From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V3 #556 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Friday, October 16 1998 Volume 03 : Number 556 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * jewel-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY the word * unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Jewel tour dates, go to: * http://jewel.zoonation.com and click on "TOUR" * OR * go to the OFFICIAL Jewel home page at http://www.jeweljk.com * and go to the "What, When, Where" section * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: jewel-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- TV Appearances.... [Allan ] "Change" the subject you say? ["Jeremy Mull" ] Re: Hands, great song and much more [MADwand@earthling.net (MADwand)] picking at the thread [Jesse A McDonald ] RE: "Bob Dylan Live 1966" and Jewel's album "Spirit" ["Adrian du Plessis] CD single of HANDS in HOLLAND contains 3 tracks.. [Michiel van Gorkum ] NJC: Emm Gryner @ Bearsville [!] [Paul Schreiber Subject: TV Appearances.... That's SNL 11-14 Rosie O'Donnell 11-18 Jay Leno 11-19 Letterman 11-26 Rockerfeller Center Christmas droadcast 12-22 The only problem I see with these upcoming TV appearances is that we will likley hear the same song four times..... "Hands" I suspect. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:33:54 -0700 From: "Jeremy Mull" Subject: "Change" the subject you say? Howdy everybody -- just wanted to add my perspective of the whole Jewel changing controversy. I think both sides (change is good vs. change is bad) make good points. And I'm afraid I won't be the wise one who puts an end to the discussion. Because Jewel's album is apparently different then POY means that she's keeping her integrity and honesty. POY is where she was at when she recorded the album. And like everybody else who hasn't been in a coma the past 5 years she has changed since then. So Spirit is where she's at now. Maybe she thinks Spirit is better then Pieces of You. But I don't think she's ashamed of POY in fact she's probably quite proud of it over all. Regarding the production of Spirit I have a little faith that Jewel wouldn't cut a song in a way she didn't like. She's never come across to me as one who's worried about numbers and money. So if one doesn't like Spirit it might be because of a difference in musical tastes then it is Jewel's motives. Won't it be interested when we hear more of Jewel's take on Spirit? Enjoy, Jeremy "And I hear them saying you'll never change things And no matter what you do it's still the same thing But it's not the world that I am changing I do this so this world will know That it will not change me " -- Garth Brooks, The Change ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 04:50:27 GMT From: MADwand@earthling.net (MADwand) Subject: Re: Hands, great song and much more On Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:20:51 EDT, Krz4catz@aol.com wrote: Sender: owner-jewel@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ::Anyways, after I heard the ::song, and LOVED it soooo much, I truly understand the meaning, though it takes ::on many, and my whole opinion changed. Well I don't. I like the tune and she sings it well, but what the hell is she talking about? They are her hands not yours. What has that got to do with anything?I heard no other reference in the song to doing anything with her hands, so why this fixation on whose they are? Someone make ME truly understand the meaning of this. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:04:07 -0300 (ADT) From: Jesse A McDonald Subject: picking at the thread It's been stated and restated that no-one wants to hear a rehash of POY... I think that can go without saying from now on... no-one said they wanted to hear her do another POY... she had dozens of songs up to and including those on POY, and they were not REHASHES of one another simply because they mostly featured similar instrumentation... and while there was obvious musical growth, there was no sudden DEVIANCE from the overall ethic, which is what I see in Hands. It's not like a new step for Jewel, it's like a new Jewel. > "There is this strange belief that we can't enjoy something once it's > popular. This seems cowardice to me. We should have the courage to > exalt that which moves us." Maybe it's just personal to me, but I have difficulty imagining someone being moved by Hands, and that's the point. I don't remember anyone complaining about Jewel's popularity. The problem with the analogies to The Beatles and Bob Dylan is that those artists were breaking new ground with their drastic production innovations, whereas Hands is NOT new ground. It's not even new for Jewel, it's just an extension of what we should have seen coming with the radio remix of Foolish Games... she's getting swept up in the