From: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org (jewel-digest) To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V1 #877 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Sender: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "jewel-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. jewel-digest Thursday, December 19 1996 Volume 01 : Number 877 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: DATS vs MiniDisc RE: LJC: (Little Jewel Content) Kurt Cobain JC (repeated): Late night music schedule NJC: reappearance of me for a moment, tiny comment on kurt Some Christmas Cheer for All You Punchy Folks JS Tapes/Mary Prankster Re: Beck and Call Re: JS Tapes/Mary Prankster Re: NJC:PINK FRISBEES ALL AROUND!!! Re: NJC Musical Suggestions?? see-ya next year Re: NJC: Re: eh!?!? Along time ago....on a Jewel list far, far away.... +roads-L/distrobution list JC: Jewel was just on eMpTyV Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:56:57 -0500 tiny tidbit of info Re: Beck and Call Re: a disturbing conversation The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly Anyone figured out chords to Everything Breaks Sometime?? (fwd) Re: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly Print Media Appearance: Jewel in new Harper's Bazaar tape trees... Re: NJC: home for the holidays NJC: DAT vs Minidisc Re: DATS vs MiniDisc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 01:46:32 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Wong Subject: Re: DATS vs MiniDisc Oh heck, I'm always up for a geeky discussion of technologies, and it's sorta related because it's relevant to taping Jewel shows, right? :) I'm leaving this as going to both Tegan and the list, since Tegan asked, and this might be long enough to get delayed until Jeff can approve it, as it might get long. Sorry if you don't like getting it twice, Tegan, but you asked, and I didn't want you to miss out. :) I'm including the list because this question keeps coming up. Tegan Godwin wrote: >I have a question about DATs vs. MiniDisc. >Which are better to record concerts with. Depends. :) Sorry if this gets long, but it's not a simple question, as much as we'd all (yes, even long winded me :) would like it to be. I'm going to shuffle the order of Tegan's question to get to the encapsulated answer first: >I'm going out to CA to see some concerts and want to buy one or the >other. Which should I do? >Could anyone tell me which is better and for what reason. (I'm putting DAT or MD on the left to indicate which I think has the advantage) DAT Minidisc DAT records full digital sample records lossy compression of sample MD(sorta) SCMS :( no SCMS DAT not affected by shake/bump very vulnerable to shakes/bumps DAT records up to 4-8 hours records up to 74 minutes MD rather bulky very compact MD expensive not as expensive* The two factors I think are most relevant are cost and size. If you can afford DAT, I think it makes a better recording. The penalties you pay, however, are dollars and bulk. Dollars should be obvious: the Sony TCD-D8 goes for over $600 normally. (You can maybe find one, or a nearly identical TCD-D7 for as low as $450) You can find Minidisc recorders like a Sony MZR2 or MZR3 for as low as just over 200, and one person on the list got it for like $150. The DAT recorders are big enough that it's much harder to sneak them in if taping isn't allowed. For a Jewel show this shouldn't matter, but it may depend on the venue. You might want to bring a copy of the magazine article where she talks about liking the way fans tape her shows. :) If you can afford the bulk of DAT, an even better recorder would be the TASCAM, which is professional, unlike the Sony, so it has no SCMS. It's also large enough to be completly obvious (think hardcover book). Basically, I consider DAT to be the preferred recorder if you can. Minidisc is one of many options when you can't get DAT for some reason. I'll also state something you shouldn't forget: The microphone makes a HUGE difference, moreso than what the recording is on, in a way. All that you record has to pass through that mic, so a lousy mic will result in a great recording of lousy sound. shop around. You can stop here if you're not interested in why I've said the things I've said about the technology itself of DAT vs Minidisc. Ray - ----------------- Okay, now lets get some detail, in case anyone wants to know. >DATs are tapes which will wear down >Minidisc record on CDs. Okay, DAT's do wear down, but so does Minidisc, sort of. :) DAT tracks at ~8 1/3mm/sec (== .5meters/min, right?) which is about 1/3 inch/sec, which is less than 15/32 inch/sec. 15/32 inch/sec would be a quarter the 1 7/8 inch/second of normal cassette tapes. This is very slow, and as such, there's very little wearing of the DAT, and very little flaking of the magnetic media from the tape substratum. Onto the explanations of the factors I think matter: DAT is traditional straight digital sampling, at 32, 44.1 or 48 kHz, (48 is normal SP, 44.1 is if you happen to make a digital copy of something already there, or if your DAT