From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V10 #12 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, January 26 2007 Volume 10 : Number 012 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] todd [PAUL RABJOHN ] Re: [idealcopy] todd ["David McKenzie" ] RE: [idealcopy] todd ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] todd ["Graeme's_Ghost" ] Re: [idealcopy] todd [Derek White ] RE: [idealcopy] todd ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] todd [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] todd [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] todd ["Graeme's_Ghost" ] Re: [idealcopy] todd ["Graeme's_Ghost" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:07:07 +0000 (GMT) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: [idealcopy] todd well my local branch of Fopp has a big pile of cd's for a quid so i took a punt on a few , including "liars" by todd rundgren (sadly not a liars album which would have been money very well spent). now i recall some discussion of this album on here a year or so ago , but i can't recall the details. sure he has some fans in the IC massive anyway. now i don't want to be harsh , but this has got to be the worst thing i've bought in ages. horrible parpy lightweight funk , made me think of a steely dan pub tribute band. dire. does anyone here rate this stuff? that's the first TR cd i own ; is this typical of his recent stuff or was this some sort of one-off "concept"? i thought he might be worth a listen but its just a complete let-down. also maybe the worst sleeve of the century so far. if anyone has a burining desire to own this disc , no reasonable trade offer refused. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:00:29 -0600 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd I think the California Rasins' Blues Brothers tribute might be an equal exchange. And I do rate a few Todd albums pretty high. A Wizard, A True Star, Something/Anything, Todd and The Hermit of Mink Hollow come to mind. Of course the latter two have some sketchy spots. On 1/25/07, PAUL RABJOHN wrote: > > well my local branch of Fopp has a big pile of cd's for a quid so i took a > punt on a few , including "liars" by todd rundgren (sadly not a liars album > which would have been money very well spent). now i recall some discussion > of this album on here a year or so ago , but i can't recall the details. > sure he has some fans in the IC massive anyway. > > now i don't want to be harsh , but this has got to be the worst thing i've > bought in ages. horrible parpy lightweight funk , made me think of a steely > dan pub tribute band. dire. does anyone here rate this stuff? that's the > first TR cd i own ; is this typical of his recent stuff or was this some > sort of one-off "concept"? i thought he might be worth a listen but its just > a complete let-down. also maybe the worst sleeve of the century so far. > > if anyone has a burining desire to own this disc , no reasonable trade > offer refused. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:42:23 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] todd Saw this in Fopp yesterday too but decided not to buy any of the #1ers - probably a good decision on this basis. I had gone in to buy the new Alasdair Roberts but didn't as it was #12, a couple of quid more than I intended to spend on it. So ended up buying '30 Years of Rough Trade Shops' for #8, Joni Mitchell's Travelogue for a fiver and Only Angels Have wings for #3 (Howard Hawks & Cary Grant - what more do you want from a film?). So for the sake of saving a couple of quid on a CD I wanted I ended up spending #16 on stuff I had no intention of buying. Ah, the Fopp effect. Was tempted to buy the Martin Hannett compilation for a fiver but I figured I already had half of it - but the more I think about it the more I think I should have added it to the pile... Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of PAUL RABJOHN Sent: 25 January 2007 17:07 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] todd well my local branch of Fopp has a big pile of cd's for a quid so i took a punt on a few , including "liars" by todd rundgren (sadly not a liars album which would have been money very well spent). now i recall some discussion of this album on here a year or so ago , but i can't recall the details. sure he has some fans in the IC massive anyway. now i don't want to be harsh , but this has got to be the worst thing i've bought in ages. horrible parpy lightweight funk , made me think of a steely dan pub tribute band. dire. does anyone here rate this stuff? that's the first TR cd i own ; is this typical of his recent stuff or was this some sort of one-off "concept"? i thought he might be worth a listen but its just a complete let-down. also maybe the worst sleeve of the century so far. if anyone has a burining desire to own this disc , no reasonable trade offer refused. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:46:19 -0800 From: "Graeme's_Ghost" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd i think the raisins have more street cred. i remember them at the rehab center here in l.a. monster horse habits. they did some of their best work while on drugs. of course, with mates like cobain, keith, and johnny thunders, what would one expect? bad tempers and appetites for destruction and cocaine. their version of iggy's "down on the street" makes the original pale by comparison. the visceral slashing guitar work ripping your lungs out and wearing them as a hat. the howling vocals sounding as if this wraith of depravity and debauch had torn out his vocal cords and was now wearing them as suspenders. the guitarist follwed in johnny's footsteps, booking a room in a seedy new orleans bedsit right next door to the guy form mink deville. he was carried out the next day with a needle in his arm and a guitar on his chest, the room reeking of prune juice, with a wild owl tied to his head and a waistcoat filled with mashed potatoes. some suspect fowl play. shortly after that the raisins career was all dried up. their bootleg recordings are the best and are available at astonishing prices. check out "a raisin in the sun", "prune damage" or "a prune is a truck...". for those of us akin to sweating precariously through other people's wives, you can't beat these disks for portraying the gritty existential angst, the beastly bludgeoned nightmare nihilist nest egg of a cacophony of goiterous noise, claymoring your consciousness into caustic capitulation, and finally leaving your sense of hope for the future feeling as if it is seeking a glimmer of truth in a george bush speech. rip raisins np: grapevine - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David McKenzie" To: "PAUL RABJOHN" Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd >I think the California Rasins' Blues Brothers tribute might be an equal > exchange. > > And I do rate a few Todd albums pretty high. > A Wizard, A True Star, Something/Anything, Todd and The Hermit of Mink > Hollow come to mind. > Of course the latter two have some sketchy spots. > > > > > On 1/25/07, PAUL RABJOHN wrote: >> >> well my local branch of Fopp has a big pile of cd's for a quid so i took >> a >> punt on a few , including "liars" by todd rundgren (sadly not a liars >> album >> which would have been money very well spent). now i recall some >> discussion >> of this album on here a year or so ago , but i can't recall the details. >> sure he has some fans in the IC massive anyway. >> >> now i don't want to be harsh , but this has got to be the worst thing >> i've >> bought in ages. horrible parpy lightweight funk , made me think of a >> steely >> dan pub tribute band. dire. does anyone here rate this stuff? that's the >> first TR cd i own ; is this typical of his recent stuff or was this some >> sort of one-off "concept"? i thought he might be worth a listen but its >> just >> a complete let-down. also maybe the worst sleeve of the century so far. >> >> if anyone has a burining desire to own this disc , no reasonable trade >> offer refused. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:40:59 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd I'm a *big* fan of his 'psychedelic wig-out' period stuff from the 70's: the afforementioned "A wizard a true star" still sounds like a work of mad genius to me,, and likewise "Todd" (Particularly the "No 1 lowest common denominator"/"Useless Begging" "Sidewalk Cafe" side-we'll forget the "Drunken red rooster"/"Sons of 1984" segment , and even the patchier "Initiation" has it's moments, notably the sublime "Real man"....these for me were his best works, and the more restrained "Something / Anything" still found it's way into my Amazon basket when the 24-bit remaster came out. Hell, I even like "Faithfull" which even some of the TR massive thought was a pointless excercise of clever-dickery, with it's only fitfully successful 'verbatim covers' side, but gems like "Black and white" rescue it. However, IMHO, the rot set in with the pallid paen to lost love, "Hermit of mink hollow" (Fnar Fnar, indeed:-), which has about 2, maybe 3 decent tracks, and the greater part of his bombastic 'rawk' work with Utopia is best avoided (with the honourable exception of "Another Live"and half of "Ra") Sadly , after a promising start to his career where he was something of a teen prodigy, he's spent much of the last 25 years laying one egg after another. - (IIRC all the work I rate as his best was self-written, self-produced, and very largely, self-played even down to the drums, by the time he was 22 or 23) Unfortunately, for an undoubtedly talented bloke, not least as as a producer and arranger, when it comes to his own stuff, he's made some woeful stuff latterly, culminating with the lamentable "With a twist" , where