From owner-ilx@smoe.org Mon Oct 12 19:37:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id TAA00013 for ilx-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:37:39 -0400 (EDT) From: winkjr@teleport.com Message-Id: <199810122337.QAA10059@user2.teleport.com> Subject: ILx for 10/11/98 To: ilx@smoe.org (Indie-L Exchange) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:37:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ilx@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: owner-ilx@smoe.org X-To-Unsubscribe: Mail "ilx-request@smoe.org" with "unsubscribe" as body. Reply-To: Gregor Kessler Would a certain Tim Ossier from Canada please get in touch, I lost his address. thanks, Gregor Kessler ============================================================================= Reply-To: merjor@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Chris Ullsperger) Hey all. Here's a list of dupes and other records from my collection. Much of this stuff is in great shape, some a tad less than that. For most records, I'm interested in trades only. If you're interested in something, check out my want list (appended) and send me a list of stuff you have to trade. I'll give you deets on the stuff you're interested in, and we can work from there. *****SERIOUS MUSIC Darge, Moniek _Sounds of Sacred Places_ (Igloo) Tod Dockstader _Luna Park/Traveling Music/Apocalypse_ (Owl 6) Mimaroglu/Castiglioni/Boucourechliev/Brouwer _Idil Biret plays_ (Finnadar) Conlon Nancarrow _Complete Studies v. 2_ (Arch St.) Conlon Nancarrow _Complete Studies v. 3_ (Arch St.) Conlon Nancarrow _Complete Studeis v. 4_ (Arch St.) Harry Partch _And on the 7th Day Petals Fell in Petaluma_ (CRI) Harry Partch _Delusion of the Furies_ (boxset 2LP w/"Bonus" 12"; sealed; Columbia) Terry Riley _Persian Surgery Dervishes_ (2LP, Shandar) Terry Riley _Lifespan_ (soundtrack; StipRecord) Stockhausen _Telemusik/Mixtur_ (Deutsche Gram.) Stockhausen _Es und Aufwarts_ (Deutsche Gram.) Stockhausen _Spiral/Wach/Japan/Pole_ (2LP box w/booklet; EMI/Electrola) *****JAZZ Art Ensemble of Chicago _Great Black Music_ (2LP live '72; Delmark) Gato Barberi Quartet (ESP 1049) Lester Bowie _#1 & 2_ (Nessa) Coxhill/Boni/Horsthus _Chantenay 80_ (Nato) Frith and Cutler _Live in Prague and Washington_ (Recommended) Spontaneous Music Ensemble _1.2.Albert Ayler_ (Affinity) Heiner Stadler _Brains on Fire V1_ (Labor Records) Heiner Stadler _Brains on Fire v2_ (Labor Records) Sun Ra and His Arkestra _Live at Montreux_ (2LP; Inner City) Sun Ra _Fate in a Pleasant Mood_ (Impulse) Sun Ra _Heliocentric Worlds v.2_ (ESP) Vinko Globakar _5, die sich nicht ertragen konnen!_ (FMP 1180) Dudek/Niebergall/Vesala _Open_ (sealed; FMP 570) Oki/Pilz/Hubner _1 Year-Afternoon and Evening_ (sealed; FMP 720) Ernst-Ludwig Petrowsky _SelbDritt_ (sealed; FMP 890) Brotzman/Miller/Boholo _The Nearer the Bone, the Sweeter the Meat_ (sealed; FMP 690) Andreas Willers _Hier and Als Auch_ (sealed; solo guitar; FMP 880) ***** PUNK/INDIE Absolute Grey _What Remains_ (Midnight) Chills _PInk Frost_ (7"; Flying Nun) The Clean _Boodle Boodle Boodle_ (Flying Nun) Chris Knox _Toy Love_ (WEA) Crystallized Movements _Dog..Tree...Satellite Seers_ (2nd press; Forced