recorder can be set to that, and 32 is the LP mode. 44.1/48 yields 20-20,000 Hz freqency response 32 drops it to 20-14,500 Hz.) Minidisc does a 44.1 kHz sample, but compresses the data stream (Using something called ATRAC (Adaptive TRansform Acoustic Coding)... they don't call it compression, but this is a really fancy way of saying that MD technology creates the digital sample like CD, but then comes up with a way of approximating that value in a way that takes up less memory. If you think ATRAC is so good, then answer one question for me: Why have there already been FOUR generations of ATRAC, when MiniDisc has only been around since around 1991/2? DAT has had the technology improved, but nothing is really different except the approach to Analog to Digital conversion, which both technologies share. (And DAT's been around longer) so, point one, DAT stores MORE information (more accurately) of the music recorded. DAT then, while it will slowly wear out, has more information to lose... Also, the DAT technology was designed to be pretty redundant, so it can afford some loss of tape integrity while still maintaining it's original "recording." You can also make copies without loss of data, sort of. Copying: well, with DAT, you don't lose data in copying, but you might not be ABLE to copy it. DAT's biggest source of detracting comments is usually SCMS, (Serial Copy Management System) which I posted about when the question of "what is DAT" came up before. Pro DAT stuff doesn't have it, but all consumer stuff, like the equipment most of us have, does. SCMS can be overridden, but it's not for the faint of heart. It requires some electronics skills, which, if you have, you're probably getting really bored with this post. (you're probably bored anyway, for which I apologize, but I'm still gonna type ;) Minidisc doesn't have SCMS, because there's data loss, so it's not a "perfect" recording/copy, hence the big record labels didn't have a whole lot of ground upon which to stand in claiming this could really "steal" the intellectual property that is music. The copies don't lose data, but again, the original recording did. Sort of like making a CD from some Nth generation tape. The quality wasn't there, so it's not as important. Minidisc isn't really a CD, either. It's Magneto-Optical in nature. Basically, a laser heats the MD up, allowing a magnetic head to manipulate the surface of the recording layer. It's something of a hybrid between a CD and a floppy disk. This isn't quite as reliable as the actual hard pressed CD, which is made of either aluminum(normally) or gold (special CDs, like from Mobile Fidelity, et al), and actually is pressed by the manufacturer into the shape that reflects the read laser... magnetics won't affect a CD, although heat will, and so will scratches. MD is highly vulnerable to bumps and other vibration, which can "crash" the MD, like a computer's Hard Drive could crash if bumped. If this happens while you're recording, the MD could be ruined. DAT, as a tape, doesn't really have enough differential of kinetic energy, nor enough brittleness in the media, to really be affected by shaking/bumping/etc. MD is limited to 60, 74, or whatever time limit the MDs come to. DAT starts at 30 meter tapes, which are either 60 minutes (SP) or 120 mins (LP) and goes to 120meters (4 or 8 hours!) Admittedly, most shows won't go 8 hours, but 3 hours from a 90 meter tape is a rather comforting option, rather than having to try and start recording just as the performer starts the show, or having to swap discs/tapes right in the middle and risking losing part of the show. MD is a lot more compact than DAT. If you have to stealth the recorder in, it's easier to hide the MD recorder than a DAT recorder. Ray Wong PO BOX 6163 negativl@best.com, negativl@netcom.com Hayward, CA 94540-6163 Member #11537, Deborah Gibson International Fan Club Co-Founder and Charter Member, Sutton Foster International Fan Club ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:11:44 -0600 From: Ashe Mayfair Subject: RE: LJC: (Little Jewel Content) Kurt Cobain >> >>"He was definitely the hero for the heroless." -----Jewel on Cobain > >Okay im not gonna make a snap judgment, but someone please tell me what jewel >meant by this?? > Let me quote a movie real quik then I'll talk: "everything decents been done. All the great thems have been used up, and turned into them parks" and "I really don't find it exactly cheerful to be living in the middel of a totaly exausded decade where theres nothing to look forward to and no one ot look up to" (BTW: points if you can tell me what movie that came from :]). That was a movie that just REEKS of teenage angst. What is angst? Just that. The felling that things can't possabliy get worse, that there is nothing out there to do. Thus those are the heroless people. Then comes Cobain. Now he is someone that brings his band in and seems to turn that little peice of the world around in music and so he and Nirvana or dubed at the people that started "grung" music (even if that isn't true). So he is one of these very people