From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V3 #554 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Thursday, October 15 1998 Volume 03 : Number 554 * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * jewel-digest-request@smoe.org with ONLY the word * unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Jewel tour dates, go to: * http://jewel.zoonation.com and click on "TOUR" * OR * go to the OFFICIAL Jewel home page at http://www.jeweljk.com * and go to the "What, When, Where" section * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: jewel-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Selfishness?? [corina1013@webtv.net (Corina Froelicher)] RE: NJC: Re: spare change, by Mr BB ["Willms, Gregory J." ] Re: Jewel's song Emily [MAXMOUZE@aol.com] Re: NJC: Re: spare change, by Mr BB [MAXMOUZE@aol.com] Change!!! Go JEWEL! [Rhino ] Jewel and popularity [blh301@coombs.anu.edu.au (Barry Howarth)] "Hands" Video Shoot [Johnnie Young ] SH Angel signing off :( [CloudWingz@aol.com] Re: Jewel's song Emily [ABershaw@aol.com] Not yours, they are my own. [Jesse A McDonald ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:15:16 -0400 (EDT) From: corina1013@webtv.net (Corina Froelicher) Subject: RE: Selfishness?? Jewel's ANWA was so NOT a cop out in my opinion anyway. I didn't know she signed a contract, but I still don't believe Jewel would let anyone make a profit from her product if she didn't believe in it. It's like being a sales person, you don't make much money selling something you don't stand behind. I truly believe that Jewel knew what she wanted to do with this Cd, and I believe she did it. I don't think she would allow record exec's to change how she wanted things done, and in the end, how they turned out. I'm a Libra too, 10-13!! Let me guess your bday is Sept 30th?? Anywho we're not talking about Tears for Fears, damn it, we are talking about Jewel!! Almost no one is innocent forever, not that it doesn't need to be maintained, but just because someone is aware of their surroundings, doesn't mean they have lost their innocence. Wasn't WWSYS written by Jewel when shefirst visited LA, and her observations?? You don't have to live on green acres all your life to be innocent, you can grow up in the city and be innocent, I'm sure it's rare, but I'm sure it happens. Corina We are better than who we have become ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:18:22 -0400 From: "Willms, Gregory J." Subject: RE: NJC: Re: spare change, by Mr BB I agree with Sean. I've heard "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applied to many things, including artistic and creative things. Take a look at Tom Petty. He's been making the same music for over 20 years. His style never changes. But you know what? People love it. This all boils down to one very very simple thing. Do you like Jewel's older music (i.e. Innerchange Days and Rare Angels) or do you like her new music (i.e. Foolish Games performed with a full band, orchestra, and backing vocals)? Which do you prefer more? Her money and popularity have nothing to do with it, I really don't care that she's rich and famous now, I was simply trying to say that it's, in some way shape or form, caused her music to change from the stuff that I liked, to more radio-friendly pop stuff that I don't like quite as much. The repercussions of her fame are what I'm criticizing, not HER. Somehow this has been distorted into what bands have become famous in the past and literal interpretations of popular cliches. Doesn't seem like anyone can voice an opinion or reasonably challenge someone else without something just short of world war III breaking out. - -Greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:36:26 EDT From: RussRive@aol.com Subject: Adrian's Jewel "growth" comments Long time, no speak. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving. I wish Thanksgiving would come quicker so I could turn 21 already. Anyway, I do have an answer to your post. You write: If people would stop trying to intellectualize Jewel's artistic growth, they'd stand a better chance of appreciating its real worth. I must ask: Isn't there something intrinsically intellectual about art? All forms of music are studied to determine whether it is well-written, well- performed and the like. People spend whole years studying the growth in Beethoven's music or David Mamet's plays in comparison to each other, over time, and in context of the society in which they live. Are we not entitled to do the same with Jewel? Although she does not currently (and may never have) the importance that these other people had in their field and time period. I cannot offer my thoughts on the music in question because I have yet to hear it, but what is wrong with criticizing what we hear? We may think of it what we may. The fact that everyone does offer their opinions means that they care. I'd rather hear Jewel with her own sound and not something that sounds like Natalie Imbruglia. Jewel is a different artist than Natalie and all other currently popular female artists. Each one should