From: owner-jewel-digest To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V1 #753 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "jewel-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. jewel-digest Monday, 11 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 753 Today's Subjects: ----------------- NJC Re: jewel-digest V1 #747 acoustic xmas show in LA Re: NJC NJC Re: neo-nazi's... Vinyl POY? Re: NJC: Freedom of choice NJC - Michaels Jewel Jewel I'm back ":) NJC: Rugburns in Escondido Re: couple things (no subject) JEWEL NEWS: MISC: ***LEAF SIGN UP IS PARTIALLY CLOSED*** radio stations (fwd) NJC: For Christ's Sake, listen to other things NJC: SURVEY: Send in your responses. ;) (last call) Re: NJC: For Christ's Sake, listen to other things Re: NJC: Freedom of choice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sinjin@ecn.com Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 22:33:46 -0800 Subject: NJC Re: jewel-digest V1 #747 milagro4@primenet.com wrote: > > I have yet to read a > message from any selfserving, patronizing, egocentric EDA. So what are you saying, you just delete all my posts without reading them? Sarcastically, Sinjin ------------------------------ From: wrdavis@ite.net (Katherine Davis) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:53:07 -0800 Subject: acoustic xmas show in LA If someone is in this area, would they *please* tape the show and email me if they're planning to do so? (I'm rhyming!) I'd like to hear Jewel and a few other performers... PLEASE SOMEONE TAPE THE ENTIRE SHOW!!!! LET'S MAKE A NEW TREE!!!! That's what I want to see! ;) bye frm Guam Kerry ************* CONGRATS SANDY C ON YOUR MARRIAGE!!!!!!! ************* ------------------------------ From: Reggev Michael Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:39:03 +0200 (IST) Subject: Re: NJC NJC Re: neo-nazi's... On Sun, 10 Nov 1996, David wrote: > At 11:14 AM 11/10/96 +0200, it was written: > > >Yes, freedom of speech is very important, but we have to really think of > >what's going on. By allowing neo-nazis to talk about things they think are > >important, we are allowing them to openly make their stands, brainwash > >those who are too innocent to understand what they really are, and > >organize their campaign against Democracy! > > So you wish to choose the topics of _conversation_ that are permitted in > your "democracy" (as well as who gets to make a public stand) in order to > protect those you deem too "innocent" to accurately understand the conversation? > No, I have absolutly no problem with people talking about whatever they want, in private. However, that (persuming I understood the situation correctly) is not quite the case here. What we are talking about here is something along the lines of 'do we want to allow a neo-nazi group to be active here?'. To that, I think we as a community have the right to say no. The promotion of intolerence should not become part of the internet. In this day and age, when we have more efficient ways of communicating, we should do our best to make sure this medium is used to bridge over cultural differences, and to make sure it is not used to spread hatred. We have a right and a duty to defend ourselves. > > With all it's > >benefits, our system of government has one major flaw - it is very > >vulnerable to inside pressure. > > Actually,the major vulnerability of democracy is from an ignorant and > splintered electorate being manipulated by those who have a vested interest > in keeping them ignorant/splintered and maintaining the status quo. > No, that is the core of inefficiency in a democracy. It would still not cause it to fall apart. However, if we look at how democracies were overcome in the past by totalitarian groups in the past, we see that it was often done through a legal election, with the public decieved through various manners of anti-democratic education - be it Mussolini or Hitler, dictators would rather take power from the people, and simply not give it back when they're supposed to. The only way we can defend ourselves from this is through restricting what we allow to be said about people, especially so when it comes to prejudicial lies. > The fact that there is always the inherent hope in a democracy that it can > be changed from within (inside pressure if you prefer) is the biggest > attribute of > that type of government. > True. I never claimed the opposite. I do not wish to restrict the flexibility that makes democracy the great thing that it is, I merely suggest that as long as we have this flexibility, we must be on the lookout for those who would use it against us. As greater men then I have said - the price of freedom is vigilence. > It seems to me that your late P.M. was trying to utilize this aspect of > democratic rule to make changes from within when the opposite of a neo-nazi > used decidedly undemocratic methods in an attempt to prevent change from > taking place... > Fanatics may be found practically anywhere. They have a tendency to be very efficient in persuading others of their 'just causes', especially those more naive and sensitive, because they turn not to the logic, but to the