From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V10 #134 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, July 5 2007 Volume 10 : Number 134 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP ["David McKenzie" ] RE: [idealcopy] Re: we're all devo ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: we're all devo / French 'art' movies ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] [idealcopy] 128kbps AAC, MP3, etc. ["Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP Just so we are clear here, I do not think that fidelity, bitrate, format, etc are relevant to the fundamental problem that there is nothing really enticing for the historic 'album consumer' This is a HUGE problem for the artists. Consumers who formerly would have bought singles now buy them happily from iTunes, etc. Even more happily, because they can pick their own singles, not the ones some promotions flack's choice. And the fidelity, permanence qualities of mp3 are fine for that consumer. (Collector's editions are an unfortunate side issue) But those of us who spent inordinate hours, days, years in record shops (and in the vinyl age, lovingly observed ritualistic disc and stylis cleaning) have no replacement. IMHO $10 for inferior quality limited digital rights is a poor substitute for and tactile experience. But that is largely due to a lack of creative marketing. I use the term marketing in the academic sense to refer to the entire practice of packaging, promoting and delivering content in a manner which optimizes consumer need fulfillment. Clearly there are needs unfulfilled, and free downloads fill only part of the need. The challenge is to adequately fulfill the entire need using current technology. Tim's suggestion that you could purchase digital material in a store could be an approach, or at least part of one. Other things could be digital easter eggs only available for purchase. Maybe you only rights manage the bonus tracks. Home taping didn't kill music , as predicted. In fact, pre-digital sharing in the form of home mix-tapes was free promotion which aided sales. Some quantity of singles sales were lost, but those were loss leaders anyways. File sharing offers unbounded promotional potential. The problem is that there is not a product to promote. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:22:48 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: we're all devo >>>>last week i bought a really good 2cd anthology "pioneers who got scalped" which has about 4/5 tracks off each album plus lots of rarities , cost me #8 on ebay. sounds really good , and would be a good place to start for anyone who thought they lost it after the first album.<<<< I also paid 8gbp for my copy a few years ago and, yes, the sound quality can't be faulted. The second disc (of later stuff) ain't as good as the first, though! www.thisisnorthcliffe.co.uk Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software. Warning: Computer viruses may be transmitted or downloaded onto any computer system via e-mail communication. It is the recipientbs responsibility to take appropriate action to prevent computer viruses being transmitted In this way. Accordingly Northcliffe Media Ltd disclaim all responsibility which arises directly or indirectly from such transmission of computer viruses. Northcliffe Media Ltd. Registered Office: Northcliffe Accounting Centre, PO Box 6795 St George Street, Leicester, LE1 1ZP, co no 272225, Registered in England and Wales, VAT no 243571174. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 20:48:35 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: [idealcopy] OT The Kids Tim's band Kids Indestructible namechecked in a local free music mag in a brief article about the proliferation of the word kid(s) in band names - though mentioned as a Leeds band!?! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 20:03:10 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: we're all devo / French 'art' movies I stuck with Devo's diminishing returns up to Oh No It's Devo, by which point, barring a couple of half decent tracks, they'd begun to sound like just another band, no matter how much theorising they tried to spin around the music. But I daresay I'd moved on anyway as this was between the ages of approx 12-16. I'm not sure I've even heard any of the subsequent albums in their entirety. Hardcore Vols 1 and 2 yielded a few 'Sound of Things Falling Apart' gems; and the post the other day was the first I'd heard of Recombo DNA, which sounds potentially interesting. As for the first two albums being 'of a piece' it's true that they were very much dividing up available material for albums 1 and 2, but yet they still have a very different feel to them. Can't quite place why (more synths perhaps) and I loved DNFTF at the time, but it just sounded dreary the other day. I'm not sure any amount of remastering could lift it much higher. And yes, the 2-lps-on-one can be got pretty cheap, but the packaging is a massive let-down. (on the subject of 'pretty cheap' HMV is currently pricing the remastered Pink Flag at #8.00, whilst CM and 154 are still being touted at #13) I caught a brief glimpse of Dev2O singing Whip It on the box a few weeks back and it looked appalling. No idea what the market for that kind of thing might be. As for offers to tape Histoire Naturelle on TV5, many thanks guys. I tried to track down the listings on the web but to no avail. No matter, I might have another lead. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL RABJOHN" To: "Michael Halsted" ; Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: we're all devo > well the 2-lps-on-one-cd isseus they've done are certainly very cheap (#5 in fopp.....) but i've still just got the original albums on vinyl. last week i bought a really good 2cd anthology "pioneers who got scalped" which has about 4/5 tracks off each album plus lots of rarities , cost me #8 on ebay. sounds really good , and would be a good place to start for anyone who thought they lost it after the first album. > > i've never heard devo 2.0. sounded a pretty devo idea to me though.