From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V2 #606 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk jewel-digest Sunday, July 27 1997 Volume 02 : Number 606 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Posters [Miguel Rodriguez ] **ATTENTION** LF IN PITTSBURGH, AUG 12 [Heather R Keenan ] Info [Dawlsguy@aol.com] From Alan To the ENTIRE LIST [ABershaw@aol.com] Lilith Fair [Dawlsguy@aol.com] Newbie Screwups [MrLappie@aol.com] This list's closeness and Rachel's letter [Mike Connell ] Re: From Alan To the ENTIRE LIST [st_kuo@ix.netcom.com] Re: Posters (where to find Jewel posters) [Mike Connell ] Re: From Alan To the ENTIRE LIST [Tim S ] Re: poetry lovers [sparksmark@juno.com (Sparks the Everyday Angel)] NJC-West Coast Gathering? [Keith Vierling ] NEW Vinyl POY [Shane Kirk ] free speech and this list [was Re: Fwd: NJC: Question of the...] [the emp] NJC: A bit of a self esteem problem ["Nathan" ] NJC: EDAC: Re: This list's closeness [Rael ] Re:NJc:Question of the week,Real world,Friends,etc.... ["Marija Picard" <] Re: Whatever... [Chwdown@aol.com] Goodbye to all nice angels :'( [LunrRaven@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:01:49 -0700 From: Miguel Rodriguez Subject: Posters To all the angels, Hey, I know this might sound dumb but do any of you out there know where I might pick up a Jewel poster. I haven't been able to find one anywhere. Thanx. Sincerely, JDean "The acting angel" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 01:07:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Heather R Keenan Subject: **ATTENTION** LF IN PITTSBURGH, AUG 12 hello everyone.... an eda gathering is being planned for the aug. 12 lilith fair show...please contact us regarding information on planning a gathering... let us know as if you are planning on attending... we want to see you there.... Heather Keenan "Is there still time? If we wake and discover in life a precious love, will that waking become more heavenly?" **Natalie Merchant "In silence you hear who you are becoming. You create yourself" **Jewel Kilcher ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 01:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Heather R Keenan Subject: Re: NJC: IRC Instructions for those confused... does the irc jewel chat thing cost anything??? just curious.... Heather Keenan "Is there still time? If we wake and discover in life a precious love, will that waking become more heavenly?" **Natalie Merchant "In silence you hear who you are becoming. You create yourself" **Jewel Kilcher ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 01:31:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Dawlsguy@aol.com Subject: NJC: Jewel Pictures If anyone has any Jewel Pictures such as MOV. GIF. BMP. JPG. Could they please send em to me at my other name "LRNKO@AOL.COM" Im trying to start a Jewel Fan Page and Im a little short on Pictures. Sound wav.s would be appreciated to Thanks! Nick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 02:00:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Leftychic@aol.com Subject: fav quotes I believe my favorite Jewel line is not from any song at all... "The things you fear are undefeatable not by their nature, but by your approach" this is one of my favorite quotes also. . .it's my screen save right now Kelly "The Up-And-Coming Angel" {\o/} /_\ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 01:59:08 +0000 From: EDA Hedgehogg Subject: NEW Vinyl POY Sell it to me or....buy a record player. You could also, if you knew of anyone who has a minidisc player get them to record it (I think). Or even find someone with a new recordable cd player....hmmmmm. Personally, I like the first choice. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 02:08:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Dawlsguy@aol.com Subject: Info Hello fellow angels Ij starting a jewel webpage/homepage Im gonna need some Info. If any of you wanna contribute some Information about Jewel Kilchers life, music or anything Itd be greatly appreciated. Thankz! Your fellow angel Nic /< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 02:20:24 -0400 (EDT) From: ABershaw@aol.com Subject: From Alan To the ENTIRE LIST Hello everyone, I'm going to do something I very rarely do & be totally opinionated without knowing details. Lately this list is a mere reflection of what it once was. I know this because I used to have a lot of fun here. Now I only have fun off the list. I often feel like nothing more than a free answering service. Now I see many disturbing things are going on & good people both new & "seasoned" are being treated very badly. Frustration levels are peaking & yes the future of the list is in jeopardy. Jeff, the owner of this list, whose equipment you all are priviledged to enjoy, is rapidly reaching the end of his enthusiasm in continuing the list at all. Today Rachel exploded in frustration in an effort to stop the list from continuing on a death spiral. I'm not defending