From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V6 #661 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Thursday, December 6 2001 Volume 06 : Number 661 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe from this digest, send an email to * jewel-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY the word * unsubscribe in the BODY of the email * . * For the latest news on what Jewel is up to, go to * the OFFICIAL Jewel web site at http://www.jeweljk.com * and click on "calendar" * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: jewel-digest V6 #xxx or the like gives fellow list readers * no clue as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- NJC: Re: [EDA] freedom's just another word... ["cymbaline" ] [EDA] Break Me, Serve the Ego, sexism, and lyrical analysis ["Martin, Ma] [EDA] NJC: A nice quote ["Karacostas, Derrick W." ] Re: [EDA] Break Me, Serve the Ego, sexism, and lyrical analysis [Sokoolet] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:15:44 -0500 From: "cymbaline" Subject: NJC: Re: [EDA] freedom's just another word... Tsunami - Note I put NJC in the subject line again. You might want to try that. So, just because Derrick said some things that were completely his opinion on a mother and her daughter over a month ago.... everything he posts is negative and abusive, right? And he is not welcome to post anything because of some people's opinions of him. right? The only negativity and personal attacks I see on this list for THE MOST PART, are not even started by Derrick, they are started by everyone else who out of the blue attack Derrick. So its okay to be negative about your opinions on others, and attack others.... as long as you aren't Derrick. Still I don't see where you come off saying that all this negativity on this list is because of Derrick. If Derrick posts alot in one day, but does not even have a say in a thread going on a particular argument.... it's STILL Derrick's fault, according to your logic. Like Derrick said he has no control over how many messages are posted a day. If he posts 10 messages when only 40 total are sent to the list today... it stands out, but if he posts those same 10 messages when 300 make it to the list, you wouldn't notice. So, Instead of attacking Derrick with no true motive other than the fact you just don't like him, why don't you just shut your pie hole, and stop giving him the attention you "know" he wants. See, I may not like any given person on this list. But do you see me posting a mesage out of the blue verbally attacking this person with no motive other than the reason I can not stand the person? example: "Hey Scott Evans I'm sick and tired of your opinions and stupid 16 year old reviews on movies and music, why don't you do us all a favor and shut the hell up!" Kinda stupid, isn't it? There was no motive for that. (By the way scott, I love you! I really do like your ramblings) AND if y'all will just keep your Derrick opinions to yourself...this list won't have Derrick at the center of attention. You put him there, not him. And if you don't like what he was to say... there's a delete key. >np: Pink Floyd: "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" cymbie tree hugger - -- when night falls it's dawn one must reach for. - -a. camus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 13:35:39 -0600 From: "Karacostas, Derrick W." Subject: RE: [EDA] freedom's just another word... > "boring" is not the word - try "refreshing" > Nah, I leave that word reserved for other things...I think I'll just stick to "boring". :-) > In light of his insensitive and ignorant verbal attacks on a mother and > her > young daughter, Derrick should consider himself lucky that he wasn't > banned > from this list for much more than a month. > Adrian doesn't know what happened, and what occured after that. Nor does he know any facts at all about this incident. Therefore everything he is saying is based on absolutely nothing. (ok, it's based on his warped mind) Thus, a waste of the lists time....he's good at that lately though. > Mike gave him a break and made D's penalty only 11 days on the sidelines > (but, geez, the fresh air on the list made it seem like a month!) > I was only "gone" 11 days for a reason. And no, the "11" isn't significant either. Could have been 10, or 12, just the same. Fresh air? hahaha...like I said, I saw every post that came in, and the bickering was just as bad, if not worse. Maybe you should just leave the list if you don't like what you're seeing, cause it won't ever go away whether I'm around or not. You'd have to get rid of about 1000 people for your wishes to occur. That's the coolest thing of all about this...your complaints are about things that occur whether I post or not! It can't get any better than this on my end. :-) > Was he chastened or wisened by the experience? Apparently not. He thinks > it's ok to say stupid or mean things as long as he adds emoticons to his > messages, indicating he's smiling or joking. > Did you miss the boat or something? I could say alot of things about you that may not be true either, but I won't waste other's time. One person doing that is enough I think. I guess it's ok though for *you* to do what you are talking about me doing above...since that's what you ARE doing in this letter you wrote. There's a word for that I think...hmmm...yeah, HYPOCRIT. > Imagine a man or boy, in the non-virtual world, who goes around punching > people, or spitting on them, and then asks to be excused for his actions > because he was smiling when he hurt people. > Ok I'm imagining that now...and you're the only one that I keep getting this vision of. :-) And by the way, I've never punched or spit on anyone...male or female, have you by chance? I mean, you used that in your example afterall. Maybe you know too much about this. > Can anyone truly be so lacking in self-awareness? > Yes I do believe they can. You are proof. > When someone on a mail list, like D