From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V11 #128 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, September 8 2009 Volume 11 : Number 128 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise ["keith a" ] Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise [PAUL RABJOHN ] Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise [PAUL RABJOHN ] Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise [David McKenzie ] Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise ["bSirius" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:54:22 +0100 From: "keith a" Subject: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/sep/06/john-lydon-public-image-limited John Lydon: PiL lets me express proper emotions He was the sneering face of punk. Now John Lydon berates naughty kids in the street. He reveals why he's reforming Public Image Ltd Dorian Lynskey guardian.co.uk, Sunday 6 September 2009 21.35 BST Article historyOn Christmas Day 1978, almost exactly a year after the implosion of the Sex Pistols while on tour in San Francisco, the artist formerly known as Johnny Rotten unveiled his new band, Public Image Ltd, at the Rainbow theatre in London. The audience, John Lydon remembers with amusement, were "nauseated, because the bass frequency was so low your bowels started to vibrate". He lets out his familiar arch cackle. "Well, it's a different experience at Christmas." Lydon has now chosen to relaunch PiL, after a 17-year hiatus, with a series of pre-Christmas shows. In the interim, he has reformed the Sex Pistols twice, but PiL, he maintains, are his "first love". Over the course of eight albums and as many lineups, PiL were as inspired and confounding as their frontman. Their ferociously inventive early work has influenced bands such as Massive Attack, the Manic Street Preachers, Primal Scream and any number of this decade's post-punk revivalists. Their return should be interesting. "It feels clean," says Lydon. "It's refreshing." Indeed, a clean start was the original point of PiL. Lydon was sickened by punk even at the height of the Sex Pistols' fame. "I don't like cliches, I don't like entrapments, I don't like uniforms, and punk was getting into a real problem with that. It's very sad seeing people filling up the first 10 rows trying to look exactly like you." After the band disintegrated, Lydon, broke and forbidden by former Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren even to use the name Rotten, spent some time in Jamaica, seeing how dub-reggae producers worked. "It was the spaciousness," he says. "For me, the best rock is not what you play - it's what you're not playing." Back in England, he recruited a new band (childhood friend Jah Wobble on bass plus former Clash guitarist Keith Levene), named them after a Muriel Spark novel, and buried the myth of the Sex Pistols with their first single, simply called Public Image: "You never listened to a word that I said/ You only seen me from the clothes that I wear." The PiL lineup that recorded the benchmark post-punk albums First Issue and Metal Box will not, however, be returning. "They're off on their own tangents," Lydon says vaguely. Are they all still friends? "Wobble always, yes. Keith used to be, but he went off into his own little universe and never came back." After they departed (Wobble in 1980, Levene in 1983), PiL went through several incarnations: on 1986's Album, Lydon worked with a bizarre selection of musicians, including guitar hero Steve Vai, Cream drummer Ginger Baker and even (although his contributions went unused) Miles Davis. The current PiL features two late-1980s members: guitarist Lu Edmonds and drummer Bruce Smith, plus one new arrival, multi-instrumentalist Scott Firth. "We'll see where we can go," Lydon says. "Some things may be quite similar. Some may not." Part of the impetus for PiL's return seems to have been emotional. Last year, Lydon lost his father and learned that his brother had cancer (now in remission) - events that reminded him of the early days of PiL, when his mother and his friend and former bandmate Sid Vicious died. His mother's passing inspired Death Disco, a howling punk-funk exorcism that surely remains one of the most harrowing songs ever to grace Top of the Pops. With Wobble's enveloping basslines, Levene's unsettling guitar and Lydon's knife-on-glass vocals ("like a bag of cats being slung down a staircase" is his own description), PiL were sonically radical but never cerebral. "It's not about being in or out of tune," he says. "The Sex Pistols were too rigid. PiL allowed me to express proper emotions. So I really wanted to get out and do [Death Disco] properly live again." Lydon refuses to define PiL's sound or agenda. "When I finally cease working, then you can make a judgment on what PiL is or isn't," he says tartly. "For me, it's an unfinished work which is set to continue for some time." Though a fiercely bright autodidact - a product of what he calls Britain's "self-education system" - Lydon dislikes anyone he sees as overtly intellectual or pretentious, which includes such esteemed writers about