From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V4 #122 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Saturday, March 13 1999 Volume 04 : Number 122 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * jewel-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY the word * unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Jewel tour dates, go to: * http://jewel.zoonation.com and click on "TOUR" * OR * go to the OFFICIAL Jewel home page at http://www.jeweljk.com * and go to the "What, When, Where" section * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: jewel-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- Jewel's last Sydney Concert ["Tim Propert" ] Who would attend to Jewel Concert - France - May ["Francois Cartegnie" ] EDA's [JewelAng@aol.com] Re: The Future of The EDAs [Mandy ] Re: What this list has become. Alan's post. Mike. Censorship. [Tom Moral] "The Collected Works Of Jewel Kilcher" ???? help [Nubbay@aol.com] NJC: Re: Jewel a hypocrite for playing Singapore ["Jean" ] Stockholm June 21 ["Veronika M" ] Re: The Future of The EDAs- PLEASE read this [Raymond Wong Subject: Jewel's last Sydney Concert Hey guys, Well, I'd been waiting all week for my turn in seeing Jewel for the first time here in Sydney and I was not disappointed! This is a brief run through of the concert. Please forgive any mistakes on my part - my memory is like a sieve. Steve Poltz came on stage looking rather bedraggled, dark glasses donned and explained that he was still hung over from an overnight club-crawl through Sydney the previous night. All in all he did okay under the circumstances! He sang the "Star Wars" song in order to get the crowd warmed up. I can't remember what other songs he sang - sorry! He did the wine tasting thing with a girl named Sophie. Oh, and if Louise of Melbourne is reading this, Steve still had your little kangaroo on his table. :) The audience was well and truly ready when Jewel finally arrived. Her songs included (kinda in order): Near you Always Deep Water WWSYS Down Hands Jupiter Down So Long Barcelona Cold Song Foolish Games Innocence Maintained Grey Matter Summertime (Encore) Angel Standing By (Encore) Unknown - see below (Encore) The last song was one I didn't recognise - she introduced it as being "a real crowd pleaser". She yodelled for most of the song and the audience loved it! It was great stuff! I'm pretty sure it wasn't Chime Bells, but it's been a long day for me so forgive me if I'm mistaken. Jewel sure left Sydney with a bang! Seraphiel +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Journey into Seraphiel's Abode: |"What is to give light www.viper.net.au/~tpropert | must endure burning." Netword: Seraphiel | ICQ: #1580046 | -- Viktor Frankl +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:29:27 +0100 From: "Francois Cartegnie" Subject: Who would attend to Jewel Concert - France - May Hello vets and new EDAs, I'm just planning to organise a EDA meeting before the Concert in Paris. Just needing to know how many people would attend this. So, If you're planning to go to this concert, just tell me ! F.C. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:46:06 EST From: JewelAng@aol.com Subject: guitar chords Hey all Eda's, I was wondering if anyone new a site where there is guitar chords...........not tabs. Jewel ones or does anyone have them typed out. There are a couble of songs I'm looking for: Tiny Love Spaces 1,000 Miles Cold Song there are more but I'm just know losing my mind I can't think this early in the morinig on a saturday. bye thanks for all the help. The Fallen Angel Rebecca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:07:53 +0200 From: Koos van Zyl Subject: Foolish Games on 5FM Hi! No big news really, just that Friday the Hands video was shown on TV, and today (Saturday) Foolish Games was played at 9am on 5FM. The point is that it was the first time ever I saw anything related to Jewel on South Africa TV, and the radio hasn't played Jewel since YWMFM was released. I just though it really cool! Tata. - -- Koos van Zyl >>>>>>> The Savage Angel <<<<<<< "Common sense is a game many people don't like to play." - Savage Garden - From "Violet" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:01:49 EST From: JewelAng@aol.com Subject: EDA's Hey, I just finished reading the two posts by Scott and Johns post. I have to say I don't remeber the list like you guys have been talking about b/c I've only been a member of the list since like December of this year. I goined the list to hear stuff about Jewel and meet people who were infauated with her as much as I was. If you take away some of the stuff your takling about you would taking awya the specialness of the list. The reason I read it. Maybe I'm a little confused about everything that's going on but.........Anyways. Bye. The Fallen Angel Rebecca "Dance like no one is watching and love like you've never been hurt." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:40:41 -0600 From: Mandy Subject: Re: The Future of The EDAs Hi Angels I wanted to put in a few words about this as well. I am in no way what-so-ever a veteran, but I would like to say, I wish I could have been. It sounds to me that what all the vets are saying is true. I haven't been around that long, but If I could have been, believe me, I would have been. I wish I could feel the way that everyone else does about the EDAs and all the gatherings and LRTs and just Everything. I think that it's very important that EDAs get to know each other. I want to feel like a part of the family too. I guess that's all I really wanted to say. The I hope that made sense and I didn't make myself look too stupid angel hugs, daisie angel aka Mandy "Show me one man who knows his own heart, to him I shall