From: owner-jewel-digest To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V1 #772 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "jewel-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. jewel-digest Friday, 15 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 772 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Sean and Thirza, in general... RE: Re: Educate don't condemn NJC: Re: The Great Conjunction NJC, re Educate vs. condemning list problems? Re: Henry and Anais (NJC) Re: Educate don't condemn JC: Henry & Anais Re: Educate don't condemn Jewel and Jefferson Airplane Jewel reading lists, etc NJC: Ouch! Re: Educate don't condemn 3/28/96 Tape Leaf Offer, Dave Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) NJC: metallica Re: NJC: Re: My Favorite Line Upcoming shows Recap..... NJC:Classic dialog from Armand and Jared Re: Educate don't condemn NJC Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Lewis Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:22:50 -0600 Subject: Sean and Thirza, in general... Sean - I know you're getting a lot of flack from your statements, and I won't harsh on you any more, but I would like to point out one thing. I do realize the importance intelligence as much as you do, but I think you are mistaken on the concept of education. (and that's all education, not just "school" education) There are a lot of intelligent people in this world who are not educated, nor will ever be. Education allows for expansion of knowledge and most often stimulates the desire for more knowledge. To put it simply, intelligence is the muscle and education is the exercise. You cannot use your intellect without education, just as you cannot use your muscles without exercising. Now, how do you apply education to a new intellect? As with training for marathons, you must build up a person's ability to receive education. You cannot start off a 14 year old by saying "Here are the classic novels of the world - go and read them and become intellectual!" - -- most often you will disillusion the person since they will not understand everything - they do not have the life experiences on which to compare and apply this new knowledge. But, if you nurture the person's intellectual growth, you can stimulate the educational process of that person to the point that they realize that education is not something just to do in school, but what life and living is all about. Thirza Pearl thought that she had found out something new, and was delighted with her discovery - she gained a piece of knowledge that she never had before. *THAT IS WONDERFUL!* More than anything else, she should be encouraged and congratulated for her success. So what if you knew this before her. 99.9% of what you know was learned by someone else before you! To her, what she discovered is *New* knowledge. She knows more now than what she new before. She has educated herself. And self education is sometimes *much* harder than being taught something by someone else. Sean, as someone who potentially is more educated than others, you should be delighted when people learn things - if nothing else it would bring them closer to what you consider an adequate level of knowledge. *Never* put someone down for learning - only for the lack of desire to learn. I was going to send this to Sean only, then I thought that Thirza Pearl should get it also, then I thought that all the EDA's might be able to benefit from it. So here you go - comments are welcomed. I don't comment often, but I feel that this is important. Chris! P.S. - Sorry to ramble on about education, both my parents are teachers, and I truly love the influence that teachers have had in my life. P.P.S. - Please, just don't tell them - they'll just tell me that they told me so! :-) Christopher G. Lewis Taylor Management Systems, Inc. 2800 River Road, Suite 425 Des Plaines, IL 60018 CHRIS@TAYLORMGT.COM P:(847) 803-1500 - F:(847) 803-1509 Pager (800) 746-8204 ------------------------------ From: Chris Lewis Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:38:49 -0600 Subject: RE: Re: Educate don't condemn On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Selena wrote: > So girls, I guess the moral of the story is that for every guy > you.. uh.. 