From: owner-jewel-digest To: jewel-digest@smoe.org Subject: jewel-digest V1 #104 Reply-To: jewel@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-jewel-digest Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "jewel-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. jewel-digest Wednesday, 27 March 1996 Volume 01 : Number 104 Today's Subjects: ----------------- To: jewel@smoe.org the white power list Who is Bob Dylan? jewl/joan osbourne favorite newsgroups Amherst Show dylan in mass. Re: joan osborne's career over? Re: dylan in mass. Re: Jewel on pollstar on-line(long) Re: jewel-digest V1 #101 re: Other commendable artists re: Rush Jewel Expoitation#2 Re: Jewel on pollstar on-line(long) Jewel's future Re: Jewel's future So called "Selling Out" and Exploitation Re: So called "Selling Out" and Exploitation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leave the shadows dancing Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 01:08:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: To: jewel@smoe.org Hi everyone!! I recently joined this mailing list after finding the wonderfully done Jewel Home Page on the web. Last month I heard ONE song from Jewel on the radio and just HAD to buy the CD. Now that I have it, she is one of my favorite singers (shortest time it's ever took for me too!). In any case, I saw the list of the concert dates and noticed that there is one in Buffalo, NY. I go to school at Rochester Institute of Technology in Rochester, NY and was wondering if anyone would be interested in going to the May 11th date in Buffalo. I may be able to get transportation, but it's looking slim right now altho it's easier cuz it's a Saturday. In any case, I'd be willing to pitch in for gas/etc if anyone can provide a ride. I am clueless tho, who is Bob Dylan? I know I'm ignorant, but hey.. :> What kind of music does he do? P.S. I taped the VH1 Special at SP, so if anyone wants a copy, just let me know Gerrit - -- Stan - "I want to be a woman. From now on I want you all to call me Loretta." - Monty Python, Life of Brian ------------------------------ From: Jacob Richard Hirsch Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 02:00:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: the white power list since someone asked... I read this on the Tori List: "see, the thing is.. soc. rec. news. talk. and one i'm forgetting are the Big Five (or big Seven in which case i'm forgetting even more.) in order to get your group put on, it has to be voted on by i think sixty percent of over 300 people and approved by six or seven site admins. alt however, stands for Alternative and there Aren't those sorts of rules. you just have to have the proper equipment and then each site decides whether it wants to pick up alt. so No, i still Really don't think it's censorship. it's basically just like a library deciding whether it wants to have a book in its library.. it's not saying "no, we won't publish this book, Anyone can get it, we just don't think it's appropriate." and in my mind it's not censorship. that is why there's a vote, netusers are deciding if They want it there. if they don't, then it can go to alt where there really aren't any regulations. see that's the thing, the Big (whatever number) have those regulations to sort of keep a bit of so-called decency. alt has no regulations and that means some good things and some bad things. but i Still don't think it's censorship at all." Anyway that's what i was trying to say yesterday but i didn't have all the info. She does. now back to the discussion of Joan Osborne Jake - -- New address jrh4v@faraday.clas.virginia.edu ------------------------------ From: Chopped Liver Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 00:16:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: Who is Bob Dylan? On Wed, 27 Mar 1996, Leave the shadows dancing wrote: > Hi everyone!! > > I am clueless tho, who is Bob Dylan? I know I'm ignorant, but hey.. :> > What kind of music does he do? > > Gerrit > I'm not sure I'm worthy enough to answer this. Bob Dylan (Robert Zimmerman) started much like Jewel, singing in coffee shops with an acoustic guitar (and harmonica). This was over thirty years ago, and he became the defacto poet laureate of the era. When folk music's popularity started to fade, he combined rock & roll with his quirky musical style, cryptic lyrics and unusual voice to produce standards of the day which influence singers and writers still. 