From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V3 #611 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Sunday, November 15 1998 Volume 03 : Number 611 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * jewel-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY the word * unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Jewel tour dates, go to: * http://jewel.zoonation.com and click on "TOUR" * OR * go to the OFFICIAL Jewel home page at http://www.jeweljk.com * and go to the "What, When, Where" section * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: jewel-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- The Skirt [joe ] SNL [MaSeSF95@aol.com] Jewel/criticism [cmgordon2@juno.com (Courtney M Gordon)] Saturday Night Live [cmgordon2@juno.com (Courtney M Gordon)] SNL [Num1JwlFan@aol.com] Jewel in Wizard of Oz [JEWELA383@aol.com] My Rant: Give the girl a break [Philip Nelson ] Re: SNL! [christie hasenberg ] Is it my imagination? [Raymond Wong ] Jewel on Saturday Night Live - my take [Mike Connell Subject: The Skirt >but the way these angels could only speak of her dress made me >sick and wonder how shollow some of you can be, flame me if you will, >but i had to say that - ------------------------------------------- Well. Since you asked for it. Here is more of my $.02 on the skirt. I was completely appauled by her skirt. Maybe its my own fault that I feel this way, it probably is. Perhaps my expectations of her are much higher than they should be. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but that kind of attire is completely inappropriate for television and public display. Maybe if she was a prostitute it would be more acceptable, but as a public figure, a person who society models after, I cannot in any way condone her outfit. I agree, its not her job to be a roll model for our children, but she is, regardless of wether she wants to be or not. Take the issue of our president for example. He is a representative of our society, and his actions are available for public display and interpretation. In essence, he agreed to have his life publicized by taking the oath of the presidency. He is our leader, and his actions are seen by our children as reverend, or wholsome. When he acts out, and has extramarrital affairs, that says to our children, that its alright to act this way. This relates to Jewel in that, whatever she does, says to our children that this is ok, and that since Jewel does it, I should do it too. And then we've got 6th graders leaving for school in the morning in jeans and a tshirt, but sneaking over to their girlfriends house and changing into their leather mini skirt and going to school. And then we've got some perverted child molestor who sees my little girl skimply clad in her Jewel outfit, and then we've got counseling for the rest of her life. Maybe I should have taught her better, maybe I did something wrong as a parent, but what she sees Jewel do, and what she sees our president do can really make an impact on an impressionable mind, especially for someone who is desperately seeking individuality and searching for herself. Sorry for the long and perhaps irrational rambling, but I don't think it would be right for me to sit back and not discuss this at all. I know I'm going to get some flames on this one, but I welcome all of your opinions. I know that Jewel shouldn't have to adhere to anybodys standards, but we're all human, and we all deserve a right to speak our opinion. And to address this comment : "i actually have a skirt like that! i'm sure all of you male angels loved it, too! ;-) i know the guy i was watching it with practically had to wipe off his chin! ;-)" I don't have any comment on you personally, but your comment says something about the image of a male in society. It is a huge overgeneralization. It is incredibly unfair to say that the male population liked her outfit. Maybe most did. I completely understand human sexuality and attraction, but this was not attractive to me. Maybe its because I've got my philosophy all screwed up for real life in todays world. Who knows. Oh, by the way, to those of you that know me, I don't have any children, and I'm not married. I just thought I'd try and portray my image of the schoolgirl to try and make a point. Good day to you all. joe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:53:12 EST From: MaSeSF95@aol.com Subject: SNL I think that the show was great specially when jewel was on. What the hell is up with then guys kissing that just blew my mind. I think jewel look really good/very good, anyway the skirt was fine to me well have to fly. John The lonely loving Angel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:38:09 -0600 From: cmgordon2@juno.com (Courtney M Gordon) Subject: Jewel/criticism This is just my two cents on the thought that Jewel sets herself up for crititcism. Maybe she does, but maybe she does it on purpose and has a reason. Like to prove something after she gets the criticism....or something. Oh nevermind. I don't know what I'm talking about, don't listen to me. Love hugz and lollipops Courtney ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:29:57 -0600 From: cmgordon2@juno.com (Courtney M Gordon) Subject: Saturday Night Live I think that the performance last night (that sounded just about perverted) was really good. Maybe the song isn't the best to sing live, but she sang it really well. I think she looked beautiful, although the skirt could have been a little longer, but hey, whatever works for her. I think it was a really good performance of Hands, and I didn't get to watch the "Down So Long" performance, but I'm sure that went well also. Have a great day, angels! Love and lollipops Courtney the hyper angel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:55:14 EST From: Num1JwlFan@aol.com Subject: SNL Well, the performances were great, but as for the outfit and the dancing, I don't really "approve", so to speak. Her dancing was a bit much for a song like "Hands". I mean, she's talking about how we're god's hands and reflections of hands and all she can do is go-go dance.... Well, that's