mainstream. >"There is a difference between SELLING OUT and BLOSSOMING." Mark, no-one ever blossomed onto the radio. | Jesse Dangerously http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ad309 | subterranean seraph 16 Trust Everyone | ad309@chebucto.ns.ca Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudha Vadanti | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:45:33 -0700 From: "Adrian du Plessis" Subject: RE: "Bob Dylan Live 1966" and Jewel's album "Spirit" Greg Willms wrote: "Just accept the fact that everyone thinks differently, and *most* people have opinions worth listening to, even if you don't agree. You'd be amazed at what you can learn about people just by listening and understanding." that's very sound -- but something that you may be overlooking in wondering why these threads are carrying on at what seems like cross purposes is one common element; aside from the perennial discussion about Jewel's popularity and growth, there have been some specific posts in which Sean Hooks didn't take your advice and has said that people are *wrong*, not suggesting that they are expressing different views, but that they are wrong or ludicrously stupid. After distorting the positions of both, Mr BB (who never said that change was good OR bad -- just interesting) and Dakota Kane (who never compared "Hands" with the '66 Dylan concert in Manchester is ludicrous), Sean just carries on and never redresses his mischaracterization of their words. People who are trying to engage in a rational discussion naturally find it frustrating when one party to the discussion fails to acknowledge the actual points they are making and, instead, spins off into tangents that are not responsive to the issues raised. Sean obviously puts thought into his posts -- maybe too much thought in that he "can't see the woods for the trees" as another old saw goes. I think Mr BB and Dakota, who have seen and heard a few things that make them, as Greg puts it, people with "opinions worth listening to, even if you don't agree", are just looking to have their points noted even if Sean has no answer for them. But to just keep rolling on, and spinning words that are dismissive of people trying to have a legitimate conversation centering on an artist, Jewel, whom we hopefully all respect -- well that's disrespectful of other EDAs and can be annoying. I also understand that private email is sent to EDAs to make them feel stupid or wrong because they voice different opinions. That is disgraceful and hopefully, with more active input from a broader spectrum of voices on this list, this pseudo-intellectual bullying will lessen and cease. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:26:13 +0200 From: Michiel van Gorkum Subject: CD single of HANDS in HOLLAND contains 3 tracks.. hello jewel fans, i am a happy person as i have got the single cd of Jewel's Hands as a nice gesture from a friend. it's for my use only of course. the single cd of Jewel contains a lovely black/white photo of Jewel. It's so lovely, so simple but Jewel really looks sweet, and innocent on the photo. Jewel's hair is lovely, and her dress is really cute. It's just the same lovely girl from alaska when she started her career . I could see as a photo the closeup of Jewel Hands too, they are crossed but really lovely to see her hands making an expression about human being close and related to each other. The single cd contains 3 tracks : of course Hands, and others we all love and adore are "innocence maintained" and "(stranger) enter from the east" (acoustically). i am a very happy fan right now, i play this single over and over again. Jewel is still and will always be my number one favourite. Nothing can change that anymore. Anyway i like this single cd as you all can imagine! Michiel Number #1 Fan of Jewel in Holland :-) http://members.xoom.com/Jewelimpala/index.html A dutch tribute to Jewel - A beautiful angel from alaska * If i could tell the world just one thing, it would be that we're all ok. And not to worry because worry is wasteful. And useless in times like these. I won't be idle with despair. I will gather myself around my faith . For the light does the darkness most fear * Jewel Kilcher (c) 1998 Wiggly Tooth ASCAP WB ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:05:50 -0400 From: Mike Schlosser Subject: Interesting Thoughts About Spirit I just have to say that this has to be the biggest debate since the 'Oprah' appearance, however I had an interesting thought which I will now share: Some EDAs have insisted upon 'judging' Spirit before it's even released, I for one am perfectly happy to wait. I think some EDAs are 'doubting' Spirit frankly because it isn't the "Bearsville Sessions' If you want to here 'Bearsville Era' songs listen to some AngelFood for god sake, While 'Hands' isn't my favorite song I'm sure