emotions, pulling your strings one by one to see what happens, using you for their purposes, only to allow you to discover, at too late a time, what has been going on behind the scenes. > > > We must therefor defend ourselves against > >these enemies of our freedom, even at the cost of some of their, and even > >our, freedom. > > Perhaps you could explain how a defense based on limiting _our_ freedom so > _they_ can't limit it would preserve the average democracy rather than > diminish it? > Society is based on the concept that while in nature man is free to do what he pleases, he is willing to give up some of his rights, his freedoms, so that he would have protection from others - for example, men have given up the right to kill other men indesciminately, for the right to know that no one else in their group would kill them either. This is the very basis of any culture, though the specific rights given up, and the form of protection recieved in exchange, vary from culture to culture. When the internet came to exist, the people who set it up said 'we are willing to give up our supervision of this thing we have created, in order for people to feel free to talk about whatever they want there'. It turned out that was a right decision. In the case brought before us, we are asked to decide - do we allow a group that stands against everything we work for as a society and as a culture to join our society, to become part of our culture? Do we keep the same level of freedom of speech and stay vulnerable to something that poses a great threat to that very right, or do we restrict the right of speech, not only theirs, but ours too, in order to protect our right of speech? I vote for the latter. > > > Living in a democracy doesn't mean you're free to do what > >you want, it means you are free to do what you want _so long as it doesn't > >hurt anyone_. This means that noone has the right to say the things these > >fiends say about me, or about anyone else, just because I'm Jewish, or > >they're black, or yellow, or red, or pink,or even purple with green > >spots. > > > > Actually,in the democracy I live in,I have the right to call you pretty > much anything I desire regardless of whether it hurts your feelings or > not.(That may not be true where you live.) I can't call you on thephone to > do it,but if you call me I can. I can't come to your house to do it,but if > you come to mine I could. If I choose to insult you in public I have that right. > There may be repercussions from this excercise of free speech,like getting > the sh*tkicked out of me,nobody buying my albums,not being very well > liked,etc. but that is another story... > If you go out to the street, and start saying that I'm a no good %#$$%&^%, I am technically able to sue you for slander. I may not have a very strong case, as the judge would feel that I am abusing my rights, or being petty, but, should he choose to work with the law, you would be found guilty, and be punished in one way or another, insignificant as it may be (say, you'll have to pay me 1$ to make up for the damage you've done to my reputation). > > For the record,I voted no on that newsgroup about 8 months ago...rec.music > didn't seem to be an appropriate place for it. Maybe alt.trashcan... > > all IMHO & Aloha- > David > IMHO? 42, Tuff - the ILi EDA ------------------------------ From: "Gerald J. Cho" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:03:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: Vinyl POY? Anyone know if POY was ever released in vinyl format? Any help is appreciated. Gerald ------------------------------ From: Reggev Michael Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:21:34 +0200 (IST) Subject: Re: NJC: Freedom of choice Larry, You can show people the truth, but as you have mentioned, you can't make them believe it. After all, it is much more pleasent to blame others for your problems. Now consider the average, not-so-bright, out-of-a-job person, and give him the choice of two discussion groups - one that says: your situation is caused by you, come join us and we'll help you sort your life out, get a job and settle into a boring rutine, and another that says: it's not your fault - the Yellow gave the job to the Black because those are the orders of the Jew! come join us, together we can beat the sh*t out of them. Which group do you think he'll go for? Believe it or not, chances are he'll go to group II, even though they're lying and the first are telling the truth. As for your second point - not true! the Nazis didn't gain their power through their discussions being banned - they gained it through spreading shameless lies, telling people what they wanted, giving children a candy if they joined the Hitler Youth, and a kick to the head if they were Jewish, and winning the German elections democractically first, and only once in power did they use an election system where if you didn't vote the way you're supposed to you'd probably get a bullet through your skull. 