belong" ~jk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:19:50 -0800 From: Tom Morales Subject: Re: What this list has become. Alan's post. Mike. Censorship. Jewel. Etc Sender: owner-jewel@smoe.org Precedence: bulk First off, hi to all the familiar names. Second, does this mean Liz and Shelly will be the cutest bookends on the north american continent. And third I just wanted to ask Sean how he came to the conclusion that a letter written saturated with opinion and his own distorted observations could be described as honest. Honest is truth and fact based and until Jewel tells us about how she feels we can make our own summations. We don't need Sean to do it for us. I do recall her writing to the list and telling people that we were important to her. Lastly, Sean obviously has grandiose view of himself if he feels any of his posts are important. > Now, this has not been a negative post, just an honest one. I still > respect most of Jewel's music even as she slips away from us, > It's really a hell of a lot more important than this one. I too would like to see some type of change. It doesn't necessarily have to go back to a completely unmoderated state. Maybe it can continue to evolve. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:12:57 EST From: Nubbay@aol.com Subject: "The Collected Works Of Jewel Kilcher" ???? help Doesn Anyone Have The Jewel Tape "The Collected Works Of Jewel Kilcher" if so could you send me the setlist of the songs on that tape and if you are able to dub a copy for me ? thanx ahead of time ! Zac ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 02:24:42 +0800 From: "Jean" Subject: NJC: Re: Jewel a hypocrite for playing Singapore Regarding this email, I have taken personal offense in this. I am a Singaporean, and I have friends who actually known Michael Fay, and believe me, he is no saint. But I am not here to slag him off as you did to Singapore. However, I just have one question regarding him, have *you* read about the troubles he has gotten into ever since he has return home? Let me assure you, he wasn't tortured, flogged, or whipped. Perhaps, you would like to come down here for a visit someday for I take it that you have *never* been to Singapore before to make such inane comments as these. We are *not* victimized by our government. Singapore is a great place to live in, and to raise your children in. I'm not saying this because I'm a Singaporean but because it's the truth. While there are times that I've hated some things here, I do not wish for much to change. We have a low crime rate, a low unemployment rate, and we maintain a high standard of living as well as education. We hardly have any cases of extreme poverty here and we have extremely good health care as well as law enforcement agencies. Surely this is not how a 'barbaric' country lives does it? And we are not treated like animals here. We even have a most excellent SPCA here as well. As for Jewel playing in Singapore, why shouldn't she? She's not playing for the government, she's playing for her fans, and she has plenty of them over here. What I'm suggesting is that you, Mr. Hooks, is to get of your high horse to do some basic research before criticizing what you do not know. Ignorance isn't very flattering on you. Jeanette ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:30:37 EST From: JewelAng@aol.com Subject: about Sean Hooks post Hello, I just finished reading his post and I almost started crying. It was very weird. I am not a vet or anything but I wish that I could have seen the list as so many have descibred it. I'm a huge Jewel fan no matter what. i think maybe if we just step back from this at look it form a different veiw point things might look better. Just go deep down and try to remeber what brought you here in the first place. Or why you started likeing her music so much. I wish I could understand where everyone is coming from but alas I can't. I just hope that you all thnk about my questions and deside if your still getting out of this list what you wanted in the first place. I know i am but I also know I could be getting alot more. The Fallen Angel Rebecca "I'd rather see the world from a different angel." (think about this line) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:56:44 -0500 From: Rachel Subject: Who says? "Something this large cannot be intimimate and filled with poetry and laughs and recommendations or other artists and communal atmosphere. It just isn't possible." Who says?! I think that some angels are making this bigger than it is. To say that a list as large as this cannot be intimite and full of laughter is just strange to me. I mean, I have made friends with many angels who have just joined the list and all are eager in joining. I don't see how we all can't get along even if there is a lot of angels on this list. We should embrace new angels and not limit ourselves in coming to conclusions based on size-only. I think that some angels are making this situation out to be bigger than it really is. I think that we all need to take a deep breath and think about what we are saying first and use the sit-on-it rule. I am not just saying this to certain angels I am saying this to all angels, including myself. We all need to relax and use our words wisely and perhaps we won't make this situation so extreme. @~Rachel~@ The Angel With Silver Wings and a Golden Harp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:33:24 PST From: "Veronika M" Subject: Stockholm June 21 Hi, I was just wondeing if any EDA is going to Jewels conecrt in Stockolm June 21th and if you could mail me. I need some info. I know there's som Swedish EDAs on this list, but I lost your addys and names, so ifd you could send me a mail, I would really appreciate it! Thanks, Veronika "If you stand up like a nail you will