with angst, but the made things change and showed those people that there is a futrue and things that can be done. That is what the quoet (from Jewel, see top of post) means. She might have meant something totaly differnt, but oh well... sometimes it be that way. - -Ashe Mayfair ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:31:08 -0700 (MST) From: Chopped Liver Subject: JC (repeated): Late night music schedule You may be interested in these: 19DEC Dave Mathews Band - Letterman 19DEC Melissa Etheridge - Leno 20DEC Stone Temple Pilots - Leno 23DEC Crash Test Dummies - Conan 25DEC !!!JEWEL!!! - Leno (repeat of 12/26/95) Yay! I haven't seen it! 25DEC Brian Setzer Orchestra - Conan Chopped Liver (Charlie) watkins@selway.umt.edu Share publicly, flame privately, " 'Cause anyone can start a conflict it's harder yet to disregard it ". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:33:27 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Matthew Suever Subject: NJC: reappearance of me for a moment, tiny comment on kurt hi everyone! heh, not many of you will know me. i went underground months ago, and the mole lifestyle is still pretty much a necessity at the moment. but just wanted to pop my head up and say i'm still here. wow, a lot has been going on lately. anyway, someone said this and it stuck out to me. i've heard it before and i know the discussion is old, but... > > Kurt Cobain and Nirvana were in the right place at the right time. > Musically - not terribly interesting. Lyrically - he admitted it was ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > gibberish. Popularity - well, the music does kick serious butt; that, ^^^^^^^^^^ > however, does not importance make. If Nirvana was still together, still yeah, well, maybe to some extent it was. but i call that just extreme modesty on his part. something which appeals far more to me than someone saying their work is the greatest stuff ever written. Gonzo 8-~) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:40:08 -0500 From: Crunch Subject: Some Christmas Cheer for All You Punchy Folks =) We wish you a Merry Christmas!! =) We wish you a Merry Christmas!!! =) We wish you a Merry Christmas!!!! =) And a Happy New Year!!!! =) Hey y'all!! =) Are you forgetting what time of year it is? That last digest was absolutely horribly nasty. So here's to better Christmas posts and a giggly New Year!! Smile! Santa is watching you! All the best to everyone! Crunch! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:49:45 -0500 From: Ryan Clark Subject: JS Tapes/Mary Prankster Hey, is this for real? I sent her a message and she said she would be in touch. Could someone tell me if this legitimate or just a prank (like the last name)? Thanks. Ryan Clark clark@ohio.net "Heaven help a boy like me." - --Eugene Kelly ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:14:42 -0600 (CST) From: "BRADLEY C. PORTER" Subject: Re: Beck and Call > > > > It's a shame that you are wrong. Sure there are other aspects to music In the purest sense of the word, no opinion can ever be "wrong" it is only that, on opinion. Even psychotics beleive they are acting for the good of themselves and mankind... SenztvRtst KErmit Scooter> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:17:09 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Willms Subject: Re: JS Tapes/Mary Prankster i would be inclined to think that its a prank. On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Ryan Clark wrote: > Hey, is this for real? I sent her a message and she said she would be in touch. > Could someone tell me if this legitimate or just a prank (like the last name)? > Thanks. > > Ryan Clark > clark@ohio.net > > "Heaven help a boy like me." > --Eugene Kelly > > - -greg - ---------------------------------------- http://www.geocities.com/broadway/2606 | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I was walking through the country and passing through lovely scenery when I came upon some rotting remains: and though the carcass was wormy... well after all, it's all part of nature's art of cleaning. -- Brad Roberts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Let me have music dying, and I seek no more delight." -- John Keats - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:22:43 -0600 (CST) From: "BRADLEY C. PORTER" Subject: Re: NJC:PINK FRISBEES ALL AROUND!!! > Heres a BIG PINK frisbee for everyone! > > > * * ****** ***** ******* * * > * * * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * ***** > * * * * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * * * > * * ****** ***** ******* * * > Do frisbee's really go "Woozh?" Are you just making this up? Bradley "I would've thought more of a "Zzzzzooooooossshhhhh" sound" Porter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:32:30 -0600 (CST) From: "BRADLEY C. PORTER" Subject: Re: NJC Musical Suggestions?? > Anyway, it dawned on me that I'm conversing with a very eclectic > group and I should be milking it as much as I can! So can any of you, > with the time to spare, send me some future musical suggestions? > Jewel-similar preferred. Maybe even a little info on the artists (as > -Bruce > bhartford3rd@juno.com I was just going to post this to Bruce, but I fugure....what the h-e-double-hockeysticks. If you guys like Jewel, then I would also reccomend (to go back in time a little instead of forward) Shawn Colvin, Joni Mitchell, and especially Joan Baez. Anything and everything by these extremely talented ground-breaking artists is worth a listen. Gald to introduce you to them is you decide to pick them up.... SenztvRtst KErmit Scooter P.