From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V11 #49 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, March 15 2009 Volume 11 : Number 049 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] tv tonight [Sergey Kazachenko ] re: [idealcopy] disc of the day [cc ] Re: [idealcopy] disc of the day [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] disc of the day ["keith a" ] Re: [idealcopy] disc of the day [cc ] RE: [idealcopy] disc of the day [cc ] Re: [idealcopy] tv tonight [PAUL RABJOHN ] RE: [idealcopy] disc of the day ["keith a" ] Re: [idealcopy] disc of the day [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:21:30 -0400 From: Sergey Kazachenko Subject: Re: [idealcopy] tv tonight > Watch again here: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00j4dx7/Rough_Trade_at_the_BBC/ > > Great stuff, loads of clips i've certainly never seen before and > probably haven't been repeates since first transmitted: > Raincoats, Young Marble Giants, Aztec Camara, Wyatt, Microdisney... > Shame there was no Cabs, Ubu, or Swell Maps etc. Apparently only available in the UK. Any chance someone could download and repost it? May you be forever touched by His Noodly Appendage... ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:48:00 -0700 (PDT) From: cc Subject: re: [idealcopy] disc of the day Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:20:02 -0000 From: "keith a" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] disc of the day It's a 30 yr old album. How many people are going to have original thoughts about it? And what original research would you like? Maybe I should email Graham and ask what colour undies he was wearing when he sang I Should Have Known Better. - --- what an asinine response. You believe that the only possible relevant thoughts about the album were those thought when it was released? You must be just the kind of reader Mojo depends on. as for original research--you know, what nonfiction writers do--do you think this reviewer has even seen Mike Thorne's web page about making the album? More along those lines is what I would be interested in reading. Mind-blowing, isn't it. - - cc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:35:01 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] disc of the day >>what an asinine response. You believe that the only possible relevant thoughts about the album were those thought when it was released? You must be just the kind of reader Mojo depends on. as for original research--you know, what nonfiction writers do--do you think this reviewer has even seen Mike Thorne's web page about making the album? More along those lines is what I would be interested in reading. Mind-blowing, isn't it.<< Sadly, that's not how magazine publishing works. The writer of the Mojo review is either a staff reporter or a freelancer. If he's a staffer, he's got a pile of stuff to work through and certainly hasn't the time to do the sort of research that "nonfiction writers" do. If he's a freelancer, there's no incentive to do that level of research. If he spends all day trawling the web for little detailed snippets, or if he knocks out his impressions off the top of his head, he'll get paid the same fee. So guess what happens? Now, if you're Simon Reynolds or Jon Savage researching a specialised book, then you'll get that level of research. But don't expect it from a general magazine, or its associated web site. You might get lucky if a review is commissioned to a journo who knows the backstory of a particular band or album. But don't bank on it. It's more than likely that the reviewer will be younger than the record he's reviewing. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:33:30 -0000 From: "keith a" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] disc of the day what an asinine response. You believe that the only possible relevant thoughts about the album were those thought when it was released? You must be just the kind of reader Mojo depends on. Not at all. I just think you maybe need to get out more. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:06:24 -0700 (PDT) From: cc Subject: Re: [idealcopy] disc of the day > Sadly, that's not how magazine publishing works. ... thanks, but I understand all that. My point was that I don't understand how a publishing model like this remains viable when great work is done by some fan web sites and when pieces just as good or better than this are written for personal blogs. I don't expect better journalism, I just would have expected bad journalism like this--no more than recycling--to have disappeared by now. but you're probably on to something with the point about the age of the writer. I guess this kind of boilerplate, not to mention the strainingly pretentious tone--you know you're in trouble when 3 words into the article, the writer stops as if to correct himself--might seem fresh to new readers. But if they're too busy to produce substantive articles, why not just reprint the old pieces then? I'm sure even in its lifespan, Mojo has already run a similar "feature" about 154. along the same lines, I first heard the album in about 1995--I'm glad keith a wasn't there to tell me what I was supposed to think of it! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: cc Subject: RE: [idealcopy] disc of the day - --- On Sat, 3/14/09, keith a wrote: > Not at all. I just think you maybe need to get out more. ... says the angry e-mailer. OK. Are you friends with the writer or something? It was nothing personal, he wrote crap because that's his job. It just mystifies me that it's anyone's job at this point. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:42:10 +0000 (GMT) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: Re: [idealcopy] tv tonight well to each his own keith , but i always thought AJ struggled to match 80's marc almond , which is not exactly a ringing endorsement. also a tad mono-faceted but i will concede i've not heard all the new album. just saw a tiny bit of the RT doc , it looked like a load of footage from the old "south bank show" from 79 or thereabouts. looking forward to sitting down and watching it all , like tim said this stuff gets shown very rarely indeed. so did sudden sway make the cut? ;-) p ________________________________ From: Keith Knight To: PAUL RABJOHN ; idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Friday, 13 March, 2009 8:57:03 PM Subject: RE: [idealcopy] tv tonight Hmm, I'm thinking that the Antony & The Johnsons album may be the best thing I've heard so far this year - - but then I haven't heard that much. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of PAUL RABJOHN Sent: 13 March 2009 14:50 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] tv tonight good looking doc on bbc4 tonight ; the story of rough trade followed by a compilation of RT band performances at the beeb. my sources tell me it concentrates on the major Rough Trade acts (smiths , sudden sway , zounds) so should be some good viewing. sadly anthony and the johnsons are also on , but you can't win em all i guess p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:04:09 -0000 From: "keith a" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] disc of the day - -----Original Message----- From: cc [mailto:ccbid@yahoo.com] Sent: 14 March 2009 19:11 To: idealcopy@smoe.org; keith a Subject: RE: [idealcopy] disc of the day - --- On Sat, 3/14/09, keith a wrote: > Not at all. I just think you maybe need to get out more. ... says the angry e-mailer. OK. Are you friends with the writer or something? It was nothing personal, he wrote crap because that's his job. It just mystifies me that it's anyone's job at this point. Angry? What about? Someone who I've never met calling one of my comments 'asinine' when I tried - vainly obviously! - to inject a little humour into a response to your hugely fascinating comments. Look. The hugely popular / mainstream Mojo featured a Wire LP as their disc of the day. As a long time fan of Wire that interested me. Therefore, I figured it might interest some other Wire fans, too. So I shared it with all you lovely people. The review wasn't the best thing I've ever read, but neither was it the worst. It was a little snippet that *might* make a non-Wire fan check them out. As for the writer, he's not my mate, I've never babysat for his pet mice, shagged him, discussed my favourite Sid James moments with him, or tended to his dahlia's. Indeed, I've never even met him. Still, your theory that "he wrote crap because that's his job" is certainly an interesting one. Maybe that's why Dido sings so badly. It's her job... As for your other comment that you "first heard the album in about 1995--I'm glad keith a wasn't there to tell me what I was supposed to think of it!"... well, what a bizarre thing to say! I don't recall trying to tell you what you should think of it now, let alone back then. I just posted a review I came across! Obviously, I'm sorry that I bothered now because I have allowed myself to become embroiled in one of the least interesting arguments known in this Kingdom of Anorakia. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:18:01 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] disc of the day Now Keith Steady on. You are very much appreciated amongst those of us who have been subjected to your various reviews over many years. I, for one have searched out several mentions and suggestions by your good self - even ploughing through copious amounts of Cope (Julian) ! I have to say although I buy The Wire & Q when I am browsing the shelves I sadly rarely get the time to read them through before another issue comes out. Never read MOJO. NP -TV On The Radio - Dear Science ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V11 #49 *******************************