how anything was said but some good points were made regardless. I'd like to remind you that Rachel has done more work to help new people feel welcome than ANY member of this list ever has. The "Adopt A Newbie" program was her idea & she helped a hell of a lot of people over the past year. Many longterm relationships exist now because of her efforts. Please remember these things when you take ONE POST out of hundreds of days on this list. Tonight a 15 year old girl named Veronica spoke with me & she was extremely upset because she had done/said some foolish things to other listmembers when she joined this list recently. I don't know what exactly she did & I don't care. She was obviously VERY sorry that she's done what she's done but is under the impression that everyone hates her & can never forgive her. I find this hard to believe & very dissipointing. To anyone who is relating to this scenario, I'm asking you to give people a break. Yes sometimes people (especially young or new people) take a foolish approach, say the wrong thing, or even flat out piss you off. I guess what I'm trying to say is lets try & improve the situation here & be a little less judgemental & more forgiving. EVERYONE will feel better & we can get back to why you came here. To be with friends & enjoy music. Did anyone come here for any other reason? Alan(MrBB) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 02:41:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Dawlsguy@aol.com Subject: Lilith Fair After the Tinley Park Lilith fair when is the closest Lilith Fair to Chicago??? Nick {\o/} / \ / _ \ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 03:14:24 -0400 (EDT) From: MrLappie@aol.com Subject: Newbie Screwups Hi My name is John and I consider myself a newbie screwup. I am 17 and I just joined this group a few days ago. I never thought about introducing myself as recent newbies have, which is why i am a screwup. But i want to be a decent part of this group, i want to get to talk to you people. What Alan said in that last mail got to me. I was going to email that girl, but I didnt. i dont know why, maybe i didnt know if I was going to be accepted, but i see now that we members care about each other, and i really like that I am still rather unclear about what goes on here. If any of you veteran EDA's can send me somewhat of a tutorial or something, so i can be a better member, it would be greatly appreciated. Well, its almost 3, I dont want to make myself sound any more stupid or lame than I already do, so i will be leaving now And just out of curiosity, am I supposed to end postings with a lyric from a song or what? I see that very often, so that must be it, right? "I won't come out.You must come into me. Into my womb garden where I peer out. Where i can construct a universe in the skull to rival the real"-James Douglas Morrison Later guys! John the screwup EDA I guess ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 03:22:59 -0400 From: Mike Connell Subject: This list's closeness and Rachel's letter Hi folks, I rarely do this, but I am posting this to the list partially to make ammends to Rachel, as something I said privately was misquoted to the list in a post. A new friend wrote: >She is justified in some of the things she said, but even mike himself told >me over an instant message that he didnt agree with alot of what she said. What I said was (in my OPINION) that she made good points, however some things I disagree with. (which is normal for ANYONE in response to a long letter with many points being made) I'm not in a postion right now to fully give my opinions on Rachels' points (it's 2:30am and I'm bushed), but I do agree with *alot*, that the list is appears less close than it was, but that is partially due to the fact that it is nearly three times as large as it was a year ago and building online friendships takes time, just as it does in the flesh. Last year we were 'forced' into it rather quickly due to Jewelstock. For more than 6 weeks this list was thrust into an exciting anticipation of JewelStock, and also a disappointment for those that could not go. In either case, MANY people on both sides of the fence (going/not going) grew quite close and it's really shown ever since, even though it has subsided somewhat in posts *to the list*. Alot of the 'family' feeling exists on IRC, AOL chat and I'm sure in private Emails. One thing I feel for certain is, this list would not be as close as it is even now had Jewelstock not happened. That fact alone makes it unfair to 'complain' that the list isn't as close as it was. 1) it IS still quite close. Many of the old friendships still exist as I mentioned above. Also, by reading the list I also see clear evidence of many *newer* friendships on this list among folks who have joined in the last few months. (The vets may not see it due to the possibility that many delete alot of list emails from folk they don't know) These newer friendships....they are just another new family or two or three in the neighborhood, that's all. We just gotta have few block parties now and get the many families together. EDA gatherings help ALOT in that regard. Many newer folk were at Bearsville last weekend. They are also meeting other EDAs at many Lilith shows this summer. The closeness IS there, it hasn't really left, it's just spread out more, we got alot of new neighbors. 