'Highway 61', 'Blowin in the Wind' and 'Like a Rolling Stone' (covered recently by The Rolling Stones) became anthems to many of us who grew up in the 60's. Bob Dylan is simply a legend. He's had his setbacks over the years, but the genius is still there. Why do I feel like I've just been to church? Chopped Liver (Charlie) watkins@selway.umt.edu ------------------------------ From: 5858@connectnet.com (jeff F) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 23:27:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: jewl/joan osbourne a reply to ben's rantings: ben, i realize you are only 17 and the realities of life have not hit you full on. i am sure you probably know jewel was living in a van for a couple of years from age 16-19 or so. she really didnt have a lot of choices at the time. she was offered a chance to live a reasonable life. contrary to popular belief, jewel's deal was not all that lucrative. i admit that i am bummed she is out touring the country because this means that i cant see her every week at the innerchange or more recently the wiki-up for $5 (for a 2-3 hour show). but if she did not have this deal, we would not be discussing her every night on the net. you probably would never have heard of her and you would have some other local sensation to talk about. an example, jewel's friends the rugburns spent 10-12 years playing bars in san diego before signing to priority. they had 9-5 jobs (heck, the guitarist is a teacher) but to be totally comitted to their music, they had to quit those jobs so they could tour. that is not an easy thing to do without some kind of financial backing as you will find out all to soon. like it or not, the only way for us to really hear new music if for people to give up something to bring it to us. very few bands are able to retain creative control because very few bands have the power to demand that. hell buddy, there are thousands of other bands they can sign instead of you. that may not be right but its the way it is. hope this doesnt spoil your day. jeff ------------------------------ From: Andrew Martin Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 02:22:51 (-0800) Subject: favorite newsgroups PAUL KYUSAM KIM wrote about the prodigal returns (huh? where is he? oh, I'm talking about , myself): > Hey...in this week's Newsweek, they ask for people to send in the names > of their favorite newsgroups and they'll publish the best ones; so let's > all tell them that this is the best nesgroup ok kiddies? Then we'll > become famous and rich and powerful and rule the world and...damn, those > delusions of grandeur, always mucking around in my head. but anyways. > the address is; cscope@newsweek.com Write to them! This is a mailing list, not a newsgroup. ------------------------------ From: "Ken Winchenbach" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:13:43 +0000 Subject: Amherst Show Does anyone have absolute knowledge about a Dylan/Jewel show at UMass in Amherst. We've had reports from Hiranya of one, but the Dylan concert web page that someone listed shows him playing in Springfield on that night. That's a big difference because it's a change from general admission to a symphony hall. If anyone can state for sure that they're both playing, and details on ticket sales I'd appreciate it. ---------K e n---------- <> walden@bluefin.net http://www.bluefin.net/~wink "You must live as you think, or sooner or later you will think as you live." ------------------------------ From: Steve Melisi Date: 27 Mar 1996 09:58:02 -0500 Subject: dylan in mass. Totally confirmed is Bob Dylan and Jewel at this locale: April 16, 1996 Springfield, Massachusetts Symphony Hall 2611 seats Ticket prices: $33.50, 28.50, 23.50 Tickets on sale through Ticketmaster starting on Saturday, March 30th at 10 AM Ticketmaster phone number: 413-733-2500 Tickets also on sale through the box office starting on Saturday, March 30th at 10 AM Box office phone number: 413-787-6600 According to the box office, concert time is 8:00 p.m. Very cool, I must say. - -steve m ------------------------------ From: Don Quixote Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:45:28 -0600 Subject: Re: joan osborne's career over? just to add in my own two cents on this... i almost didnt buy Relish because i hated the song One of Us, just my preference, its no thing if you like it, just telling it like it is... anyways, i LOVE the album, the music is some of my favorite, especially St. Teresa... shes got a lifetime (probably) fan in me, i love her style, her lyrics are truly not my style, but she has so much attitude, it makes up for it and shes soo funny, i.e. Right hand man... and the song Spider Web is absolutely awesome! just thought id share with you all, Henry "I don't know sire, I only knew that you were thirsty." -from The Fisher King "Might as well smile" -Jewel (Kilcher) Fellow Imperfection, Arthur J. Henry Moen ajmoen@acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu ------------------------------ From: PAUL KYUSAM KIM Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 11:51:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: dylan in mass. noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I just got this message along with a message from a friend at UMass telling me that the show is in Springfield. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh My friend at UMass said that they were all set to have Dylan April 11th but the advisor person who had to ok it was on vacation and the substitute advisor nixed the show. so it moved to Springfield. Damn them all to hell. Fraggin' piece of doo doo. On a lighter and happier note: A natural Now back to a darker note: F sharp I do believe that Joan Osborne has been doing the club/coffeehouse thing for quite a while in NY and extablished a fan base. She released an album or two and eps on her own label before going to...what is it? Mercury Records? And I don't know if One of Us was the first single. I remember hearing St. Theresa on WXPN (they also played a whole bunch a other cuts from the album. They tend to do that, which I like. Not just playing one single from an album) and on WRNR (a Baltimore station) late spring/early summer last year. I don't think that she will be a flash in the pan. She will still have those people who follow her much as there are those who follow a certain singer named Jewel. And how about them New Kids on the Block, eh? Still rocking my world:) I wanna know about the Wizard of Oz in Concert! Actually, I already know about it, I just wanna know when it will be released on CD. Paul "patience. In time, you will call me master" Kim ------------------------------ From: TJtalken@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 12:17:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Jewel on pollstar on-line(long) this was a wonderful tribute to Jewel and what's she's about... if only the rest of the media could write something so touching. she deserves this kind of coverage.... just my thoughts duff ------------------------------ From: TJtalken@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 12:16:44 -0500 Subject: Re: jewel-digest V1 #101 Candra- i agree with you not wanting to overexpose. but i don't think that it's fair if we just keep Miss Jewel all to ourselves, i think we have to keep in mind her goals, if she wants to be come a star- or rich and famous- then as fans our job is to help her. i support her desisions and i think that many more out there could profit internally from listening to her music... if only they would stop talking during the concert and open their ears to what is important and real. i trust Miss Jewel to do what she believes is right... and i just can't get over the joy of being a part of helping her succeed. I got a rush of adrenaline from seeing her on MTV or playing on my local radio station. i believe in her, and she will do well... i don't think her immediate support will let her sell out to the producers. we would all be proud if she made it main stream. just my thought duff ------------------------------ From: Derek Mok <4dm@qlink.queensu.ca> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 13:40:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: re: Other commendable artists > Don't forget to try Sarah McLachlan(My personal fav) She doesn't really need to be recommended, does she, since she's already earned her success. I don't like her very much but I can see she's talented and deserves to be recognized in her own way. Tanky. ------------------------------ From: Derek Mok <4dm@qlink.queensu.ca> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 13:42:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: re: Rush > Since I can forsee a barrage of Rush hate-mail to come in the next few days, > let me just cast my vote in favor of this one. Love 'em or hate 'em, > there's no denying that Rush are perfectionists when it comes to their > production sound Some of the best musicians ever. Geddy Lee isn't much of a singer but Jewel can't claim to be a better player than Alex Lifeson. Rush's musical finesse can't be denied, whether you like its songs and singer or not. I still hold that Peter Collins is quite a bold (inappropriate?????) choice of producer for Jewel. But hey, maybe I'll be proven wrong -- in a good way. Tanky. ------------------------------ From: Nannette Mickle Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 21:01:12 -0800 Subject: Jewel Expoitation#2 Hi People, Okay, looks like I started quite the uproar. First, Adam from io@indy.net, no offense taken. I appreciate your concern for my feelings though, that was nice. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I appreciate all the varying responses. (Please forgive, there were so many responses I forgot exactly who said what...) The person who used Tracy Chatman (I'm gonna get slammed if I spelled her name wrong) as an example: She is a PERFECT example of what I was saying about Joan. Tracy IS very talented, had a GREAT record, but the almightly music industry got ahold of the "Fast Car" song and that was the LAST the general public has heard from her in YEARS. She was completely exploited. I do not doubt your dedication as a true fan, or that of the rest of the folks that supported her from the beginning, but obviously the huge success of her one hit ruined her for major publicity in the future. Actually I think it was very smart of Tracy to stay out of the public eye for this length of time (whether or not that was by choice is questionable?? but it may give her another chance for a comeback.) As for Joan Osbourne, yes she now has "Right Hand Man" out, which I agree is a good song, but it will NOT achieve the fame "One Of Us" did and she will always face the fact that she got famous from a song that wasn't even her own. She obviously has talent and I feel it is a shame that she opted to burn the brightest because like they say, the brighter you burn the faster the flame dies out. I do not doubt she will come out with another album, but I'd bet bucks that is will not do near as good as her current one. We've seen time and time again "One Hitters" (Hell, exactly what was the entire 80's decade?? ;) Before I get slammed for that: KIDDING people!!) And my only point was that I am very protective of Jewel and her music and I do not want to see her exploited. I think that is a sign of a true fan. If she gets exploited, of course I am a true fan and will stick by her, but if she CHOOSES to sell out, I will lose a lot of respect. As an example of someone who, in my eyes, did not sell out, Melissa Etheridge. She had 3 albulms before her success with "Yes I Am", her albulm from '94. She played clubs for years and years and built up a following. And even with her success, she didn't sell out. It was always HER hard work and HER writing the music. It took her years and years to build this foundation and now it is paying off for her. I know Jewel mentioned this same example in her interview over the weekend during VH1'S LiftTicket To Ride. She said she wants slow and steady building of a foundation to success, much like Melissa. Jewel is smart and I was glad to hear her say that. I also wanted to say that I don't think many artists are aware of exactly how much exploitation can ruin them. I think they are victims, to a certain extent. They may not even be aware that they are selling their souls by signing on the bottom line. So maybe "selling out" is only particially the artist's fault. Okay, I've talked enough. Hope I didn't put y'all to sleep. See ya, Candra "I could not take just one day knowing I would not ever touch you, hold you, fell you in my arms... Never again..." Eddie Vedder ------------------------------ From: Chopped Liver Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 12:02:04 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Jewel on pollstar on-line(long) On Wed, 27 Mar 1996 TJtalken@aol.com wrote: > > > > this was a wonderful tribute to Jewel and what's she's about... if only the > rest of the media could write something so touching. she deserves this kind > of coverage.... > just my thoughts > duff Total agreement. This should also help those of us who have a tendancy to get all parental about Jewel. Me included. She's obviously no babe-in-the-woods, and she's got loving people around her that have her best interests at heart. Now, if they'd just quit putting so much vaseline on her lips in those videos... Chopped Liver (Charlie) watkins@selway.umt.edu ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 11:21:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Jewel's future Well, so far Jewel has been very careful to avoid the one-hit wonder syndrome. People have complained that she didn't put any of her funny songs or her "Chime Bells Ring" with her yodeling on _Pieces of You_ but that was a conscious decision not to be known as "the girl who yodeled" or "the girl with that funny song about god's gift to women" or "the race car driver" or whatever, even though they're some of our favourite things she does. Jewel is perfectly capable of wowing the market with one of those songs, but she hasn't. She's make very careful choices about what she does and where she appears, and is slowly working to build up her fan base and her credibility. I'm not sure Jewel would say she wants to be a "star" but I'm certain she wants to be able to continue to produce the best music she can and to share it as much as possible. I think we can trust her not to mess it up--at least as much as that is in her control. Tracy Chapman is a wonderful singer, but as a songwriter I don't think she's written anything else with the subtlety and depth of "Fast Car"--the rest of her lyrics tend to be didactic and don't have much power for me. So even though I like her, I don't have much enthusiasm for her current work, so her lower profile since that song makes sense for me. Some people would say that Tori has never been anything because she's never had a hit song, but look how