'do', you must read 2 books. > And guys, the same goes for you. Um - another question - what happens if you re-read a book? Or if you sleep with the same person more than once? I think in my current situation I'd be stuck re-reading the same book over and over again. And what will my girl-friend (or is it woman-friend or female-friend? I think that "significant other" sucks) think if I bring home a new book or two? Geez. Chris! Christopher G. Lewis Taylor Management Systems, Inc. 2800 River Road, Suite 425 Des Plaines, IL 60018 CHRIS@TAYLORMGT.COM P:(847) 803-1500 - F:(847) 803-1509 Pager (800) 746-8204 ------------------------------ From: Christopher Hoeh Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:39:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: NJC: Re: The Great Conjunction > Hello angels, > > Ok, ok Before I write what I am about to write I just want to say > "Please dont throw your frisbee's yet" > > I know that I am probably supposed to know this but What does JC and JHC > mean? > > thirza JC = Jewel Content NJC = No Jewel Content just a polite way to warn people wether or not what you're about to post has any relevance to Miss. Kilcher. Ocassionally, you'll see... SJC = Some Jewel Content LC = List Content or even... TDHBC = Those damn Harris brothers Content ;) - -- chris =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Hoeh Office of Information Technology ch115@prism.gatech.edu Department of Operations/Engineering Atlanta, Georgia Georgia Institute of Technology =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ From: Gerry Lipnowski Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:54:10 -0500 Subject: NJC, re Educate vs. condemning It may be worth noting at this point of the debate that when Sean Hooks paraphrases Thomas Gray by saying 'Ignorance may be blissful...', that the original phrase is an excerpt which says "where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise". It's from Gray's mid-18th century work entitled On a Distant Prospect of Eton College (and, in fact, has some relation to the biblical passage in Ecclesiastes I:I8). I believe a key part of the passage is the reference to 'wise'. Intelligence without wisdom is akin to the proverbial ship without a rudder. It serves no useful purpose, and furthermore, I would contend that one cannot achieve genuine wisdom without a large measure of compassion. Educating one another is something to which we should all aspire. It's an integral element of sharing, and as a newbie, I have thus far been under the impression that sharing is what we're all about. You simply cannot educate anyone effectively in a spirit of hostility. One of my favourite quotations comes from Sir Winston Churchill, who was not only one of the great statesmen of the 20th century, but a prolific writer, a fine historian and a much admired wit. He said "I am always ready to learn; however, I am not always ready to be taught." I believe many of us feel this way. You need to induce a positive atmosphere and encourage people to want to learn. Ridiculing others - and I exclude the 'Soup Nazi' and other comments I've seen othis list that are obviously offered in a spirit of affection - is neither eductional nor wise. Above all, it's not compassionate. Is there some way we can evolve this debate into yielding something positive? I think Mr. Hooks' objectives are fundamentally admirable. Surely there is a way to encourage our fellow EDA's to read more, if we agree that would be something we would like to pursue in common. Why don't we read something together? We could propose a book (or play or poem) that may or may not be Jewel inspired, and discuss it. I, for one, would be very happy to hear a suggested reading from Sean. I would also like to hear a suggestion from Thirza. Would an Anais Nin work be in order? (I would vote for any of the novels in the Cities of the Interior series, which includes the universally acclaimed Spy in the House of Love). Perhaps we could choose one piece per week, or per month; or perhaps we could decide that my suggestion is inappropriate and I'm full of it, and we might be entirely right..... Have a very good weekend everyone (and I mean everyone). Regards, Gerry ------------------------------ From: dkaracos@marlin.utmb.edu Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:59:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: list problems? I haven't received any loose-form mail since 7:13pm Wed. Is anyone else having this problem? The last digest I received is from Mon. #752. I haven't unsubscribed to anything either. Derrick ------------------------------ From: GraywolfLA@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:22:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Henry and Anais (NJC) Charlie -- you stopped right before the best part. The central truth: *All You Need Is Love* Larry ------------------------------ From: GraywolfLA@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:29:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Educate don't condemn That's way ok; Jewel called ALL the EDAs *kids* in describing JewelStock on the Launch CD-ROM. ;-) ------------------------------ From: QRyche76@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:31:48 -0500 Subject: JC: Henry & Anais I thought we needed a benign statement about knowing or not knowing who this lyricized pair were. "You can be Henry Miller and I can be Anais Nin. But this time it will be even better, we'll stay together in the end." Whoever they actually were in real life or another's story, I could figure out that they were