he ritually murders some of his own best toons Latin-stylee.........the last thing I aquired by the guy was "Deface the music" , a Utopia outing ,which is sort of like The Rutles without the laughs , i.e it consists of a load of Beatles pastiches, mirroring every period of their oevre( ?), with frankly uncanny accuracy, but you're left wondering "Why? Why is this guy wasting talent and electricity on such pointless excercises?". Apparently, the man himself now resides on the big island of Hawaii, which is convenient, as the best place for his collected works from '81 to date , would be in the continually active and sulphurous vent of the Kilauea volcano that sits there. Derek W. . - ----- Original Message ---- From: David McKenzie To: PAUL RABJOHN Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:00:29 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd I think the California Rasins' Blues Brothers tribute might be an equal exchange. And I do rate a few Todd albums pretty high. A Wizard, A True Star, Something/Anything, Todd and The Hermit of Mink Hollow come to mind. Of course the latter two have some sketchy spots. On 1/25/07, PAUL RABJOHN wrote: > > well my local branch of Fopp has a big pile of cd's for a quid so i took a > punt on a few , including "liars" by todd rundgren (sadly not a liars album > which would have been money very well spent). now i recall some discussion > of this album on here a year or so ago , but i can't recall the details. > sure he has some fans in the IC massive anyway. > > now i don't want to be harsh , but this has got to be the worst thing i've > bought in ages. horrible parpy lightweight funk , made me think of a steely > dan pub tribute band. dire. does anyone here rate this stuff? that's the > first TR cd i own ; is this typical of his recent stuff or was this some > sort of one-off "concept"? i thought he might be worth a listen but its just > a complete let-down. also maybe the worst sleeve of the century so far. > > if anyone has a burining desire to own this disc , no reasonable trade > offer refused. p _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:14:46 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] todd Saw this in Fopp yesterday too but decided not to buy any of the #1ers - probably a good decision on this basis. I had gone in to buy the new Alasdair Roberts but didn't as it was #12, a couple of quid more than I intended to spend on it. So ended up buying '30 Years of Rough Trade Shops' for #8, Joni Mitchell's Travelogue for a fiver and Only Angels Have wings for #3 (Howard Hawks & Cary Grant - what more do you want from a film?). So for the sake of saving a couple of quid on a CD I wanted I ended up spending #16 on stuff I had no intention of buying. Ah, the Fopp effect. Was tempted to buy the Martin Hannett compilation for a fiver but I figured I already had half of it - but the more I think about it the more I think I should have added it to the pile... Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of PAUL RABJOHN Sent: 25 January 2007 17:07 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] todd well my local branch of Fopp has a big pile of cd's for a quid so i took a punt on a few , including "liars" by todd rundgren (sadly not a liars album which would have been money very well spent). now i recall some discussion of this album on here a year or so ago , but i can't recall the details. sure he has some fans in the IC massive anyway. now i don't want to be harsh , but this has got to be the worst thing i've bought in ages. horrible parpy lightweight funk , made me think of a steely dan pub tribute band. dire. does anyone here rate this stuff? that's the first TR cd i own ; is this typical of his recent stuff or was this some sort of one-off "concept"? i thought he might be worth a listen but its just a complete let-down. also maybe the worst sleeve of the century so far. if anyone has a burining desire to own this disc , no reasonable trade offer refused. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:25:15 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd >>Saw this in Fopp yesterday too but decided not to buy any of the #1ers - probably a good decision on this basis. I had gone in to buy the new Alasdair Roberts but didn't as it was #12, a couple of quid more than I intended to spend on it. << Or #12 more than another Alistair would have spent ;-) >> So ended up buying '30 Years of Rough Trade Shops' for #8, Joni Mitchell's Travelogue for a fiver and Only Angels Have wings for #3 (Howard Hawks & Cary Grant - what more do you want from a film?). So for the sake of saving a couple of quid on a CD I wanted I ended up spending #16 on stuff I had no intention of buying. Ah, the Fopp effect.<< At least you only ended up as #16 bloke. Remarkable restraint! >>Was tempted to buy the Martin Hannett compilation for a fiver but I figured I already had half of it - but the more I think about it the more I think I should have added it to the pile...