42, Tuff - the ILi EDA On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 GraywolfLA@aol.com wrote: > hey, Bradley: > I agree with you! You can't shut peole up, but you CAN show them the truth > (even though you can't *make* them believe it). But banning discussion is > what will make wrong ideas flourish; THAT's how the not-sees got their power > to begin with. > Later, > Larry > ------------------------------ From: Reggev Michael Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:41:37 +0200 (IST) Subject: NJC - Michaels I'm trying to count the Michaels on the list, so if your name is Michael, write me a blank letter off the list, with the subject line saying "I'm Michael lastname" (lastname signifying the room where you put your last name, so none of you write the word 'lastname' there :-)). Thanks, 42, Michael Reggev aka Tuff - the ILi EDA ------------------------------ From: Thirza Pearl Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 03:47:51 +0100 Subject: Jewel I think jewel is the most profound singer of our generation. She is a great role model for the country's youth. She niether smokes, Drinks or does drugs of any kind. She has great depth for someone her age. She seems to glow from within. I love the way she stops right in the middle of something to tell a funny story. I hope she never loses the ability to do that, Because some performers become bored with there own fame, and that is the worst thing that could happen to someone. So I just hope that Jewel lasts for a long long time. I love ya jewel, Thirza Pearl ------------------------------ From: Thirza Pearl Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:14:17 +0100 Subject: Jewel Right now it is 7:58 am and I havent slept a wink all night, I have been up thinking all night(I do this often) I notice that I have the best thoughts in the middle of the night. I just sittin the middle of my living room with a jewel tape playing in the backround. and this night in particular i realized that every thing that jewel was saying made sense. and I though "why cant everyone be as open as her?" She says exactly what she is thinking when she is thinking it. She doesnt wait until she is done with one thought to blurt out another. That is the way everyone should be. She does nt care what people think or say, because she is at peace with herself and thats all that matters in this world. My only wish is that I will be able to express my self as beautifully as her one day. But right now i am still trying to develope my own personality. Thirza pearl 14 ------------------------------ From: surfrank@metrolink.net (SURFRANK) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:29:04 -0500 Subject: I'm back ":) Hello everybody. To those of you who been trying to e-mail me for the past week my Internet server went out of business. Therefore I am with a new company with a new Email address. Now can someone please fill me in on Radiofest dates and location if I missed them. ------------------------------ From: GraywolfLA@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:18:48 -0500 Subject: NJC: Rugburns in Escondido Hey: So. Calif. angels, please be alert that the Rugburns are performing at the Belly Up in Escondido (near San Diego) on November 22 (the ad says "and guests"). This would be a perfect EDA mini-gathering (like on the head of a pin?). Tickets are goin' fast; call 619-481-8140. Hope to meet y'all. p.s. Leah Andreone at the Belly Up on 11/14 (I THINK that's the right date). Well worth it. p.p.s. WELCOME HOME JEWEL!!!! ------------------------------ From: Tegan Godwin Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 22:43:45 -0400 Subject: Re: couple things The only one worth seeing is Jewel. Other stuff is to Alternative or Loud. You don't talk too much either. Atleast someone speaks :) Kerry will get this. ------------------------------ From: Your Name Here Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 10:40:47 -0800 Subject: (no subject) I love Jewel and think all that you fine people have put into such a great woman is outstanding! I listen to her all the time along with the Cranberries, and Joan Osbourne. I play the guitar and was sad to find out I can't link to AOL because they have Jewel Guitar tabs. Well keep up the great work and know we are out here too!!!!!!! Tracy Johnson ------------------------------ From: the emperor of smurfs Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:36:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: JEWEL NEWS: MISC: ***LEAF SIGN UP IS PARTIALLY CLOSED*** Hi Angels! leaf sign up is now closed for U.S. residents for the 3/28/96 tape tree. However, there are still at least 7 international spots available and at least 5 Canadian spots available. any U.S. leaf responses received after this post will not be honored unless a previously confirmed leaf should cancel. i will notify each branch who their leafs are. the branches will in turn contact the leafs with specifics. if you have any more questions please contact me :) peace, dave *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* Dave DiCicco peaches@dmapub.dma.org "Innocence Maintained" is a moderated, news only email list providing its subscribers with timely information about Jewel Kilcher. If you would like to learn more about subscribing to IM or you have a news item to