2) where I DO see a lack in "welcome mats" is online. More than a few new people have IMed me on AOL or written me asking why they can't seem to fit in in AOL chat rooms about Jewel and/or EDAs. (No one has mentioned IRC to me) Now, I really don't frequent the AOL "EveryDay Angels" room like I used to, so I cannot comment first hand on the situation, but logic tells me that just due to the number of folk that have told me they feel this, there must be at least *some* substance to it. Now I fully realize that some "vets" in the chat rooms may very well initiate a 'hello' to newcomers and some of the new folk may be shy and not "come out" (I've seen that firsthand before), but as I said, the number who told me they can't fit in tells me there is some merit to it to some degree. Alan posted tonight about Ronnie. I've chatted ALOT with her in the last week. She's sweet and is an EDA. She knows she made some mistakes in her early days on this list and is truly very sorry. As Alan says, I get the feeling many aren't giving her a chance now, and that is not right and not EDA-like. Darn near everyone of us that has been on this list has made a very regrettable post or two to the list to alienate themselves from some EDAs, even for a bit. (Lord knows I have) But we were pretty much forgiven, and were welcomed back to the 'family' with open arms somewhat quickly. Don't Ronnie and some others on this list deserve the very same? "We are EveryDay Angels, be careful with me 'cause I'm sensitive, and I'd like to stay that way." Some of us need to be reminded of that. Your fellow EDA (who has made some pretty stupid posts on this list and was welcomed back) Mike :) **** The Jewel Mailing List Netiquette & New Member Guide is at: http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup Patty Griffin Tour Dates & more is at: http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttour.htm Ducksoup@spectra.net DuckofPrey@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 01:29:57 EDT From: tiltedhalo@juno.com (Tom Harris) Subject: Re: NJC:What is Coercive Persuasion [FNORD!] I was swimming in a sea of bliss when jon spoke... :-> :-> : Igor sed... :-> :"Loading the language: Creating a new vocabulary, by creating new :-> :words with special meanings understood only by members of the group, :-> :or by giving new and special meanings to familiar words and :-> :phrases." :-> :-> ACK!!!!!!!!!!!! "NJC", "EDA", etc. :-> Who knew? *wink* Oh, we've been managing these things for some time, Jon. You see, we at EDA Control have been hard at work ensuring the proper flow of information on this list. You didn't mention our greatest success, that of "Angelfood." Not a day goes by now that we don't have someone begging for our specially prepared indoctrination tapes prepared by our master tapesmith Alan, code-named "BB" for "Backmask Brainwashing." But still, we really have to thank Igor for that post. There were a few things there that we hadn't properly considered. But now with this info we can streamline our operation and get down to the business of.... well, I can't tell you that. But it'll soon become clear to you as you become more indoctrinated in our group and learn to clear your mind of the outside pollution that prevents you from seeing the truth. Now go eat your applesauce. ;-) - - - --- This message brought to you by the Holy Temple of Eris, Sarcasm Cabal. Beware the Fnords! - -- Hail Eris! - ---Rev. Etienne Telliamed "Why is it that there are so many more horses' asses than there are horses?" -- G. Gordon Liddy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:27:06 +0000 From: EDA Hedgehogg Subject: Feeling left out An open letter to my fellow EDA's: I'm feeling a little left out. I've read about these EDA meetings on AOL but never hear anything about them anywhere else. I'm not a fellow AOL user so I can't get involved in these meetings. Perhaps I'm just uninformed about other gatherings; if so please inform me. If there aren't any other places for meetings i.e. irc chatroom there definately should be. Also, I've noticed several inquiries lately about the ICQ. I'm an ICQ user and just realized that there is not an EDA ICQ list; this is a listing of people who share your interests and whom you can contact (more easily I feel). So I'm asking if maybe this could be arranged. Would the "top angel" please stand up. You are the one who needs to start and take care of this list if it is to be used. Hopefully some of my questions/concerns can be answered and I won't feel so left out. By the way, if any one is going to the Lilith Fair Aug. 12th near Pittsburgh, PA, please contact me if you want to help plan a "gathering of angels"--well, actually its just a plain ole hoopla-in-the-making so you don't need be an angel. