too quickly On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:45:22 EDT "The Great Cornholio" writes: >wears, but her clothing on Letterman scared some of us. It didn't >look like she usually looks and that made some of us nervous. We 'Usually' should never be confused with 'should be.' >perfectly normal human reaction. We also feel jealous, especially >the males, of her wearing something so obviously sensual. We have no >rational reason to be jealous and scared, but we're only human. I "What we call human nature in actuallity is human habit." - ----- telliamed@juno.com ### All opinions expressed are yours. You have only yourself to blame. ### ------------------------------ From: Jay Notte Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 14:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MTV Awards - Jewel is gonna surprise and win one!!!! But Jewel isn't like raaaiaaaaain, on your wedding day, now is she? Jay (the anti-Alanis militia member) ------------------------------ From: The Pirate King Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 11:57:54 -0700 Subject: Jewelless GMA; Hiranya: Master of Guilt It indeed looks as if Jewel was bumped off of Good Morning America. I'm neither surprised nor disapproving, since tactical strikes against Iraq and looming hurricanes are just a LEETLE BEET more important than the MTV Video Music Awards. She may still have slipped from the collective eye though, since I only scanned the first forty minutes and another Lister watched the last hour and a half. I'll leave it recorded on the tape until I get confirmation. And of course she's bound to be on the Awards tonight. "Jewel! Jewel! She's our gal! If she can't do it, call George Pal!" No one can resist the Pillsbury doughboy, hee-hee! Now, let's thoroughly ingratiate ourselves ... Hiranya wrote: >A very famous makeup artist offered to do Jewel's makeup for >the show and she said sure, why not see what thats about. So >that was the result. Was the artist a guy? TELL HER TO MARRY HIM! RIGHT NOW! Or at least get him or her on Jewel's permanent payroll. That was a look definitely worth repeating, though I bet she looked like a Claymation figure in person that night, since I think the artists really have to cake it on to make the guests appear normal under the solar-quality TV lights. >When you see her video you'll see a very under made-up Jewel. "In fact, she looks kind of like Howard Cosell in it. THEN we'll see how you feel about make-up!" >At her shows she never wears stage make up at all. Sometimes she likes to >doll up. WHO CARES! That's why I was so DEVASTATED! I have nevereverever seen Jewel Kilcher look that gorgeous before, not in Santa Cruz, not in San Francisco, never on TV. And she looked plenty good ALL of those times. Well, I think her Letterman incarnation achieved its desired effect in me, though it took a rather circuitous route to get there. Aren't you ever frazzled when you see someone you know cosmetically enhanced to a brand new level? Girls I see every day can totally throw me off kilter -- or in Jewel's case, off Kilcher, HAHAHAHAHA ahem -- when I see them in an Estee Lauder-assisted mode. Usually I stumble over my words on the way to saying, "You look wonderful," but with abundant time and a Netcom account, I write an essay on Revlon Transformation. And like I said, her professional quality had little to do with the makeup or her clothes; she just seemed to RADIATE confidence. And if that absolute absence of fear was just an act, then Jewel Kilcher is a pretty good actress to boot. >And really, how can Jewel change the fact that she is constructed >like she is? Well, she could eat a truckload of Hostess cupcakes if she wants to, but I like Jewel's construction plenty the way it is. Ewwww, strange how lechery oozes through even the most innocent words, isn't it? >She cannot avoid people responding to her appearance because she is very >beautiful and sexy without trying. Why should she have to go to great pains to >underplay that? She shouldn't. But nobody should be surprised when normally reserved blokes such as myself start staring and muttering "Oh ... my ... God ..." I'm not going to start yelling the lyrics to "My Own Private God's Gift to Women" at her, but I can't exactly help it when my eyes catch on fire. >Jewel cannot promise to be on and available all the time. Just like us, >she is sometimes overwhelmed, timed, grumpy and just cannot respond. Maybe I should give her a ChiaPet in Fresno to get her in a good mood. With my luck her cat is going get run over, her accountant is going to embezzle all her savings, and she's going to contract Ebola, all the night before her show. Does she like rabbits or puppies? Wait, I know. ChiaBear, obviously. Think they sell Chias with purple moss? >Do we need to get a life? Well, yeah. But right now I need to get a lunch. Hell hath no fury like Hiranya scorned. And me when I find a black rice krispy in an otherwise pure box. - - Carter Navarro, Krispy Bigot ------------------------------ From: Jay Notte Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: What the hell Yet another at SU. She's gotta play up here, I don't want any excuses. Jay On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Brett M. Eskin wrote: > I haven't posted in quite a while. Busy At Old SYRACUSE U. The list has > gone bonkers. Everyone just settle the hell down. :>. > > --Brett > ------------------------------ From: "The Great Cornholio" Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:11:00 EDT Subject: perhaps you misunderstood... I think that some of you misunderstood what I was trying to say, because all I've seen so far is commentary flaying me. When I said what I said, it was meant to show people that there is no call for criticizing someone who was angry/confused/disheartened by this change in appearance. I don't care, either, if she wears different clothing and makeup and etc. What I do care about is seeing other people being flayed for caring. It's not their fault. It's just a simple, and reasonable, reaction. Hiranya can say that she's just herself and that Jewel's appearance doesn't matter, and I agree with that, but she, and everyone who agrees with her, should realize, like I realize, that other people might get nervous if she starts to change. Yes, she probably just did it because she felt like looking different for the show. Yes, we shouldn't get our nickers in a twist. Yes, what we call human nature is in fact human habit. But old habits are hard to break and I don't like the superior attitude that I get from reading these posts. They sound like, "so, you didn't like the way Jewel dressed, huh? Well, you're just shallow and we're better than that." If that's not the case, then I apologize, but I don't care who you are or how close you are to Jewel, you should all consider others, too. In caring about Jewel, I think some of you have forgotten how to care about the people on this list. Don't reprimand anyone for being afraid of change, because none of you are any better. This goes for me, as well, which is why I always apologize when I say something like this post. I AM afraid of Jewel changing. I DO get nervous when people change their appearance. But you all have given perfectly good reasons for the change on Letterman. Just don't expect everyone to have the same ho- hum attitude about it as you, and don't reprimand them when they don't have the same attitude. later gators (is that getting old? I hope not, I like it), newt "The wonderful thing about Tiggers is Tiggers are wonderful things Their tops are made out of rubber Their bottoms are made out of springs They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy, Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun About the most wonderful thing about Tiggers is I'm the only one I'M THE ONLY ONE!"- Tigger in "Winnie the Pooh and the Blustery Day" ------------------------------ From: Jay Notte Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: NJC: The world around us Well, once again the nation is at war with Iraq. Once again violence has resulted in more violence and is solving nothing. I never considered myself a peace advocate or hippie if you will, but the stupidity of the human race as a whole is really beginning to astound me. Thousands dying over some piece of wasteland or the remanants of some dead dinosaur or something. People stepping over the starving homeless to protest fur. What is politics really solving? Who exactly had a tet-a-tet with the burning bush and decided the only way to solve a problem is through destruction. There is no talking anymore, no compromise. The lines separating us, country, religion, state, are making us forget about our fellow man. There is less unity as we divide into factions. The reality of this world is just too overwhelming for me at times. Sorry for this moment of cynicism, just something I wanted off my chest. Jay ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V1 #539 ***************************