From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V10 #154 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, August 2 2007 Volume 10 : Number 154 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP [MarkBursa@aol.com] Fwd: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Emailing: home ["Keith A" ] Re: [idealcopy] Emailing: home [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP ["Keith A" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:16:08 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP On 8/1/07, CHRISWIRE@aol.com wrote: > Yes a great loss both directors departing. Isn't it sad though that I > probably have more recall of Mike Reads' legacy especially those classic Comedians > shows! > I must see more of Bergmans work although I know theres not alot of belly > laughs in there. > That depends - in most of Bergman's work in the 50's you'll always have some great comic moments and very lively characters, even in the Seventh Seal. But even his gloomiest and darkest later films are mostly masterpieces - though some of them leave you with a deep sense of existential despair, they are so brilliant and innovative they never leave you with a sense of despair. Bergman even direct a few comedies at the start of his career. The film that I think combines both his flair for comedy and his philosophical ideas about death, art and the artist's place in the world, etc., is 1958's the Magician (in the UK it was called the Face, while in Israel they combined both names with Magician's Face) - not a masterpiece like 7th Seal or others, but still highly enjoyable. As to Antonioni, i once read that he wanted the Velvet Underground to play in the famous gig scene in Blow-Up and the Who were a compromise when that didn't work out. Does anyone know if this a myth? giluz - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:15:00 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP >>As to Antonioni, i once read that he wanted the Velvet Underground to play in the famous gig scene in Blow-Up and the Who were a compromise when that didn't work out. Does anyone know if this a myth?<< Er.... I think he wanted the Who but settled for the Yardbirds. Hence Jeff Beck's guitar-smashing. Blow-up is the only footage of the Beck/Page line-up of the Yardbirds (the line-up that made Happenings 10 years time ago, a contender for best Brit psych single). VU would have been difficult to arrange for a London-based film - the Velvets didn't make it to Britain until the Doug Yule version toured in 1971! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:10:06 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Fwd: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP - -Ooops silly me. yardbirds of course. Read about it the Velvets and antonioni in Bockris and Malnga's Uptight. This from Wikipedia: "The film contains appearances from various famous people of the day, and some people who would become famous later. In a scene near the end, The Yardbirds perform, Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck play side by side until Beck smashes his guitar ` la The Who. Michael Palin of Monty Python's Flying Circus fame can be seen very briefly in the crowd in this scene, and future media personality Janet Street-Porter can be seen dancing in stripey trousers. Antonioni had considered using the bands Tomorrow, He also considered The Velvet Underground, but guitarist Sterling Morrison's drug convictions prevented the band from getting work permits in the United Kingdom" giluz On 8/1/07, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > >>As to Antonioni, i once read that he wanted the Velvet Underground to > play in the famous gig scene in Blow-Up and the Who were a compromise > when that didn't work out. Does anyone know if this a myth?<< > > > Er.... > > I think he wanted the Who but settled for the Yardbirds. Hence Jeff Beck's > guitar-smashing. > > Blow-up is the only footage of the Beck/Page line-up of the Yardbirds (the > line-up that made Happenings 10 years time ago, a contender for best Brit > psych single). > > VU would have been difficult to arrange for a London-based film - the > Velvets didn't make it to Britain until the Doug Yule version toured in > 1971! > > Mark > > > > > > - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:17:47 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP > Er.... > > I think he wanted the Who but settled for the Yardbirds. Hence Jeff > Beck's > guitar-smashing. > > Blow-up is the only footage of the Beck/Page line-up of the Yardbirds > (the > line-up that made Happenings 10 years time ago, a contender for best Brit > psych single). > > VU would have been difficult to arrange for a London-based film - the > Velvets didn't make it to Britain until the Doug Yule version toured in > 1971! > Well -according to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blow-up "In a scene near the end, The Yardbirds perform, Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck play side by side until Beck smashes his guitar ` la The Who. Michael Palin of Monty Python's Flying Circus fame can be seen very briefly in the crowd in this scene,[citation needed] and future media personality Janet Street-Porter can be seen dancing in stripey trousers." "Antonioni had considered using the bands Tomorrow,[citation needed] He also considered The Velvet Underground, but guitarist Sterling Morrison's drug convictions prevented the band from getting work permits in the United Kingdom.[1]" Wikipedia can sometimes be unreliable, but there's a reference cited for the Velvet Underground, so I think they're somewhat on the level with this story. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:25:45 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP Heh heh - oops! (^_^) Please ignore my other e-mail! Looks like great minds cite alike! (^_^) Cheers, Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "giluz" To: "Idealcopy" Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:10 AM Subject: Fwd: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP > -Ooops silly me. yardbirds of course. Read about it the Velvets and > antonioni in Bockris and Malnga's Uptight. This from Wikipedia: > > "The film contains appearances from various famous people of the day, > and some people who would become famous later. > In a scene near the end, The Yardbirds perform, Jimmy Page and Jeff > Beck play side by side until Beck smashes his guitar ` la The Who. > Michael Palin of Monty Python's Flying Circus fame can be seen very > briefly in the crowd in this scene, and future media personality Janet > Street-Porter can be seen dancing in stripey trousers. > Antonioni had considered using the bands Tomorrow, He also considered > The Velvet Underground, but guitarist Sterling Morrison's drug > convictions prevented the band from getting work permits in the United > Kingdom" > > giluz > > On 8/1/07, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >>As to Antonioni, i once read that he wanted the Velvet Underground to >> play in the famous gig scene in Blow-Up and the Who were a compromise >> when that didn't work out. Does anyone know if this a myth?