-on-the-S. Oh yeah, and be sure to buy all the tapes and CD's that Amy Grant has put out...Ow! Hey I was only kidding!! OUch!! Hey, Stop it!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:33:21 -0800 From: martin bruce Subject: see-ya next year well everyone. the year has almost come to an end. it's time for me to go on a little christmas vacation to see relatives. i'm temporarily getting of the list so i don't get way too much mail. i'm sure you'll all understand. if anyone has something to say send it to me privatly. also i hopE by the time i get back(wich will be about the first) that everyone has kissed and made up. i know i'm a newbie but with all the fighting and bickering it's kind of upsetting. we all got on the list to enjoy and embrace jewel and now you are all fighting about it. oh well see-you all in 1997. merry christmas and happy new-year, mike bruce P.S. I'll proboly send a little hello to the list on x-mas day providing i have an internet capable computer at hand. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:37:26 -0600 (CST) From: "BRADLEY C. PORTER" Subject: Re: NJC: Re: eh!?!? > > It happened to me yesterday, but I don't think anybody noticed, since > nobody reads my letters. Except a few very strange people. :) > > /Alexander "aliments pour animaux" Stamou > > EEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHH! You callin me strange? Well....then....uh........ thanks. Gald to have you back Mr. Short Pimp.... SenztvRtst ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:01:45 -0600 (CST) From: "BRADLEY C. PORTER" Subject: Along time ago....on a Jewel list far, far away.... Someone mentioned a letter a while back (probably a week or so) that this list has seen it's ups and downs, and I was just wondering.... A lot of negative energy is floating around right now (not pointing any fingers or anything) and I was wondering if any of the old list members remeber the same things happening in the past (or has it never been like this before)? Everything must change, and this list (I hope) wil go through much better times (and probably a few worse), but has this ever happened before? SenztvRtst ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:49:47 -0600 From: Ashe Mayfair Subject: +roads-L/distrobution list Ok, as far as the VH1 Crossroads/Launch post I put up... you can stop responding! I have my answers. Thanx to all who helped out. However I have yet to see ANYTHING about my post asking about the disribution lists. Anyone out there know? Maybe there just waiting till later. Well. Bye. - -Ashe Mayfair ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:54:48 -0500 From: Slunk69090@aol.com Subject: JC: Jewel was just on eMpTyV For all who care to know, They mentioned Jewel on MTV on some special, wherein the greatest female vocalists of 1996 were reviewed! It was immediately following a mention of the Fugees. Pauly Shore said something to the effect of: "My favorite female singer, who's really cute, and good, and...um...nice, would have to be Jewel and that sweet little song she plays on the guitar." Then they started showing the video for WWSYS and then cut to an interview with her. She said something to the effect of: "Well, since I've entered the music business, I've had to keep myself calm and relaxed, so I'll go to the bathroom 'to pray' and just hang out there. It's really nice. It's my opinion that the bathroom is the last sacred place on Earth. Ya know, girls go there in restaraunts to cry, boy go there for their first smoke. So that's why I shot the video there." Then they cut back to the video to hear..."bust your butts. Who will save your..." and they cut to the Mtv Beach House performance: "SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLLLLL if you won't save your own" LOTS of clapping! Then they move on to see if you can pronounce the name "Neve so-and-so" ( It's apparantly pronounced "Nehv" ... SO to recap...something came on TV...and at 3:49 PM ET during that program...Jewel appeared, CHECK YOUR VCRS and TV GUIDES! ( One of my first JC posts! ) \\\|/// º¿º V Mac You can call me Slunkers! ( or the genius if you deem it necessary ) Look for me on IRC, as Slunkers! "Like a daisy rooted in rot and rubbish. Asked to grow in strange rooms, fed neon and cold pizza" Jewel -As A Child I Walked ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:56:57 -0500 From: "Lucas McDonald" Subject: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:56:57 -0500 I got a response of course I responded at like 5:00 this morning it said "You're in tape or DAT? I'll be in touch" and that was it Hope and have some faith in humanity Lucas "Red Dawg" McDonald Lmcdonal@knoxnews.com "There is a theory that states if anyone ever figures out what the universe is here for, it will immediately be replaced by something more bizarre and inexplicable." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:03:00 -0500 From: Phish396@aol.com Subject: tiny tidbit of info Well, I know this is pretty much nothing but as I was driving to my photo. class this morning I thought of you all. I heard an add for Jewel. There was a 2 min part of an interview that just talked about when she was 18 she lived in her car and stole TP from resturants. So, thats it. Nothing much. Merry Christmas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:26:19 -0800 From: "Richard A. Bond, Jr." Subject: Re: Beck and Call > The existance of Nirvana was as important as any other > band ever. They turned Soundgarden from Metal into Modern Rock, the ywere > responsible for what Metallica has done on thei new record. OH NO!! Not the dedicated Nirvana fan sticking up for them. The Nirvava=god thread. No offense to you at all...please don't think I'm bashing you...I've just been through so many of these threads, and I personally think they had SOME decent tunes, but for the most part weren't very good. I also highly doubt that Metallica sat around and said "well let's do this album like this because of Nirvana". I doubt Nirvana had a big influence on Metallica at all. I just think Metallica losin' it, and hope they get it back. OH NO!! Now look...I've started another old (but more recent than Nirvana) thread....it's the "Metallica now s*cks" thread. I'm gonna go now. :) Take care and Happy Holidays to the EDA's. Rick Bond ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:28:10 -0800 From: "Richard A. Bond, Jr." Subject: Re: a disturbing conversation Lehmann wrote: > I never even KNew you could make money off another artist!! Sure...it's called "sampling". ;) hahaha Rick Bond ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:43:07 -0600 From: "James H. Judd" Subject: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly - - A lot of negative energy is floating around right now (not pointing any - - fingers or anything) and I was wondering if any of the old list members - - remeber the same things happening in the past (or has it never been like - - this before)? - - - - Everything must change, and this list (I hope) wil go through much better - - times (and probably a few worse), but has this ever happened before? Well i'll have been here a year in 2 days, and the list was a very different place when i joined. I remember people being shocked the first time i saw a flame on the list, but no one jumped on the author's case. Several sent private email to him or her (don't remember) and the gentle and understanding tone of the concerned listers caused the author to apologize to the list. It used to be a very happy and idealistic place. But it's still good. Reposting this whole thing since i think it's important: - - I have been on the list about four weeks, maybe a little less, and I - - have seen very little of the attitude I expected out of people that - - all love Jewel's music. Most of what I have seen (or read, whatever) - - has been negative and derogatory towards one person or another, and - - frankly, all of this has left a bad taste in my mouth. There have - - been a few people (you know who you are) who have been extremely kind - - and helpful in getting into the flow of the list, but for the most - - part, each message I read takes away a little bit of the desire I - - have to be on the list. When I joined, maybe under false - - impressions, I thought that we would discuss items re:Jewel, and even - - some not re:Jewel, but regardless of the issue, we would act like - - civilized individuals who have all congregated to the list because we - - have one thing in common, the fact that we love Jewel's music. - - - - Have I overstepped my bounds here? I don't think so, I am merely - - sharing the opinion of one discouraged and confused newbie who isn't - - sure this is where he wants to be and isn't sure if this is what he - - thought he was getting into when he submitted his name to be added to - - the list. - - - - - Todd Doesn't this just break your heart? Things like including entire messages when replying with one-liners, sending mail to the list that should be sent privately, etc are not problems when compared to the negative energy spread when you post hateful mail. Just as Jewel's music touched all of us especially at JewelStock, it touched people we delt with for weeks afterward. It's a powerful chain-effect. Please sit on an email that's not nice and think if it's really something you want to send. The same goes for saying hurtful things in person. Obvious Jewel lyrical references apply for anyone who truely listens to her music. This list is still a great place and one of the best IMO. But it can always be better. Do some good- with Jewel's music (like giving away a boot with no interest in