his work as Jon Savage and Greil Marcus. Analysis, I am slow to realise, irritates him intensely. I make the mistake of asking him if he evolved the band by following his musical whims. "Whims?" he spits, sounding uncannily like Sir Alan Sugar in high dudgeon. "Whims! That's the most ridiculous word to use. There's no whim to any of it. All right? It's all about the emotions. I attack my weaknesses head-bang-fucking-on, and it's quite painful for me at times - and it's important." Well, I press on unwisely, the later records, including hits such as Rise and Don't Ask Me, were far more pop-friendly than the early ones. "I disagree entirely," he says, with something like disgust. "I think that trying to label and categorise is actually to the destruction of a band like Public Image. You must not make such fake accusations. Otherwise you are missing the point. Big time." So any attempt to analyse PiL's history is missing the point? "Well, if you have the nerve and gall to tell me that you know me better than myself, ab-so-lute-ly!" Oh dear. But if Lydon is quick to take offence, then he is, thankfully, just as quick to forget it. His annoyance abruptly subsides as he explains that he is jittery about the wildfires ravaging California; he can see the smoke from his window. He has lived in Los Angeles with Nora Forster, his wife of 30 years, since the early 1980s, but still maintains UK citizenship. Does he enjoy returning to Britain? "It's always strange. It's brilliant the vibe you get off the cab driver - as soon as he opens his mouth you feel great - and then you see the horrid little streets and it all feels like a big toytown. And then you become reacquainted with it and stop being so, well, spiteful to your past." On a recent visit, he says, he berated some schoolkids for throwing stones at passing buses. "Younger people at the moment are very mouthy and aggressive," he complains, oblivious to the irony. "You're all terrified of your own youth. You're not allowed to give them a clip around the ear and send them home." But weren't people scared of him in his youth? "Mmm. That was the power of words, but this lot use violence." Lydon was never the folk demon he was seen to be during the Sex Pistols' firework-like lifespan, but it has still been strange to watch him become a cantankerous national treasure. Since his improbable appearance on I'm a Celebrity . . . Get Me Out of Here! in 2004, he has hosted well-regarded nature documentaries and become the face of Country Life butter. Despite his thirst for innovation (he was an early adopter of hip-hop and techno), he sounds rather old-fashioned at 53, brushing aside current bands ("a bit too manufactured"), digital music ("far too cold and detached") and computers in general: "My eyesight's gone. They drive me insane. How many mpegs of saucy goings-on do you have to squint at before you learn this is no good?" The only person, aside from his band and family, whom he expresses any enthusiasm for is David Attenborough, who is "fantastic!" Yet trouble continues to follow him around. Over the last couple of years, he or members of his entourage have been accused of assaulting Roxane Davis (an assistant on a US TV show he was appearing on) and Bloc Party frontman Kele Okereke; and of having a run-in with Duffy at an awards ceremony. "People are told that's what there'll be and therefore they believe it," he says. "I've turned arrogance into an artform, where it's so absurd that it becomes comedy. But I've never done anything to hurt anybody or steal from anyone." It's strange how his tone swings so often between imperious disdain and wounded sincerity. A little later he adds: "I would like to be a good person." Does he think he is? "Well, I'm going to work at it. You can always wake up on the wrong side of the bed and boo-hiss everyone suffers. We can all be temperamental." Is being on his bad side a frightening experience? "It would be very hard to get there. You'd really have to work at it. I can't carry on hatreds because they become almost amusing. I don't actually hate Malcolm [McLaren]; it's just fun to hate him. He's just one of those people." His voice softens into amused melancholy. "I think what we're getting to here is so am I." We're out of time. Lydon has to go. "Let's hope the Guardian's as poisonous as ever!" he says cheerfully. I quickly remind him of a line from 1979's Chant, about urban violence: "It's not important/ It's not worth a mention in the Guardian." The cackle rattles out again, this time with real relish. "Isn't life fun?" he says. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:29:03 +0000 (GMT) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise dare i ask who the hell is "multi instrumentalist Scott Firth"? ________________________________ From: keith a To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Monday, 7 September, 2009 1:54:22 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/sep/06/john-lydon-public-image-limited John Lydon: PiL lets me express proper emotions He was the sneering face of punk. Now John Lydon berates naughty kids in the street. He reveals why he's reforming Public Image Ltd Dorian Lynskey guardian.co.uk, Sunday 6 September 2009 21.35 BST Article historyOn Christmas Day 1978, almost exactly a year after the implosion of the Sex Pistols while on tour in San Francisco, the artist formerly known as Johnny Rotten unveiled his new band, Public Image Ltd, at the Rainbow theatre in London. The audience, John Lydon remembers with amusement, were "nauseated, because the bass frequency was so low your bowels started to vibrate". He lets out his familiar arch cackle. "Well, it's a different experience at Christmas." Lydon has now chosen to relaunch PiL, after a 17-year hiatus, with a series of pre-Christmas shows. In the interim, he has reformed the Sex Pistols twice, but PiL, he maintains, are his "first love". Over the course of eight albums and as many lineups, PiL were as inspired and confounding as their frontman. Their ferociously inventive early work has influenced bands such as Massive Attack, the Manic Street Preachers, Primal Scream and any number of this decade's post-punk revivalists. Their return should be interesting. "It feels clean," says Lydon. "It's refreshing." Indeed, a clean start was the original point of PiL. Lydon was sickened by punk even at the height of the Sex Pistols' fame. "I don't like cliches, I don't like entrapments, I don't like uniforms, and punk was getting into a real problem with that. It's very sad seeing people filling up the first 10 rows trying to look exactly like you." After the band disintegrated, Lydon, broke and forbidden by former Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren even to use the name Rotten, spent some time in Jamaica, seeing how dub-reggae producers worked. "It was the spaciousness," he says. "For me, the best rock is not what you play - it's what you're not playing." Back in England, he recruited a new band (childhood friend Jah Wobble on bass plus former Clash guitarist Keith Levene), named them after a Muriel Spark novel, and buried the myth of the Sex Pistols with their first single, simply called Public Image: "You never listened to a word that I said/ You only seen me from the clothes that I wear." The PiL lineup that recorded the benchmark post-punk albums First Issue and Metal Box will not, however, be returning. "They're off on their own tangents," Lydon says vaguely. Are they all still friends? "Wobble always, yes. Keith used to be, but he went off into his own little universe and never came back." After they departed (Wobble in 1980, Levene in 1983), PiL went through several incarnations: on 1986's Album, Lydon worked with a bizarre selection of musicians, including guitar hero Steve Vai, Cream drummer Ginger Baker and even (although his contributions went unused) Miles Davis. The current PiL features two late-1980s members: guitarist Lu Edmonds and drummer Bruce Smith, plus one new arrival, multi-instrumentalist Scott Firth. "We'll see where we can go," Lydon says. "Some things may be quite similar. Some may not." Part of the impetus for PiL's return seems to have been emotional. Last year, Lydon lost his father and learned that his brother had cancer (now in remission) - events that reminded him of the early days of PiL, when his mother and his friend and former bandmate Sid Vicious died. His mother's passing inspired Death Disco, a howling punk-funk exorcism that surely remains one of the most harrowing songs ever to grace Top of the Pops. With Wobble's enveloping basslines, Levene's unsettling guitar and Lydon's knife-on-glass vocals ("like a bag of cats being slung down a staircase" is his own description), PiL were sonically radical but never cerebral. "It's not about being in or out of tune," he says. "The Sex Pistols were too rigid. PiL allowed me to express proper emotions. So I really wanted to get out and do [Death Disco] properly live again." Lydon refuses to define PiL's sound or agenda. "When I finally cease working, then you can make a judgment on what PiL is or isn't," he says tartly. "For me, it's an unfinished work which is set to continue for some time." Though a fiercely bright autodidact - a product of what he calls Britain's "self-education system" - Lydon dislikes anyone he sees as overtly intellectual or pretentious, which includes such esteemed writers about his work as Jon Savage and Greil Marcus. Analysis, I am slow to realise, irritates him intensely. I make the mistake of asking him if he evolved the band by following his musical whims. "Whims?" he spits, sounding uncannily like Sir Alan Sugar in high dudgeon. "Whims! That's the most ridiculous word to use. There's no whim to any of it. All right? It's all about the emotions. I attack my weaknesses head-bang-fucking-on, and it's quite painful for me at times - and it's important." Well, I press on unwisely, the later records, including hits such as Rise and Don't Ask Me, were far more pop-friendly than the early ones. "I disagree entirely," he says, with something like disgust. "I think that trying to label and categorise is actually to the destruction of a band like Public Image. You must not make such fake accusations. Otherwise