two people that loved each other and left each other. I appreciated the lyrical sentiment and moved on. I love Jewel, but I don't need to go out and research every line. Hit the forward button, listen to Adrian, and relax. I, for one, will stay here and listen to the chorus one more time. - Mark - --- Sorry, I was just cleaning my righteousness when it suddenly went off! ------------------------------ From: GraywolfLA@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:32:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Educate don't condemn Selena: Does your reasoning allow me to *do* one *femperson* for every 2 books I've read? If so, I've got a lot of catching up to do! Nah, I know it doesn't work that way. ;-) Larry ------------------------------ From: Garrett Fabian Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:40:06 -0500 Subject: Jewel and Jefferson Airplane One of my favorite songs in my Dad's record colletion is "Somebody to Love" by Jefferson Airplane. I would love to hear Jewel sing it someday--not in her usual voice, but in the same way as how she goes nuts at the end of recent performances of WWSYS, with a lil' bit of that growl Jewel does thrown in for good measure. I'd also like to hear how she'd handle the psychedleic feedback guitar solo. It's not the type of song you'd normally think of Jewel doing, but it's a perfect cover choice for her alter-ego, Rocker Girl :) - --Garrett ------------------------------ From: Trent Smith Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Jewel reading lists, etc A pair of great posts from Chris Lewis and Gerry Lipnowski (hope I spelled that right) that didn't descend into flame-dom. The latter post mentioned the idea of Jewel-inspired reading lists, apropos of which I have to mention that last week I went to a book-store a bought a Big Book of Plato (including "Symposium") as well as a collection of Pablo Neruda poetry; choices obviously inspired by you-know-who. I was wondering if anyone else has done this too (except for Sean Hooks, of course, who's already read it all years ago-- sorry, couldn't help myself). Anyway, I just thought I'd bring that up. Trent Smith P.S. Al the negativity expressed here recently has made me sick. I know you're skeptical, thinking "how can email make somebody sick?" but it can't be a coincidence-- I was just fine a week ago, have been feeling gradually worse, and last night/ early this morning was downright miserable. Luckily I'm feeling a little better now, which I attriburte to the fact that the past few list-messages have all been pretty positive. ------------------------------ From: Trent Smith Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NJC: Ouch! Garrett Fabian wrote: >One of my favorite songs in my Dad's record colletion is "Somebody to Love" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >by Jefferson Airplane. Way to make those of us who have it in our own record collections feel old! Heck, I'm only 21 (22 as of tomorrow), and I have to imagine it's even worse for those, how shall I say, more Elder list-members; but then again maybe they're used to it... Just killing time now, Trent ------------------------------ From: rwm126@psu.edu (Rich Melko) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:55:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Educate don't condemn Personally I don't like Sean Hooks. I never have. I don't even know what he wrote because I never read his ridiculous nonsense. I can't stand people like him who judge others with no other reason but he thinks he is so smart and that gives him the right. He doesn't impress with me with his little quotes and his thoughts on what makes an intellectual. I don't read a lot so I guess I am dumb. Maybe to Sean Hooks. It must hurt to have such small eyes Sean. Such a scewed perception. Maybe there is hope for you and people like you but for now I will just ignore the stupid things that you do and say. Maybe someday someone will open your eyes, closed by what you choose to see and what your wonderful intelligence tells you is what you should see. It doesn't make you a great person to make others feel bad. I realize that I have contradicted myself in a way but since I have never claimed to be a great person or an intellectual, maybe it is OK. Rich Melko rwm126@psu.edu ################################# Jerry - You're Crazy. Kramer - Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind. ################################# ------------------------------ From: brougdms@parkrapids.polaristel.net (Scott Broughton) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:06:44 -0500 Subject: 3/28/96 Tape Leaf Offer, Dave Hello. I'm a leaf for the new tape tree, and wouldn't mind making tapes for people who missed the leaf sign-up. So I guess that means I'm a "semi-permanent" volunteer. E-mail me if you would like me to dub you the concert. I also have and am willing to copy