does here, attempts to continuallly > force his opinions on others, dominate discussions, start negative > threads, and basically says "look at me" all the time, it can really be... > tiresome. Hmmm.. now THAT is "boring"! > You are doing exactly the things you are talking about...wake up!!! YOU. And I never tell you to read anything I write...the fact you ARE is really REALLY funny I think. > I received lots of private thank yous from EDAs for speaking up a day or > so > ago, and I know how most people don't want to take any more of D's abuse - > privately in emails or on this list. It's unfortunate that one person can > create so much bad feeling. > This is funny as well. I'll just use what you wrote to state my next line...restructured some...." I received lots of private thank yous from EDAs for speaking up, and I know how most people don't want to take any more of A's abuse - privately in emails or on this list. It's unfortunate that one person can > create so much bad feeling." > And I also want to thank everyone who has voiced their ill feelings about people like Adrian. It shows me there IS something still *refreshing* about this list. Ok, I used your word Adrian. Be happy. :-) > Mike, when you give people breaks - like you gave D - I sure hope they'll > appreciate it more in future ( : > Again, you're clueless about so much. Please stop now before I can't make myself stop laughing anymore. PS...do you ever feel like you're wasting your time? Think about that. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 13:36:56 -0600 From: "Karacostas, Derrick W." Subject: NJC: [EDA] freedom's just another word... You're too funny Cymbie. Some people don't read I guess. :-) You can't help people who don't want to be helped...so I just leave them be. > ---------- > From: cymbaline[SMTP:cymbaline@bestnetpc.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:15 PM > To: jewel@smoe.org > Subject: NJC: Re: [EDA] freedom's just another word... > > Tsunami - Note I put NJC in the subject line again. You might want to try > that. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:45:00 -0800 From: "Jeremy Mull" Subject: RE: [EDA] Alice in Winterland review Really good review in my estimation. I was able to get in at the last minute. So if you want to talk about crappy seats at least you weren't sitting on the floor. =) I didn't see the first two acts although after the show I had a feeling Matt Nathanson had been good because he was signing in the lobby for quite a long time. Jewel put on an awesome show. I now know what the long-time EDA's are referring to when they speak of Jewel's "Glory Days." She's simply awesome in an acoustic setting with a "small" audience. I would see her in a large venue any of day the week though, because she plays those really well too. I think playing each type of venue is a talent unto itself. Jewel was extremely sarcastic that night. Not bitter, but amusing. Her timing was excellent. She mentioned that she thinks malls are simply setup since you get lost and end up at a GAP. No matter what she always ends up in front of a GAP and has to buy something she says. There was also some good banter with the audience. One guy yelled out he wanted to hear "sneezy." J - huh? what are you talking about. dude- play sneezy J - I don't know that song. What song is it? then silence J - Come on. Don't be shy now. He's like it wasn't me. I didn't say anything. Where are you? people laughed at this D- right here! Out of the crowd - play cold song J - oh how do you know that song? silence J - bootleg maybe? ummhmm okay I see. Another lady yelled out where's Ty which really sounded to everybody else like she was yelling where's Taaayoauay. Jewel said he was in Stephenville after trying to find out why this lady was so interested in knowing about him. This same lady tried singing along to "Break Me." Perhaps she's talented but next to Jewel you couldn't see it. People were taking pics and she asked them to stop because she always looks like she's peeing when she sings. People stopped taking pics. I was really impressed with Jewel on Monday nite. Those of you worrying about her selling out, maybe she's doing more bigger things than smaller things these days, she is still capable of doing the smaller things wonderfully. Enjoy, Jeremy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-jewel@smoe.org [mailto:owner-jewel@smoe.org]On Behalf Of billy streeter Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:56 AM To: Jewel list Subject: [EDA] Alice in Winterland review So the moment we've all been waiting for... She appeared on stage with the hood of a black sweatshirt covering her forehead all the way to her eyes, very cute I thought. She took that off and was wearing a black tee with I believe gold color writing on it. As she started to strum her guitar their we're very few people talking and she stops and says "be very very quite" just like Elmer Fudd does when he's hunting wabbits. At that point you could have heard pin drop on a bed of feathers. She madd respect unlike Shelby Lyyn. My memory isn't what it used to be so the set list goes something like this Near You Allways Rosie And Mick You We're Meant For Me Cold Song Jesus Loves You WWSYS encore Ava Maria Break Me Those are the correct songs but the order may be a littel off so check the web site later on and I'm sure they'll have an accurate list. Jewel was absolutely money that night. She was on key, very talkitive, and she even busted out with new stories. This show was a great plublicity move. I'm sure most people there like Jewel's hits but weren't that into her but by the end off the show just loved her. One guy sitting at the same table as I had been making littel jokes and comments during Shelby and Matt but by the end of Ava Maria I heard him say "WOW! that girls got talent". Then after she sang Break Me and left the stage the Standing Still video was played on the big screen and only like 50 people got up to