<< That's the Hannett compilation with the Psychedelic Furs track produced by Steve Lilywhite on it. A lame effort. I think there's been three goes at nailing Hannett in comp form. None have really got it. I suspect a Hannett box is what you need. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:53:04 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd Extremely accurate assessment by Derek, as ever, of the Toddster's career. I'd add in his pre-solo stuff with The Nazz as being of merit too - seems to take 60s US garage rock off where it was eventually headed about 3 years before anyone else. So avoid anything by Utopia, and anything post '78. I guess Todd was a prototype over-indulged solo artiste - the Neil Young who didn't really deliver. The tradition continues - I guess Todd was the Beck of his day, or even ATKeith's fave Suffering Stevens. By that yardstick Beck is Neil and Suffering is Todd. Actually I'm doing Todd a disservice there. There's a lot more going on in those early albums than in Suffering's whimsical old toss. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:57:41 -0800 From: "Graeme's_Ghost" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd Apparently, the man himself now resides on the big island of Hawaii, which is convenient, as the best place for his collected works from '81 to date , would be in the continually active and sulphurous vent of the Kilauea volcano that sits there. kind of as luau material. i envision the salubrious porker now, apple in his mouth, half a can of dole ringlets on his back, surrounded by garnish veggies. poi, anyone? np: tiny bubbles - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek White" To: "David McKenzie" ; "idealcopy" Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd > I'm a *big* fan of his 'psychedelic wig-out' period stuff from the 70's: > the > afforementioned "A wizard a true star" still sounds like a work of mad > genius > to me,, and likewise "Todd" (Particularly the "No 1 lowest common > denominator"/"Useless Begging" "Sidewalk Cafe" side-we'll forget the > "Drunken > red rooster"/"Sons of 1984" segment , and even the patchier "Initiation" > has > it's moments, notably the sublime "Real man"....these for me were his best > works, and the more restrained "Something / Anything" still found it's > way > into my Amazon basket when the 24-bit remaster came out. > > Hell, I even like > "Faithfull" which even some of the TR massive thought was a pointless > excercise of clever-dickery, with it's only fitfully successful 'verbatim > covers' side, but gems like "Black and white" rescue it. > > However, IMHO, the > rot set in with the pallid paen to lost love, "Hermit of mink hollow" > (Fnar > Fnar, indeed:-), which has about 2, maybe 3 decent tracks, and the greater > part of his bombastic 'rawk' work with Utopia is best avoided (with the > honourable exception of "Another Live"and half of "Ra") > > Sadly , after a > promising start to his career where he was something of a teen prodigy, > he's > spent much of the last 25 years laying one egg after another. - (IIRC all > the > work I rate as his best was self-written, self-produced, and very largely, > self-played even down to the drums, by the time he was 22 or 23) > Unfortunately, for an undoubtedly talented bloke, not least as as a > producer > and arranger, when it comes to his own stuff, he's made some woeful stuff > latterly, culminating with the lamentable "With a twist" , where he > ritually > murders some of his own best toons Latin-stylee.........the last thing I > aquired by the guy was "Deface the music" , a Utopia outing ,which is sort > of > like The Rutles without the laughs , i.e it consists of a load of Beatles > pastiches, mirroring every period of their oevre( ?), with frankly uncanny > accuracy, but you're left wondering "Why? Why is this guy wasting talent > and > electricity on such pointless excercises?". > > Apparently, the man himself > now resides on the big island of Hawaii, which is convenient, as the best > place for his collected works from '81 to date , would be in the > continually > active and sulphurous vent of the Kilauea volcano that sits there. > Derek W. > > > > . > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: David McKenzie > > To: PAUL RABJOHN > Cc: > idealcopy@smoe.org > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:00:29 PM > Subject: Re: > [idealcopy] todd > > I think the California Rasins' Blues Brothers tribute might > be an equal > exchange. > > And I do rate a few Todd albums pretty high. > A Wizard, > A True Star, Something/Anything, Todd and The Hermit of Mink > Hollow come to > mind. > Of course the latter two have some sketchy spots. > > > > > On 1/25/07, PAUL > RABJOHN wrote: >> >> well my local branch of Fopp > has a big pile of cd's for a quid