be knocked down... I have been to honest with myself, I should have lied like everybody else." -Richey James Edwards ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Wong Subject: Re: The Future of The EDAs- PLEASE read this I really meant to post on this back when Mike opened the list for a few days to show everyone what sorts of posts he deals with every day as a moderator, but was too busy with some other events and wasn't able to compose a reply until after the window for discussion had closed. Now that moderation has come up for discussion again, I will try to say those thoughts I have had. I've always appreciated the super-human efforts Mike makes in trying to hold the list(s) together, but the flood of posts actually helped convince me back then that he shouldn't be doing it. Simply put, moments like that flood of unregulated posts, as well as the current discussion about moderation policy, prove to me that this list has long since stopped being real. Mike single-handedly has been maintaining the illusion of community by fundamentally reshaping the flow of list traffic. Moderation has gone from eliminating the exception to content (spam, flame trolling, etc) for purpose of encouraging discussion, to having to extract the content from the noise for purpose of creating the appearance of discussion. There have always been comments about the "noise to signal ratio" of discussion on the net, which was behind much of the moderation history of other subjects, but the assumption of any discussion forum is that the majority of those choosing to participate share some common interest. "Noise" has been thought of as outside interference to the natural dialogue; tangential posting by members was thought of as perhaps needing metering to keep tempers from making us say things we would later want to retract. In short, participants were assumed to have some independent motivation to return to the subject at hand. This list is no longer unified by a single common theme. We still share the bond of an appreciation for Jewel, but that is not the reason all of us are here. We may have begun with the shared topic of Jewel, but even in the joyful days prior to Jewelstock, there was so much more. We were all interested in each other. Everyone's messages were treasured, a sharing of thought and emotion amongst friends. All of them. We perhaps didn't always find meaning in each post, but we always wanted to read them all, and found meaning in so many. I have seen Jewel in concert only once. I was almost to be part of Jewelstock, but my own schedule had me return from New York the day before that magical day. I was fortunate enough to be part of the Jewelstock tree, however. I have never been to an EDA gathering, but could feel a part of many of them, because my friends were there. I felt disappointment as I could not attend one event after another, but not loss, my friends were still there. The list as it exists now no longer represents that shared joy. When we began moderation, the types of posts being screened out were messages that, taken individually, would not provide meaning to us, but still came from a desire to participate. Moderation was a calming influence in recognition that we as a list couldn't handle that large a volume of mail, not that we didn't want to. The list as it exists now is a levy bursting through. Mike stands at the break, furiously building walls as the torrent tears them down. There are a huge number of posts being stopped, not simply because of the volume, but because they are not the least bit interesting to most members. There are many messages that many of us delete having only skimmed them for "content." There's no room for Alan's attempts to share with us those moments that, while not strictly about Jewel, used to provide us with meaning. So, while I stand in awe of Mike's heroic efforts to save the list, I confess to at times wondering, what list? How many of us comb through list traffic, still hoping for that one post that brings a smile, or tear, or just that warm fuzzy feeling, but not expecting any of it? Should I try to pull my good and valued friend away from the levy in fear that he will soon be washed away by it? At times, it seems like posts are made not from a desire to have people read them, but simply to know that one's thoughts have been sent unto the world, what we refer to in life as people who like the sound of their own voice. And yet, I, as so many others, stay. I keep promising myself that I will make once again the community I once experienced, will show the newcomers how great and joyful this list can be. I feel no anger or resentment towards them, for they can't have known what potential remains hidden within the list. So many of them have never seen a list that was so close, so truly one community with many voices, that they can not be blamed for making the list into the best they can imagine. Moderation is neither the cure nor the cause of our problems, but it has been keeping us from facing them. Perhaps eliminating moderation would allow the list to finish falling apart. Perhaps it would free us to make the list into whatever it's really meant to be. I wish I knew some words that could help. I wish we could all make the super-human effort that Mike does, and perhaps with all of us together it might be enough. I do know that I still have hope. Ultimately, hope really is all we have, so maybe it will be enough. I will stay here, and contribute as I can, for as long as I can. Ray Wong PO BOX 6163 negativl@best.com, negativl@netcom.com Hayward, CA 94540-6163 Member #11537, Deborah Gibson International Fan Club Co-Founder and Charter Member, Sutton Foster International Fan Club ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V4 #122 ***************************