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 97 22:36:19 GMT From: st_kuo@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: From Alan To the ENTIRE LIST I do hope that this list will not be discontinued because I've made so many friends and got my angelfood and met EDAs in person who were extremely nice to me. I realize that this list is not what it once was. There'll always be high and low points in anything and I guess we are kind of at the low end, in terms of enthusiasm. But, I do believe there's strong argument for the maintanence of Jewel mailing list. One, to spread the music of Jewel. Second, to make EDAs grow and prosper. Third, the place where people can receive love, kindness, help, support...I think you get the picture. To make this list less conflict-prone, I propose that we refrain from saying things that are negative and just keep what we say in good taste. Of course people will say that it's just like censorship. Believe me I do not advocate that at all but I see a lot of people saying things that were misunderstood which result in flame letters, which make them upset cuz they think they are being misunderstood and all the tension grow. I think that's the key reason why the enthusiasm of this list is going down; people are being offended/flamed/misundertood everyday. We should keep this list simple and enjoyable. Well that's my .02 cents anyway and I don't expect people to catch on but I just hope this list will remain and grow and get better. I love you all. EDA always, Stanley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 03:30:29 -0400 From: Mike Connell Subject: Re: Posters (where to find Jewel posters) Miguel Rodriguez wrote: > Hey, I know this might sound dumb but do any of you out >there know where I might pick up a Jewel poster. I haven't been able to >find one anywhere. Thanx. I've had quite good luck at USED CD stores and used CD conventions/shows. These store owners and vendors at the shows get alot of their stuff from radio stations and distributors, so they have it in supply alot more that the regular stores at malls etc. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 04:02:22 -0400 (EDT) From: EDABlade@aol.com Subject: NJC: Me off to Nyc/ Newbies Dear Angels, How are you all? Well ill be off to Nyc this week so ill miss all of you terribly. Im bringing the laptop but its not the same. We gotta stay a family no matter what happens. Remember the common link. Our angel Jewel. Well for all those getting tapes from me all the tapes have been sent. =) All tapes that will get to me by this coming week will be dubbed as soon as possible. Newbies still looking for angelfood im still offering to Dub Rare Angels95 and Irivng Plaza show (1/26/97). So if your interested in it please email me over at TonyAngelFood@juno.com. drop me a note over there. Also a big thanks to who ever that has helped me out with this. My heart goes out to you. Well im off in 2 hrs. Night everyone! - -Tony PS- the bearsville posts are wonderful only wish i coulda been there. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 02:08:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Albert Sze-Wei Wang Subject: In support of Rachel On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 Chwdown@aol.com wrote: > This letter is about what Rachel (Cornflkgl) addressed eariler today. I do > agree w/ her that the posts can get annoying but then, they are also saying > that we are comfortable enough w/ each other to act goofy or talk about stuff > that normal friends would. This is fine, but there's a huge problem that a lot of people don't get. When you post something, you are completely responsible for what you say and how it can be interpreted. As the poster, YOU are responsible if someone can take it the wrong way. Sure your friends will know what you're saying, but not everyone will- and if the message is really just for your friends, send them email directly. I think it's people using this list as their own personal bulletin board that has a lot of people upset. This is *not* a general bulletin board. This is a list to talk about Jewel and what it means to be every day angels. I have a lot of friends on this list, but I send them private email when it's not Jewel related or if it's something that really only concerns a small group of people and not all 900+ people. > I know that some of it should be kept to > ourselves, like stuff about other bands and singers but a lot of posts put > some humor into the mailing list, making it more interesting or not so > official (not that Jewel isn't AWSOME!). I don't think posts promoting other bands is a bad thing, it's all the editorial comments from person A saying "they suck!" and person B saying "no they don't!" that really has started to turn off a lot of people. Then there are the people who stupidly