so i took a >> punt on a few , including > "liars" by todd rundgren (sadly not a liars album >> which would have been > money very well spent). now i recall some discussion >> of this album on here a > year or so ago , but i can't recall the details. >> sure he has some fans in > the IC massive anyway. >> >> now i don't want to be harsh , but this has got to > be the worst thing i've >> bought in ages. horrible parpy lightweight funk , > made me think of a steely >> dan pub tribute band. dire. does anyone here rate > this stuff? that's the >> first TR cd i own ; is this typical of his recent > stuff or was this some >> sort of one-off "concept"? i thought he might be > worth a listen but its just >> a complete let-down. also maybe the worst sleeve > of the century so far. >> >> if anyone has a burining desire to own this disc , > no reasonable trade >> offer refused. p > _____________________________________________________________________________ > _______ > TV dinner still cooling? > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. > http://tv.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:09:51 -0800 From: "Graeme's_Ghost" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd ; D i'll forward the boots. and one of them has a new band....along the line of the led zep, def leppard thing, called Vas Deferens. their backdrop being a large VD. come to think of it, the elpee is entitled 'Rhapsodies of Goiterous Noise' and is of course on Blind Pig. np: wombles cover of tra la la by the banana splits ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari To: Graeme's_Ghost Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd that made me wanna go buy it royt there n then darn it............ A Graeme's_Ghost wrote: i think the raisins have more street cred. i remember them at the rehab center here in l.a. monster horse habits. they did some of their best work while on drugs. of course, with mates like cobain, keith, and johnny thunders, what would one expect? bad tempers and appetites for destruction and cocaine. their version of iggy's "down on the street" makes the original pale by comparison. the visceral slashing guitar work ripping your lungs out and wearing them as a hat. the howling vocals sounding as if this wraith of depravity and debauch had torn out his vocal cords and was now wearing them as suspenders. the guitarist follwed in johnny's footsteps, booking a room in a seedy new orleans bedsit right next door to the guy form mink deville. he was carried out the next day with a needle in his arm and a guitar on his chest, the room reeking of prune juice, with a wild owl tied to his head and a waistcoat filled with mashed potatoes. some suspect fowl play. shortly after that the raisins career was all dried up. their bootleg recordings are the best and are available at astonishing prices. check out "a raisin in the sun", "prune damage" or "a prune is a truck...". for those of us akin to sweating precariously through other people's wives, you can't beat these disks for portraying the gritty existential angst, the beastly bludgeoned nightmare nihilist nest egg of a cacophony of goiterous noise, claymoring your consciousness into caustic capitulation, and finally leaving your sense of hope for the future feeling as if it is seeking a glimmer of truth in a george bush speech. rip raisins np: grapevine ----- Original Message ----- From: "David McKenzie" To: "PAUL RABJOHN" Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] todd >I think the California Rasins' Blues Brothers tribute might be an equal > exchange. > > And I do rate a few Todd albums pretty high. > A Wizard, A True Star, Something/Anything, Todd and The Hermit of Mink > Hollow come to mind. > Of course the latter two have some sketchy spots. > > > > > On 1/25/07, PAUL RABJOHN wrote: >> >> well my local branch of Fopp has a big pile of cd's for a quid so i took >> a >> punt on a few , including "liars" by todd rundgren (sadly not a liars >> album >> which would have been money very well spent). now i recall some >> discussion >> of this album on here a year or so ago , but i can't recall the details. >> sure he has some fans in the IC massive anyway. >> >> now i don't want to be harsh , but this has got to be the worst thing >> i've >> bought in ages. horrible parpy lightweight funk , made me think of a >> steely >> dan pub tribute band. dire. does anyone here rate this stuff? that's the >> first TR cd i own ; is this typical of his recent stuff or was this some >> sort of one-off "concept"? i thought he might be worth a listen but its >> just >> a complete let-down. also maybe the worst sleeve of the century so far. >> >> if anyone has a burining desire to own this disc , no reasonable trade >> offer refused. p - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1"/min. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V10 #12 *******************************