From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V8 #33 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Saturday, February 1 2003 Volume 08 : Number 033 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe from this digest, send an email to * jewel-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY the word * unsubscribe in the BODY of the email * . * For the latest news on what Jewel is up to, go to * the calendar page at the OFFICIAL Jewel web site * at http://www.jeweljk.com/low/calendar.html * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: jewel-digest V8 #___ gives fellow list readers * no clue as to what your message is about. * Also, PLEASE do not quote an entire digest when you reply to the * list. Edit out anything you are not referring to. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:20:29 -0600 From: "Lew - New World Warehouse" Subject: [EDA] EDA shirts I had a question. I remember a few months ago someone was trying to come up with a shirt on Cafe Press for the EDAs and I think it got shot down for some legal reason or something like that....I'm not sure. Anyway, my band is on there right now and our drummer is a really talented comic style artist. I was thinking of maybe getting him to do a drawing of Jewel and put it on a shirt for the EDAs and putting it up on Cafe Press. Now, I'm pretty sure, I can't mention Jewel's name, but that's fine because as long as it says "Everyday Angels" or EDAs, it seems it would be cool for the most part. Is this gonna create any tension legally or otherwise ? Mike, let me know what you think on this because I don't want to get anyone in trouble...especially me. Heh. Lew www.coilback.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:35:13 -0600 From: "Lew - New World Warehouse" Subject: [EDA] Copyrighted Material Download, etc It's been awhile since I posted, so I figure, hey, might as well throw my two cents in on this. Being an artist, I know how much is SUCKS to not get credit for something and especially when you bust ass to do recordings, it sucks even more to not get paid. It always cracks me up when I hear people say, "well they have enough money..." to justify not buying people's CDs and downloading all the tunes instead. I don't believe if you were at work and putting in all your hours, you'd be too happy if you only got half of your paycheck and then the boss said, "well you aren't getting the rest because you have enough money." Regardless of what happens, when an artist makes a song (or any other work), they should get paid for it. They put in the work, they put in the time and they deserve it. So many people get a "Robin Hood" complex that they are noble for not giving money to "the system" (i.e. recording industry). The thing is, a lot of people don't realize, most artists don't make a whole lot from each CD sale. It's a very low percentage. A LOT lower than I think a LOT of you would expect. As for the copyright stuff....there's also the issue of publishing rights on a song. Now, I'm not sure how Jewel and Atlantic handles her unreleased material, but I know that many times, the record company retains a portion of publishing rights to a song (it's a little different than CD sales....basically, it's the thing you always hear about royalties coming from). Many times, this applies to unreleased material as well. At least with some of the bands I worked with it did. Sometimes, the material is slotted to be released at a later date, sometimes it's not. I know stuff like Rocker Girl, Cold Song and others appear on promo CDs like "Save the Linoleum" and "Phyllis Barnabee..." (which I have both..yay). While they aren't "selling" the songs, they still put in the time and money to record them. Which, any of you who have had to record will know, it's not as easy as many think. We are finishing up our new EP right now (5 songs) and we are 20 hours into it and still not done. As I said, I can't speak for the whole aspect of Jewel on this, because I'm not sure how they take care of stuff on her end, but I know that we are talking with a label right now who is possibly going to sign us and will be taking 50% of our publishing rights (which means they get half of everything and the band splits up the rest) which I'm told right now, is actually really decent (anyone with experience in this - I'd love some advice). We also get very low percentages on the CD sales as well. Either way, the point is, just because they don't put it up for sale doesn't mean you can "take the law into your own hands" and justify you downloading the song. I do agree, it's a little retarded how much labels like to "milk" an album for all it's worth before releasing anything new. In my opinion, that is what is causing the big slump in music sales. Not the internet. I'm sure the internet is playing a role, but if the record companies were not so greedy trying to get every little cent out of each album and would release newer material faster (for the bands that could hack it), then people would not get burnt out on an artist so quickly. Take the Beatles....they were releasing TWO albums a year at one point in time. It didn't give people the ability to get tired of the same old songs because by the time they were burnt out on stuff, the new album was out. It wouldn't hurt to bring back the "single" either instead of forcing people to buy an album for one song. If they'd do those two things, I'd be willing to bet that the industry would be banking again.....but who am I to say ? I'm not innocent by any stretch of the imagination because I've downloaded stuff too. I will state that if I feel an artist is decent after hearing their song, I will go buy the album even if I have already downloaded the whole thing, just so I can put in my money as support for making good music. If they suck - well then I kill the song and wait to see if they can come up with something better. Okay I'm done. Rant completed. Have a nice day. Lew www.coilback.