<< >> >> >> Er.... >> >> I think he wanted the Who but settled for the Yardbirds. Hence Jeff >> Beck's >> guitar-smashing. >> >> Blow-up is the only footage of the Beck/Page line-up of the Yardbirds >> (the >> line-up that made Happenings 10 years time ago, a contender for best Brit >> psych single). >> >> VU would have been difficult to arrange for a London-based film - the >> Velvets didn't make it to Britain until the Doug Yule version toured in >> 1971! >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Now playing: > http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ > > > -- > Now playing: > http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:50:43 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP >>Wikipedia can sometimes be unreliable, << Understatement of the day!!!! >>but there's a reference cited for the Velvet Underground, so I think they're somewhat on the level with this story.<< This is Victor Bockris' Lou Reed biog, in which he claims Warhol turned own the request. I guess Antonioni would have known Warhol, and could have made the connection... Still strikes me as historical revisionism - even from Reed & Bockris. Blow-up pre-dates The Velvet Underground and Nico, so the Velvets would be even less well-known at the time. Hard to imagine the Velvets in the Blow-up scene - it's such a Swinging London film, and they'd look very out of place now - though probably not at the time! Context is everything.... It'd be nice to have had some 1966 colour film of the Velvets playing though! Don't know why Tomorrow missed out though - they even had a song called Blow-up! Poor old Steve Howe could have been associated with something cool! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 19:29:03 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP On 8/1/07, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Still strikes me as historical revisionism - even from Reed & Bockris. > Blow-up pre-dates The Velvet Underground and Nico, so the Velvets would be > even less well-known at the time. Velvets started performing sometime in 1965 and recorded their first album in 1966, so they were of that time. Same book also mentions the Velvets toying with the idea of moving to Europe/London, where the audience was said to be more receptive and open to new sounds. giluz - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:01:05 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP >>Velvets started performing sometime in 1965 and recorded their first album in 1966,<< But it wasn't released until after Blow-up was released. And I can't quite work out why a 50-something Italian film director would have specifically wanted to cast an obscure American band that had never played in Europe and had made no records. Unless he'd seen them live and was smitten by them - unlikely but possible I guess if he'd been to a Warhol party. A more likely scenario is that Warhol heard at a party that Antonioni wanted to cast a rock band in his new film, and put the VU forward, but got turned down, probably for logistics reasons (film budget not stretching to plane tickets, Sterling's alleged drugs rap etc). Vic & Lou have turned this into a hipster myth that the VU was Antonioni's first choice. IMO, of course! Antonioni probably didn't care who the band was - he just wanted to depict an undergound scene involving a dramatic axe-smashing incident. Given that requirement, surely the Who was the obvious choice? Failing that, a similar band prepared to do a Who impersonation? John Cale was a few years off his 70s piano-smashing and chicken-beheading pomp at that point. Likewise Lou and his tai-chi master, which would have had less dramatic effect ;-) Mark, (cynical as ever about "rock mythology!") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:00:05 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: [idealcopy] Emailing: home Blimey. Posteverything has changed a bit hasn't it? I've just logged on and...well as Morrissey once said after seeing James = on Wogan, "I nearly dropped the teapot". Very nice, mind. Just not as distinctive. And at my time of life, I'm = not very good with change! ; ) Keith NP The new free with the newspaper Prince cd. Funny - I made the effort = to buy the Mail On Sunday especially for it a couple of weeks back, and = then haven't bothered playing it till now. First play...Better than I = expected if I'm honest. =20 =20 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link = attachments: Shortcut to: http://www.posteverything.com/home Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent = sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your = e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of home.url] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 19:22:15 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Emailing: home >>Blimey. Posteverything has changed a bit hasn't it?<< Eeuw. I can only gues there is some practical reason for this as it certainly ain't for aesthetic reasons :-( Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 22:54:04 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ingmar Bergman RIP > That Notwist LP is great Keith. Certainly is. Really seeped through after a few plays. I read somewhere that Colin is a fan, too. > Tarwater has been off the menu.I have not played them in a while.I have > Sil > ur somewhere and will dig it out. Yeah, I like Silur a lot. You can imagine how pleased I was as a Bolan fan when the opening track Visit started and I realised that they were singing (well, speaking!) the lyrics to The Visit off the T.Rex LP! My fave of their albums though is probably Animals, Suns & Atoms, which like Neon Golden is among my favourite records since the turn of the century. I'm not saying Spider Smile is as good as that, but it's definitely one of the best releases of the year for me. I know there was a feeling in some quarters that it was just another Tarwater album, and admittedly they've not taken any huge leap from their sound with album, but as I said it's proving to be a real grower. K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:12:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Emailing: home Looks like a tabloid if y'ask me (not that anyone did)........... A Governments always take what was never given,and never give what was taken. - ----- Original Message ---- From: Keith A To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:00:05 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Emailing: home Blimey. Posteverything has changed a bit hasn't it? I've just logged on and...well as Morrissey once said after seeing James = on Wogan, "I nearly dropped the teapot". Very nice, mind. Just not as distinctive. And at my time of life, I'm = not very good with change! ; ) Keith NP The new free with the newspaper Prince cd. Funny - I made the effort = to buy the Mail On Sunday especially for it a couple of weeks back, and = then haven't bothered playing it till now. First play...Better than I = expected if I'm honest. =20 =20 The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link = attachments: Shortcut to: http://www.posteverything.com/home Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent = sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your = e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of home.url] _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V10 #154 ********************************