Exposure) Earth s/t (2LP; SubPop) Ethereal Counterbalance II _Mellifluous Confluence_ (Sept. Gurls) Jad Fair _Everyone Knew...But Me_ (Press) Felt _Ballad of the Band_ (Creation) Felt _Let the Snakes Crinkle Their Heads to Death_ (Creation) The Flips _Less is More_ (Midnight) 1/2 Japanese _Charmed Life_ (50 skadillion watts) 1/2 Japanese _1/2 Gentlemen, Not Beasts_ (3LPw/all the goodies; Armageddon) 1/2 Japanese _Loud_ (Armageddon) 1/2 Japanese _See No Evil_ (Iridescence) Hood _Cable Linear Traction_ (orig. press; Fluff) Jandek _Follow Your Footsteps_ (sealed; Corwood 751) Jandek _On the Way_ (Corwood 755) Jandek _Somebody in the Snow_ (Corwood 757) Jandek _Lost Cause_ (Corwood 759) Luxurious Bags _Voluntary Lifelong Quarantine_ (Twisted Village) Lyres _A Promise is A Promise_ (Ace of Hearts) Lyres _Lyres Lyres_ (Ace of Hearts) The Mike Gunn _Durban Poison_ (Double Nought) Mudhoney _Superfuzz Bigmuff_ (blue vinyl; SubPop) Pole _LP1_ (2LP; Kiff) Pussy Galore _Right Now!_ (Caroline) The Real Kids s/t (Red Star) Refrigerator _Long 33 1/3 Play_ (18 Wheeler) Scientists _Blood Red River_ (Au Go Go) Sonic Boom: Spectrum (w/fancy cover; Silvertone) Spacemen3 _Perfect Prescription_ (Genius) Squirrel Bait _s/t_ (Homestead) Steaming Coils _Breaded_ (Aquaversal) Steaming Coils _Never Creak_ (Rotary Totem) Sun City Girls _s/t_ (Placebo) Sun City Girls _Grotto of Miracles_ (Placebo) Sun City Girls _Bright Surroundings_ (1st press; Majora) Sun Dial _Reflector_ (w/7"/UFO) Verlaines _10 o'clock in the Afternoon_ (Flying Nun) Vermonster _Spirit of YMA_ (Twisted Village) Wipers _Land of the Lost_ (Restless) v/a Doing it for the Kids (w/MBV track; Creation) v/a Take 5 (w/Dog Faced Hermans, Spacemen3; Shelter) *****ROCK:psych/hard/soft Tim Buckley _Lorca_ (Elektra) Crome Cyrcus _Love Cycle_ (ABC) Electric Prunes _Release of an Oath_ (Reprise) Faust _Faust Tapes_ (Virgin) Godz: Contact High (ESP) Gong _Est Mort/Viva Gong_ (2LP; Tapioca) Halfnelson s/t (Bearsville) Hampton Grease Band _Music to Eat_ (2LP; Columbia) Hard Stuff _Bolex Dementia_ (Purple Records) Incredible String Band _5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion_ (Elektra) Leaves _All the Good That's Happening_ (Capital) Magma _Live_ (2LP; Utopia) Mars Bonfire _Faster than the Speed of Light_ (Columbia) MC5 _High Time_ (French Atlantic) Pearls Before Swine _Balaklava_ (ESP) Pearls Before Swine _City of Gold_ (Reprise) Pink Fairies _Never Never Land_ (Polydor) Pink Fairies _What a Bunch of Sweeties_ (Polydor) Popol Vuh _Sei still, wisse ICH BIN_ (Innovative Communications) Release Music Orchestra _Life_ (good ol' Green Brain) Scorpions _Virgin Killer_ (nasty cover; RCA) Thirteenth Floor Elevators _Bull of the Woods_ (repress; Decal) Steve Tibbets _Yr_ (Frammis) Tomorrow s/t (repress; Import Records) v/a Alvin Lives (in Leeds) (w/Wedding Present, Popguns, Robyn Hitchcock; Midnight Music) *****SPOKEN WORD v/a 10+2:12 American Text Sound Pieces (Ashley/Cage/Gysin/Saroyam et al; Arch St.) Charles Bukowski _Hostage_ (Rhino) Kenneth Patchen _Fables_ (Green Tree) *****ARTY PROG-TYPE STUFF Acqua Fragile (Numero Uno) Alberto y Los Trios Paranoias _Italians from Outer Space_ (Transatlantic) Curlew s/t (Landslide) Dome _Will You Speak this Word_ (Uniton) Goodman/Kaiser/Rose _Construction of Ruins_ (Beak Doctor) Kalahari Surfers _Living in the Heart of the Beast_ (Recommended) Triana _Sombra y Luz_ (Movie Play/Gong) Zazou/Bikaye/Cy1 _Noir et Blanc_ (Crammed) ZNR _Barricade 3_ (w/Beefheart prints; Rec. Records) *****ETHNO/FOLK Seychelles 2 "Musiques oubliees "des Iles" (Ocura) SEALED FAHEY TAKOMA REISSUES Blind Joe Death V.1 Tranfiguration of Blind Joe Death *****SEVEN INCHES Lou Barlow _I Am Not Mocking You_ (SubPop) Dadamah _Nicotine_ (Majora) Dadamah _Scratch Sun_ (Majora) Even as We Speak _Nothing Ever Happens_ (Sarah 37) Flying Saucer Attack _Beach Red Lullaby_ (Planet) Flying Saucer Attack _Soaring High_ (purple vinyl; Vhf #9) Flying Saucer Attack _Psychic Driving_ (Domino) Guided By Voices _Fast Japanese Spin Cycle_ (Engine) Jessamine _Your Head is So Small_ (SubPop) Lorelei _The Bitter Air_ (Slumberland) Nothing Painted Blue _Swivelchair_ (KokoPop) The Renderers _Million Lights_ (Merge) Sebadoh _Asshole_ (2nd press; Vertical) Silkworm _Into the Woods_ (Rocka Mundo) Skullflower _Evil Twin_ (MH Records) Stereolab _Lo Boob Oscillatar_ (SubPop) Stereolab/Cat's Miaow (split flexi on Wurlitzer) Sun City Girls _Let's Just Lounge/Immortal Gods_ (Majora) Sun City Girls _Eye Mohini/Gum Arabic/Kal El_ (Majora) Sun City Girls _Three Fake Orgs_ (2x7; Majora) Sun City Girls _Never Alone w/Cig_ (Majora) Sun City Girls _Abydos/Borungku_ (2x7"; Majora) Sun City Girls _Bruce Lee, Heroin and the Punk Scene_ (3x7" box w/Frogs, Zipcode Rapists etc) Vibrators _Judy Says/Pure Mania_ (Epic) Terminals _Witchdoctors_ (Feel Good All Over/XPressway) World of Pooh _Stones of Judgement (Nuf Sed) Keiji Haino (Mg; Table of the Elements) KK Null (F; Table of the Elements) Davey Williams (C; Table of the Elements) ...also many back issues of Ptolemaic Terrascope w/7"s ******COMPACT DISCS Can _Canaxis_ (Spoon) $10 Charalambides _Historic Sixth Ward_ (Wholly Other) $10 Tony Conrad _Four Violins_ (4CD; Table of the Elements) $25 High Tide _The Flood_ (album outtakes; WorldWide) $10 Kron: Gold und Liebe (Harvest) $15 Loren Mazzacane _Hell's Kitchen Park_ (Black Label 001) $15 P16.D4 _Kuhe in 1/2 Trauer_ (Odd Size) $11 P16.D4 _Acrid Acme (of)_ (Selektion) $11 Sebadoh _Bakesale_ (promo copy; SubPop) $7 Spiritualized _Pure Phase_ (in luminescent box; Dedicated) $35 Masayuki Takayanagi _Call in Question_ (PSF) $12 Wabi Sabi _s/t_ (a-Musik) $10 *************************************** *************************************** WANT LIST (incomplete and probably plenty of mistakes. i appreciate any help/advice--but most of all *your* want lists). In general, i'm interested in all kinds of music, but especially experimental/electronic sounds, good guitar solos, european prog/chamber rock, and well-conceived compilations of 78 rpm recordings (any genre; e.g., EMI's Record of Singers). Absaq Maboul: 11 Dances to Cure the Migraine (Kamikazi or repress) Agitation Free: any original issues 'cept Malesch Albert Ayler: Love Cry (Impulse); V.2 (Shandar) AMM: on Mainstream; others Amon Duul2: Yeti (any UA original) Ash Ra Tempel: 1st LP (original); Starring Rosi (original) Avengers: s/t (CD