JewelStock, Rare Angels, and Innerchange Days. One of my favorite quotes: "They'd rather jump through hoops in theraputic groups, than in their own minds delve." - Life's a Big Mystery Show Scott "getting in over his head with the 'sharing' thing =)" Broughton e-mail: brougdms@parkrapids.polaristel.net IRC: #rotterham on Efnet listserv: midnightclub@attitude.org internet: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7887/midnightclub.html http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7887/baseoface.html "Such an injustice, as children we are told that from God we fell." - Jewel Thanx to Dave DiCicco for my JewelStock tapes! "Their precious midnight club - would there ever be another?" - - Christopher Pike, The Midnight Club ------------------------------ From: Sean Hooks Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:21:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) Date: 15-Nov-1996 05:00pm EDT From: Hooks, Sean SHOOKS Dept: STUDENT Tel No: TO: Remote INTERNET Address ( _IN%jewel@smoe.org ) Subject: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) Listen Mike Connell. I understand your contention. It is equally sad that the statement I made applies to guys as well. I don't owe anyone an apology. This is an issue I have discussed with my female companion extensively. She is an attypical girl in many ways. She and I both believe that far too many girls conform by using sex to interact with people. Guys are generally not using sex that way, they may be using girls who are selling themselves out but that's another argument. My point is that too many girls think that having sex with a lot of guys gives them some sort of strength or power that they lack. They are abusing sex. Guys are conforming to macho, societally imposd values as well but their behavior is not nearly as pathetic to me as girls who disregard their sexuality and try to use it to fulfill a hole in their lives, selves, and beings. This could also spark off into the debate about how guys always want sex and can dissociate about it whereas girls have the choice to give it up or not and often misinterpret love where there is not love, just a guy who can have sex and then get over it. Well, again, I wish my girl was here to comment about this, her opinions would prob'ly be a lot more accepted than mine, though she completely agrees with me about this subject, she could prob'ly word it better though. You'd respect her because a lot of people on this list hate me and can't look at what I say objectively, and also because it would be coming from a woman. So, Mike, what I said was the one-hundred percent truth, don't deny that. It just happens to be partially true for men as well. To Selena about the connection between intelligence and sexuality. First, there is a difference between sexuality and fucking a lot of guys because you are insecure and have low self-confidence. Guys who get around usually don't do so for those reasons, I guess that should have gone in the Mie paragraph. And second, sexuality and intelligence are related I think because if you don't take care of your sexuality intelligently, it will be abused. It's kinda like, don't let your id run wild and then say, hey, what does my ego have to do with my id. And to Gerry and a couple of other I can't remember who at least partially supported me-thanks. And my book recommendation, hmm, I can only recommend one? I guess I'd have to say to read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley or On the Road by Jack Kerouac. Later, Sean Hooks PS: The following statements hopefully explain a lot about who I am. With them, maybe some of those who were so quick to judge me have a little insight into where I'm coming from. "There's a place in the world for the angry young man With his working class ties and his radical plans He refused to bend he refuses to crawl And he's always at home with his back to the wall And he's proud of his scars and the battles he's lost And he struggles and bleeds as he hangs on his cross And he likes to be known as an angry young man" - -Billy Joel "I'd rather be hated and to have made an impact than to have been liked and be forgotten." - -Lenny Bruce "Nothing's gonna change my world." - -The Beatles "Reverence for oneself; love of oneself; unconditional freedom before oneself...The rest-that is merely mankind. One must be above mankind in strength, in loftiness of soul-in contempt." - -Friedrich Nietzsche "This is a town full of losers and I'm pullin' outta here to win" - -Bruce Springsteen ------------------------------ From: plus@seark.net (plus) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:37:15 -0600 Subject: NJC: metallica sorry for this totally off-the-wall post, but doesn't anyone have any metallica boots? please email me privately. plus ------------------------------ From: racecardriver2@kktv.com Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:52:52 -0500 Subject: Re: NJC: Re: My Favorite Line One of my fave Jewel misconceptions: "I'm sorry I never got to find you like this Sorry you weren't the first guy I ever kissed" :) Chelsea ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "You never heard of a drunk angel? We fly into walls, fly into rages and fly into the sack." Jared 'SuPeRdEfOrMeD aNgEL' Jacobus "I can't live without mayonnaise! The lunch people are fucking communists!!" Elsa West "Gee your ma looked like shit last night hope that tinker toy boyfriend tonks her right then again I never could tell a fist fight from fun Maybe I've never really known anyone" Jewel ChelseaHawk@kktv.com RaceCarDriver2@kktv.