contribute, please email me. *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* ------------------------------ From: JACOBUS_JARED_G Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:58:20 -0500 Subject: radio stations (fwd) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:58:20 +0200 (IST) From: JACOBUS_JARED_G Subject: radio stations (fwd) To: Everyday Angels Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Two new stations we're mentioned on the list over the weekend for playing Jewel. So as usual I went ahead and got there phone numbers. I'm now doing this in the form of a forwarded message because I can no longer access my lap top. Let me review some important parts of this for newbies. First of all the purpose of these posts in to encourage angels to call their local radio stations and request YWMFM in order to help Jewel get the airtime she deserves. It is important not to disclose ourselves as EDAs or fans of Jewel in anyway. We are fans of music. We want to appear to the radio stations as a random sample of the general public so that they think that YWMFM is what the people want to hear. The reason I specify this is because a while back Mike suggested that we flood the VH1 webpage with requests for YWMFM and more then half of us disclosed ourselves as EDAs. People are going to take that real seriously(sarcastically). Please help our friend get the airtime she deserves to continue to live her dream. Atlanta: WNNX:(404)741-0997 WSTR:(404)741-9400 Baltimore: WGRX:(410)481-3764 Boston: WBCN:(617)536-8000 WBMX:(617)931-1234 WBOS:(617)931-1111 Buffalo: WMJQ:(716)644-9102 Charlotte: WEND:(704)570-1065 South Colorado: KKMG:(719)596-2442 The Peak:(719)473-7325 KVUU:(719)576-5888 Detroit: WHYT:(313)298-6600 89X:(313)298-7999 Fargo, North Dakota: 95X:(701)235-9999 Hartford: WKSS:(860)247-9570 Houston: KRB:(713)266-1000 KHMX:(713)390-5965 Ithica: WICB:(607)274-3217 Indianappolis: WTTS:1-800-923-9887 Las Vegas: LEDG:(702)798-1035 Los Angeles: KYSR:1-800-782-7987 Y107:(888)999-9107 KSCA:(213)845-1600 Miami: WHTI:(954)550-9100 WZTA:(800)749-9490 Nashville: WRLT:(615)737-0100 WRLG:(615)737-9400 New York: WHTZ:1-800-242-0100 WPLJ:(800)321-9755 MIX105:(212)704-1051 Orlando: WJPR:(800)606-1011 SHE:(888)660-1003 WXXL:1-800-780-1067 Philadelphia: Y100:1-800-232-1003 WDRE:(215)884-0373 Phoenix: KZZP:(602)260-1047 Pittsburgh: WSHH:(412)531-9500 Rochester: WMAX:(716)222-1067 WNVE:(716)222-6378 WPXY:(716)222-9800 Sacramento: KYMX:(916)441-5282 San Diego: KUPR:(619)729-5945 Seattle: KTOZ:1-800-417-1047 Trenton: WPST:(609)896-0975 Washington: WWDC:1-800-333-2101 WHFS:1-800-321-9437 SuPeRdEfOrMeD aNgEl ------------------------------ From: Antichrist Superstar Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:05:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: NJC: For Christ's Sake, listen to other things I have been a member of this list since April I guess. I went to Jewelstock and I have seen her 3 times total. I read all of the emails that come through on the list and something bothers me. Jewel, DeFranco, Cranberries, Tori Amos etc... First of all, what is with the ignorance of any band with a male singer except for bands that are some way connected with Jewel (Duncan Sheik, Rugburns...) Also, I just read an email talking about bands being "too" alternative or loud. Are we all 50 years old here? It seems most of you have fallen into a musical rut from what I have seen. - --Xkin "There's no time to discriminate, hate every motherfucker that's in your way." - --Marilyn Manson "Before you point your finger you should know that I'm the man." - --Tool ------------------------------ From: "(:spyflower:)" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:18:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: NJC: SURVEY: Send in your responses. ;) (last call) Hi guys, after this I'll prolly send in the results.. not that many responses, but hey, that's okay :) *sniff* > E-mail your responses to me at: sarahec@freenet.tlh.fl.us > survey's been changed a bit (two new questiosn and extending the date > again for the other question) from 11 4/5: > 1. how old are you/whats your sign? (include both :) > 2. are you left handed, right handed or ambidextrous? (thanks tuff ;) > 3. What do you like most about the eda list/eda's themselves? > (please answer this! it doesn't have to be some long or really deep > thing - "the people are nice" or even "i like getting the tapes" would > be fine. :) THanKS! :) Sarah ------------------------------ From: "James H. Judd" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:21:35 -0600 Subject: Re: NJC: For Christ's Sake, listen to other things First of all, what is with the ignorance of - - any band with a male singer except for bands that are some way connected - - with Jewel (Duncan Sheik, Rugburns...) Also, I just read an email talking I like to listen to Neal Diamond sometimes. Really. But more to your question, it's natural to talk about things that people hold common. I'm sure there are people who like MM and Tool here, since everyone has their musical interests outside of Jewel. It's just that Jewel and Jewelesque bands are the ones most