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:58:47 -0800 From: "Larry G." Subject: Re: [EDA] Re: Copyright Stuff That's not the law at all. The copyright laws give the owner of the copyrights the exclusive right to make copies, subject to certain exceptions such as "fair use" in reporting facts and other matters. The exchange of money has never been a part of the U.S. copyright laws or the international copyright treaties to which the U.S. is signatory. - -=-Larry-=- Lisa wrote: > > How can it be illegal to download music when there's no money exchanged? > The law sais we can't make a copy of a pre-recorded cd & SELL it. > There's a big difference. It's not illegal to download music from WinMX, > Kazaa, etc in any way because there's no money exchanged. The music > industry just wants a piece of the action. > > -- > Join my forums! > > http://forums.delphiforums.com/dafanclub > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dafanclub > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jewelfans ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:18:21 -0600 From: "Lew - New World Warehouse" Subject: [EDA] Shirt Idea (part II) Well I was reading up on some legal stuff and I think the shirt idea might be ok. I read where it said that "caricatures" are technically considered somewhere under the whole parody thing which is legal. It just can't be a realistic drawing. I'm guessing a comic version would be considered a caricature. Either way, I plan to put any of the profits into Clearwater. What's the easiest way to go about that ? I'll keep you guys posted on any further updates. Lew www.coilback.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:46:08 -0000 From: "Chris Groves" Subject: [EDA] Goldie Hawn to direct Jewel's new movie? This is from an article at rollingstone.com... http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=17468 Jewel Gets Weird Singer-songwriting dabbling in new beats on upcoming album Even though Jewel only recently finished touring behind 2001's This Way, the singer has begun recording the follow-up, which she expects will be out in June. "I feel like records usually take too long," she says. "I wanted to do this right away." Jewel's sense of urgency comes from her interest in tackling timely subjects. Among the names checked in the new batch of songs: Pete Townshend, Roman Polanski, Jennifer Lopez and Charlie Sheen. "There's a lot of pop references," Jewel says. "Social commentary has always been a big part of my writing. And I know what I want to say to the world by summer. Beyond that I really can't say where politics is going to be, or culture." Though she says the new album is very "lyric-driven," she promises it will surprise a lot of her longtime fans musically. "This record's a really different record for me," Jewel says. "It's really a weird combination -- part dance, part hip-hop, part folk. It should be a really raw-sounding record. It sounds like me," she assures, "but you'll hear a lot of things in it." Jewel attributes the changes to her working with collaborators for the first time. "I'm writing with lots of people and having lots of fun," she says. "I'm not a very good guitar player, so by writing with other musicians, I can get things out that are in my head that I can't do with my hands." Her primary collaborator and co-producer is arranger/producer/keyboardist, Lester Mendez, who has worked with Shakira, Enrique Iglesias and Carole King. "He's very, very talented and you'll be hearing a lot about him," Jewel says. Jewel, who starred in the 1999 Ang Lee film Ride With the Devil, is also planning a return to the big screen. "I'm producing a film called Waves, and there's a part for me in it," she says. "And I don't think it's signed yet, but I think Goldie Hawn will be making her directorial debut . . . I don't know if I was supposed to say that." STEVE BALTIN (January 31, 2003) - ------------- Chris. http://www.jewelfan.co.uk : Jewel - Pieces Of UK http://pub70.ezboard.com/fmusicpromosdiscussionfrm14 : Official UK Jewel Forum ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:16:24 -0500 From: Lisa Subject: [EDA] Re: Copyright Stuff >>I want to know if the album is worthwhile. If their music meets my tastes, I'll buy their album.<< Ahhh, that's another point. Lots of people have done the same thing. File sharing is a great way to promote new music. But that's all it is- sharing. And since when is it against the law to share? All mothers teach their kids to "share & share alike", so why should this be any different? File sharing is the same as copying a cd or mp3s & giving it to a friend down the street. So what's the music industry gonna do then? Have the government bug everyone's computers? Have a cop follow you everywhere? I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly wouldn't want anyone monitoring my computer activity. Everyone has a right to privacy, & downloading music for my own personal/private use should be free. When the music industry first sued Napster, I heard lots of members say they would buy the music after downloading it. It's plain & simple- the music industry is greedy. MusicNet & Pressplay(both are