post things that can be taken the wrong way and think that everyone knows who they are and what they mean. Absolutely wrong. I know for a fact that UNTIL you meet someone in person, you WON'T know what their words really mean. After Bearsville, I got a good idea what a lot of list people mean when they use specific words, but everyone needs to be responsible with their words to make sure it's clear to everyone EXACTLY what you mean. This IS the EDA list, but there have been cases in the past where there have been people on this list who have been anything BUT what it means to be an Every Day Angel. Consequently, everyone needs to please please please look at what you're writing and decide if EVERYONE needs to see it (show the rest of us some consideration and respect), or if it should just go to your buddies in private email. > I don't mean that all the posts we > put up are appropriate, we should definatly think about what we write and if > it would annoy or hurt someone but we should also, all be caring enough > towards everyone, enough to remember that everyone here loves Jewel no matter > what they post. Actually, a lot of posts recently have been less than appropriate, and I can definitely appreciate the frustration of a lot of people on the Jewel list. There are A LOT of people out there who aren't happy with the way things have been going, so I think we should all stop and ask ourselves what we're doing. Anyone who says "well, tough shit," should probably ask themselves if that's terribly EDA-like to not care about how the rest of us feel. EDAs care about other EDAs and try to be considerate and respectful. Not everyone on the list has the spirit of an EDA, but it wouldn't hurt to try right? 1) Promoting other artists is great, but detailed discussions of that non-Jewel artist should be conducted in email (eg. the same two people responding back and forth about how Sarah McLaughlin rolls her toilet paper or what's going on her next album, or how Hanson is better than Guns and Roses or whatever, etc) If you're comparing 2 groups and one of them isn't Jewel, it doesn't belong here. Some would even argue that comparing Jewel to anyone is a pointless exercise (and I tend to agree with them), but everyone is entitled to their opinion. 2) Then again, for the most part, if you're not talking about Jewel, pitching new artists (helping promote CDs or shows), helping to organize or promote EDA gatherings or events (helping real life people, etc), helping people on the list, or asking for help because of personal problems, it probably doesn't belong here. This post falls under helping people on the list and since it's directed at everyone, it's posted to the list. Now had this been directed at only a few people, I'd have sent private email not because it's the right thing to do, but because I respect everyone enough that I wouldn't want to bombard their mailboxes with email that's not pertinent to them. See how that works? :) :) :) 3) Posts that can be interpreted as inflammatory (aka flame bait) don't belong here unless it is clearly noted you're kidding around. Sorry, but as angelic as we are, not all of us knows everyone else and we're not all psychic, so if you say something that can sound unangelic when you read it and really are just kidding around, say you're kidding. It has amazed me at times how stupid a lot of people are in thinking that their words only mean how they meant it and not what it says. Those are two different things people! How you meant it and what it says can be two entirely different things. Think about this line: If you can't say exactly what you mean, it didn't say what you meant. 4) Personal attacks belong ONLY in private email. ("Your mamma wears army boots!", "So-and-so is an idiot!", etc) 5) Flaming generally doesn't belong here. I say generally because I know it's always going to happen. We can try to keep it to a minimum but know that though most of the people here are EDAs, not everyone is. Burritohead was one example of what many would consider the epitomy of jerkdom by being deliberately obnoxious and trying to get people upset on purpose. A couple of flames thrown in public is going to happen as a fact of reality, but try to read ahead to see if someone has already responded before you jump into the fray as well. After the third or fourth flame, it gets old, so if it's already been done, don't do it in public. Just send private email to the offender and just flood the offender's mailbox instead of his and all of ours. ^_^;;;;; I read some of the posts responding to Rachel and though Rachel was expressing her opinion, I read responses to Rachel that were akin to "get a grip girl" and then saying that they weren't flaming her. Sorry folks, if you tell someone to get a grip you're flaming them. It doesn't belong here. Really. A lot of people have simply NOT been watching what they're saying and it's really really tough on the other 900+ of us here to look at you and think you're anything