reciprocation) or just plain old good (like donating your time or money) and let us know about it. It makes the good better, since the feelings are spread to many. I gave a copy of Rare Angels to that girl that is having trouble with her rape, and it meant alot to her. I'm sure the daisies didn't hurt either. :) My point is telling others what neat things you've done only spreads the positive effects just as flames spread the negative emotions you're feeling. Tell us what good you've done- it will give us ideas we can use! Okay, well i'm not as optimistic and cheery as this sounds- trust me, i could really use a little venting right now! :) But i'm not going to spread my anger to all of you. I care about you too much for that. And most of the people here do too when they stop to think about the effects of negative mail (and words, and actions). So take it easy EDA's. There has been the question of what it means to be an EDA. It's obvious. EVERYDAY Angels. Be a sweetie- god knows we need more of them in the world. James, who couldn't help enjoy making Jewel snowangels yesterday(yep, in AL) ________________________________________________________________________ Computer Science/Engineering Eng. Network Services Web Guy http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~juddjam Auburn University Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:52:46 -0500 (EST) From: Katie McCurry Subject: Anyone figured out chords to Everything Breaks Sometime?? (fwd) Hey guys- Guess what my queston is :) I'd love to hear from someone out there who ant to play this song as bad asa I do- I'm just really horrible at figuring out chords- So- If anyone has chords to Everything Breaks Sometime, PLEASE let me know! thanks a bunch :) Love, Katie ><}}}"> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:08:07 -0600 From: Ashe Mayfair Subject: Re: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly >can always be better. Do some good- with Jewel's music (like >giving away a boot with no interest in reciprocation) or just >plain old good (like donating your time or money) and let us Well, I think I'm being a nice guy here. I've had the good luck to be able to get some of the Jewel bootlegs form people on the list even tho I've only been here a short time. I have to fellow "newbies" that I talked to on IRC and that I am going to be sending some bootlegs that I have to asking only that they pay for the blank tapes and the S&H. I'm soon going to have more. As soon as the holidays are over I'm gonna post to the list telling what I have and asking if anyone that dosn't have a copy of them wnats a copy, again asking only for the money for blank tapes and the S&H cost. I've been trying hard to make people that are newer then me feel welcome here by doing little things like telling about the websights where you might be able to find non-album Jewel recording that you can get on you computer (as in the Xenomorph sight.. have I posted that URL to the list yet... i've givin it privtly I know.... my sight has a link to it and I know iv'e given my URL [that expiers tommorrow BTW] out... anyways). I'm even in the prosesse of puting together some compaliton tapes of my own. I'm trying to make a tape that I can offer to any and all newbies that inroudce themselfs. The tape I'm trying to do is what I'm calling "Pieces of You: live (or maybe PoY: in concert....somhing like that.) and what I am tying to do is get live recordings of all of the songs on PoY (preferably ones that have a little bit of Jewel telling a story about them before playing) and putting them on a singel tape just for kinda a fun thing. As of yet I'm only gonna have 2 - 3 songs on the tape becaus I want to take all the songs from differnt preformances and I have only a limited number of shows (namely 4 and 1 is rather low quality). If anyone is willing to donate even a singel song (maybe you fav preformanc of Little sister or whatever) to me to help make that tape it would be greatly appreciated. Anyways. That's all I have to say about that. - -Ashe Mayfair BTW: anyone reading this that wants tapes... please don't missunderstand what I said. I am not offering the tapes I have untill early next year. So please don't E-mail me just yet. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 96 15:29:35 EDT From: Michael Solomon/Chronicle Subject: Print Media Appearance: Jewel in new Harper's Bazaar Check out the new Harper's Bazaar (January 97 -- Winona Ryder and Daniel Day-Lewis on the cover). Jewel is in the first fashion spread -- lingerie as outerwear. Great photo. - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:01:20 -0600 From: wheelerj@email.uah.edu (Jaime Wheeler) Subject: tape trees... hi eda... i'm one of the really quiet people on the list... i hear about everyone's wonderful trips to see jewel 4, 5, 6 times... and am a bit green (with envy) and wish jewel would do a concert in the south somewhere... but, until then, i do have a question about tape trees... i.e. how do i get on one...? i can also dub tapes so if that is needed i'm willing to help out... anyway, thanks for the responses in advance and take care... feel free to respond to me directly... happy holidays... jaime... wheelerj@email.uah.