From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V10 #418 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, July 8 2008 Volume 10 : Number 418 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Spam/Re: [idealcopy] New shopping new life [Ari ] [idealcopy] OT: Goats return ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Goats return [Brian Smith ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: ["Glenn Page" ] Fw: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] OT: Tom Disch ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: ["Jon Whitney" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: [Hold ] [idealcopy] Scott Walker to Produce Live Tilt/Drift Shows ["Keith" ] Re: [idealcopy] Scott Walker to Produce Live Tilt/Drift Shows ["David McK] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: [elektrolad ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 03:32:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Spam/Re: [idealcopy] New shopping new life Here's an email I got from Phillip on that subject. Hi Ari (I am sending this from a remote computer- I am scanning my normal computer now). This email appears to be generated by some hijacking program that has harvested my yahoo outbox- some email addresses not used for a year or two. This is despite me having virus software and doing spyware scans regularly----> very worrying and frustrating. Rest assured I didn't generate this email, and wouldn't do so. Not recycling? watch THIS!! http://www.storyofstuff.com/ - ----- Original Message ---- From: elektrolad To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 1:51:12 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] New shopping new life Isn't this spam? e - --- On Sun, 6/7/08, Phillip Blakeney wrote: > From: Phillip Blakeney > Subject: [idealcopy] New shopping new life > To: 2bios@webace.com.au, aklotz@nrg.com.au, "Anthony" , "d chote" , "ideal copy" , "Bart van Damme" , darren@dodo.com.au, evanstim@optusnet.com.au, "Jeanette Glacken" , gplunkett@bigpond.com.au, grifforulz@hotmail.com, joelmelnich@optushome.com.au, "Kim" , magnaboy@westnet.com.au, "Peta" , roger.masters@argylediamonds.com.au, rvmason@optusnet.com.au, sbbs@yahoogroups.com, scottarber@bigpond.com.au, "Shaun" , silbo88@ihug.com.au, steviemidget@yahoo.com.au > Date: Sunday, 6 July, 2008, 11:27 AM > Dear friend, > we are sorry for disturbing you,but we would like to > introduce a good company > who trades mainly in electornic products. > Now the company is under sales promotion,all the products > are sold nearly at > its cost. > They provide the best service to customers,they provide you > with original > products of > goodB quality,and what is more,the price is a surprising > happiness to you! > It is realy a good chance for shopping.just grasp the > opportunity,Now or > never! > The web address: www.cxkeg.com > > > Get the name you always wanted with the > new y7mail email address. > www.yahoo7.com.au/mail __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 06:22:05 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: Spam/Re: [idealcopy] New shopping new life this is the second time i have seen 'new shopping new life' spam i think the last one was on the ymo list http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6132_102-0.html?forumID=32&threadID=277158&messageID=2662296 money quote: "I use gmail, and run a mac book with no anti virus software etc, as i have been told there was no need for it" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:08:33 -0400 From: rose_dan@colstate.edu Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: Object's been up on soulseek for weeks......... - ----- Original Message ----- From: elektrolad Date: Monday, July 7, 2008 1:57 am Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: > --- On Sun, 6/7/08, Glenn Page wrote: > > found this online > > *http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1540578/32025464/* > > > > > > Someone's been VERY naughty... > > > e > > > __________________________________________________________ > Not happy with your email address?. > Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses > available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 10:31:15 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: shhh On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:08 AM, wrote: > Object's been up on soulseek for weeks......... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: elektrolad > Date: Monday, July 7, 2008 1:57 am > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: > >> --- On Sun, 6/7/08, Glenn Page wrote: >> > found this online >> > *http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1540578/32025464/* >> > >> >> >> >> Someone's been VERY naughty... >> >> >> e >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> Not happy with your email address?. >> Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses >> available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:20:29 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Goats return Huge excitement in these parts that BBC 4 have a 'Prog Britannia' in development - looking forward to lengthy interviews with Gnidrolog with a bit of luck. another the Keith [Completely OT - devestated to hear that the great SF author, Thomas M Disch, has committed suicide. One of the most intelligent authors ever to commit to the genre. This news is likely to slip under the radar as he was never a great seller but I know that there are other SF fans here, so thought I'd mention it] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 16:49:41 -0400 From: Brian Smith Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Goats return always excited by new authors (or new to me) and a fan of SF... can you suggest a book for those that do not know his work? thanks brian On Jul 7, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Keith Knight wrote: > Huge excitement in these parts that BBC 4 have a 'Prog Britannia' in > development - looking forward to lengthy interviews with Gnidrolog > with a > bit of luck. > > another the Keith > > > [Completely OT - devestated to hear that the great SF author, Thomas M > Disch, has committed suicide. One of the most intelligent authors > ever to > commit to the genre. This news is likely to slip under the radar as > he was > never a great seller but I know that there are other SF fans here, so > thought I'd mention it] "Everything I'm going to tell you tonight is true, except the part about the banana sticking to the wall." Spalding Gray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:40:40 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: Well, since i stupidly got all excited and "pre-ordered" on Friday night only to realise its in my local shops now. (I presumed the release date had been put back to 15th...thats what it says on Amazon.uk) Not been dispatched yet so I probably won't get it for a few days I think i'm gonna resort to downloading cos I wanna hear it now!!!! I have paid for it after all. David McKenzie wrote: > shhh > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:08 AM, wrote: >> Object's been up on soulseek for weeks......... >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: elektrolad >> Date: Monday, July 7, 2008 1:57 am >> Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: >> >>> --- On Sun, 6/7/08, Glenn Page wrote: >>>> found this online >>>> *http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1540578/32025464/* >>>> >>> >>> >>> Someone's been VERY naughty... >>> >>> >>> e >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> Not happy with your email address?. >>> Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses >>> available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 14:53:09 -0700 From: "Glenn Page" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: Do most people agree that it is ok to download from the internet, products that you own on LP's and Cassettes? I mean to replace them with digital? Just wanted to hear what people think. Glenn P On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Tim wrote: > Well, since i stupidly got all excited and "pre-ordered" on Friday night > only to realise its in my local shops now. (I presumed the release date had > been put back to 15th...thats what it says on Amazon.uk) > > Not been dispatched yet so I probably won't get it for a few days I think > i'm gonna resort to downloading cos I wanna hear it now!!!! I have paid for > it after all. > > > > > > > David McKenzie wrote: > >> shhh >> >> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:08 AM, wrote: >> >>> Object's been up on soulseek for weeks......... >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: elektrolad >>> Date: Monday, July 7, 2008 1:57 am >>> Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: >>> >>> --- On Sun, 6/7/08, Glenn Page wrote: >>>> >>>>> found this online >>>>> *http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1540578/32025464/* >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Someone's been VERY naughty... >>>> >>>> >>>> e >>>> >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> Not happy with your email address?. >>>> Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses >>>> available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 15:08:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Fw: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: Do most people agree that it is ok to download from the internet, products that you own on LP's and Cassettes? I mean to replace them with digital? Just wanted to hear what people think. Glenn P /new.html i.m.h.o it 'should' be perfectly legit if you already own it in a different format. I have 'transfered' stuff I have on L.P or cassette to c.d if the product wasn't released in c.d format, likewise with movies/music video's recorded from t.v.that are unavailable. There was a time I used bittorrents to download movies but these days I only download unavailable/not yet released on dvd (and lots won't be, too narrow an audience) or t.v concerts that rarely, if ever, get released on a commercial basis. That's my 154 cents worth anyway. Ari ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:11:53 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: >>Do most people agree that it is ok to download from the internet, products that you own on LP's and Cassettes? I mean to replace them with digital? Just wanted to hear what people think.<< The music industry did itself no favours by promising CD as a "better" format than vinyl, but issuing countless shoddy releases - necessiatating "remastered" premium-priced versions of the same albums. If you've bought a copy of an album, it should be tantamount to a user's licence for the music contained on it. So a free download of MP3s of an album you own on vinyl, for example, shouldn't be classed as illegal. The Man doesn't agree with this POV, however... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 00:16:19 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Tom Disch [Apologies to anyone not interested - please delete] Disch was one of the leading lights of SF in the 60s and 70s, a figure connected to the New Wave which revolutionised SF from the mid-60s onwards. As a result - i.e. his peak was over 30 years ago and he was a tough read then - he has been only occasionally in print ever since. But the best novels to my mind would be 'Camp Concentration', 'On Wings of Song' and '334' (the latter is more of a short-story 'fix-up' - i.e. connected short stories in the same place - than a 'proper' novel). He was a tremendous short story writer, best shown in the collection 'Getting Into Death' (sadly long out of print). He somewhat oddly wrote 'The Brave Little Toaster' which became a Disney cartoon and also had a minor best seller in the 80s with 'The MD', a horror novel. In his latter years he wrote more poetry than fiction and a critique of Sf which regarded it as a branch of children's literature (Disch was always somewhat compromised by his association with the genre). By all accounts a formidably unpleasant man in his later years especially, his best work is for me up there with the best. To quote his friend John Clute: "Because of his intellectual audacity, the chillingly distant mannerism of his narrative art, the austerity of the pleasures he affords, and the fine cruelty of his wit, Thomas M. Disch has been perhaps the most respected, least trusted, most envied and least read of all modern first-rank SF writers." As usual Clute nails it. I'm off to reread '334'. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: Brian Smith [mailto:bnemba@comcast.net] Sent: 07 July 2008 21:50 To: Keith Knight Cc: Idealcopy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Goats return always excited by new authors (or new to me) and a fan of SF... can you suggest a book for those that do not know his work? thanks brian On Jul 7, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Keith Knight wrote: > Huge excitement in these parts that BBC 4 have a 'Prog Britannia' in > development - looking forward to lengthy interviews with Gnidrolog > with a > bit of luck. > > another the Keith > > > [Completely OT - devestated to hear that the great SF author, Thomas M > Disch, has committed suicide. One of the most intelligent authors > ever to > commit to the genre. This news is likely to slip under the radar as > he was > never a great seller but I know that there are other SF fans here, so > thought I'd mention it] "Everything I'm going to tell you tonight is true, except the part about the banana sticking to the wall." Spalding Gray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:47:15 -0400 From: "Jon Whitney" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: Historians will look back at the 20th century as the only century where businesses could make money off the sale of other peoples' music and the artists didn't have a right to their own recordings. Honestly people like Colin and Wire are smart for realizing things like this and taking their own music and releasing on their own without having to deal with the added levels of mess that a record label has. So of course the record labels are bombarding you with propaganda that says "downloading is evil" but they themselves aren't paying their acts fairly, writing contracts fairly, or issuing publishing royalties fairly. If the musician is in control of the recording they can manufacture it themselves, distribute it online and in person at performances, etc,... I think the more people who download something the more likely they will be to attend a show by that act and hopefully buy nice pretty vinyl from the merch table! Your hard disk is only a finite size and it won't last the 20-40 years a slab of wax will. On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 7:11 PM, wrote: >>>Do most people agree that it is ok to download from the internet, products > that you own on LP's and Cassettes? > I mean to replace them with digital? > > Just wanted to hear what people think.<< > > > The music industry did itself no favours by promising CD as a "better" > format than vinyl, but issuing countless shoddy releases - necessiatating > "remastered" premium-priced versions of the same albums. > > If you've bought a copy of an album, it should be tantamount to a user's > licence for the music contained on it. So a free download of MP3s of an album > you own on vinyl, for example, shouldn't be classed as illegal. > > The Man doesn't agree with this POV, however... > > > Mark > - -- Brainwashed Inc: brainwashed.com | Brainwashed Recordings | Killer Pimp Music | Brainwaves 2008 Festival P.O. Box 7 / Arlington, MA 02476 / USA streaming radio  podcasts  reviews  store  music fests ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:30:19 -0400 From: Hold Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: Every time a new more consumer-friendly format arrives, the entertainment conglomerates start spouting dire warnings. From sheet music to vinyl to cassettes (remember the old "home taping is killing music" album dust sleeves in the 70s?) to CDs, the arrival of home video then DVD (both of which were supposed to "kill" the film industry...both of which saved it), anything that allows the user to choose how, when & where to enjoy product has the money men (and their lawyers) beating it down as best they can. > > Saying that, it's the "little" bands that continue to be hurt...even now. > No, I don't believe the downloaders are "for the most part" buying the > product or attending the shows (after downloading). MySpace and Blog > phenomena only take you so far, and without a real sustained income these > bands will fail. Are those tour t-shirts really going to pay for recording > and issuing costs (not to mention the realities of rent & food & etc)? Even > in the digital world? > > Steven > > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 8:47 PM, Jon Whitney wrote: > >> Historians will look back at the 20th century as the only century >> where businesses could make money off the sale of other peoples' music >> and the artists didn't have a right to their own recordings. Honestly >> people like Colin and Wire are smart for realizing things like this >> and taking their own music and releasing on their own without having >> to deal with the added levels of mess that a record label has. So of >> course the record labels are bombarding you with propaganda that says >> "downloading is evil" but they themselves aren't paying their acts >> fairly, writing contracts fairly, or issuing publishing royalties >> fairly. If the musician is in control of the recording they can >> manufacture it themselves, distribute it online and in person at >> performances, etc,... >> >> I think the more people who download something the more likely they >> will be to attend a show by that act and hopefully buy nice pretty >> vinyl from the merch table! >> >> Your hard disk is only a finite size and it won't last the 20-40 years >> a slab of wax will. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 7:11 PM, wrote: >> >>>Do most people agree that it is ok to download from the internet, >> products >> > that you own on LP's and Cassettes? >> > I mean to replace them with digital? >> > >> > Just wanted to hear what people think.<< >> > >> > >> > The music industry did itself no favours by promising CD as a "better" >> > format than vinyl, but issuing countless shoddy releases - >> necessiatating >> > "remastered" premium-priced versions of the same albums. >> > >> > If you've bought a copy of an album, it should be tantamount to a user's >> > licence for the music contained on it. So a free download of MP3s of an >> album >> > you own on vinyl, for example, shouldn't be classed as illegal. >> > >> > The Man doesn't agree with this POV, however... >> > >> > >> > Mark >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Brainwashed Inc: >> brainwashed.com | Brainwashed Recordings | Killer Pimp Music | >> Brainwaves 2008 Festival >> P.O. Box 7 / Arlington, MA 02476 / USA >> streaming radio podcasts reviews store music fests >> > > > > -- > www.myspace.com/factus2 > www.myspace.com/holdnyc - -- www.myspace.com/factus2 www.myspace.com/holdnyc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 23:15:09 +0100 From: "Keith" Subject: [idealcopy] Scott Walker to Produce Live Tilt/Drift Shows Though he's not performing! http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/141845-scott-walker-to-produce-li ve-tilt-drift-shows ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:52:36 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: ctually, i would say that the sky actually has fallen on the music industry with a few exceptions like Disney (whose prime demographic is prevented from illegal downloads by paranoid parents) major labels are substantially dead. industry wide sales have been in decline worldwide for several years, and the US economic downturn is not going to so much to help. and in my humble opinion Good Fucking Riddance the bastard progeny of Robert Stigwood is extinct and the world will ahve to figure out what the next beig thing (TM) is without the assistance of the cocaine addled hydra in LA i see the model for artists to produce and (relatively) directly distribute their own works is an extension of selling recordings at shows - not a huge volume producer, but substantially more than a handful of 'points' making it's way back to the artists although a sizable portion of the population leeches/steals, the remaining portion of the population's contributions find their way back to the artist with less 'grabbing hands'. as for the little bands - they will have to make due without the sharecropper advance system which seldom resulted in anything other than massive profits for the labels and ultimate bankruptcy by the artists ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:53:24 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Scott Walker to Produce Live Tilt/Drift Shows I'm not certain what the point would be > Though he's not performing! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:06:07 -0700 (PDT) From: elektrolad Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: Yes! - --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Glenn Page wrote: > From: Glenn Page > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: > To: "Tim" > Cc: "David McKenzie" , idealcopy@smoe.org > Date: Monday, 7 July, 2008, 5:53 PM > Do most people agree that it is ok to download from the > internet, products > that you own on LP's and Cassettes? > I mean to replace them with digital? > > Just wanted to hear what people think. > > Glenn P > > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Tim > wrote: > > > Well, since i stupidly got all excited and > "pre-ordered" on Friday night > > only to realise its in my local shops now. (I > presumed the release date had > > been put back to 15th...thats what it says on > Amazon.uk) > > > > Not been dispatched yet so I probably won't get it > for a few days I think > > i'm gonna resort to downloading cos I wanna hear > it now!!!! I have paid for > > it after all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David McKenzie wrote: > > > >> shhh > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:08 AM, > wrote: > >> > >>> Object's been up on soulseek for > weeks......... > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: elektrolad > >>> Date: Monday, July 7, 2008 1:57 am > >>> Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Torrent say: > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 6/7/08, Glenn Page > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> found this online > >>>>> > *http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1540578/32025464/* > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Someone's been VERY naughty... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> e > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > __________________________________________________________ > >>>> Not happy with your email address?. > >>>> Get the one you really want - millions of > new email addresses > >>>> available now at Yahoo! > http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V10 #418 ********************************