From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V11 #145 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, October 15 2009 Volume 11 : Number 145 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] The Fallen [Fergus Kelly ] Re: [idealcopy] I wormed my way into the heart of the crowd ["Bruno Cleme] Re: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) ["Bruno Clements" ] [idealcopy] Typical Girls [TnA ] Re: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) ["bSirius" Subject: [idealcopy] The Fallen Giluz said re The Fallen book: Certainly worth a read, especially for some hillarious Fall stories, but Simpson's attempt to describe his own personal crusade locating the Fallen is a seirous drawback, deriving mainly from the fact that he is such a boring person. His writing isn't much inspirational as well, and the book (like most music books) suffers from serious fandom attitude. ((( Spot on. But certainly worth a read despite that, as it is by turns hilarious and disturbing... Fergus New CDs out now ! http://www.roomtemperature.org http://www.asullenrelapse.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/ferguskellyrecordings http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/sets/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:17:55 +0100 From: "Bruno Clements" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] I wormed my way into the heart of the crowd Yes, enjoyed that and even got on my hd... HD looks alternately like a evil/benevolent pixie these days. Liked Seasick Steve as well, who was introduced to many in the UK on the Jools New Year's Eve show of a couple of years ago when he was even more rockin' form Bruno Subject: [idealcopy] I wormed my way into the heart of the crowd > Blimey, but Magazine were *on fire* on Jools Holland's show tonight, with > Shot By Both Sides sounding incredibly tight, fresh and urgent. Inspiring > stuff. Roll on Friday for a couple more ! > > Fergus > > > New CDs out now ! > > http://www.roomtemperature.org > http://www.asullenrelapse.blogspot.com > http://www.myspace.com/ferguskellyrecordings > http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/sets/ This email has been scanned for viruses and other threats using Newsquest's Ironport email filters. This document is private and confidential. All property, copyright and other rights in it and its contents belong to Newsquest Media GroupLimited. It must not be read, copied, disclosed or otherwise used without Newsquestbs authorisation. Newsquest may exercise its legal rights and remedies in the event of any such unauthorised use. Newsquest Media Group Limited. Registered in England, number 3105111. Registered office: 58 Church Street, Weybridge, Surrey KT13 8DP. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:28:02 +0100 From: "Bruno Clements" Subject: Re: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) Thanks for those links, very interesting, and explains why you can't swing the balance off to left or right on mono without it sounding like it's coming from just one speaker source... Kraftwerk are on the remastering/issue trail too - wonder if they've finally approved the versions that were done a few years ago or have had some boffins take another 'look'. http://pitchfork.com/news/36214-kraftwerk-announce-massive-eight-disc-box-set-reissue-series/ Bruno - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Pietromonaco" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) > (oops - sent too soon! Remastered!!!!! ) > >> am digging the beatles RMs....i'm a bit of a mono man myself and love the >> mono box in particular. the sound is incredible and i although i would >> usually answer the 1st lp was great but it was all down hill after >> that.........i've been having a good time just sort of tripping out with >> the >> stuff while doing the sihes, dirt, and general chores. bless the dole in >> america! >> > > I really want these. I missed out on the first round of the Mono boxes - > they sold out in Seattle on pre-orders alone. Looks like it will be > re-released in America Oct. 31st. > > The stereo remasters are great, I'm sure. But - there is some additional > modern "peak" compression on them vs. the original master tapes. It's > slight - but it's there. According to interviews, they couldn't add this > type of peak compression to the Mono masters - it destroyed the sound. > > From: > http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/09/04/beatles.masters.remasters.pdf > > "CNN: Does that make it harder to do what you were doing? > > Magee: Absolutely, the cause, or rather the effect, of only a tiny amount > of > EQ makes a hell of a difference in mono. Whereas in stereo everything has > space, in the > mono it's right dead center. The thing that surprised me about the monos > was how good > they actually sounded and how well-mixed and well-balanced they were. They > actually had a feeling of space and depth." > > and.... > > "We have treated the stereos and monos just slightly differently in the > sense > that we think the stereos are going to the product that is going to sell > the most, > because most people are into stereo -- but obviously the collectors and > people who grew > up in the '60s are going to be more familiar with the monos. > > So from that point of view, one of the things that is a contentious audio > problem today is limiting, "brick-wall limiting," which is making the > music as loud as you > possibly can. And you make it louder than somebody else's so yours sticks > out a little bit > more. For something