leave. I was sitting there and I looked around at 600 people with there heads glued to the screen. Well, that was the show. I do have one question though. Probabley only for bay area EDA's but if anyone knows or has an idea please let me know... My friend was listening to the morning show of the radio station (Alice 97.3) who put on the concert the day of. She said they we're talking about the last time Jewel did a show with them, the Now and Zen festival I'm sure, the morning show guy, Vinny of Sarah and Vinny, said or did something to Jewel that either pissed her off or embarassed her. So much so that Jewel made the radio station promise not to ever talk about it. My friend said even the traffic lady was asking and they we're like "we cannot talk about it, callers DO NOT CALL IN ASKING WHAT HAPPENED BECAUSE WE CAN NOT SAY". Then the Vinny guy was doing something that had to do with it and Sarah said "not funny Vinny!" and he did it again and she said "STILL, not funny Vinny!!!" For the love of god what happened???????? I was at Now and Zen but I don't know what happened. If anyone has an idea please, please tell me. Thank you. By the way I'll send the address of where to see pictures of Winterland when they're up. bye - -Billy - ---------- >From: Fredsteve@aol.com >To: jewel@smoe.org >Subject: [EDA] Alice in Winterland? >Date: Wed, Dec 5, 2001, 6:52 PM > > Hey > > Did anybody get to go to the Alice in Winterland concert in San Fransisco? > How was it? What was the setlist? > > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:46:15 -0600 From: "Martin, Matthew" Subject: [EDA] Break Me, Serve the Ego, sexism, and lyrical analysis It's great to finally see these songs analyzed on the list... A while back some other EDA friends and I have had this same discussion in some depth... We covered every basis... My interpretation of both songs are a mix of both Maggie's and Sean's but are more toward what Maggie has described... Break Me... She loves Ty so much that she has opened herself to be broken by his love (like breaking a horse)... Then she warns him that even the most beautiful love of all, isn't pain free... (you can peel off my clothes like pedals of a flower... but be gentle because you may get pricked) Then she tells him that sometimes the things you say or the things you do might break my heart.. or You may get rough with me (sexually) or talk dirty to me... but I'm so helpless to your love... that there is nothing you can to do save me... I give my self to you... So do with me what you will... make love to me... control me... I just crave feeling your arms around me knowing how much you love me... Now that I have surrendered to your love... It feels like I'm floating weightlessly under water... I have drowned in your love... Serve the Ego... This is definitely about serving your inner self... Don't submit to everyone else's expectations or desires... Let the spotlight shine on you... and praise the new GOD (Your EGO)... Forget "Yesterday's Lover" and be a slave to your own passions and desires... Make Love to Yourself.... There are many ways a song can be interpreted... that's the beauty of it... none of them are wrong.. Matt Houston, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 13:49:58 -0600 From: "Karacostas, Derrick W." Subject: [EDA] NJC: A nice quote After reading Adrians post about bullies and stuff, it made me think of something Fred Durst of Limp Bizkit once said. This is paraphrased...but it was something to the effect of....."I was bullied in school alot and always considered an outcast. I think it's funny that those same people who did that to me are now the ones buying my records." When I say this...I'm referring to people like Adrian as being the bully, yet "buying into" my posts and fueling my thoughts even more. Thanks Fred! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:03:25 EST From: Sokooletc@aol.com Subject: Re: [EDA] Break Me, Serve the Ego, sexism, and lyrical analysis In a message dated 12/6/01 12:00:46 PM, owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org writes: << Re: [EDA] Break Me, Serve the Ego, sexism, and lyrical analysis >> Just a quick note on this. I think we are overanalyzing to a degree. Serve the Ego, by "Jewel's" definition that she spoke of in an interview, was to have an instance to be subservient to a man. She had said, and I'm not quoting verbatim, "what's wrong with being subservient to a man once in a while." But the key phrase is "Once in a while." I think it's an indication that, possibly for sexual curiosity and role playing, whatever they call it these days, it was for fun. I don't think she's saying "I'm your slave forever" (Not in a Brittany Spears way). It's a method of enhancing a relationship by making her man feel dominant "once in a while." I'm sure she expects the same from him too, but that would be a different song. Point being is that I think that you can take "both" sides of this argument, but to a degree. She is saying be subservient, but not overall dominant and controlling. Music is always open to interpretation and that would be mine. My belief is that if you can only draw the negatives from a song to negatively portray the artist, then you need a new hobby. You don't look at a Van Gough and denounce his self-portrait because he has a beard or something. What I mean is that it doesn't demote the credit and the artistic view it took to complete the painting by adding his own artistic interpretation. If you don't like it, that's your opinion. But if you don't like it because of something "you" wouldn't have done to "his" painting, then I think you need to reevaluate what your view of artistic integrity really is. Not to be slanderous, it's just my opinion. Keith "the over-opinionated angel" (only part-time though) "If I don't have anything intelligent to say that I won't say anything at all, or Duh". - me ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V6 #661 ***************************