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 21:22:12 +0100 (BST) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: we're all devo / French 'art' movies i'd agree "oh no its devo" is the last one really worth having , the mid-80's albums (freedom of choice / new traditionalists / oh no) all have a few good tracks but they're a bit "samey" with a lot of filler , like a lot of 80's synth bands there seemed to be a real problem differentiating all the tracks (hi barney). i bought hardcore vols 1&2 , which are ok in places (and seem to be worth loads now). not got this "recombo DNA" one , nor the "Mongoloid Years" (again , that seems to sell for a fortune now). these are all i guess early demos / rehearsals drip-fed out while the band were on hiatus. well in hmv solihull (my new lunchtime haunt post-fopp) pink flag is #6 but no others in stock. p Ian B wrote: I stuck with Devo's diminishing returns up to Oh No It's Devo, by which point, barring a couple of half decent tracks, they'd begun to sound like just another band, no matter how much theorising they tried to spin around the music. But I daresay I'd moved on anyway as this was between the ages of approx 12-16. I'm not sure I've even heard any of the subsequent albums in their entirety. Hardcore Vols 1 and 2 yielded a few 'Sound of Things Falling Apart' gems; and the post the other day was the first I'd heard of Recombo DNA, which sounds potentially interesting. As for the first two albums being 'of a piece' it's true that they were very much dividing up available material for albums 1 and 2, but yet they still have a very different feel to them. Can't quite place why (more synths perhaps) and I loved DNFTF at the time, but it just sounded dreary the other day. I'm not sure any amount of remastering could lift it much higher. And yes, the 2-lps-on-one can be got pretty cheap, but the packaging is a massive let-down. (on the subject of 'pretty cheap' HMV is currently pricing the remastered Pink Flag at #8.00, whilst CM and 154 are still being touted at #13) I caught a brief glimpse of Dev2O singing Whip It on the box a few weeks back and it looked appalling. No idea what the market for that kind of thing might be. As for offers to tape Histoire Naturelle on TV5, many thanks guys. I tried to track down the listings on the web but to no avail. No matter, I might have another lead. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL RABJOHN" To: "Michael Halsted" ; Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: we're all devo > well the 2-lps-on-one-cd isseus they've done are certainly very cheap (#5 in fopp.....) but i've still just got the original albums on vinyl. last week i bought a really good 2cd anthology "pioneers who got scalped" which has about 4/5 tracks off each album plus lots of rarities , cost me #8 on ebay. sounds really good , and would be a good place to start for anyone who thought they lost it after the first album. > > i've never heard devo 2.0. sounded a pretty devo idea to me though.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 23:53:43 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP > I'm all for this, but mp3 is not the format. > I'm currently ripping just about everything to play on > the ipod at work, but, alas I only have 30G. So I > switch out a lot. Hear hear! I'm not a fan of MP3 at all. I find the iTunes/PSP MP4 format (also known as AAC) much superior - especially at 128kbps. Note: iTunes calls it .m4a by default - but that's just a naming convention - internally they're MP4. You can rename your MP4 to M4A and vice versa. Are you using MP3 for your iPod? If you are, you should switch to AAC - it sounds better - especially in treble. Also - if you're using an ancient version of iTunes/QuickTime, you should upgrade. The AAC encoder has improved by leaps and bounds since the early versions. Of course - I'm not sure how compatible AAC is with older iPods. I know that iTunes used to use MP3 before they upgraded the software and hardware to use MP4. And, of course - none of these are lossless formats. Lossless compression formats include include Windows Media Lossless and there's an Apple one as well. These sound identical to the original CD - but the file sizes are still huge compared to the heavily compressed files. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:09:46 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FOPP RIPP > Apple, of course, want people to buy their aac files. At least MP3s can be > played back on just about anything digital audio player and do sound > pretty > good to my ears... > One clarification about this. AAC is not Apple specific. AAC is actually MPEG MP4 audio. PSPs can play them, for example. (I think Zune's can as well - (^_^)) And, as I've said before, I prefer AAC to MP3 for similar bitrates. And - you don't have to buy them. iTunes, Nero Digital and many other programs will encode AAC audio - there's even open source encoders that can do it. If more manufacturers stepped up to the technological challenge, we could all enjoy them. That was one of the main reasons I originally bought a PSP - AAC compatibility. (Also the AVC video compatibility - aka MP4 Level 10 or H264. PSP has *hardware* playback of these formats - much smoother than the iPod's software decoder) Now DRM encyrpted AAC - that's a totally different ball of wax. That's Apple's baby all the way. But - standard, unencrypted AAC - that iTunes can encode? Believe it or not, that's an international MPEG standard. It's just up to you, the consumer, to demand that manufacturers support it. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:19:53 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] 128kbps AAC, MP3, etc. Hi everyone, By the way - if you're curious about 128 kbps comparisons, surf here: http://www.rjamorim.com/test/128extension/results.html His main page is here: http://www.rjamorim.com/test/index.html Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:40:36 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: 128kbps AAC, MP3, etc. Hi everyone, Okay - it looks like this gentleman hasn't updated his webpage/tests in a long time. Still - there's some good info in here: The last 128kbps comparison is here: http://www.rjamorim.com/test/multiformat128/results.html Ogg Vorbis is the best, but AAC isn't too far behind. And - that's using iTunes 4.2 - which is quite old. iTunes is up to 7.3 now (I think). More modern tests show AAC doing quite well against Ogg, etc. Example here: http://members.chello.nl/~m.heijligers/ipod/Compression/compression.html Cheers, Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Pietromonaco" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:19 AM Subject: 128kbps AAC, MP3, etc. > Hi everyone, > > By the way - if you're curious about 128 kbps comparisons, surf here: > http://www.rjamorim.com/test/128extension/results.html > > His main page is here: > http://www.rjamorim.com/test/index.html > > > Cheers, > Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V10 #134 ********************************