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: ABershaw@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:57:14 -0500 Subject: Upcoming shows Recap..... Hi all, For all of you that still care about Jewel, heres a recap on upcoming confirmed dates in December. Other shows are being added. I know Jewel is hangin at home (haven't heard that in a long time!). And for those worried about Lenedra, according to her answering machine, she is expected back next Monday. In the meantime, here's all the shows (that I'm aware of so far) that are definately hapnin'. A few more will be added & I'm sure Hiranya will inform what they are soon. Best wishes-----Alan(MrBB) 96/12/03 WERZ Xmas Concert,Whittmore Center,U of New Hampshire 96/12/04 1996 Billboard Music Awards, Hard Rock Hotel,Las Vegas,NV 96/12/05 Z100 Xmas"Jingle Ball" ,Madison Square Garden,NYC 96/12/06 WXKS 108 FM Acoustic Kissmas,Hard Rock Cafe,Boston, MA. 96/12/07 WKSS "Joy Of Sharing" Charity In Store,Hartford,CT 96/12/08 WHFS "Holiday Nutcracker",George MasonPatriot Center,Fairfax,VA 96/12/11 ?? FM Xmas Show,Westport Playhouse,St Louis,MO 96/12/13 KROQ Acoustic Xmas, Universal Amphitheater,Universal City, CA 96/12/14 KROQ Acoustic Xmas, Universal Amphitheater, Universal City, CA ------------------------------ From: FVVM98B@prodigy.com ( SUPERDEFORMED ANGEL) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:21:38, -0500 Subject: NJC:Classic dialog from Armand and Jared Setting:New York Islanders game. Islander currently destroying Philadelphia. Jared:You know Armand, someday this place is going to be filled with Jewelfans and she's going to look up at retired jersey #22 and say "I didn't know Alan Bershaw played hockey" Armand:Jared look! There's a big blue pig flying throu the rafters! It is it such a horrible thing to dream? Jewel'll show him! SuPeRdEfOrMeD aNgEl ------------------------------ From: gregdunn@indy.net (Greg Dunn) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:57:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Educate don't condemn >That's way ok; Jewel called ALL the EDAs *kids* in describing JewelStock on >the Launch CD-ROM. I may be getting older, but I refuse to grow up! - -- | Greg Dunn | And all you touch and all you see | | GregDunn@aol.com | Is all your life will ever be. | | gregdunn@indy.net | Pink Floyd | | http://members.aol.com/gregdunn | | ------------------------------ From: Mike Connell Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 18:03:41 -0500 Subject: NJC Re: Sexism and why I said girls(from Hooks) First of all, I humbly apologize for again posting to the list on this subject. It is my last. I just cannot let this go without one more rebuttal. Sorry - --------------------------------- Sean, U wrote: > Listen Mike Connell. I understand your contention. It is equally sad that > the statement I made applies to guys as well. I don't owe anyone an > apology. Well, I and many think you do. {snip} > This is an issue I have discussed with my female companion > extensively. She is an attypical girl in many ways. She and I both believe > that far too many girls conform by using sex to interact with people. Guys > are generally not using sex that way, they may be using girls who are > selling themselves out but that's another argument. My point is that too > many girls think that having sex with a lot of guys gives them some sort > of strength or power that they lack. They are abusing sex.{snip} You didn't say ANY OF THAT in your post!! Read what you DID say. BIG DIFFERENCE! You don't just throw a FOURTEEN word statement like that out there and expect EVERYONE to understand what the hell you meant, especially when it NOW took you a thousand words to explain!! You said you know too many girls who 'do' more guys than books they've read. How were we supposed to know what your point was? You also wrote: > So, Mike, what I said was the > one-hundred percent truth, don't deny that. I did not deny it. Read what I said. What, are we are supposed to read your mind on what YOU SAID and all the while you are putting words in my "mouth" that I didn't say? Face it, YOU messed up, not me, not us, YOU DID!!! Mike ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V1 #772 ***************************