strong her following is and how it's still growing. It's hard to predict someone's career and what will be a "hit" and what won't. Meanwhile, I'm just watching and enjoying Jewel's music and wishing her the breaks that will be best for her. I still think "Nicotine Love" is her most powerful song and would like it to be on the new album and think it would make a great single, though I understand her uncomfortable relationship with the song, too, and why it likely won't be on there. - --Neile ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 11:38:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Jewel's future Oops, I said: > Tracy Chapman is a wonderful singer, but as a songwriter I don't think > she's written anything else with the subtlety and depth of "Fast > Car"--the rest of her lyrics tend to be didactic and don't have much > power for me. So even though I like her, I don't have much enthusiasm for > her current work, so her lower profile since that song makes sense for me. I also think "Behind The Wall," the song Jewel sometimes covers, and "For My Lover" are great songs, but haven't heard anything on the three subsequent albums the equal of these to my ears. Jewel does an amazing version of "Behind the Wall"--as simple and powerful as Tracy Chapman's original. When I hear that song in my head now I sometimes hear Tracy Chapman's version and sometimes Jewel's. - --Neile ------------------------------ From: Dean Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 14:31:25 EST Subject: So called "Selling Out" and Exploitation I'm just a non-musically inclined person out here around Cincinnati, Ohio. I can't play a note and I don't think I can sing (although I've been told different). All this in mind, I decided to give my comments on this whole notion of "selling out" as it is called. First off... if Jewel had never signed with a major label I would most likely never have heard of her, or that damned amazing voice of hers. I mean when am I going to be in a coffee house in San Diego. Now about this notion that an artist looses all control over what the do once they sign with a label. I'm not nor do I know anyone in the business, but I doubt that this is true. Some of the most influential bands/singers are those that pushed the limits with something different and made it big doing just that. First there was Elvis. Most of the execs at the record companies didn't like him, but they knew the kids of the time did. So they let him have his freedom and he become one of the biggest musical money makers of all. In the 60's we had the Doors, The Beatles, and The Rolling Stones. All of these bands were quite different from each other... all of them pushed some envelope of the time. The thing is they sold records, therefore the execs let them have their space to do what they wanted. Ask Mick Jagger if his success was due to being exploited. I think you'll get a flat "hell no". Frankly I think those people who are "upset" that Jewel is now on a major label and is becoming the star she deserves to be are those that are somewhat pissed that they can no longer go to the San Diego coffee house, pay $5 and see her put on one of those 3 hour shows I hear about. Hey, you had her to yourselves for quite sometime. Let the rest of us have the privilege of hearing one of the best voices I've heard in a long damn time. Remember, I'd never have heard of her if she was still playing coffee houses in S.D. I've rambled on enough.... I think I'll listen to "I'm Sensitive" now. :) Dean "Waiting for Jewel's next album" Harris P.S. Did I mention how good her voice is? ------------------------------ From: teffta@crypt.erie.ge.com (Andrew R. Tefft) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 15:04:09 -0500 Subject: Re: So called "Selling Out" and Exploitation > Now about this notion that an artist loses all control over what the do > once they sign with a label. I'm not nor do I know anyone in the business, > but I doubt that this is true. This triggers a comparison. Debbie Gibson started out on Atlantic (no, don't say a word about Debbie Gibson music, that's not the point). They *were* pushing her musically in a direction she didn't want to go. Of course I had no inkling at the time and kind of liked the direction she was going. Regardless, it was not what she wanted to keep doing, so she changed labels. Her first album on SBK is quite different from her last Atlantic album. Luckily she *was* able to get out (her contract with Atlantic was fulfilled by a Greatest Hits album). Was she exploited? No. Did she sell out? No. Was she being pushed musically? Yep. Do we want this to happen to Jewel? I dunno. While the short term results can turn out well enough, I would rather she be happier than more popular (if it comes down to that). ------------------------------ End of jewel-digest V1 #104 ***************************