fee based services) won't say how many members they have, & it's been speculated that it's because they're not doing well. How many people are willing to pay for downloading music when it's available for free(for the time being)? I would imagine not many. We all want to save money, right? I'm willing to bet not a single member on this list is paying to download mp3s. But if it's illegal, why aren't you paying? Because it's FREE! And that's the way it should be. - -- Join my forums! http://forums.delphiforums.com/dafanclub http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dafanclub http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jewelfans ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:44:27 +0100 From: "Michiel - van - Gorkum" Subject: [EDA] what happened to the original jewel merch store hello jewelfans, The Jewelmerch store with CHUCK and with JENNIFER that i met during Jewel4s New wild west tour in 2002 and CHUCK who i met in 2000 doesn4t run the Jewel merch store anymore?? Has Jewel threw them out of the group, and does jewel now do business with new merchandise fellows??? Can Mr BB maybe something clarify perhaps??? bye Michiel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:19:07 -0800 From: "Larry G." Subject: Re: [EDA] Re: Copyright Stuff It is and for the entire history of this country has been illegal to "share" property that does not belong to you. If you don't want to pay, that's your business. But it's incorrect to conclude that it's "free" just because you don't pay for it. Whether copyrighted property should be free is something about which anyone may have an opinion, and there are many valid arguments about what the law SHOULD be, but I again want to remind the members of this list that the record labels do monitor these lists and that there may be consequences to the list itself to the extent unlawful activity is promoted as well as to individuals who engage in it. - -=-Larry-=- Lisa wrote: > > > And since when is it against the law to share? > But if it's illegal, why aren't you paying? Because it's > FREE! And that's the way it should be. > > -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:09:51 -0800 (PST) From: Christy Subject: [EDA] Copyrighting I'm wondering if they mean people download 4.5 million albums worth of songs. For example, I have downloaded "Race Car Driver," "Carnivore," etc... Are they including those in the count?? I'll bet the count would still really be high, but still not so much. Atlantic definately needs to have Jewel to an album of her popular, currently unreleased stuff. I would buy that in a minute, and I would have to wait for my crappy connection to download her otherwise unattainable stuff... And, Mark, I'm the same way as you. I use downloads to educate myself about whether or not to buy an artist's album. Maybe that's another reason artist's are losing money... Instead of someone just buying that CD to check it out, they listen to part of it on the internet first, hate it, and don't buy it... But, overall, I agree with the legalities (though I'm not familiar with it all, obviously). Musicians and other artists deserve to make something for their hard work. You can say it's the system keeping us down, but it makes sense. If you run a store, but someone is giving the products that you have in your store away for free, are you going to make any money?? I do think it is illegal, and I think it should stay that way. But they can't make downloading go away. They need to figure out how to charge people for a monthly service (like MP3.com), or whatever works... I'm not saying I'll never download another song, but I do try to avoid dowloading released songs... Especially by Jewel, since I have all of her released stuff... I think I'm done now... :) Christy the Tattoed angel There you have it, though. Jewel's lost 4.5 million albums by it, so it *is* stealing. Even if its not released, it may become an issue if she wants to do older material sometime. The only unreleased Mp3s I have are Jewel songs and my angelfood. Im going to buy her albums regardless. When I download a released mp3 by another group, I stick to one or two from that album. I want to know if the album is worthwhile. If their music meets my tastes, I'll buy their album. ===== "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 01:34:58 -0200 From: "Fabio (wnet)" Subject: Re: [EDA] Goldie Hawn to direct Jewel's new movie? hehe... yeah, she really has got weird! I LOVED that title (Jewel Gets Weird)! So cool! hehe... I'm just weird also... Anyway, interesting news about the album. I didn't quite understand this part: "Among the names checked in the new batch of songs: Pete Townshend, Roman Polanski, Jennifer Lopez and Charlie Sheen." Is she talking about these people on the songs?? Roman Polanski??? Wow! Bizarre! Who is Pete Townshend? And not to say Goldie Hawn. Is anything more bizarre than that???? Really weird... I never liked her and always thought she was extremely boring and saltless (do you guys use this expression??). But, who knows? I was hoping for a more experienced director since it seems to be a kinda serious/deep movie. We'll see... I guess this makes for the day. see ya, Fabio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:36:45 -0500 From: "Sandy" Subject: Re: [EDA] Goldie Hawn to direct Jewel's new movie? > Is she talking about these people on the songs?? Roman Polanski??? Wow! > Bizarre! Who is Pete Townshend? guitarist from "the who" ~ Sandy ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V8 #33 **************************