Presents) Ayers, Kevin: Joy of a Toy, Shooting at the Moon, Odd Ditties (minor/cheap!) Bailey, Derek: 7" on Table of the Elements; other TOE 7"s Barrett, Syd: Barrett (EMI/Harvest) Battiato, Franco: 70s LPs Bayle, Francois: LPs on Inagram; others Bianchi, Maurizio: Symphonie for a Genocide (UK/B.Flag; Sterile) Big Star: Radio City (Ardent); 3rd/Sister Lovers (PVC) B.O.R.B.: Trailer Full of Smoke (Twisted Village) Bowles, Paul: (spoken word on Camus Records) Brooks, Terry /Strange: Translucent World (original issue) Brotzmann LPs (FMP) Earle Brown: on Mainstream, CBS, any Brown, Marion: on Impulse Bruhin, Anton: any vinyl (labels?) Buckley, Tim: Hello/Goodbye (Elektra); Blue Afternoon (Straight) Bukowski, Charles: any 'cept Reads His Poetry and Hostage Burroughs, W.: Call Me Burroughs (ESP); others John Cage: on Wergo; Three Dances (split w/Reich; Angel) Can: Tago Mago (either sleeve); Ege Bamyasi (German issues) Chrome: The Visitation (Siren); Blood on the Moon (Siren) Cluster: Sowiesoso (Sky) Conrad, Tony: Outside the Dream Syndicate (Caroline) Coxhill, Lol: Fleas in Custard (UK/Caroline) Coyle and Sharp: The Insane Minds of Coyle and Sharpe (Warner Bros.) Crackle: (SAJ-14) CroMagnon s/t (ESP) Crystalized Movements: Damaged Lights (Twisted Village) Dead C: DR503 (Flying Nun) Maurice Deebank (Felt): solo LP Dentists: LPs, particularly the first four Dog Faced Hermans: Everday Timebomb LP Dokstader, Tod: on Folkways; Apocalypse (Owl) Drake, Nick: Bryter Later; Time of No Reply Edge: Square One (Hurricane) Erickson, Roky: EP (Sponge); other 7"s John Fahey: Voice of the Turtle (Takoma); Requiem (Vanguard) Fall: Dragnet, Early Years, Totales Turns, Hex Induction Hour, Room To Live Farmer's Manual: s/t EP (Mego) Fat Mattress: s/t (Atco or Polydor) Faust; 10" w/La Cuisine (Fr/CRDC) Morton Feldman: on Time, Columbia, whatever Fennesz: Instrument (12"; Mego) F/i: Paradise Out Here (Ger; Human Records) Fred Bison V: s/t? (Woronzow) Fuzzface: EP? (Brother JT project;label??) Fushitsusha: s/t (2LP; PSF) Galbraith, Alistair: Morse LP (Siltbreeze); Tae Keening (7"; Roof Bolt) General Magic: Fridge Trax; Die Mondlandung (12"; Mego) Godz: 3rd Testament (ESP) Gong: You (Virgin); Camembert Electrique (BYG); Continental Circus Gottschling, Manuel: E2-E4 (label?) Half Japanese: Calling All Girls EP Harmonia: Music von Harmonia (Brain) Hazelwood, Lee: solo LPs (many) Heldon: Always Rock n Roll; Interface Help Yourself: s/t; Return of Ken Whaley Pierre Henry: on Phillips; others Hess, Felix: any cassettes Hollmer, Lars: Vendeltid (Swe; Ding Dong) Homosexuals: 7"s, EPs on Black Noise Horowitz, Richard: Oblique Sequences (Shandar) Hunter, Sonya: (LP on Heyday) Hyphen-Smythe: What Are the Stars: Bad Ass (TV Eye) Jandek: Corwood 741, 743, 745, 747, 748 Jayhawks: s/t (Bunkhouse) Kagel, Maurizio: Tactil; Staats Theatre; Atem (D. Gramm.) Kraftwerk: Computer World (German or Japan); Radioactivity (German w/stickers); Mensch Machine (German issue) Kubisch, Christina: any vinyl Lindblad, Rune: Predestination (Proprius) Lucier, Alvin: I Am Sitting in a Room (Lovely) MacGregor, Dion: He Talks in His Sleep (Decca) Mad River: s/t (Capitol) Magma: on Phillips Mahjun: Happy French Band (label?) Mandrake