it doesn't reflect the whole album. I detested the single version of 'Foolish Games' but everyone must remember that music is a business and for Spirit to even be released there has to be at least one 'pop' song to drive sales... Just my opinion, Discussion is good let the debate roll on Cheers, - --Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:19:58 -0400 From: Paul Schreiber Subject: NJC: Emm Gryner @ Bearsville [!] Emm's wonderful -- catch her if you can. I know there's a special relationship between EDAs and Bearsville. :-) >From: Joni Daniels >Subject: new Emm Gryner concert announcement > >Emm Gryner will be playing (with her band) at the Bearsville Theater in >Woodstock NY on Saturday October 24. The show is a breast cancer benefit >put on by the local radio station WDST. It will be broadcast live on that >station, as well as on the internet radio station, radiowoodstock.com. >Webcast starts at 8pm. Paul shad 96c / 3A CS / mac activist / eda / fumbler fan of / jewel / sophie b. hawkins / sarah slean / steve poltz / / x-files / buffy / dawson's creek / habs / bills / 49ers / t h i n k d i f f e r e n t. "dont forget to get perfect moments stuck between your teeth." -- jewel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:35:01 EDT From: MetalicaI@aol.com Subject: Hands Does anyone know of a site where i can download Hands. No radio station in my town is playing the song! Please respond to me privately. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:46:31 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: Not yours, they are my own. >> Jesse A McDonald writes: > I think it was Kevin Pease who said that making an album that >anyone doesn't like isn't failing as an artist. That's true. However, I >don't believe that creating product for sale is an artistic endeavor. I'm >not saying that an artist has to be totally unconcerned with matters of >finances, just this - the POINT matters. If the POINT is to make money, >that's not art. If the POINT is to express or invoke emotion or concepts >or SOMEthing... that is art. Yep, that was me. :) Okay, now I'm truly curious... do you *honestly* believe that Jewel wrote this album simply to make money? Yes, that's why Atlantic is releasing it - they're hoping to make more money than god. And I'm sure Jewel isn't going to mind if she makes fistfuls of cash off of it, too. But I think you're *really* short-selling Jewel if you're saying that you think that she woke up one morning, said "I feel like writing an album of commercially-accessible, radio-friendly, emotionally bereft pop songs just to make some money. I love top-40 pop, by god, and I'm going to cash in on that." Yes, I'm sure there's pressure from Atlantic, but I also doubt they held her at gunpoint and said, "HEY! Write us some radio-friendly pop songs, missy! And you're not leaving until you produce every shred of feeling out of them!" And I'm really serious here - do you *truly* think that that's why she wrote these songs, and made this album? I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, and say that she probably wrote it hoping to move & express & touch people... whether or not it will remains to be seen. >Obviously those two concepts are yin and yang relative to one >another, and they most often exist in varying levels, together. >Hands is a sonic money maker. I'll agree with that statement 100%... as I said, I'm not really crazy about Hands... it's not a *bad* song, but it's not a *great* song, either... I've heard a lot that I'd consider worse, I've heard a lot that I'd consider better. I guess, though, I'm reserving my judgement of what Spirit will be like until I hear the whole thing. As I also asked before, why are we surprised that a slickly produced, radio-friendly song (gasp! :) is the first single? If, after listening to the whole album, I find that it all sounds & feels empty, I'll maybe agree that I didn't think the change in her sound was all that cool. I refuse to be pessimistic, however, and assume that every other song will sound & feel like Hands, and that this album will be relegated to my "Eh, listen to it once a year maybe" rack. > Oh yes, and it was also said that POY had very different sounds on >it, so Spirit most likely will, as well... I beg to differ. I found POY >to be very uniform in terms of production, even between the live and >studio recordings. That doesn't mean that Spirit will be, but... well >there's only one producer on this record, right? I don't know if this is in reference to something I said or not... I don't think I said I felt POY had different sounds on it, but I did say that "I've never felt Jewel was a 'one-trick pony' - to me, she's always been an artist who seems to enjoy trying new styles and sounds." Looking at *all* the songs I've heard of hers, not just POY, I think it's fair to say that she does seem to experiment with different styles and sounds... I'll agree that the production on POY seems fairly consistent throughout, and I'd say that it's sort of a "snapshot" of one facet of Jewel's style... maybe Spirit will be another "snapshot" of another style. But, maybe there will be some different sounds & styles on the album, it's too early to say, really. Basically, my point is (and has been) this: To base all of our expectations on the one album Jewel's put out is statistically invalid... you can't determine a pattern from one piece of data... instead of fearing the worst (or assuming the best), why not just wait, and see what happens with the second album? Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sitting here at the water's edge now that the storm has gone, First time in years it feels like nothing's wrong, There've been a lot of changes, I was so lost for a while, Sitting here I remember how it's easy to smile..." ---(Heather Nova, "Grow Young")--- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:18:28 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: "Bob Dylan Live 1966" and Jewel's album "Spirit" >> Sean Hooks writes: >[...] >Good. But he was doing fine for a while with something that, like I said, >wasn't broke so he didn;t fix it. He stayed that way for 4 or 5 albums before >the famous concert that guy spoke of and his infamous turn to more electric >music that had people calling him a turncoat a betrayer and a Judas. And I find myself wondering how many CD's we could fill up with "folky" music by Jewel... I'd bet we could get 4 or 5 CD's out of songs she wrote up until the end of 1996... most of the "early Jewel" stuff I've heard has been very folky... Sean, I've got to admit, I'm completely puzzled by this statement. Jewel has already written tons of "folky" songs, does she have to release them on CD first, and establish herself as a folk singer, before she's allowed to change? She's been using that same folk song formula for quite a while now... You'd think that, with the number of good songs she's written, she'd get the benefit of the doubt when her record company released a song to radio that you didn't like. Great, you don't like Hands... but to judge the whole CD (that you haven't even heard, unless you've got an inside track none of us do) on the basis of that one song is a pretty shaky stand to take. To judge Jewel's whole "new sound" on the basis of that one song is a pretty shaky stand to take. Criticize the song, Hands until you're blue in the face if you want to, I'm not going to argue with you on that. I *will* disagree, however, with your rush to judge a whole album, and the direction Jewel's career is taking, based on the one song we've heard off of Spirit. Since you haven't heard the rest of the album, why do you assume it will all sound like Hands? Why is it beyond the realm of possibility that Hands is the most radio-friendly song on the CD, and that's why it was released? Why is it so shocking and unthinkable that the most radio-friendly song on the CD would be released to radio as a single? I'm also curious what you think about the fact that a good portion of this album is songs that have been around for quite a while. You keep saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... Since they were written a while back, prior to the recording and production of Spirit... is it broke, or isn't it? The lyrics & the tune I'm guessing will be pretty much the same, but the songs will (maybe) have a different arrangement & instrumentation, and production... is Jewel losing her "artistic integrity" because she decided to rework some of her older songs, and fiddle with them, and produce them up? I don't think so... If I were her, I'd probably get pretty damned sick of playing Deep Water or Fragile Flame or Innocence Maintained the same way every time, and I'd be *dying* to try something new with them. I am very curious to know how you reconcile the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" statements with the fact that a good portion of Spirit was written before she "fixed" things. >Just had to disparage this afwul analogy between the Dylan Manchester show and >the discussion we have been having about Jewel. Actually, I thought the analogy was rather good, and I think if you go back and read the letter again and think about it before firing off a gut-reaction letter, you'll see that Dakota made some good points. Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Sitting here at the water's edge now that the storm has gone, First time in years it feels like nothing's wrong, There've been a lot of changes, I was so lost for a while, Sitting here I remember how it's easy to smile..." ---(Heather Nova, "Grow Young")--- ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V3 #556 ***************************