all I have to say. I'm a bit dissapointed... - -Jenny The Angel With Silver Lining ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:35:53 EST From: JEWELA383@aol.com Subject: Jewel in Wizard of Oz Hi this is my first time ever posting and the reason im posting is to see if anyone out there has a tape of Jewel in The Wizard of Oz im so mad at myself for not taping it before but there is nothing i can do about that now except ask if any of you guys have it. If you do please email me privately with Wizard of Oz in the subject. Thanks! Heather The future moviestar angel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:30:00 -0600 From: Philip Nelson Subject: My Rant: Give the girl a break Mailing lists are funny. The true-blue die-hard fans subscribe and take turns criticizing the person they admire most. I rarely post to the list, but read it everyday and have noticed an annoying trend of criticism. Who cares what clothes Jewel is wearing, if she has on makeup, if she uses electric instruments or shaves her head. I'm a fan because I admire her music and Jewels message of kindness and generosity. This isn't just a problem on this mailing list, I work in the computer animation industry and most animation mailing lists are the EXACT same way. People love a particular software and then spend most of their time griping about it or criticizing the company that makes it. The Jewel Mailing list should be different. People should spend their time focusing on the positive instead of trying to tear someone down. My 2 cents!! Thanks for reading. Ciao, Philip Nelson The Animating Angel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:50:32 -0600 From: christie hasenberg Subject: Re: SNL! yep I did! at first it was like oh woah..skirt is a LITTLE up there...but she was really getting into the song..it was really cool... Robby VanSciver wrote: > Hey! > I just saw Jewel perform on Saturday Night Live! > Well...The first thing I noticed — she danced! Anyone else notice this > at all? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Wong Subject: Is it my imagination? Is it my imagination or is there more discussion about whether or not her skirt was appropriate than her musical performance? Very well, since I had to work late and missed the show (in NYC on business; I wasn't able to program the vcr to tape it before I left California), I'll comment based on what I have read here. Jewel was in New York City, on a Saturday night (SNL, duh :) In case no one's noticed, when you got out on a Saturday night in NYC, you dress to impress. It's precisely because she was making a public appearance that it's appropriate for her to have worn an outfit as people have described. Not required, but hardly controversial. A long evening gown might have been a nice touch, but probably a bit over the top for SNL. On the musical performance issue, did anyone tape the show? I know I caught Good Morning America (or whatever it was that was on Thursday) if anyone wants to trade. Ray Ray Wong PO BOX 6163 negativl@best.com, negativl@netcom.com Hayward, CA 94540-6163 Member #11537, Deborah Gibson International Fan Club Co-Founder and Charter Member, Sutton Foster International Fan Club ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:49:52 -0500 From: Mike Connell Subject: Jewel on Saturday Night Live - my take Personally, I thought the performances were fine and dandy :-) Both songs sounded impressive live, Hands was fine (I loved the variations) and Down So Long rocked a bit like it does on the tapes I have, and by golly it certainly looked like she was having fun out there! To me, in my opinion, that is likely because she has missed music and performing it. Remember, she's taken nearly a year off from performing on a regular basis (she had said she was bored with music.....likely from more than 800 annual appearances for two years straight), and THIS is the week she's beginning a return to a deep, deep love of hers that she had given up for a while. She's recharged her batteries and she's back :-) .....and she was having FUN. Isn't THAT what it's all about? Really? The skirt? I dunno. While I don't think it flattered her at all (she ain't got the thighs for it, but then neither do I), who gives a rat's patootie really? The way I look at it....hey, it's Saturday night. It's Manhattan. She's a young gal and a quite perty one at that. It's a live TV show. It's Saturday Night Live.....her first live performance in the "The City That Never Sleeps" in ages. So she dressed in a short skirt? Big deal. Something tells me 40,000 other girls in New York City did so last night too. I am quite certain you won't see something like that when she's on Rosie O'Donnell.....it's called "dressing for the occasion". All in all though, I say give the gal a break. She can wear what she wants. It's America ;-) Besides, if Steve Poltz had shown up to play guitar and was wearing a matching leather skirt, I know damn well it would not have phased his fans on the Rugburns list one bit, they don't care about his attire, they care about the music ;-) Mike :-) * If you are new to the Jewel list and need a helping hand, * or have a burning question about Jewel and/or the list, * The Jewel/EveryDay Angels List Homepage & Guide is at: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup * Many basic/common Jewel and list questions can be answered there :-) * * If you can't find the answer on the page have any list related * questions, please feel free to email me at ducksoup@spectra.net * or you can IM me on either of the AOL names below: * DuckOfPrey or WhyADuck55 on AOL or AOL Instant Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:21:49 EST From: HBANGER70@aol.com Subject: nyc tuesday Any EDA's going to nyc to see Jewel tuesday. Anyone from Long Island? Email me!