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:13:29 -0600 (CST) From: Andrew Vernon Subject: Re: NJC: home for the holidays Becca, > I'm unsubsribing from the list, possibly for up to 4 weeks, to go home > for vacation. ... I envy you collegians... You get to leave your e-mail behind for long stretches, while us Net Pros have to read it everyday or face 20 megabyte spool files from your clients :-) - -- Andrew Vernon E-mail is the Devil avernon@scott.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Wong Subject: NJC: DAT vs Minidisc Just a quick additional note re: DAT and Minidisc: > really close. Minidisc is also good for storage. Sony is the main > proponent of minidisc so it might catch on in the future. Sony was also the main proponent of DAT, and it's only barely caught on. The only real difference in terms of success has been outside the US, where you'll still see some commercial Minidisc releases. DAT has been moderately successful on the pro audio market in the US, but it can't really compete with ADAT or any of the videotape based Digital Audio formats, except for being compact. Sony has learned that marketing can be more important than being the best technology ( a hard lesson for them from the Betamax days), but that's no reason to knowingly accept a format, simply because it "might" catch on. Choose your technology based on your own needs, not what you think others will want, or what you think you're supposed to want. A good pro walkman like the WM-D3 Sony might actually be better suited to you than either DAT or MD. > Whichever you choose, if you are considering to buy portable DAT or > minidisc recorder, prepare to spend $500+ and get a good mic. Right. IMHO, it's better to spend hundreds on a mic and under 300 on the WM-D3 than to use a $10 cheapo mic on a DAT. If you get a cheap mic, you might as well save yourself some money and get a good consumer recording walkman like the Aiwa, which makes very good recordings for the money. (Of course, I should talk; I've got both a DAT and a Minidisc recorder, and I STILL haven't found a mic I like) Ray Wong PO BOX 6163 negativl@best.com, negativl@netcom.com Hayward, CA 94540-6163 Member #11537, Deborah Gibson International Fan Club Co-Founder and Charter Member, Sutton Foster International Fan Club ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 01:46:32 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Wong Subject: Re: DATS vs MiniDisc Oh heck, I'm always up for a geeky discussion of technologies, and it's sorta related because it's relevant to taping Jewel shows, right? :) I'm leaving this as going to both Tegan and the list, since Tegan asked, and this might be long enough to get delayed until Jeff can approve it, as it might get long. Sorry if you don't like getting it twice, Tegan, but you asked, and I didn't want you to miss out. :) I'm including the list because this question keeps coming up. Tegan Godwin wrote: >I have a question about DATs vs. MiniDisc. >Which are better to record concerts with. Depends. :) Sorry if this gets long, but it's not a simple question, as much as we'd all (yes, even long winded me :) would like it to be. I'm going to shuffle the order of Tegan's question to get to the encapsulated answer first: >I'm going out to CA to see some concerts and want to buy one or the >other. Which should I do? >Could anyone tell me which is better and for what reason. (I'm putting DAT or MD on the left to indicate which I think has the advantage) DAT Minidisc DAT records full digital sample records lossy compression of sample MD(sorta) SCMS :( no SCMS DAT not affected by shake/bump very vulnerable to shakes/bumps DAT records up to 4-8 hours records up to 74 minutes MD rather bulky very compact MD expensive not as expensive* The two factors I think are most relevant are cost and size. If you can afford DAT, I think it makes a better recording. The penalties you pay, however, are dollars and bulk. Dollars should be obvious: the Sony TCD-D8 goes for over $600 normally. (You can maybe find one, or a nearly identical TCD-D7 for as low as $450) You can find Minidisc recorders like a Sony MZR2 or MZR3 for as low as just over 200, and one person on the list got it for like $150. The DAT recorders are big enough that it's much harder to sneak them in if taping isn't allowed. For a Jewel show this shouldn't matter, but it may depend on the venue. You might want to bring a copy of the magazine article where she talks about liking the way fans tape her shows. :) If you can afford the bulk of DAT, an even better recorder would be the TASCAM, which is professional, unlike the Sony, so it has no SCMS. It's also large enough to be completly obvious (think hardcover book). Basically, I consider DAT to be the preferred recorder if you can. Minidisc is one of many options when you can't get DAT for some reason. I'll also state something you shouldn't forget: The microphone makes a HUGE difference, moreso than what the