EDA-like. 6) This is family mailing-list. What this means is that there are small children reading this list as well. Don't say ANYTHING you wouldn't say in front of a sweet, innocent, impressionable child. ^_^ If everyone pitches in and takes a second to think about the other 900+ of us out here before they post, I think we'll eliminate a lot of problems. So for the most part, if what you're about to post isn't Jewel-related, pitching new artists (helping promote CDs or shows), helping to organize or promote EDA gatherings or events (helping people in real life, etc), helping people on the list, or asking for help because of personal problems, it probably doesn't belong here. So let's all start being considerate and stop giving alot of lip-service to that idea. Each of us are responsible for our actions. Let's all try to show some consideration to the 900+ people on this list and think about what it is we're posting before we post it. :) Send all responses and comments to me in private email ONLY. To those of you who don't and just don't really read these posts, I paraphrase Dennis Harris from Bearsville, "You know, you guys are all EDAs, and I really really love all of you, but sometimes you guys can be REALLY stupid!!" Albert Wang Dark Seraph bahamude@user1.channel1.com Jewel Quotes and QTs http://hugse1.harvard.edu/~wangal/jewel.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:57:51 -0700 From: Tim S Subject: Re: From Alan To the ENTIRE LIST > EVERYONE will feel better & we can get back >to why you came here. To be with friends & enjoy music. >Did anyone come here for any other reason? > > Alan(MrBB) > > Hi, I just wanted to chime in here and say I couldn't agree more with Alan's letter. It is wise and intelligent things that he suggests. This group has always represented for me, a place to share some time with friends and talk about one of the greatest things in life....music. Jewel happens to be the specific focus but we can often suggest and discuss any and all music. I know that's why I am here. So, I think we should all ask ourselves why we subscribe to this list. To argue? To infurate? To condem? To judge? No...I think not. At least I hope not. Life is much to short, not to enjoy the things that we have in our lives that are good. Music is good. Friends are a good. At least in my life they are. Try to keep that idea, the idea of music and friends, in your head when you post or respond or read posts. Are arguing, infurating, condeming, judging good things? Again I think not. Temper the things you say, in your posts or response to posts, with common sense and intelligence. Most importantly remember 1300+ other people will have the potential to be AFFECTED by what you post. To follow one of my own words of advice... Life could be 100% more fun, productive, less stressing, meaningful if we all THOUGHT about what we said BEFORE we said it. This phrase of course applies to the written word also. Now, because I am thinking about what I am writing here, let me say this. If you have a problem with what I have written reply to me DIRECTLY. Also, be sure it is to me ONLY. I would be happy to discuss with you on a personal level any differences you may have with what I have written. Let me close this down by saying I love this list and the good things it makes happen. If you care about the list and the people who sacrafice their time and efforts, then lets all get with the same program. Tim **Life is best lived without a SCRIPT-ME **"Anything Goes"-Cole Porter **Life could be 100% more fun, productive, less stressing, meaningful if we all THOUGHT about what we said BEFORE we said it-ME ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 04:13:05 EDT From: sparksmark@juno.com (Sparks the Everyday Angel) Subject: Re: poetry lovers millerk@cport.com (Karen Miller) wrote: <> I think that's not a bad idea. :) Poets can read other people's poetry and it may inspire them to write more and more poems. Imagination is one of the most powerful things a human being possesses. Everyone has it, and it's partly through poetry where we can show, express, and expand our ability to create. Like Jewel says...we waste too much of ourselves trying to survive and less time creating. :) Mark - --- Inside my heart there's an empty room. It's waiting for lightning; it's waiting for you. - --Jewel "Absence of Fear" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:14:06 -0700 From: Keith Vierling Subject: NJC-West Coast Gathering? Awhile back there was a gathering in the works to be named Starry Nights. I know it fell through, but I was wondering if we couldn't shoot for another one. I'd be willing to help co-ordinate...just fire me some e-mail people.We could use a little unity right now.Thanks for your consideration. Take Care, Jason V ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:06:18 -0400 From: Shane Kirk Subject: NEW Vinyl POY > Does anyone know why she only released it in Vinyl, and not CD. I already >ordered it, but have no