be different. If I were to hear it, and feel that she did sound like Natalie or Fiona or Tori or Tara, I'd be upset. With whom? The producer? Jewel? The song itself? I don't know. Also, considering we've only heard one song from the album (as currently produced), we should, in general, reserve judgment until we've all had a chance to hear the whole thing on November 17 or whenever we have access to it. I, for one, would love to see Jewel "grow". Each of us has to realize, however, that we are nothing but innocent bystanders in this process. We don't effect her music or (in any real day-to-day way) her life, so all we can do is sit back, listen, think, and hopefully enjoy. Back under the table for me in hiding, Russell Rebel without a clue ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:39:42 EDT From: Sean35RL@aol.com Subject: re: "Bob Dylan Live 1966" and Jewel's album "Spirit" Ugh. You people keep missing the point. Change CAN be good. Change CAN be bad. Comparing Jewel's new song "Hands" to the '66 Dylan concert in Manchester is ludicrous. In one case someone was bucking the mainstream, in the other the person is making their music more mainstream. Of course Dylan going electric was a good thing because his lyrics and folkiness did not suffer from it. If he had simply gone electric and all his poetic lyrics were lost it would not have been a good thing. Change for the sake of change is not good. Dylan going electric was growth. Jewel conforming to the current definition of what is a pop song is not growth. I don't inherently dislike any Jewel song just because it isn't purely solo acoustic. Some of her stuff done with bands has really excelled. But although change can be good and growth is almost always good, staying the same is NOT necessarily bad. To use Dylan as an example, what about his masterpiece albums before he went electric? Bob Dylan, The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, Another Side of Bob Dylan. The songs Blowin's in the Wind and The Times They Are a Changin' and A Hard Rain's a Gonna Fall are all basically the same musically. Simple folk music, simple guitar strumming, and brilliant lyrics. OK so Like a Rolling Stone is great too. It's differen. Good. But he was doing fine for a while with something that, like I said, wasn't broke so he didn;t fix it. He stayed that way for 4 or 5 albums before the famous concert that guy spoke of and his infamous turn to more electric music that had people calling him a turncoat a betrayer and a Judas. And by the way, Dylan did not say "play f-ing loug" or any other such phrase to the band after that guy in the crowd called him a Judas. That is a myth. Dylan himself has said that he said nothing to the band, he just nodded and they got the idea that that's what he wanted to do. He never actually yelled at them or said anything. Just had to disparage this afwul analogy between the Dylan Manchester show and the discussion we have been having about Jewel. Later, Sean Hooks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:53:35 EDT From: Sean35RL@aol.com Subject: SJC:Mr BB's selling out vs. don't change thing, continued OK, calling you wrong flat out was perhaps a bit extreme but I like to blunt and just assume that you, and others, are intelligent to know that it means, You're wrong in my opinion. And when I talk about the changes REM and U2 have undergone not doing them well, I meant not doing their music well. I judge the art not the artist, and their art, their music, has definitely suffered as of recently. The impact of drastic change on their own lives is not the point. What is the point is that their more recent albums will not be considered as influential, important, and just plain out good as their other albums. I'm a huge Springsteen fan and his albums Lucky Town and Human Touch were an attempt to change, to try something different. They pretty much just sucked and don't hold a candle to his earlier albums, and some of his work since. 20 years from now people will still be recognizing Born to Run and Darkness on the Edge of Town and Nebraska and The Ghost of Tom Joad as great album, historical masterworks that are among the best music created in the last 20 years. Same goes for Dylan, his last album Time Out of Mind was his first relevent, important, critically acclaimed album in about 14 or 15 years. That's just how it is with art. I'm not against change. I'm against the change that doesn't work. And I'm aware that you sometimes have to fail before you can succeed again, but that should not prevent people from accurately criticizing those failures. Writer's, directors, actors, musician's. Not every thing they do is gonna be of the utmost highest qualities. Very few artists have had flawless careers with each effort equal to the previous one. Jewel won't break that trend I'm sure. But we have the right to criticize her failures just as much as we have the right to laud praise and acclaims on her greatness. Later, Sean Hooks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:55:37 -0400 From: "glenda" Subject: Which is better, change or not? it doesn't matter. Jewel is jewel and we are we. it's completely up to her. richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:14:19 EDT From: MAXMOUZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Jewel's song Emily In a message dated 10/15/98 2:21:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Fabsurfgrl@AOL.com writes: << Does anyone know the background of the song "Emily"? I was wondering if Emily was a metaphor or a real person. >> It was written for "The Crossing Guard" based on a character named Emily in the movie who is killed and her alcoholic father has to deal with it, and sort of blames himself. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:17:30 EDT From: MAXMOUZE@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Re: spare change, by Mr BB In a message dated 10/15/98 2:58:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Gregory.Willms@qwest.net writes: << Do you like Jewel's older music (i.e. Innerchange Days and Rare Angels) or do you like her new music (i.e. Foolish Games performed with a full band, orchestra, and backing vocals)? >> Awhile ago all my favorite songs were Innerchange songs and I loved them more than anything but now I'm starting to get interested in "Barcelona" and "Kiss the Flame" and blah blah blah blah... I have never heard a Jewel song I didn't like (some took time to grow on me though). "Hands" is just another really good one to me. I am not going to look down upon any song because it'd have to be REALLY bad for me not to go around singing it all day. - -- Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:24:25 -0700 From: Rhino Subject: Change!!! Go JEWEL! Hi peeps, I'd like to just clarify a few things that I said in my other post that were brought to my attention. First of all, I didn't mean that crying when listening to music was a BAD thing. I just meant that it's okay to be moved by a song and not be made to cry. I mean, if you cry, then you were touched. If you don't, you can still be just as touched, though in a different light. Catch my drift?? If somebody didn't cry during Hands, then that's their problem. Not the song's. Everyone's different and I'm SO happy about it!! (Thanks for bringing that to my attention, and for the NICE e-mail). Ok, and about this... (ooh, it just gets my goat.. :) ) Staying the same is boring. Change is interesting. Very nicely said. Straight to the point. You go Mr. BB... word up!! :) ...then the retaliation... Wrong Alan. Change is not inherently or intrinsically good I'm sorry, did he say change was good anywhere in that post?? NO. He said change is INTERESTING. Big difference. And change is good in my book, anyway. Change IS growth. Sure, you can change for the worse, but that's just growth in the wrong direction. Really, it's a moot point. We could argue philosophy on this list forever, and never gain an inch. :) Personally, I don't like being psychoanalyzed or put down by people because of an opinion I've stated (you know who you are). I am in tune with my musical tastes, and if I tend to lean toward liking Jewel's new work, then that's my prerogative. To be honest, I would be quite disgusted at a rehash of Pieces Of You. How boring would THAT be? CHANGE IS AWESOME!! Change makes the world go 'round! CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE!!!!!!!!! :) Okie, sorry about the long-winded post. I don't mean to sound bitter, I hope I didn't come across that way too much! Keep smiling, Ryan The jagged little (over-opinionated) angel :) "Where there's a man who has no voice, there ours shall go singing..." - -Jewel, "Hands" of course. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- Jewel Standing By Rhino's Domain http://fly.to/jewel.jk http://www.infomagic.com/~doskocil/rhino/rhino.html ICQ# : 19501801 AOL Instant Messenger: RhinoDosky - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:26:25 +1000 From: blh301@coombs.anu.edu.au (Barry Howarth) Subject: Jewel and popularity Hi Angels, The quotation for October on the Jewel calendar is: "There is this strange belief that we can't enjoy something once it's popular. This seems cowardice to me. We should have the courage to exalt that which moves us." Barry Howarth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:24:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Johnnie Young Subject: "Hands" Video Shoot A friend who worked on the "Hands" video shoot here in Los Angeles just told me that they are going to have to reshoot half of it because some of the footage didn't turn out right. So now I have a second chance to get on the set! Johnnie J. Young jjyoung@primenet.