you are missing the point. Big time." So any attempt to analyse PiL's history is missing the point? "Well, if you have the nerve and gall to tell me that you know me better than myself, ab-so-lute-ly!" Oh dear. But if Lydon is quick to take offence, then he is, thankfully, just as quick to forget it. His annoyance abruptly subsides as he explains that he is jittery about the wildfires ravaging California; he can see the smoke from his window. He has lived in Los Angeles with Nora Forster, his wife of 30 years, since the early 1980s, but still maintains UK citizenship. Does he enjoy returning to Britain? "It's always strange. It's brilliant the vibe you get off the cab driver - as soon as he opens his mouth you feel great - and then you see the horrid little streets and it all feels like a big toytown. And then you become reacquainted with it and stop being so, well, spiteful to your past." On a recent visit, he says, he berated some schoolkids for throwing stones at passing buses. "Younger people at the moment are very mouthy and aggressive," he complains, oblivious to the irony. "You're all terrified of your own youth. You're not allowed to give them a clip around the ear and send them home." But weren't people scared of him in his youth? "Mmm. That was the power of words, but this lot use violence." Lydon was never the folk demon he was seen to be during the Sex Pistols' firework-like lifespan, but it has still been strange to watch him become a cantankerous national treasure. Since his improbable appearance on I'm a Celebrity . . . Get Me Out of Here! in 2004, he has hosted well-regarded nature documentaries and become the face of Country Life butter. Despite his thirst for innovation (he was an early adopter of hip-hop and techno), he sounds rather old-fashioned at 53, brushing aside current bands ("a bit too manufactured"), digital music ("far too cold and detached") and computers in general: "My eyesight's gone. They drive me insane. How many mpegs of saucy goings-on do you have to squint at before you learn this is no good?" The only person, aside from his band and family, whom he expresses any enthusiasm for is David Attenborough, who is "fantastic!" Yet trouble continues to follow him around. Over the last couple of years, he or members of his entourage have been accused of assaulting Roxane Davis (an assistant on a US TV show he was appearing on) and Bloc Party frontman Kele Okereke; and of having a run-in with Duffy at an awards ceremony. "People are told that's what there'll be and therefore they believe it," he says. "I've turned arrogance into an artform, where it's so absurd that it becomes comedy. But I've never done anything to hurt anybody or steal from anyone." It's strange how his tone swings so often between imperious disdain and wounded sincerity. A little later he adds: "I would like to be a good person." Does he think he is? "Well, I'm going to work at it. You can always wake up on the wrong side of the bed and boo-hiss everyone suffers. We can all be temperamental." Is being on his bad side a frightening experience? "It would be very hard to get there. You'd really have to work at it. I can't carry on hatreds because they become almost amusing. I don't actually hate Malcolm [McLaren]; it's just fun to hate him. He's just one of those people." His voice softens into amused melancholy. "I think what we're getting to here is so am I." We're out of time. Lydon has to go. "Let's hope the Guardian's as poisonous as ever!" he says cheerfully. I quickly remind him of a line from 1979's Chant, about urban violence: "It's not important/ It's not worth a mention in the Guardian." The cackle rattles out again, this time with real relish. "Isn't life fun?" he says. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 11:50:57 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise >>dare i ask who the hell is "multi instrumentalist Scott Firth"?<< Quick google results in this: _http://www.myspace.com/scottfirth_ (http://www.myspace.com/scottfirth) Session man with extensive CV... John Martyn and the Spice Girls, though not at the same time. M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:34:43 +0000 (GMT) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise my pulse has not quickened at this news. although , having heard the lydon solo album , i would agree he needs collaborators most urgently. however , i fear this is not the guy for the job. funnily enough i played the keith levine solo album at the weekend. that's not much cop either , though not as bad as "psychos path". meanwhile there's a copy of bruce's new cd up on ebay but i didn't indulge as it would be nice to give Mego the money rather than some dance store. p ________________________________ From: "MarkBursa@aol.com" To: paulrabjohn@btinternet.com; keith.indoorminer@virgin.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Monday, 7 September, 2009 4:50:57 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise >>dare i ask who the hell is "multi instrumentalist Scott Firth"?