reacord player! What can I do? Either find someone who has a record player and make a tape dub of it, OR go out a buy a record player. You can get a Pioneer turntable to plug into your stereo for like $20. And they sound great..... /@ Shane Kirk \ \ P.O. Box 1783, Inez, Kentucky 41224 ___> \ (__O) \ thumper@eastky.com (____O) \ shain.kirk@sbaonline.gov (____O) \ (__O)_ \ \ \ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/3602/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:59:16 -0400 (EDT) From: the emperor of smurfs Subject: free speech and this list [was Re: Fwd: NJC: Question of the...] Jenny wrote in response to Rachel's post: > Remember that ole' ammendmant? You know, the one about rights to free > speech... well... um... maybe you need to re-read it many EDAs often forget that this is an INTERNATIONAL list. so the United States Constitution is not the governing law of secondly, even if the U.S. Constitution were the governing law of it would still not apply to issues of free speech implicated by the First Amendment which Jenny referenced The First Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech or of the press..." the key word in the Amendment is CONGRESS. for starters, the U.S. Congress cannot abridge free speech. by incorporation by reference, the 14th amendment ensures that states must also provide the same constitutional protections afforded by the federal government. so Congress can be interpreted to mean "any governmental actor" may not abridge free speech. over the last 24 hours a few people have mentioned that, Jeff Wasilko expends his own personal resources to operate this list. clearly, Jeff is NOT a governmental actor. the First Amendment could not apply to this situation even if the United States Constitution were the only body of law applicable to since Jeff is the owner of this list, his decisions are controlling. back around September of last year, there were MANY heated debates about JC v. NJC. at that time, the list completely drfited off of discussing Jewel, and instead we were flooded with discussions about TV Trivia, Transformers, Super Nintendo, and Astrology. while all of these are interesting topics, they simply don't belong on this list. at that time Jeff posted a message kindly asking to keep the NJC to a minimum. i WISH i had saved that post. i just don't have the time to pore over old digests and find it. i have never once advocated the total elimination of NJC. i have learned some pretty neat things from the NJC comments, but i would advocate a self-discretion when posting NJC. :) Jeff Wasilko, the owner of this list, asked us to keep NJC to a minimum. i think we should abide by his wishes. although i love the first amendment, it is inapplicable to this situation. this just is not the proper forum to use as a chat room. peace, dave *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* Dave DiCicco peaches@dmapub.dma.org "Innocence Maintained" is a moderated, news only email list providing its subscribers with timely information about Jewel Kilcher. If you would like to learn more about subscribing to IM or you have a news item to contribute, please email me. *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:41:31 +0000 From: "Nathan" Subject: NJC: A bit of a self esteem problem It seems I've done it again. I began speaking and another was silenced because of it. I do this everywhere I go. People won't speak or they'll speak less because I'm present. I don't think I maliciously attack people. Yes I do have a strong personality but I've always made it clear that I have nothing against anyone whose opinions conflict mine. I'm posting this now because Allie (my girlfriend and also an EDA) has unsubbed while she's on vacation in Mexico. She told me recently that the reason she doesn't often post to the whole list anymore is because she knows I'll be reading. She says she's a little intimidated by me reading her posts. ALL of my friends have been intimidated by me at some point or another. She doesn't have a problem with this, she just takes it in stride as a part of being with me. I, on the other hand, wonder why I do this to people. I feel like poison. I want to hide from the people I care about but I don't want to lose them. Still, I think it would be best for them to lose me. Crushed under the weight of myself, Nathan dogslife@bigfoot.com "Being a man leaves me cold: that's how it is." -Pablo Neruda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:00:12 -0400 From: Rael Subject: NJC: EDAC: Re: This list's closeness Hello everybody! I want to thank Alan and Mike for putting things into perspective for everyone. Whenever they contribute something you can really get a sense of their sincerity and how much they care and love the people on this list! This list means a great deal to me and I wanted to let everyone know that I am truly grateful for the friendships I've made and the sense of belonging that it has brought to me. We are a family, a community. And with