Memorial: Medium (Poppy); Puzzle Martirano, Salvatore: L's GA/Octect/Ballad (Polydor) Maxfield, Richard: Electronic Music (Advance) Loren Mazzacane/Guitar Roberts: LPs on St. Joan or Dagget MC5: Kick out the Jams (orig. issue) Melnyk, Lubomyr: Lund St. Petri Symphony (Apparition); others MEV: on Mainstream; elsewhere Merzbow: Baztouti etc. (RRR); others Mimaroglu, Ilhan: on Folkways, Finnadar MX-80: Hard Attack (Island) New Phonic Art/Iskra 1903/Wired: Free Improv Box (D. Gramm.) New Race: The First and the Last (Statik or any original) Nocturnal Emissions: Tissue of Lies (Sterile); Fruiting Body (Sterile) Nono, Luigi: on Phillips Oliver: s/t? (reissue) Original Sins: Party's Over (Bar None) Panasonic: EPs on Sahko Partch, Harry: Bewitched (CRI); LPs on Gate Five Pascal, Nik: LPs on Narco Patto: Hold Your Fire (British w/gatefold; Vertigo) Pearls Before Swine: 1 Nation Underground (stereo; ESP) Pink Fairies: Kings of Oblivion (w/poster; Polydor) Pomerance, Erica: (ESP) Popul Vuh: Fitzcarraldo OST; Affenstunde (Liberty) Radio Birdman: Burn My Eye EP (Trafalgar); Living Eyes (WEA) Reich, Steve: Four Organs (Shandar); split LP w/Cage "Three Dances" (EMI/Angel) Reichel, Hans: Bonobos, other LPs on FMP Renaldo and the Loaf: Olleh Olleh Rotcod (Rotcod) Riley, Terry: Reed Streams (Mass Arts); Germ/Riley (Actuel); Persian Surgery Dervishes (single LP version; Shandar); In C (Celestial Harmonies) Schnitzler, Conrad: Rot; Blaue; Schwarz (KS) Raben, Pere: any Fassbinder film soundtracks RST: Event Horizon LP; Acceleration Stations 10" (NZ; Geraldine) Rutman, Robert: 1939 (Pogus); Sounds of Nothing (AS) Rocket from the Tombs: Life Stinks LP+7" (Jack Slack) Ruins: any vinyl not on Shimmy or Public Bath Saints: Prehistoric Sounds (Harvest) Samlas Mammas Manna: 1st LP; other pre-Maltid titles (Silence) Say Yes to Apes: Who is That?; Decline and Fall of... (TV Eye) Scientist: several titles (Greensleeves) Sebadoh: Bubble and Scrape, w/7" (Domino) Seventh Sons _4 am at Frank's_ (ESP) Skooshny: 7"s (Alien; whatever) Skullflower: Birthdeath EP; Form Destroyer (Broken Flag) SLF: Inflammable Material (RT) Sperm: Shhhh (O-Records) Stinky Toys: (LPs on Polydor or Vogue except s/t first) Stockhausen: Prozession; Opus 1970; Aus Dem Seiben Tagen (Harmonia Mundi); Aus Dem Seiben Tagen box set (Deutsche G.) Stutzpunkt Wien 12: UFO Beobachtungen 93-95 (2x12"; Mego) Suicide: s/t (Red Star) Sun Ra: Nuits de La Fondation Maeght V. 1 (Shandar); others on ESP Supersister: the first two (Polydor/Dandelion in Europe) Thinking Fellers: Where's Officer Tuba (EP on ??) Twink: Think Pink (Sire) Vermonster: Instinctively Inhuman (Twisted Village) Igor Wakhevitch: Let's Start (EMI); others Patty Waters: College Tour (ESP) Michael Vetter: Overtones; Tambura Preludes; Zen Gong; Zen Koto (Wergo) Wipers: Youth of America (P.Ave or repress) Wreck Small Speakers: River Falling Love (Flying Nun) Xenakis, Iannis: Persepolis (Phillips); others LaMonte Young: (on Shandar) v/a - Atomic Cafe Soundtrack v/a - Inde du Nord: _Mithila/Chants d'amour_ ; others (Ocura) v/a - Musique Concrete (Phillips) v/a - Musique Concrete (Candide) v/a - Music in Ethiopia V.1: Central Highlands (Tangent Records) v/a - Music in Morocco (Library of Congress 2LP) v/a - Music in the World of Islam V. 2, 3, 4, 6 (Tangent Records) v/a - Music from the Shrines of Ajmer and Mundra v/a - Record of Singers (v2-4; EMI) v/a - Sound Sculptures (2LP; Wergo) v/a - Stars that Play with Dead Jimi's Dice (Twisted Village) Labels/categories I'm interested in: Actuel: many Crammed: many 70s, early 80s titles Cramps: many FMP: any pre-FMP 600, excluding piano, horn or drum solo. Any featuring Brotzmann or Reichel Imbalance: a few things on LP or CD Inagram: anything Kamikazi: anything Kaleidephone: anything with "Africa" in the title Mainstream: records in the new music series Narco: anything Ocura: many ethnographic recordings Phillips: any records in Prospective series/reflective covers Shandar: Ayler v. 2, Ragnar Grippe, a few others Silence: a bunch Soundtracks to Fassbinder films (Pere Raben, composer) Tangent: (see Music in the World of Islam, above) United Dairies and lest I forget: LPs of Insect/frog field recordings LPs of "natural" alpine yodeling (Talerschwingen) Some CDs I'm looking for: Buckley, Tim: Starsailor (on Rhino) F/i: Earthpipe (Onomatopoiea) Mad River: s/t (OneWay/Capitol) Chris merjor@uclink4.berkeley.edu From owner-ilx@smoe.org Mon Oct 19 17:43:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id RAA20692 for ilx-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:43:21 -0400 (EDT) From: winkjr@teleport.com Message-Id: <199810192135.OAA15554@user2.teleport.com> Subject: ILx for 10/18/98 To: ilx@smoe.org (Indie-L Exchange) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:35:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ilx@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: owner-ilx@smoe.org X-To-Unsubscribe: Mail "ilx-request@smoe.org" with "unsubscribe" as body. Reply-To: Douglas P Mosurak FS: Bastro _Sing the Troubled Beast_ LP I bought this recently by mistake, thinking it was _Diablo Guapo_ and never noticing until it arrived at my house that I had erred. Now I have 2, and want to get rid of one. The problem here is that I traded for this with a record I regret having gotten rid of, and which I doubt any of you would give me for this, but I'll eat crow and sell it to the highest bidder over $15, or do a straight trade for either _Diablo Guapo_ on LP, or Crain's _Speed_ LP. it's a Dutch pressing with a press release inside (in English). email me at with offers. thank you. From owner-ilx@smoe.org Thu Oct 22 13:30:27 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id NAA02542 for ilx-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:29:40 -0400 (EDT) From: winkjr@teleport.com Message-Id: <199810221656.JAA07963@user1.teleport.com> Subject: ADMIN: ILx off-the-road for two weeks To: ilx@smoe.org (Indie-L Exchange) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:56:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ilx@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: owner-ilx@smoe.org X-To-Unsubscribe: Mail "ilx-request@smoe.org" with "unsubscribe" as body. The ILx will be in the shop for a tuneup and new tires for the next two weekends, but will be back on the road by 11/8, if not sooner. Cheers, Wink -- winkjr@teleport.com