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 19:27:09 EDT From: CloudWingz@aol.com Subject: SH Angel signing off :( Hey Angels, I've been doing some thinking, and I'm going to be trying to rearrange some things in my life. I think I've been doing a lot of following and not even doing on my own part, and it's not a good way to go. And as different and beautiful as the EveryDay Angels are, I think it's time I stopped following Jewel's life so much, and paying more attention to what's going on in my own life, because it can be pretty tumultuous at times, and it deserves attention. I'll definitely miss the list, and I still cherish the friends I've made, so I'll probably join again early next year when I've got some things figured out. Until then, I love everyone lots! ~Jenny KookyBaka Sugar High Angel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:34:12 EDT From: ABershaw@aol.com Subject: Re: Jewel's song Emily In a message dated 10/15/98 7:18:21 PM, Mandy asked: >I so rarely find myself writing to the list for anything, much less a very >valid question that I have never found the answer for. Does anyone know the >background of the song "Emily"? I was wondering if Emily was a metaphor or a >real person. Hi (again) Mandy & others interested, "Emily" is the only song Jewel wrote (that I recall) that could be considered "made to order". When Sean Penn asked her to write something for his movie "The Crossing Guard", she specifically wrote it from the main characters point of view. The main character, (played by Jack Nicholson,) is a guy who's young daughter was killed by a drunk driver. Also of significance, is that "Emily" is really a reworking of Jewel's previously written song "Jessica". The music is almost the same & some of the lyrics to "Jessica" remain in the song "Emily". That be the real story, MrBB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:37:28 -0300 (ADT) From: Jesse A McDonald Subject: Not yours, they are my own. I work a job that some people might consider crummy... "sales associate" at BiWay, which is a smaller Canadian WalMart. At work, when I'm running around stocking shelves, pricing goods or breaking down cardboard boxes, I tend to get bits of songs stuck in my head and they play over and over. Usually it's pretty emotional stuff, since my job is so blah... like for a long time I had the Buck65 line "I don't wanna play no more, I just want to get to sleep / 'cause most likely sleep'll let me forget about the other people / who haven't been able to make me stop feeling / Like demons are hiding in the walls and in the ceiling". Today, on a tight loop, I had "Not yours, they are my own, they're" repeating and repeating... it became a kind of blur... and out of that blur emerged a distinctive, beautiful, haunting melody. It was the word "dance" from Dance Between Two Women.... you know, when she draws it out? Think about that song, then think about Hands. C'mon now. in reply to other things others have posted... That post regarding Dylan's angry "fans" was very insightful, and interesting, but I beg to differ with the application of this allegory... I am not complaining that Jewel is no longer hardcore, that she is no longer "keeping it real" in the common sense. I don't consider myself a folkie, not even a particularly strong fan of folk music. Betraying the genre is not what concerns me, at all. Hands seems empty to me. Totally hollow and bereft of real feeling. I don't think that's entirely the song's fault - it's the sound of the song as much as the content. Maybe if Dylan had started spouting straight up TRITE lyrics and abandoned his usual verbal genius, as well as playing with musical robots, there would be more in common with the two situations. I'm going to have to check out that recording, though. I didn't mean to say that ANWA was a cop out, I was just musing about different permutations of the things I was saying. Jewel, like most major-label artists, is almost certainly bound in paper to produce a certain number of albums within a certain period of time. I also suspect that the label's end of the contract allows them to dump her if she doesn't make them enough money. I don't blame her, really, for signing a contract... that's how records get made. Oh yeah, and my birthday isn't 9/30, it's 10/19 - this monday! ^_^ I think it was Kevin Pease who said that making an album that anyone doesn't like isn't failing as an artist. That's true. However, I don't believe that creating product for sale is an artistic endeavor. I'm not saying that an artist has to be totally unconcerned with matters of finances, just this - the POINT matters. If the POINT is to make money, that's not art. If the POINT is to express or invoke emotion or concepts or SOMEthing... that is art. Obviously those two concepts are yin and yang relative to one another, and they most often exist in varying levels, together. Hands is a sonic money maker. Oh yes, and it was also said that POY had very different sounds on it, so Spirit most likely will, as well... I beg to differ. I found POY to be very uniform in terms of production, even between the live and studio recordings. That doesn't mean that Spirit will be, but... well there's only one producer on this record, right? peace,angels | Jesse Dangerously http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ad309 | subterranean seraph 16 Trust Everyone | ad309@chebucto.ns.ca Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudha Vadanti | ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V3 #554 ***************************