that comes ups and downs. I know we've been going through alot of downs recently and I feel that with alot of gatherings coming up, such as, the LRT and Lilith Fair, the ups will start to come back, and hopefully outway the downs! I think a great thing for everybody to do is go and read over the EDA Yearbook (http://www.endor.org/jewel/yearbook/index.html). This will give an insight as to who we all are and as well as put some faces to the names that we see. Another great page, for insight as to who we all are, is Crash Boys EDA page (http://thespis.com/crashboy/). There are alot of great EDA pictures and stories here from past gatherings and it will make you insanely jealous that you didn't attend. Remember everybody: "WE ARE EVERYDAY ANGELS!!!!!!" Your fellow EDA, Bill P. - -- "I'd rather see the world from another angle..."--Jewel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 08:46:45 PDT From: "Marija Picard" Subject: Re:NJc:Question of the week,Real world,Friends,etc.... I'm new on this list and have only done a few posts. Only one had nothing to do with Jewel. In it I was asking if anyone had some poetry I could read.I'm sorry if I offened you in anyway. I will try to make sure my messages are appropriate for this list. Thanks for your time Marija 0:) P.S. I don't want it to be shut down. Didn't Jewel even say we all make mistakes?? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 12:06:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Chwdown@aol.com Subject: Re: Whatever... In a message dated 97-07-27 07:56:20 EDT, you write: << Do you get it? We don't care for your innane jokes or prattle. I'm not going to tell you to leave (like some others would), but at least keep your rambling confined under the NJC subject Label. We (or most of us) don't care about your stupid problems. I keep hoping that I'll hear from a friend and keep getting adolescent jokes.Please go alittle easy. Jason V >> HI guys, its me again...yea I know, I'll try not to annoy/bore/piss any of u off. I usually don't publiccally post stuff, but this really hurt me. Think before u say stuff, I haven't done anything to you Jason.... I'm sorry for whatever i did. - -Ronnie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:46:51 -0400 (EDT) From: LunrRaven@aol.com Subject: Goodbye to all nice angels :'( To all of you out there who actually care: As we speak, I am unsubscribing to this list. I can not bear the thought of this anymore. I am just sick of all of it. I don't feel welcome. I feel left out. I hear about all your wonderful trips to far off places, over and over and over and over again. More often than not, these accounts don't even have anything to do with Jewel. I read about new boyfriends, camp outs, people playing guitars, water baloon fights. And yes, I don't mind at all. I don't care that I'm reading other's life's stories... But what does bug me... When I actually do try to post, or send out something, or start a nice thread, no one cares... No one gives a damn. And it hurts, It hurts a lot. I know I'm a newbie, you don't have to tell me. I know online friendships take time... And I am very aware of the fact that most of you have been here much longer than me. (Most of you have kept yourselves very busy explaining, and re-explaining to us "NEWBIES" that you have seniority, and that you already have friends...) I just can't deal with a bunch of mean people anymore. BUT! Wait, there is more to this. Yes, you have to read on... What scares me the most is, I thought this list was a place where people could tell others about their lonliness, sadness, or happiness. And feel supported in doing so. Well, the other night I was sitting here sobbing, because I saw all these posts from people who knew each other and were such good friends, and told each other everything. And I knew my sadness wouldn't fit in. I was balled up in my chair, overcome with grief for someone I lost, who was very dear to me, and I couldn't even type. I wanted to post that I needed some help sooooooooooo bad. But I knew all I would get would be flames. From people saying I should keep my personal problems personal, or between the people I knew. So, I sat there, and weeped, alone. No one. Not one person to help me out... But then again, maybe I shouldn't be complaining, RIGHT??? After all, I didn't post it, I'll probably get even MORE flames for not posting it in the first place. WEEEEELLLL when you people decide, to post or not to post. And when you re-think which problems can be posted and which can't. You send me a list. And I'll re-subscribe. But until then... goodbye to all of you who have actually made an attempt to be friends with me. You mean a lot, and maybe We'll meet up again someday :) Bye :'( Jenny, the once singing, but now silenced, ANGEL ~*~"Words can crush things that are unseen, so please be careful with me, I'm sensitive and I'd like to stay that way."~*~ ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V2 #606 ***************************