recording is on, in a way. All that you record has to pass through that mic, so a lousy mic will result in a great recording of lousy sound. shop around. You can stop here if you're not interested in why I've said the things I've said about the technology itself of DAT vs Minidisc. Ray - ----------------- Okay, now lets get some detail, in case anyone wants to know. >DATs are tapes which will wear down >Minidisc record on CDs. Okay, DAT's do wear down, but so does Minidisc, sort of. :) DAT tracks at ~8 1/3mm/sec (== .5meters/min, right?) which is about 1/3 inch/sec, which is less than 15/32 inch/sec. 15/32 inch/sec would be a quarter the 1 7/8 inch/second of normal cassette tapes. This is very slow, and as such, there's very little wearing of the DAT, and very little flaking of the magnetic media from the tape substratum. Onto the explanations of the factors I think matter: DAT is traditional straight digital sampling, at 32, 44.1 or 48 kHz, (48 is normal SP, 44.1 is if you happen to make a digital copy of something already there, or if your DAT recorder can be set to that, and 32 is the LP mode. 44.1/48 yields 20-20,000 Hz freqency response 32 drops it to 20-14,500 Hz.) Minidisc does a 44.1 kHz sample, but compresses the data stream (Using something called ATRAC (Adaptive TRansform Acoustic Coding)... they don't call it compression, but this is a really fancy way of saying that MD technology creates the digital sample like CD, but then comes up with a way of approximating that value in a way that takes up less memory. If you think ATRAC is so good, then answer one question for me: Why have there already been FOUR generations of ATRAC, when MiniDisc has only been around since around 1991/2? DAT has had the technology improved, but nothing is really different except the approach to Analog to Digital conversion, which both technologies share. (And DAT's been around longer) so, point one, DAT stores MORE information (more accurately) of the music recorded. DAT then, while it will slowly wear out, has more information to lose... Also, the DAT technology was designed to be pretty redundant, so it can afford some loss of tape integrity while still maintaining it's original "recording." You can also make copies without loss of data, sort of. Copying: well, with DAT, you don't lose data in copying, but you might not be ABLE to copy it. DAT's biggest source of detracting comments is usually SCMS, (Serial Copy Management System) which I posted about when the question of "what is DAT" came up before. Pro DAT stuff doesn't have it, but all consumer stuff, like the equipment most of us have, does. SCMS can be overridden, but it's not for the faint of heart. It requires some electronics skills, which, if you have, you're probably getting really bored with this post. (you're probably bored anyway, for which I apologize, but I'm still gonna type ;) Minidisc doesn't have SCMS, because there's data loss, so it's not a "perfect" recording/copy, hence the big record labels didn't have a whole lot of ground upon which to stand in claiming this could really "steal" the intellectual property that is music. The copies don't lose data, but again, the original recording did. Sort of like making a CD from some Nth generation tape. The quality wasn't there, so it's not as important. Minidisc isn't really a CD, either. It's Magneto-Optical in nature. Basically, a laser heats the MD up, allowing a magnetic head to manipulate the surface of the recording layer. It's something of a hybrid between a CD and a floppy disk. This isn't quite as reliable as the actual hard pressed CD, which is made of either aluminum(normally) or gold (special CDs, like from Mobile Fidelity, et al), and actually is pressed by the manufacturer into the shape that reflects the read laser... magnetics won't affect a CD, although heat will, and so will scratches. MD is highly vulnerable to bumps and other vibration, which can "crash" the MD, like a computer's Hard Drive could crash if bumped. If this happens while you're recording, the MD could be ruined. DAT, as a tape, doesn't really have enough differential of kinetic energy, nor enough brittleness in the media, to really be affected by shaking/bumping/etc. MD is limited to 60, 74, or whatever time limit the MDs come to. DAT starts at 30 meter tapes, which are either 60 minutes (SP) or 120 mins (LP) and goes to 120meters (4 or 8 hours!) Admittedly, most shows won't go 8 hours, but 3 hours from a 90 meter tape is a rather comforting option, rather than having to try and start recording just as the performer starts the show, or having to swap discs/tapes right in the middle and risking losing part of the show. MD is a lot more compact than DAT. If you have to stealth the recorder in, it's easier to hide the MD recorder than a DAT recorder. Ray Wong PO BOX 6163 negativl@best.com, negativl@netcom.com Hayward, CA 94540-6163 Member #11537, Deborah Gibson International Fan Club Co-Founder and Charter Member, Sutton Foster International Fan Club ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V1 #877 ***************************