From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V11 #143 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, October 13 2009 Volume 11 : Number 143 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] IC vs PF [Fergus Kelly ] Re: [idealcopy] IC vs PF [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: Re: [idealcopy] IC vs PF [davidmack@gmail.com] Re: [idealcopy] Spotify ["Bruno Clements" ] RE: [idealcopy] Spotify ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] Spotify [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Spotify [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] IC vs PF [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] IC vs PF [james bondage ] Re: [idealcopy] Spotify [james bondage ] Re: [idealcopy] Spotify [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] Bill Withers the Forum [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] Pink Flag book [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] Spotify [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] Pink Flag book [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] Bill Withers the Forum [David McKenzie Subject: [idealcopy] IC vs PF I like both forum and IC. Forum's handy because you can go to relevant threads, and go through chronology, whereas with IC it's daily digests (for me), and trawling through the SMOE archives if I need to find something specific. Although I've never been particularly active on either, I've been a bit more active on the forum lately, and have not posted to IC because I thought it would just be unnecessary replication. But as there's those who aren't on the forum, then here's a few items: Very briefly, for those yet to read Wilson Neate's book - you're in for an absolute treat: it's everything a Wire fan could want from a book about their first album. Ari asked about a new Wire album - give 'em a chance eh, what's the hurry ? I'm sure they've been at it, but would reckon next year before a physical item is present in the world. Kevin posted on the forum about the Magazine DVD. Here's my tuppence ha'penny's worth: Picture and sound are indeed top notch but the editor's got ants in his pants - the cuts are far too rapid (no more than about 2-3 seconds on each player), and for my money get rather wearing after a while. I hate all those pointless ceiling camera swoops. They aren't some Nu-Metal band. It's interesting to compare with the Forum footage as there were less cameras, so it's much more straight ahead. I enjoyed the rehearsal footage. Could've watched more of that. For the most part a good document to have, but the editing kind of ruined it for me. Has anyone read Helen Chase's biography ? At about 160 pages it's a bit slim, and a bit workaday in it's approach. Reasonable back story on each member (didn't realise Formula was the same age as Bruce), and a good sense of what went into the albums, but she's very weak on overall context, wiggling out with phrases like "much has been written about the scene of the late 70s etc., etc...". But, rather criminally to my mind there is very little analysis of Devoto's lyrics, which is very frustrating to say the least, for such an intriguing lyricist. There's occasional tantalising glimpses, but she should have pushed that area far more. Inexcusable really. Don't forget: Magazine on Jools this Tuesday (13th, nice birthday present, cheers lads) and Friday (16th). AT Keith asked about Bruce's new one. Well it's certainly a welcome departure from the random noises circa 'In Esse'. It's much more organic and free flowing, gentle even. Quite cinematic and atmospheric. Actually one particular drone on the track 'Zeros' sounds very like material from 'London Orbital'. My only problem with the album is the overuse of reverb and delay. It's fairly swimming in it. Oceanic and amniotic. Sounds heard from inside. Some parts feel like they need more clarity. There is a kind of, dare I say it, dark ambient/industrial gothic pall throughout 'Zeros', somewhat reminiscent of 90s genre protagonists like Jim Plotkin and Mick Harris. Perhaps this is a problem to do with the fact that Bruce doesn't 'consume' music in the regular sense, which effectively condems him to re-inventing the wheel each time. But overall it's strong and fairly promising for further development. Just let's hope it won't take him another 12 years (he'd be 75 !!!) As regards Mr. Rowland's diatribes on (and domination of) the forum, yes, they are rather tedious, but I just skip 'em mostly. I thought his recent response to Tim was remarkably controlled. I was expected far more bile. Maybe he was on valium. Fergus New CDs out now ! http://www.roomtemperature.org http://www.asullenrelapse.