like the Beatles, a band from the '60s, it would have > been > inappropriate to have given it that treatment, but we have made them > slightly louder. So that > they are at least slightly contemporary for today but certainly not as > loud as the > more contemporary bands. But the monos we haven't, for example. The monos > remain > unlimited." > > And - indeed - the original stereo CDs are not limited either. I'm trying > to find my original source, but I found this one: > http://goodrob13.com/2009/09/14/beatles-review-abbey-road-remastered-cd/ > > ah - here it is: > http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/13425-stereo-box-in-mono/ > > and - hey - what do you know? A Wire reference. The link above > cross-references this link: > http://pitchfork.com/features/guest-lists/5877-wire-desert-island-discs-as-of-181002-and-of-that-date-only/ > > Cheers, > Paul This email has been scanned for viruses and other threats using Newsquest's Ironport email filters. This document is private and confidential. All property, copyright and other rights in it and its contents belong to Newsquest Media GroupLimited. It must not be read, copied, disclosed or otherwise used without Newsquestbs authorisation. Newsquest may exercise its legal rights and remedies in the event of any such unauthorised use. Newsquest Media Group Limited. Registered in England, number 3105111. Registered office: 58 Church Street, Weybridge, Surrey KT13 8DP. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:15:41 -0500 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) My understanding is that Kraftwerk remastered their catalog themselves On Oct 14, 2009, at 6:28 AM, "Bruno Clements" wrote: > Thanks for those links, very interesting, and explains why you can't > swing > the balance off to left or right on mono without it sounding like it's > coming from just one speaker source... > > Kraftwerk are on the remastering/issue trail too - wonder if they've > finally > approved the versions that were done a few years ago or have had some > boffins take another 'look'. > > http://pitchfork.com/news/36214-kraftwerk-announce-massive-eight-disc-box-set-reissue-series/ > > Bruno > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Pietromonaco" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:55 AM > Subject: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) > > >> (oops - sent too soon! Remastered!!!!! ) >> >>> am digging the beatles RMs....i'm a bit of a mono man myself and >>> love the >>> mono box in particular. the sound is incredible and i although i >>> would >>> usually answer the 1st lp was great but it was all down hill after >>> that.........i've been having a good time just sort of tripping >>> out with >>> the >>> stuff while doing the sihes, dirt, and general chores. bless the >>> dole in >>> america! >>> >> >> I really want these. I missed out on the first round of the Mono >> boxes - >> they sold out in Seattle on pre-orders alone. Looks like it will be >> re-released in America Oct. 31st. >> >> The stereo remasters are great, I'm sure. But - there is some >> additional >> modern "peak" compression on them vs. the original master tapes. >> It's >> slight - but it's there. According to interviews, they couldn't >> add this >> type of peak compression to the Mono masters - it destroyed the >> sound. >> >> From: >> http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/09/04/beatles.masters.remasters.pdf >> >> "CNN: Does that make it harder to do what you were doing? >> >> Magee: Absolutely, the cause, or rather the effect, of only a tiny >> amount >> of >> EQ makes a hell of a difference in mono. Whereas in stereo >> everything has >> space, in the >> mono it's right dead center. The thing that surprised me about the >> monos >> was how good >> they actually sounded and how well-mixed and well-balanced they >> were. They >> actually had a feeling of space and depth." >> >> and.... >> >> "We have treated the stereos and monos just slightly differently in >> the >> sense >> that we think the stereos are going to the product that is going to >> sell >> the most, >> because most people are into stereo -- but obviously the collectors >> and >> people who grew >> up in the '60s are going to be more familiar with the monos. >> >> So from that point of view, one of the things that is a contentious >> audio >> problem today is limiting, "brick-wall limiting," which is making the >> music as loud as you >> possibly can. And you make it louder than somebody else's so yours >> sticks >> out a little bit >> more. For something like the Beatles, a band from the '60s, it >> would have >> been >> inappropriate to have given it that treatment, but we have made them >> slightly louder. So that >> they are at least slightly contemporary for today but certainly not >> as >> loud as the >> more contemporary bands. But the monos we haven't, for example. The >> monos >> remain >> unlimited." >> >> And - indeed - the original stereo CDs are not limited either. I'm >> trying >> to find my original source, but I found this one: >> http://goodrob13.com/2009/09/14/beatles-review-abbey-road-remastered-cd/ >> >> ah - here it is: >> http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/13425-stereo-box-in-mono/ >> >> and - hey - what do you know? A Wire reference. The link above >> cross-references this link: >> http://pitchfork.com/features/guest-lists/5877-wire-desert-island-discs-as-of-181002-and-of-that-date-only/ >> >> Cheers, >> Paul > This email has been scanned for viruses and other threats using > Newsquest's > Ironport email filters. > > This document is private and confidential. > All property, copyright and other rights in it and its contents > belong to > Newsquest Media GroupLimited. > It must not be read, copied, disclosed or otherwise used without > Newsquestbs > authorisation. Newsquest may exercise its legal rights and remedies > in the > event of any such unauthorised use. > > Newsquest Media Group Limited. > Registered in England, number 3105111. > Registered office: 58 Church Street, Weybridge, Surrey KT13 8DP. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:46:16 -0700 (PDT) From: elektrolad Subject: [idealcopy] Remasters I have both Beatles box sets and the mono mixes are the way to go. Probably cause we never had these in the US when I was growing up. The stereo versions do sound better than the previous issues. After all, they did spend four years cleaning up the master tapes. The Kraftwerk remasters are a different story. I compared Spacelab from 1978, 2004 & 2009. The 2009 version has been brick-walled. 2004 version sounds the best to me, but both of these are slightly faster than the 1978 version. 123.50 bpm to 123.19 bpm. So it seems like they just took the 2004 remasters and compressed the hell out of them. waveforms - http://tinyurl.com/ygvhqdx bpm - http://tinyurl.com/yhkurav and yes I do have the 2004 remasters set, not copies or mp3s. wnd3 You are receiving this email because I sent it to you. Musik http://www.myspace.com/elektrolad Official web site http://elektrolad.com - --- On Wed, 14/10/09, Bruno Clements wrote: From: Bruno Clements Subject: Re: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, 14 October, 2009, 7:28 AM Thanks for those links, very interesting, and explains why you can't swing the balance off to left or right on mono without it sounding like it's coming from just one speaker source... Kraftwerk are on the remastering/issue trail too - wonder if they've finally approved the versions that were done a few years ago or have had some boffins take another 'look'. http://pitchfork.com/news/36214-kraftwerk-announce-massive-eight-disc-box-set - -reissue-series/ Bruno - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Pietromonaco" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) > (oops - sent too soon! Remastered!!!!! ) > >> am digging the beatles RMs....i'm a bit of a mono man myself and love the >> mono box in particular. the sound is incredible and i although i would >> usually answer the 1st lp was great but it was all down hill after >> that.........i've been having a good time just sort of tripping out with >> the >> stuff while doing the sihes, dirt, and general chores. bless the dole in >> america! >> > > I really want these. I missed out on the first round of the Mono boxes - > they sold out in Seattle on pre-orders alone. Looks like it will be > re-released in America Oct. 31st. > > The stereo remasters are great, I'm sure. But - there is some additional > modern "peak" compression on them vs. the original master tapes. It's > slight - but it's there. According to interviews, they couldn't add this > type of peak compression to the Mono masters - it destroyed the sound. > > From: > http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/09/04/beatles.masters.remasters.pdf > > "CNN: Does that make it harder to do what you were doing? > > Magee: Absolutely, the cause, or rather the effect, of only a tiny amount > of > EQ makes a hell of a difference in mono. Whereas in stereo everything has > space, in the > mono it's right dead center. The thing that surprised me about the monos > was how good > they actually sounded and how well-mixed and well-balanced they were. They > actually had a feeling of space and depth." > > and.... > > "We have treated the stereos and monos just slightly differently in the > sense > that we think the stereos are going to the product that is going to sell > the most, > because most people are into stereo -- but obviously the collectors and > people who grew > up in the '60s are going to be more familiar with the monos. > > So from that point of view, one of the things that is a contentious audio > problem today is limiting, "brick-wall limiting," which is making the > music as loud as you > possibly can. And you make it louder than somebody else's so yours sticks > out a little bit > more. For something like the Beatles, a band from the '60s, it would have > been > inappropriate to have given it that treatment, but we have made them > slightly louder. So that > they are at least slightly contemporary for today but certainly not as > loud as the > more contemporary bands. But the monos we haven't, for example. The monos > remain > unlimited." > > And - indeed - the original stereo CDs are not limited either. I'm trying > to find my original source, but I found this one: > http://goodrob13.com/2009/09/14/beatles-review-abbey-road-remastered-cd/ > > ah - here it is: > http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/13425-stereo-box-in-mono/ > > and - hey - what do you know? A Wire reference. The link above > cross-references this link: > http://pitchfork.com/features/guest-lists/5877-wire-desert-island-discs-as-of - -181002-and-of-that-date-only/ > > Cheers, > Paul This email has been scanned for viruses and other threats using Newsquest's Ironport email filters. This document is private and confidential. All property, copyright and other rights in it and its contents belong to Newsquest Media GroupLimited. It must not be read, copied, disclosed or otherwise used without Newsquestbs authorisation. Newsquest may exercise its legal rights and remedies in the event of any such unauthorised use. Newsquest Media Group Limited. Registered in England, number 3105111. Registered office: 58 Church Street, Weybridge, Surrey KT13 8DP. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:34:27 -0400 From: TnA Subject: [idealcopy] Typical Girls I have the Slits' bio on my bedstand...has anyone read it? T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:34:46 -0700 From: "bSirius" Subject: Re: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) they've all been posted in newsgroups for the downloading complete with art. i, of course, don't condone it but it is there. alt.binaries.beatles.mp3s or something to that effect - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Pietromonaco" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:51 PM Subject: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) >> am digging the beatles RMs....i'm a bit of a mono man myself and love the >> mono box in particular. the sound is incredible and i although i would >> usually answer the 1st lp was great but it was all down hill after >> that.........i've been having a good time just sort of tripping out with >> the >> stuff while doing the sihes, dirt, and general chores. bless the dole in >> america! >> > > I really want these. I missed out on the first round of the Mono boxes - > they sold out in Seattle on pre-orders alone. Looks like it will be > re-released in America Oct. 31st. > > The stereo remasters are great, I'm sure. But - there is some additional > modern "peak" compression on them vs. the original master tapes. It's > slight - but it's there. According to interviews, they couldn't add this > type of peak compression to the Mono masters - it destroyed the sound. > > From: > http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/09/04/beatles.masters.remasters.pdf > > CNN: Does that make it harder to do what you were doing? > > Magee: Absolutely, the cause, or rather the effect, of only a tiny amount > of EQ makes a > hell of a difference in mono. Whereas in stereo everything has space, in > the mono it's > right dead center. The thing that surprised me about the monos was how > good they > actually sounded and how well-mixed and well-balanced they were. They > actually had a > feeling of space and depth. > > and.... > > We have treated the stereos and monos just slightly differently in the > sense that we > think the stereos are going to the product that is going to sell the most, > because most > people are into stereo -- but obviously the collectors and people who grew > up in the > '60s are going to be more familiar with the monos. > > So from that point of view, one of the things that is a contentious audio > problem today > is limiting, "brick-wall limiting," which is making the music as loud as > you possibly can. > And you make it louder than somebody else's so yours sticks out a little > bit more. For > something like the Beatles, a band from the '60s, it would have been > inappropriate to > have given it that treatment, but we have made them slightly louder. So > that they are > at least slightly contemporary for today but certainly not as loud as the > more > contemporary bands. But the monos we haven't, for example. The monos > remain > unlimited. > > And - indeed - the original stereo CDs are not limited either. I'm trying > to find my original source, but I found this one: > http://goodrob13.com/2009/09/14/beatles-review-abbey-road-remastered-cd/ > > ah - here it is: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:09:13 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: Beatles MONO (was Re: [idealcopy] Spotify) I've not got a set yet...I do think the Beatles box sets are waaay overpriced, and the individual CDs are at 1990s CD prices. They could have easily put the Mono & Stereo versions on one CD which would have made it more tempting. Quite tempted by the Kraftwerk set though. I never go around to picking up Electric Cafe, my copy of Man Machine is an old cassette version and my copies of TEE and The Mix are pretty worn out vinyl copies so it would be worth my while. This months MOJO has a really good interview with Ralf Hutter with loads of unseen photos (presumably from the box set liner notes) and all the lowdown on the remasters. David McKenzie wrote: > My understanding is that Kraftwerk remastered their catalog themselves > > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 6:28 AM, "Bruno Clements" > wrote: > >> Thanks for those links, very interesting, and explains why you can't >> swing >> the balance off to left or right on mono without it sounding like it's >> coming from just one speaker source... >> >> Kraftwerk are on the remastering/issue trail too - wonder if they've >> finally >> approved the versions that were done a few years ago or have had some >> boffins take another 'look'. >> >> http://pitchfork.com/news/36214-kraftwerk-announce-massive-eight-disc-box-set-reissue-series/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:13:31 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] BBC 4 Friday Synth Britannia This Friday on BB4: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n93c4 Looks veryp promising, and a long overdue 'proper' documentary on this subject. Obviously Depeche, Human league, OMD etc but the fact that Throbbing Gristle, John Foxx and the Cabs are on there too suggests they've done their research. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V11 #145 ********************************