<< Quick google results in this: _http://www.myspace.com/scottfirth_ (http://www.myspace.com/scottfirth) Session man with extensive CV... John Martyn and the Spice Girls, though not at the same time. M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:49:46 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise Might make a nice pre-Xmas gig though. Never seen any version of PiL, though whether sideman's sideman Lu can handle the Levine bits is another issue. If there are any Levine bits - it's billed as a 30th anniversary Metal Box tour, but sounds like it'll be a greatest hits show. Which probably means the punk's not dead brigade will be out in force... M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:00:33 +0100 From: "keith a" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise SOMEONE ON ANOTHER LIST POSTED THIS... I saw Jah Wobble do a talk at the Green Man festival (one of the highlights) in advance of his forthcoming book (a good read). He said Lydon had called him to ask him to be involved & he'd said yes, however he then went on to say he didn't like the "business" side of things so he bailed out. He also implied that if he was involved he'd want to do things "properly" which would include new material amongst other things ... From: MarkBursa@aol.com [mailto:MarkBursa@aol.com] Sent: 07 September 2009 17:50 To: paulrabjohn@btinternet.com; keith.indoorminer@virgin.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise Might make a nice pre-Xmas gig though. Never seen any version of PiL, though whether sideman's sideman Lu can handle the Levine bits is another issue. If there are any Levine bits - it's billed as a 30th anniversary Metal Box tour, but sounds like it'll be a greatest hits show. Which probably means the punk's not dead brigade will be out in force... M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:12:22 +0000 (GMT) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise well i saw the LA cabaret band "this is not a love song" era PIL and desperately wished i hadn't. when i bought the ticket it hadn't yet been widely announced that KL had left and i was just so desperate to see Lydon and so bloody disappointed by the lame show i got. one of my top 10 duff gigs of all time i'm afraid. and yes they did loads of Metal Box stuff , so i've already seen Poptones , Careering et al slaughtered once. which , as the song says , is enough. hmmmm , Lu. let's look at his CV. the Damned album everyone involved with is deeply ashamed of , the PIL era everyone forgets and the arse end of the Mekons career. hmm , not exactly solid gold. still , to be fair , i had serious doubts about Noko in Magazine and i ate my words there. but seriously the guy i feel sorry for is Kele Oldjoke , who earnt himself a slapping from Lydon's roadcrew for suggesting something pretty similar to what the great man himself has come up with 6 months later. always knew Bloc Party had an original idea in them somewhere ;-) p ________________________________ From: "MarkBursa@aol.com" To: paulrabjohn@btinternet.com; keith.indoorminer@virgin.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Monday, 7 September, 2009 5:49:46 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise Might make a nice pre-Xmas gig though. Never seen any version of PiL, though whether sideman's sideman Lu can handle the Levine bits is another issue. If there are any Levine bits - it's billed as a 30th anniversary Metal Box tour, but sounds like it'll be a greatest hits show. Which probably means the punk's not dead brigade will be out in force... M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 21:18:38 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise I was at the Wobble interview too, although must have arrived too late for this snippet. Wobble was highly diverting, a real raconteur, which bodes well for the memoir. Amusing slagging off of the World Music scene ("run by privately educated c*nts") and of Lydon's alleged racism ("He's a singer. They're too up themselves to sign up to ideologies"). Or words to that effect. David Thomas was good in the literature tent too, delivering songs that involved little singing or music and musing about conversing with Bryan Ferry in the rock star retirement home (Ferry will be bragging about getting thousands to sing along with him whereas Thomas won't be able to compete). I'd mention some performances too - The Phantom Band, Grizzly Bear, Trembling Bells and Bon Iver in particular (Wilco played too, but I ducked out to see Hawkwind instead, sorry Ari) - but doubt that too many are interested. But I will also mention Damo Suzuki at the Offset Festival this past weekend. Over an hour of pyschedelic sonic attack with a bunch of musicians he'd never met before (two of them I suspect from Ipso Facto, who played their last gig at the Festival) it was as riveting a performance as I've seen in years (Van der Graaf and Wire excepted of course). I've never seen him before now but on this evidence I'll be stalking him. The Japanese continegent were on fine form - Drum Eyes warmed Damo up nicely and Bo Ninjen were flabbergastingly energetic. As for PIL live - got momentarily excited until I remembered that I saw them around the 'This is not a Love Song' period and thought they were OK but no more. Doubt that they'll be better this time round. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of keith a Sent: 07 September 2009 20:01 To: MarkBursa@aol.com; paulrabjohn@btinternet.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise SOMEONE ON ANOTHER LIST POSTED THIS... I saw Jah Wobble do a talk at the Green Man festival (one of the highlights) in advance of his forthcoming book (a good read). He said Lydon had called him to ask him to be involved & he'd said yes, however he then went on to say he didn't like the "business" side of things so he bailed out. He also implied that if he was involved he'd want to do things "properly" which would include new material amongst other things ... From: MarkBursa@aol.com [mailto:MarkBursa@aol.com] Sent: 07 September 2009 17:50 To: paulrabjohn@btinternet.com; keith.indoorminer@virgin.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise Might make a nice pre-Xmas gig though. Never seen any version of PiL, though whether sideman's sideman Lu can handle the Levine bits is another issue. If there are any Levine bits - it's billed as a 30th anniversary Metal Box tour, but sounds like it'll be a greatest hits show. Which probably means the punk's not dead brigade will be out in force... M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:10:06 +0100 From: "keith a" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise I saw them circa Album at Hanley Victoria Hall, and they were pretty good. Obviously not the classic line up, but no doubt a huge improvement on the cabaret version. Surprisingly the played Anarchy... It probably wasn't the greatest ever version, but at least I can tell the grandkids I saw Lydon sing it! ; ) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of PAUL RABJOHN Sent: 07 September 2009 21:12 To: MarkBursa@aol.com; keith.indoorminer@virgin.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise well i saw the LA cabaret band "this is not a love song" era PIL and desperately wished i hadn't. when i bought the ticket it hadn't yet been widely announced that KL had left and i was just so desperate to see Lydon and so bloody disappointed by the lame show i got. one of my top 10 duff gigs of all time i'm afraid. and yes they did loads of Metal Box stuff , so i've already seen Poptones , Careering et al slaughtered once. which , as the song says , is enough. hmmmm , Lu. let's look at his CV. the Damned album everyone involved with is deeply ashamed of , the PIL era everyone forgets and the arse end of the Mekons career. hmm , not exactly solid gold. still , to be fair , i had serious doubts about Noko in Magazine and i ate my words there. but seriously the guy i feel sorry for is Kele Oldjoke , who earnt himself a slapping from Lydon's roadcrew for suggesting something pretty similar to what the great man himself has come up with 6 months later. always knew Bloc Party had an original idea in them somewhere ;-) p ________________________________ From: "MarkBursa@aol.com" To: paulrabjohn@btinternet.com; keith.indoorminer@virgin.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Monday, 7 September, 2009 5:49:46 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise Might make a nice pre-Xmas gig though. Never seen any version of PiL, though whether sideman's sideman Lu can handle the Levine bits is another issue. If there are any Levine bits - it's billed as a 30th anniversary Metal Box tour, but sounds like it'll be a greatest hits show. Which probably means the punk's not dead brigade will be out in force... M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:43:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise ________________________________ >>I was at the Wobble interview too, although must have arrived too late for this snippet. Wobble was highly diverting, a real raconteur, which bodes well for the memoir. Amusing slagging off of the World Music scene ("run by privately educated c*nts") and of Lydon's alleged racism ("He's a singer. They're too up themselves to sign up to ideologies"). Or words to that effect.<< I have very deep doubts that John is/was a racist, when I met him there were many young Rastas in the crowd that he warmed to,and when I later spent 3 daze with him in London and, although most of the pubs/clubs we visited were mainstrean white punks on dopevenues, he appeared equally relaxed and friendly with/toward young Black kids on dope as well. just my two pence worth..... A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:30:45 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise >>I have very deep doubts that John is/was a racist, when I met him there were many young Rastas in the crowd that he warmed to,and when I later spent 3 daze with him in London and, although most of the pubs/clubs we visited were mainstrean white punks on dopevenues, he appeared equally relaxed and friendly with/toward young Black kids on dope as well. just my two pence worth..... A<< Pretty easy to confuse misanthropy with something worse. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:40:44 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise >>I was at the Wobble interview too, although must have arrived too late for this snippet. Wobble was highly diverting, a real raconteur, which bodes well for the memoir. Amusing slagging off of the World Music scene ("run by privately educated c*nts") and of Lydon's alleged racism ("He's a singer. They're too up themselves to sign up to ideologies"). << Picked up his book the other day - it's probably as close as you'll get to a reliable PiL memoir. >> Or words to that effect. David Thomas was good in the literature tent too, delivering songs that involved little singing or music and musing about conversing with Bryan Ferry in the rock star retirement home (Ferry will be bragging about getting thousands to sing along with him whereas Thomas won't be able to compete). I'd mention some performances too - The Phantom Band, Grizzly Bear, Trembling Bells and Bon Iver in particular (Wilco played too, but I ducked out to see Hawkwind instead, sorry Ari) - but doubt that too many are interested.<< Suspect the moment may have passed with Wilco. Seem to be heading back to where they were before Jim O'Rourke made them interesting. >>But I will also mention Damo Suzuki at the Offset Festival this past weekend. Over an hour of pyschedelic sonic attack with a bunch of musicians he'd never met before (two of them I suspect from Ipso Facto, who played their last gig at the Festival) << That's a shame. They definitely had something. (And not just the obvious aspect!) The keyboard player is in Florence & the Machine, apparently. So probably not backing the Damster. And the bassist is the daughter of Hilton Valentine out of the Amimals, factoid fans. >>it was as riveting a performance as I've seen in years (Van der Graaf and Wire excepted of course). I've never seen him before now but on this evidence I'll be stalking him. The Japanese continegent were on fine form - Drum Eyes warmed Damo up nicely and Bo Ninjen were flabbergastingly energetic.<< Saw Damo a while back in London where he used the support band (The Early Years, a bunch of Surrey teenagers with a krautrock fixation). Very, very fine. Damo appeared to chant one line for the duration of the set, which was played in front of old videos of Can from German Telly. >>As for PIL live - got momentarily excited until I remembered that I saw them around the 'This is not a Love Song' period and thought they were OK but no more. Doubt that they'll be better this time round.<< That was the LA session lounge band - but Bruce Smith out of the Pop Group is a cut above that. And while Mr Rabjohn may have his doubts about ol' Lu, he's clearly Mr Dependable. Late-period Mekons isn't really my cup of tea either, but it's not without merit. If someone's going to bugger it up it's probably Johnny. M Hey, we've got Idealcopy back! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of keith a Sent: 07 September 2009 20:01 To: MarkBursa@aol.com; paulrabjohn@btinternet.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise SOMEONE ON ANOTHER LIST POSTED THIS... I saw Jah Wobble do a talk at the Green Man festival (one of the highlights) in advance of his forthcoming book (a good read). He said Lydon had called him to ask him to be involved & he'd said yes, however he then went on to say he didn't like the "business" side of things so he bailed out. He also implied that if he was involved he'd want to do things "properly" which would include new material amongst other things ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 17:51:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise ________________________________ >>Pretty easy to confuse misanthropy with something worse. Mark<< True, we never 'really' know what 'anyone' 'really' thinks on any given subject but we can, at times, form a fairly accurate conclusion, and hope our interpretation is so.............. only Johnny knows the real answer and as he's not on the I.C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:44:12 -0500 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise First interesting (albeit non-wire) thread in some time. I agree that Bruce Smith lends weight to a questionable package. I would not be astounded to be pleasantly surprised. On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:40 PM, wrote:... > > Hey, we've got Idealcopy back! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 19:38:40 -0700 From: "bSirius" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise was levine in london cowboys for a millisecond? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David McKenzie" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Disco Rise > First interesting (albeit non-wire) thread in some time. > I agree that Bruce Smith lends weight to a questionable package. > I would not be astounded to be pleasantly surprised. > > > On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:40 PM, wrote:... > >> >> Hey, we've got Idealcopy back! ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V11 #128 ********************************