From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V7 #475 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Thursday, October 31 2002 Volume 07 : Number 475 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe from this digest, send an email to * jewel-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY the word * unsubscribe in the BODY of the email * . * For the latest news on what Jewel is up to, go to * the OFFICIAL Jewel web site at http://www.jeweljk.com * and click on "calendar" * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: jewel-digest V7 #___ gives fellow list readers * no clue as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V7 #474 [GroupieGrrl6969@aol.com] Re: [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V7 #474 ["Larry G." ] Re: [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V7 #474 [negativl@negativl.best.vwh.net] [EDA] straightening out a few EDA myths [MrBB ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 03:07:44 -0500 From: GroupieGrrl6969@aol.com Subject: [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V7 #474 OK, I went back and reread my email and realized after I read James' reply as well that I hadn't made myself clear. I think it is wrong for the tapes to now be availible on CD. they were originally just in tape format, as a 3 tape set, and when the question was raised about putting them on CD, all the admin of the list (dont get me wrong, i love mike and alan, they got me through a really tough time about 6 yrs ago and will always always hold a special place in my heart and soul) denied my friend even the tapes because the Jteam was afraid he was going to put them on CD, even though he had only merely suggested it. The fact that they are now availible on CD for the whole damned world is grotesque to me...those tapes were specifically for the list, specifically for tape format, and were not to be copied, except for other angels. Ever since I saw someone with the JS cds on her trading list, this has been bugging me...have we forgotten completely? It cheapens the experience of JS in my eyes...are there even any veteran EDAs like myself left on the list who remember the excitement they felt the first time they got the announcement for the tape tree? Note, I said TAPE, not CD. Just because the technology has changed, does not mean that the specialness of the tapes should be cheapened, by putting them on CD. I know thats still not very clear, I know I have a tendency to ramble, but, thats my stream of conciousness view on it. ChelseaOnce again feeling like the on-the-soapbox "back in my day we walked uphill to school both ways with no legs" (LOL) angel"There is always an angel standing by, even if noone else can see them." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:54:22 -0800 From: "Larry G." Subject: Re: [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V7 #474 Just for the record, I remember the incident well. The individual was denied the tapes, NOT because he suggested that they be put on CD, but because he told Alan and/or Mike that he would sell them to a bootlegger. A lttle different spin than these posts reflect. Perhaps this fact wasn't disclosed or made clear, but anyway, that's the story as I remember it. (Chels, hey! Hope you're well!) - -=-Larry-=- GroupieGrrl6969@aol.com wrote: > > OK, I went back and reread my email and realized after I read James' reply as well that I hadn't made myself clear. I think it is wrong for the tapes to now be availible on CD. they were originally just in tape format, as a 3 tape set, and when the question was raised about putting them on CD, all the admin of the list (dont get me wrong, i love mike and alan, they got me through a really tough time about 6 yrs ago and will always always hold a special place in my heart and soul) denied my friend even the tapes because the Jteam was afraid he was going to put them on CD, even though he had only merely suggested it.> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:36:19 -0700 From: "charlie watkins" Subject: Re: [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V7 #474 If my memory of events from 6 years ago serves me well, I think the objection was to making them available in ANY digitized format. Chopped Liver (Charlie) watkins@selway.umt.edu http://members.aol.com/cwatkins/jerra.htm - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry G." To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V7 #474 > Just for the record, I remember the incident well. The individual was > denied the tapes, NOT because he suggested that they be put on CD, but > because he told Alan and/or Mike that he would sell them to a > bootlegger. > A lttle different spin than these posts reflect. Perhaps this fact > wasn't disclosed or made clear, but anyway, that's the story as I > remember it. > (Chels, hey! Hope you're well!) > -=-Larry-=- > > GroupieGrrl6969@aol.com wrote: > > > > OK, I went back and reread my email and realized after I read James' reply as well that I hadn't made myself clear. I think it is wrong for the tapes to now be availible on CD. they were originally just in tape format, as a 3 tape set, and when the question was raised about putting them on CD, all the admin of the list (dont get me wrong, i love mike and alan, they got me through a really tough time about 6 yrs ago and will always always hold a special place in my heart and soul) denied my friend even the tapes because the Jteam was afraid he was going to put them on CD, even though he had only merely suggested it.> > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:04:34 EST From: NeOblCar@aol.com Subject: Re: [EDA] SJC: M2M has officially broken up It stands to reason given that Atlantic offer her a solo deal just about a month ago. (BTW, both of them have always had their own site in addition to the M2M site.) I like Merit as a performer as she comes across more natural, but Marion has the better voice and more instrument talent (playing keyboards and guitar). Plus, she has her looks going for her - which unfortunately buys her some access immediately. (Believe me - MTV will play her) If Atlantic gets behind her she can at least rival the AVMs that are out now. == Rob == In a message dated 10/30/02 8:41:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, SullMa84@aol.com writes: > Well it's official that m2m has broken up. I'm sure Atlantic's lack of > support had something to do with it, but they are still "best of friends". > Marion, the brown-haired one, has been named the 2nd sexiest girl in Norway > (she appeared "slutty" to me, but I don't know her) and is going solo > (surprise....she had her own fan club while the group was still together) > personally, I like the other girl better. When i met them, she just seamed > nicer. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:27:48 -0500 From: Mike Connell Subject: [EDA] FWD: JeweLink: October 31, 2002 Here is the latest issue of JeweLink, directly from Jewel's "people", if you want to get a copy of this directly as each issue comes out, you can sub- scribe to it by sending a blank email to join-jewelink@list.jeweljk.com ******************************************** JeweLink - The Official Jewel Communications List ******************************************** In this edition of JeweLink: ***THIS WEEK'S SCRAPBOOK PHOTOS ***JEWEL'S TORONTO CONCERT ON CBC ***UPCOMING MAGAZINES WITH JEWEL ******************************************** ***THIS WEEK'S SCRAPBOOK PHOTOS Many of you have told us that you've enjoyed our exclusive video clips at the www.jeweljk.com Tour Section and our weekly photos at the Scrapbook page have always been one of our most popular features. This week at www.jeweljk.com, we decided to dedicate the Scrapbook page to recognizing some of the talented people working behind-the-scenes to bring you such excellent video and photographic content. This week, in addition to Jewel, West Kennerly's images focus on the "This Way Tour" videography team, including our two Soul City Cafe interns from Columbia College in Chicago - Johnny Derango and Roberto Alcantara, who were chosen to work with a seasoned videographer to shoot footage of the shows. Their efforts provided the footage for our video clips throughout the tour. There's even a rare image of the mysterious West K himself (last photo) who many of you have complimented over the years. Have a look at the Scrapbook page and lets have a big round of virtual applause for the outstanding work of our photography and videography teams! Enjoy the new photos and you can look forward to resumed multimedia activity in the Tour Section and at SoulCityCafe.com about a week into the November tour. ******************************************** ***JEWEL'S TORONTO CONCERT ON CBC When Jewel and her band hit Massey Hall in Toronto last June 28th, CBC radio was on hand to record the show for future broadcast. Segments of that concert are now scheduled to broadcast during CBC Radio One's transmission of "Definitely Not The Opera" on Saturday, November 23rd at 1:00 p.m. est. CBC Radio One is also available on ExpressVu and Starchoice Canadian satellite TV service. ******************************************** ***UPCOMING MAGAZINES WITH JEWEL Jewel will be appearing in the December 2002 issue of "In Style" Magazine which hits newstands on November 20th. At the end of December, you'll also find a Jewel feature in the January 2003 issue of "Self" Magazine. ******************************************** Now Playing: nothing - we like silence once in awhile too. Happy Halloween! -MrBB ******************************************** Jewel concert information, radio and TV broadcast scheduling updates available 24 hours a day at: http://jeweljk.com/low/calendar.html ******************************************** - --- You can help a friend subscribe by having them send a blank email to join-jewelink@list.jeweljk.com To view selected back issues of JeweLink, please visit the JeweLink Archive at the www.jeweljk.com calendar page. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:58:15 +0000 (GMT) From: negativl@negativl.best.vwh.net Subject: Re: [EDA] Re: jewel-digest V7 #474 I think (his initials were M.C. btw?) that you're all right. Originally, all Jewelstock tree participants agreed to keep it in analog format. This was due to (at the time) it being much easier to make a bootleg from digital material. That is, at the time, a good digital sample of analog master was expensive. The figuring was, if we early people kept the promise, that any bootlegger would at least be limited to several generations lower of analog material (IF original seeds, branches or leafs kept their word, the best source for the bootleggers would be a 4th gen copy, still pretty good. the hope was that it'd be well past that). I'm not sure, weren't leafs (and anyone actually) supposed to require that anyone else they made copies for agreed to the same terms? The person in question signed up for the tree, and essentially said he was going to break his promise, and convert his (leaf) copy immediately AND send it on to a bootlegger. He did well more than defend bootlegging, which a lot of us did (and do). He refused to accept the terms of participation and yet attempted to participate. He told Mike this directly, I think? Anyway, I haven't heard the CDs floating around, has anyone listened closely to see if they can tell how good the source was for conversion? The original tapes were of commercial or better quality, as they were made directly from the masters taken at the shows (after editing), at normal speed, instead of using high speed duplicators). So anyway, I agree with Chels' point too, which is that we as a list shouldn't be condoning current CDs. That we realistically can't stop it doesn't mean we should say it's okay. It may hurt to have to say it, but we made a promise. Unless the folks we originally made the promise with agree to modify the agreement, we should stick by it. The person who took ran the tree is still on this list, ya know. =) good to see all you guys surface. =) Ray, the sometimes employed and sometimes not, angel charlie watkins wrote: > > If my memory of events from 6 years ago serves me well, I think the > objection was to making them available in ANY digitized format. > > From: "Larry G." > > > Just for the record, I remember the incident well. The individual was > > denied the tapes, NOT because he suggested that they be put on CD, but > > because he told Alan and/or Mike that he would sell them to a > > bootlegger. > > A lttle different spin than these posts reflect. Perhaps this fact > > wasn't disclosed or made clear, but anyway, that's the story as I > > remember it. > > (Chels, hey! Hope you're well!) > > -=-Larry-=- > > > > GroupieGrrl6969@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > OK, I went back and reread my email and realized after I read James' > reply as well that I hadn't made myself clear. I think it is wrong for the > tapes to now be availible on CD. they were originally just in tape format, > as a 3 tape set, and when the question was raised about putting them on CD, > all the admin of the list (dont get me wrong, i love mike and alan, they got > me through a really tough time about 6 yrs ago and will always always hold a > special place in my heart and soul) denied my friend even the tapes because > the Jteam was afraid he was going to put them on CD, even though he had only > merely suggested it.> > > > Ray Wong PO BOX 6163 negativl at best.com, negativl at rayw.com Hayward, CA 94540-6163 Member #11537, Deborah Gibson International Fan Club Co-Founder and Charter Member, Sutton Foster International Fan Club ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:19:35 -0500 From: MrBB Subject: [EDA] straightening out a few EDA myths Hi all, Long time no see. I left this list a few years ago but a few EDA emails were just forwarded to me and I'm sending this hoping Mike will put it through to you. I'd like to straighten out once and for all some major misconceptions regarding the Jewelstock Tapes, my feelings about trading in digital formats and EDA list policies. It's become almost like that "telephone game" I played as a kid, where every time a message is passed on it changes, until the original message has all but disintegrated. As the person who initially suggested Jewelstock be recorded and given away FREE to the EDAs, produced those tapes (among others), and along with your listowner Mike, saw that the distribution actually occured, I can speak from first-hand experience on most issues related to them. First, for those who were not here then, these very special Jewel recordings were distributed in 1996 on cassettes, to any EDA listmember who requested them, via a massive tape tree, meaning an army of generous fellow EDAs volunteered their equipment and time to make copies for others free of charge. This was 1996 remember, so few, if anyone (on the list) owned a CD burner, and although a handful had DAT, cassettes were obviously the most efficient way to go with such a massive undertaking. Of course, a few years later the world of trading live recordings had a major paradigm shift, due to the increasing availabilty and lower prices of CD burning equipment (and the Internet, of course.) But CD burners were very uncommon in 1996 and the burning of CDs of live Jewel recordings for the purpose of selling them without permission was not something that could be condoned for obvious legal reasons. We never had anything against digital formats per se', but at that 1996 point in the technology revolution, many, if not most of the people burning CDs were indeed "bootleggers," ie., doing it for profit. Illegal bootleg Jewel CDs were just beginning to generate big business so there was some concern. But my primary point is that 1996 was quite a different world technology-wise, and the vast majority of live recordings on CD at that time were illegally manufactured bootleg CDs for sale, NOT freely traded CDRs. Which brings us to the second issue of the one person who was denied tapes from the original 1996 Jewelstock distribution. While I was still putting the master "seed" tapes together, Mike was working on the complicated logistics of accomplishing the free distribution and listmembers were still floating from Jewel and Lenedra's generosity, said listmember was impatiently contacting us daily regarding how he wanted us to execute the distribution. We initially asked him to just let us do what we needed to do and to be patient, but he was relentless and was additionally giving us a hard time because he didn't want cassette copies. This went on for quite awhile including some particularly vicious attacks on Mike's charachter that were way out of line. Finally said person made it known that as soon as he got his copies, he was going to have CDs proffesionally manufactured that he would SELL to anyone who prefered CDs. This was not just idle talk as he had the financial resources to do it (which were significant costs in 1996) AND he went as far as pricing the order with a production facility, claiming to them he had permission from the artist! The management of the production facility was contacted directly and the issue was handled quite easily, but this was the reason he was denied the tapes. A decision I still don't regret. His actions also jeopardized the tape distribution for everyone and this beautiful thing that we were trying to accomplish almost didn't happen at all because of it. It took considerable effort to convince all concerned that we should still do it and that the EDAs were worthy of such a gesture and would respect our wishes not to make CDs or profit from it. This was the primary reasoning behind specificly asking the EDAs not to put the Jewelstock tapes to CDs and to just spread the tapes freely to other EDAs while doing your best to keep them off of websites and out of the hands of anyone who would profiteer in any way from them. This specific request never refered to anything beyond that. It was never meant as some universal policy for all other tapes til the end of time. Even though multi-generation Jewelstock tapes did eventually fall into the hands of bootleg CD profiteers, we still simply wished for that particular music to continue spreading FREELY, as was our primary intentions all along. A few years later, with an entirely different technological climate around us, many seemed to mistakenly interpret those 1996 wishes to mean we were anti-all-digital formats, which is absolutely untrue. By 1996, I had been recording and trading digitally for many years already. I mean this seriously when I say that I never had any problem with people trading live recordings freely in digital format, including CDRs, which I do myself with many friends. I recorded my first concert in 1969 (The Rolling Stones at Baltimore Civic Center in case you're curious, with an old Revere portable reel to reel!) and have been actively collecting, swapping and giving away copies of unreleased live recordings since the early 70s. I was actively trading live shows before Jewel was even born and was already having music archive storage problems when many of the people on this list were still in diapers, hehehe.... I only speak for myself, but the bottom line is that I have always encouraged FREE trading of fan recordings and the format people trade in doesn't concern me at all. I encourage DAT, CD, MP3, whatever--as long as no-one is profiteering in any way from unreleased music that is not their own. I sincerely hope that ends the anti-digital myths that have perpetuated mistakenly for years. And finally, policies on the EDA list were never dictated by Jewel, Lenedra or me. Mike, as sole listowner has his own reasons and responsibilities for administering his list policies. From what I know from several years ago, he was primarily looking out for the longevity of the list by avoiding issues that could jeopardize it - like encouraging blatant copywrite infringement or leaving him or smoe.org owner Jeff accountable for illegal activity on their list. I have not always agreed with Mike, or all of his list policies, but I like him and I respect him for his efforts to avoid things that legally jeopardize his list and for watching out for the safety of his listmembers from internet predators. I hope that straightens out a few misconceptions. I will be unable to entertain replies or answer additional peripheral questions about this message but I hope everyone here is doing well. My only advice here in 2002 is for every EDA who has nice live recordings of Jewel to give a copy to someone who doesn't - including that guy who was denied. Hope to seeya at the upcoming acoustic shows. Come on up and say hi if you see me wandering around. Alan ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V7 #475 ***************************