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:34:49 EST From: Ruppus@aol.com Subject: Re: My Rant: Give the girl a break Just because we are big fans of Jewel, does that mean we have to like every single thing she does? We're being honest. We love Jewel's music- that's why we are on the mailing list. People don't become EDA's because they like how Jewel dresses or dances, so there are going to be people who complain about it. Overall, don't criticize people for giving their two cents when you are doing the same. - --Jon, Webmaster of GGTA http://listen.to/ggta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:44:18 PST From: "Scott Evans" Subject: Enough with "The Skirt" Already! Ok, we get the point..Some people like the skirt...some thought it was way too short (like me) and some really didn't care...enough already, there's plenty of other performances coming up this week, so we'll just see if jewel has completely changed or if SNL was a fluke..I would've hated to be on the list when Jewel wore "The Grammy Dress"...oooh...And to all the people who were saying that Jewel's clothes don't matter as long as the music's good...Well, she should dress presentable...I'm glad she didn't try to get down on her knees and pray...The skirt would've ripped..okay, I'm getting off track, but you have to admit, that was a LITTLE short...Plus, I don't think I've seen any posts that have focused ONLY on her dress (like someone said earlier)..well, i'm just commenting on various things..i have to go to a party now, so talk to y'all later.. Scott Evans The Masochistic Angel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:46:15 +0000 From: "Kevin J. Elliott" Subject: re: (please read) SNL, the skirt, and sluttiness used to..... Ok, first off, my whole take on the skirt. I've never been one to judge on physical appearance and this is no difference. Its funny that something like a skirt has spurned such a discussion (though i won't complain since i am participating now) In my eyes... Jewel is first and foremost, a real person. Not some imaginary or crafted product of record companies or media . True she may be a celebrity and i think that's great that she gets the recognition but she has no obligation to any of us or the public in general. We chose to be fans just as we can choose to stop (not me!). If she does something a few of us don't like.. oh well, she's human. She can make her own choices and mistakes (which is a term left open to interpretation) I think some fans take their fandom too far and use words like "she betrayed me with that dress," etc... Hence the word fan(atic). >NOW, that said, here's my main point. A woman's appearance has >NOTHING to >do with her intelligence or level of talent. Women will NEVER be >equal until >In her most recent book Elizabeth Wurtzel(one of my fave >"femininst" >authors) has some brilliant things to say about this subject. I totally agree. People who judge on appearance to me have a certain ignorance.. but let this be said for men too.. not only women. Though I am not a feminist.. I do agree with many feminist ideals/attitudes. I just think applying yourself to a group (feminist/liberal/conservative) is stereotyping yourself and it stops people from getting to know anything more about you than a label. Sothe only label i adhere to myself is "human." (please spare this mailing list from any fights over feminism, etc.. and if you have an argument with me, e-mail me privately) And I have read Elizabeth Wurtzel too.. I think she is a brilliant mind and one of the things she says that i love is that feminism cannot solve many things. This attitude makes me respect her even more.. She doesn't claimto have all of the answers. She admits her flaws (as we all should....I know i have plenty) :P So, i guess in closing.. It's a dress.. of course people are going to notice it.. (i'm not going to pretend i didn't) but anyone of normal maturity should be able to respect it as her choice and just get over it. Her music isn't changing because of the dress...only your perceptions are changing because of you. Okay, i'm done.. :) sorry if this bothered anyone. P.S. Many of you were commenting on Jewel without a guitar during the performance of "Hands" Isn't that because she didn't play guitar on the recorded version? I think it would have been kind of silly for her to hold a guitar the whole time and not play it. - -Peace - -Kevin J. Elliott - -www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/8370 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:50:14 EST From: GRIMCITY@aol.com Subject: What Jewel was wearing on Snl Whatever Jewel wants to wear is fine by me. We all know she has talent. I see nothing wrong with Jewel wearing something different. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:06:18 EST From: MAXMOUZE@aol.com Subject: Stuff First of all, I want to say I went to L.A. yesterday and I picked up the two Hands imports. I'm playing "Innocence Maintained" right now. Oh my gosh, it's horrible. I think the problem with this album is Jewel wants to give all of her songs a new sound so she changes them so much that they sound new. But it was just fine before. I don't like the Jewelstock version but I like the version performed at Bearsville. But, geez, it's really an ugly song now. Speaking of which, I did not like how Jewel performed "Hands". I think she was also trying to waver from the original version by singing at different parts but it just didn't sound as beautiful, it seemed like it was just a song. Jewel is notorious for putting so much emotion into the song when she sang but that wasn't the case this time. And, about the skirt -- you guys, get a life. This is the late 90s and Jewel is a woman. It's her legs and she's allowed to show a little skin if she wants. You only live once, you know. Your not her parents and you have to accept the fact that little Jewel is now 24 and she can wear whatever she wants. I did, however, think "Down So Long" was awesome and I think the song is going to be a hit. Too bad she didn't produce "Down" because that's the same kind of rock song that the world will eat up. I can't believe that all these songs I once knew will now be in the hearts of strangers every where, even those who don't like Jewel but own a radio. I hope they produce my least favorite songs as singles, then I won't feel so bad. - -- Mark ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V3 #611 ***************************