interesting to the majority of the list that's all, so it's polite to talk about them. Tori, nin, and the J-girl are my big 3, not to start a thread or anything. James, who is still buzzed (as Helen would say) from this girl he went out with again this weekend ------------------------------ From: Raymond Wong Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:18:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: NJC: Freedom of choice *sigh* It seems lately as if I'm only responding to the NJC, but I can remain silent on this issue no longer. My apologies to the many EDAs who are no doubt weary of this discussion. Reggev Michael wrote: > You can show people the truth, but as you have mentioned, you can't make > them believe it. Yes, but by concealing the words of others, we can give them only the choice of our "truth," thus ensuring they won't disagree? Sorry, I don't buy it. A failure to expose people to an alternate set of assumptions simply leaves them unequipped to deal with them. > After all, it is much more pleasent to blame others for your problems. False premise, and one that doesn't really serve any use, so I'll ignore it for now. > Now consider the average, not-so-bright, out-of-a-job > person, and give him the choice of two discussion groups - one that > says: your situation is caused by you, come join us and we'll help you > sort your life out, get a job and settle into a boring rutine, and another Okay, so in group I, I have to accept what you say (join you), which evidently includes a fundamental assumption that my entire life is based on incorrect thinking, regardless of other circumstances. Further, we have already determined that we're not going to bother trying to find something challenging enough to be interesting, but instead will make the promise of everying being in a job that probably exists only to guarantee employment? Mind the assumptions you make. They show your own biases. > that says: it's not your fault - the Yellow gave the job to the Black > because those are the orders of the Jew! come join us, together we can > beat the sh*t out of them. Which group do you think he'll go for? Believe > it or not, chances are he'll go to group II, even though they're lying and Nice strawman setup for the white supremacists. Unfortunately, they're not all that stupid. If they were, would it matter? It's not those who openly admit that level of hatred that are the danger, for if they were, it would be easy to fight them. On those terms, they can't win. Simply, there are more of us, than of them. The real danger are those who conceal that hatred under false agendas of helpful peace. > the first are telling the truth. As for your second point - not true! the > Nazis didn't gain their power through their discussions being banned - > they gained it through spreading shameless lies, telling people what they > wanted, giving children a candy if they joined the Hitler Youth, and a > kick to the head if they were Jewish, and winning the German elections > democractically first, and only once in power did they use an election > system where if you didn't vote the way you're supposed to you'd probably > get a bullet through your skull. Congratulations, you just proved the falsehood of your own argument. a bit at a time: > kick to the head if they were Jewish, and winning the German elections > democractically first, Okay, so start off in an open system. Just like we have if the neo-nazis are allowed to speak, and lose an election on their own terms. >and only once in power did they use an election > system where if you didn't vote the way you're supposed to you'd probably > get a bullet through your skull. translation: Now that we're in power, we can't risk other ways of thinking, so we must ban the unright way of thinking. our way is the TRUTH, so there is no need for others. THIS is why hate speech can't be banned. If you are right, and more people are foolish enough to be swayed by hate so easily, then we will die anyway, for we're outnumbered by such a vast majority that we can't oppose. A community of Jews held off the Nazi army with 12 handguns. Now you want to tell me the neo-nazis are so powerful we need to protect the world from them, to the extent of sacrificing rights to save these rights? I hear the words, "never forget," but the lesson has been forgotten already, then. We MUST maintain our own ability to speak and fight back, against ALL enemies. To accept a limitation on speech only gives them a weapon against us, should they ever gain power with their lies. I am glad the newsgroup failed, but never mistake that as approval of censorship. I am glad, because the vote proved you are wrong. Only 100 or so people voted yes. People ARE smart enough to recognize lies. The worst enemy is the one that makes you defeat yourself, but they are not that enemy. Let's not become our own enemies. Ray Wong PO BOX 6163 negativl@netcom.com, negativl@best.com Hayward, CA 94540-6163 Member #11537, Deborah Gibson International Fan Club Co-Founder and Charter Member, Sutton Foster International Fan Club ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V1 #753 ***************************