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/ferguskellyrecordings http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/sets/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:22:09 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IC vs PF >>Don't forget: Magazine on Jools this Tuesday (13th, nice birthday present, cheers lads) << I have to say you look a lot older than 13, Fergus ;-) M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:39:21 +0000 From: davidmack@gmail.com Subject: Re: Re: [idealcopy] IC vs PF There's no room for ageism on this list Sir. On 12/10/2009 8:22am, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >>Don't forget: Magazine on Jools this Tuesday (13th, nice birthday > present, cheers lads) > I have to say you look a lot older than 13, Fergus ;-) > M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:44:07 +0100 From: "Bruno Clements" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spotify ...is great until the tech guys at work decide to block it, then you realise how much you're addicted! This email has been scanned for viruses and other threats using Newsquest's Ironport email filters. This document is private and confidential. All property, copyright and other rights in it and its contents belong to Newsquest Media GroupLimited. It must not be read, copied, disclosed or otherwise used without Newsquestbs authorisation. Newsquest may exercise its legal rights and remedies in the event of any such unauthorised use. Newsquest Media Group Limited. Registered in England, number 3105111. Registered office: 58 Church Street, Weybridge, Surrey KT13 8DP. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:05:12 -0700 From: "bSirius" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IC vs PF am rather enjoying the roomtemperature sound collages - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kelly" To: "ideal copy" Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 4:14 AM Subject: [idealcopy] IC vs PF >I like both forum and IC. Forum's handy because you can go to relevant >threads, and go through chronology, whereas with IC it's daily digests (for >me), and trawling through the SMOE archives if I need to find something >specific. Although I've never been particularly active on either, I've been >a bit more active on the forum lately, and have not posted to IC because I >thought it would just be unnecessary replication. But as there's those who >aren't on the forum, then here's a few items: > > Very briefly, for those yet to read Wilson Neate's book - you're in for an > absolute treat: it's everything a Wire fan could want from a book about > their first album. > > Ari asked about a new Wire album - give 'em a chance eh, what's the hurry > ? I'm sure they've been at it, but would reckon next year before a > physical item is present in the world. > > Kevin posted on the forum about the Magazine DVD. Here's my tuppence > ha'penny's worth: > > Picture and sound are indeed top notch but the editor's got ants in his > pants - the cuts are far too rapid (no more than about 2-3 seconds on each > player), and for my money get rather wearing after a while. I hate all > those pointless ceiling camera swoops. They aren't some Nu-Metal band. > It's interesting to compare with the Forum footage as there were less > cameras, so it's much more straight ahead. I enjoyed the rehearsal > footage. Could've watched more of that. For the most part a good document > to have, but the editing kind of ruined it for me. > > Has anyone read Helen Chase's biography ? At about 160 pages it's a bit > slim, and a bit workaday in it's approach. Reasonable back story on each > member (didn't realise Formula was the same age as Bruce), and a good > sense of what went into the albums, but she's very weak on overall > context, wiggling out with phrases like "much has been written about the > scene of the late 70s etc., etc...". > > But, rather criminally to my mind there is very little analysis of > Devoto's lyrics, which is very frustrating to say the least, for such an > intriguing lyricist. There's occasional tantalising glimpses, but she > should have pushed that area far more. Inexcusable really. > > Don't forget: Magazine on Jools this Tuesday (13th, nice birthday present, > cheers lads) and Friday (16th). > > AT Keith asked about Bruce's new one. Well it's certainly a welcome > departure from the random noises circa 'In Esse'. It's much more organic > and free flowing, gentle even. Quite cinematic and atmospheric. Actually > one particular drone on the track 'Zeros' sounds very like material from > 'London Orbital'. My only problem with the album is the overuse of reverb > and delay. It's fairly swimming in it. Oceanic and amniotic. Sounds heard > from inside. Some parts feel like they need more clarity. There is a kind > of, dare I say it, dark ambient/industrial gothic pall throughout 'Zeros', > somewhat reminiscent of 90s genre protagonists like Jim Plotkin and Mick > Harris. Perhaps this is a problem to do with the fact that Bruce doesn't > 'consume' music in the regular sense, which effectively condems him to > re-inventing the wheel each time. But overall it's strong and fairly > promising for further development. Just let's hope it won't take him > another 12 years (he'd be 75 > !!!) > > As regards Mr. Rowland's diatribes on (and domination of) the forum, yes, > they are rather tedious, but I just skip 'em mostly. I thought his recent > response to Tim was remarkably controlled. I was expected far more bile. > Maybe he was on valium. > > Fergus > > > New CDs out now ! > > http://www.roomtemperature.org > http://www.asullenrelapse.blogspot.com > http://www.myspace.com/ferguskellyrecordings > http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/sets/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:21:40 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Spotify The Groundhogs have been touring with Stray, a line-up I saw in Bristol Colston Hall around 1973. I was vaguely tempted. Sadly, Tony McPhee has had a stroke and all further gigs this year have been cancelled (just found this out, honest). Spotify is one of the wonders of the age and I get quite disappointed if something I expect to be there isn't. I tend to use it for stuff not in my CD collection - either which I only have on vinyl or which I haven't heard yet. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Andy Lumbard Sent: 11 October 2009 23:40 To: idealcopy Subject: [idealcopy] Spotify Chris wrote <<< I wouldimagine even long in the tooth copyists have checked out Spotify and I have found it just great for listening while working etc or reliving blasts from the past. (Just went through the whole of The Groundhogs albums - - really nostalgic and enjoyable).And yes I have then gone out and purchased an album or 2 I have listened too.i.e Bombay Bicycle Club. Just wondered how Spotify has gone down with others on the list. >>> Oh no I am now long in the tooth! Although I have to say that my 16 year old son put me onto Spotify ( though not facebook, yet) I too am really enjoying it...and it is costing me a fortune! How come? Well just having come off a 7 gigs in 11 days stint I am checking out who is playing locally and whether they might be worth seeing! Interesting that you mention BBC. I caught them last Tuesday, thought they were damned excellent, and seemed to demonstrate some maturity beyond their years. They put on a great show, and have certainly built up a young "Face book", word-of-mouth-type fan base - mainly 6th formers, although pleased to report, I wasn't the oldest there. I reckon they are here for a while. The Groundhogs? My goodness me! Aren't they touring at the moment with Wishbone Ash? You'll be telling me Fleetwood Mac have reformed next ?! AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:51:29 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spotify Hi again Wishbone Ash ?? I have news.they played my local city Peterborough (that's England) on Friday at #20 per ticket. I couldn't make it because I found out too late and had another gig to go to. (My nephews 5th birthday party!). However Martin Turner still fronts the band and guess who was the support ...??? Get ready !!! FOCUS !! Yes the dutch prog band from the 70's. Still got all the albums too. Chris np Orbital - In Sides (who have also reformed & are ripping up Europe. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:59:41 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spotify In a message dated 12/10/2009 20:29:44 GMT Daylight Time, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: The Groundhogs have been touring with Stray, a line-up I saw in Bristol Colston Hall around 1973. I was vaguely tempted. Sadly, Tony McPhee has had a stroke and all further gigs this year have been cancelled (just found this out, honest). Sad news indeed Keith. A great guitarist in his heyday. I have also seen Stray back in the 70's and somewhere have an album of theirs. Must dig it out. I know too a lot of Copyists have a birthday around this time of year. I am 50 on the 29th. Don't get me started. So happy birthday to all concerned. I'll get me zimmerframe.... Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:56:02 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IC vs PF Yes Happy 13th Fergus Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:04:29 -0700 From: james bondage Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IC vs PF ditto........at least you didn't arrest at 12 On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:56 PM, wrote: > Yes > Happy 13th Fergus > > Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:06:01 -0700 From: james bondage Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spotify too friggin kewl! would love to hear argus or the second focus lp in it's entirety.....lol sugar island cuba indeed. what's next sugarloaf on tour? ari....................... On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:51 PM, wrote: > Hi again > Wishbone Ash ?? I have news.they played my local city Peterborough > (that's England) on Friday at #20 per ticket. I couldn't make it because I > found > out too late and had another gig to go to. (My nephews 5th birthday > party!). > However Martin Turner still fronts the band and guess who was the support > ...??? Get ready !!! > > FOCUS !! Yes the dutch prog band from the 70's. Still got all the albums > too. > > Chris np Orbital - In Sides (who have also reformed & are ripping up > Europe. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:00:36 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spotify It's like listening to a really annoying local radio station with awful adverts except you get to choose the cool music! Much ado about whether the business model works, and I believe Spotify hasn't yet made any money (not enough ad revenue, not enough paid subscribers). I'm surprised the illegal download crew havent taken to it more since its far less faff than searching tatty websites looking for stuff, and lets face it illegal downloading is essentially driven by laziness and a desire to get something for nothing which Spotify delivers. The biggie is whether the iphone version takes off..no need for an itunes library on yer ipod just dial up what you want.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:02:56 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bill Withers the Forum David McKenzie wrote: > Gee - a chance to revisit that pissing contest - I'll pass thank you > Oh, My pissing days are over! He can piss much further and higher than me! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:05:42 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Flag book Gotta be worth picking up the inevitable remainder stock when it turns up in Fopp then. PAUL RABJOHN wrote: > well keith i'm sure you'd love the wilson neate one , its very good stuff > indeed. > > i also bought the paul lester one , wouldn't dispute for a minute its > not half as good as the WN effort , but i didn't think it was the complete > turkey i was maybe expecting. lots of scissors and paste going on , but the > bands comments over the years are generally worth giveing an ear to. its > certainly much better than "exploded views" and i never saw that getting the > sort of slating PL's book got in certain quarters.... > > p > ________________________________ > From: Ari > To: > Keith Knight ; Idealcopy > Sent: > Saturday, 10 October, 2009 20:24:11 > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Flag book > It's a darn good read, I did spot a mistake but can't remember what it > was........ (old age y'know) Highly recommend it .A > > > > Let's get some > conversation going then! Has anyone read this book yet? (the > one by Wilson > Neate). I haven't got it yet and would only need a little > encouragement > (which I'm sure I'll get...). > > another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:04:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spotify Pandora doesn't advertise but makes it's money on c.d sales, a better idea I think, as for listening on your iphone, wouldn't that be a bit costly? I listen to 'broadcast' radio on my mp3 player and it doesn't cost a thing, furthermore I never listen to radio stations that do advertise, over here they're pretty much owned by one company (clearwater) :long live student radio, check out wxyc online, the format is as varied as the announcers that volunteer to host a show. Keep your computer 'on time' with this (free) app. http://download.cnet.com/Atomic-Clock-Sync/3000-18512_4-14844.html?tag=feed&subj= =rss.: ________________________________ From: Tim To: Ideal Copy Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 8:00:36 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spotify It's like listening to a really annoying local radio station with awful adverts except you get to choose the cool music! Much ado about whether the business model works, and I believe Spotify hasn't yet made any money (not enough ad revenue, not enough paid subscribers). I'm surprised the illegal download crew havent taken to it more since its far less faff than searching tatty websites looking for stuff, and lets face it illegal downloading is essentially driven by laziness and a desire to get something for nothing which Spotify delivers. The biggie is whether the iphone version takes off..no need for an itunes library on yer ipod just dial up what you want.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:10:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Flag book I ordered Lesters book and as it hadn't turned up some several weeks after release hoped (after reading the reviews) that Amazon had lost my order, no such luck. haven't read it yet, didn't seem much point after reading Wilsons' book, but I'm guessing I'll 'get 'round to it' now the cold weather is just a sneeze away. A........ Keep your computer 'on time' with this (free) app. http://download.cnet.com/Atomic-Clock-Sync/3000-18512_4-14844.html?tag=feed&subj= =rss.: ________________________________ From: Tim To: Idealcopy Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 8:05:42 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Flag book Gotta be worth picking up the inevitable remainder stock when it turns up in Fopp then. PAUL RABJOHN wrote: > well keith i'm sure you'd love the wilson neate one , its very good stuff > indeed. > > i also bought the paul lester one , wouldn't dispute for a minute its > not half as good as the WN effort , but i didn't think it was the complete > turkey i was maybe expecting. lots of scissors and paste going on , but the > bands comments over the years are generally worth giveing an ear to. its > certainly much better than "exploded views" and i never saw that getting the > sort of slating PL's book got in certain quarters.... > > p > ________________________________ > From: Ari > To: > Keith Knight ; Idealcopy > Sent: > Saturday, 10 October, 2009 20:24:11 > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Flag book > It's a darn good read, I did spot a mistake but can't remember what it > was........ (old age y'know) Highly recommend it .A > > > > Let's get some > conversation going then! Has anyone read this book yet? (the > one by Wilson > Neate). I haven't got it yet and would only need a little > encouragement > (which I'm sure I'll get...). > > another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:17:01 -0500 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bill Withers the Forum mdr On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Tim wrote: > David McKenzie wrote: > >> Gee - a chance to revisit that pissing contest - I'll pass thank you >> >> > Oh, My pissing days are over! He can piss much further and higher than me! ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V11 #143 ********************************