From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V9 #190 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, July 20 2006 Volume 09 : Number 190 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: O.T.?: Goth box set due from Rhino Records ["Jason Rogers] Re: [idealcopy] O.T.?: Goth box set due from Rhino Records [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] Imagine if... ["Keith A" ] Re: [idealcopy] O.T.?: Goth box set due from Rhino Records ["Uri Baran" <] Re: [idealcopy] Imagine if... [fernando ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:32:28 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: O.T.?: Goth box set due from Rhino Records >Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:16:09 +0100 (BST) >From: PAUL RABJOHN >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T.?: Goth box set due from Rhino Records > > truly tragic omission is uk decay (who coined the phrase "goth" for this >kind of music). for that alone the compiler deserves to be tied to a >gravestone in some spooky church and left out overnight I've got the Rough Trade Post-Punk compilation with UK Decay - "For My Country" on it and I'd definitely like to have some more stuff from those guys. It's a great song. I had a feeling that I'd be in the minority as far as looking forward to the Rhino box set. There are some suspect choices and some worse omissions, but this comes with the territory when doing such a compilation and I'm of the opinion that I'll get a lot of mileage off of this one in the same way that I play Rhino's No Thanks! punk box set and the Left Of The Dial 80's box set...just some good old road trip music compiled quite well considering that I'm not the one who compiled it (haha). If it were up to me? Well, I personally consider The Chills - "Pink Frost" to be one hell of a good goth tune; I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority on that one. I'd also put another Siouxsie And The Banshees track on there instead of "Spellbound". Also, do you think that this box set has enough Bauhaus/Tones On Tail/Peter Murphy/Daniel Ash/Love And Rockets/Dali's Car material?...Good Lord. Good outweighs the bad for me, though... I was a teenager in the late 80's and have fond memories of the "K-Mart Goth" bands, such as Gene Loves Jezebel, Flesh For Lulu, The Southern Death Cult/Death Cult/The Cult, Skinny Puppy, Clan Of Xymox, and The Mission UK. I know that it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm quite glad to see these bands represented. (The first few Cult albums have a place of prestige in my music collection...Love is the ultimate driving album.) Rhino does tend to overlap the material on their box sets a good bit of the time and I'm glad that this Gothic Box doesn't have "Love Will Tear Us Apart" for the 100th time or even "Bela Lugosi's Dead" on one of the audio CD's. Better to have "Dead Souls" and "She's In Parties". Also good of them not to overlap with the Left Of The Dial set in having The Cure's "A Forest" again (although that happens to be my all-time favorite single). "Charlotte Sometimes" is a good ghostly sounding Cure track to have on this set. I think that it's a better set-up than the multitude of Cleopatra label goth compilations out there, although Rhino, like Cleopatra, does seem to have Goth confused with Industrial to some degree. It's all in the fun, though. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 01:28:42 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T.?: Goth box set due from Rhino Records I generally hate compilations too. Make yr own I say. Although I liked the Martin Hannett one that came out recently. I note the inclusion of both Killing Joke and the Cocteau Twins labelled as Goth. I will argue the toss with anyone that Cocteaus are not a goth band. Their musical palette extends so much further than such a narrow, flour-caked, badly dressed musical cul-de-sac as goth. (Nor are Joy Division for that matter...they are no more a Goth band than David Bowie is a glam rock act) Anyway ex-listee Graham Rowland once attacked me with an umbrella for daring to call Killing Joke a goth band..and citing the argument that I liked the Cocteau Twins so I must like goth music anyway. I suppose ultimately, for this compilation "Goth" covers any kind of music that 'Goths' listen to. Can't see Robin & Liz making up, dressing up as Dracula and playing the Whitby Goth Festival alongside Gene Loves Gezebel anytime soon though. Ari wrote: > I hate compilations, it's always (obviously) someone elses 'take' on > what's good. anyway: I suspect that anyone that's into > 'goth/newage/alt.etc. probably owns the original c.d's anyway: only > time I ever do a compilation is when I'm having a party and don't > want people messin' with my collection.there are a few names on this > list I don't know but I'm blowed if I'd pay-out the price of a 4-c.d > set to find out. A ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 01:54:31 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Imagine if... Keith A wrote: > > Now I know there's subtle differences - Marc was way into his career and Syd > Barrett was just into his - but can someone please explain why people like > post-Syd Pink Floyd so much? No idea. I should imagine a lot of people who like post-Syd PF don't care much for Piper at the Gates of Dawn, in the same way that a lot of fans of 80s Roxy Music don't care for the Eno-era stuff (I remember reading letters of complaint in the Evening News after they last played Manchester for playing all this weird early stuff and not enough off Avalon etc) I don't own any PF albums after Piper & Saucerful of Secrets. I like reading about the post Syd bands exploits (and enjoyed Nick Masons book a lot) and Dave Gilmour seems like a very nice man indeed. But other than what I've seen or heard fleetingly on tv, radio or heard at other peoples parties i've avoided the rest of it. I recall watching a documentary about 'Dark Side..' and being quite repelled by the music...just sounded like everything I hate in music all at once (whinging, earnest lyrics, laboured virtuoso musicianship, guitar solos, drum solos, lots of things that only audiophiles care about etc.) Anyway, kind of touching to see Syd on the front of the NME today....shame they chose a picture of him looking all acid-fried like Pete Doherty rather than one of him thrashing away at a guitar in the UFO club or something. n.p. Tv on the Radio - Return to Cookie Mountain ; Can't stop listening to this utter utter work of genius. These should be massive. Why aren't they? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:52:36 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Imagine if... > In regards to Keith A's imagination gone ugly/contorted yet making > sense Well that makes a change ; ) >So, NewOrder had many more "places" to go > than PF after their respective leaders left, which I think, lends > credence to their success. And at least they had the decency to change their name. > Had Syd left after The Wall-equivalent, then I think that Keith's > comparison to T-Rex could be more apt. Wait, that is what happened to > that thing called PF after Waters left, didn't it? Are you comparing my man with Waters? I'll see you outside, Mr! ; ) K. PS My advice to Paul R is to put those Waters cd's on when you're doing something else. That way you're doing the decent thing by listening, but not wasting your life. I was gonna suggest listening in the car, but that could lead to road rage! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:02:26 +0100 From: "Uri Baran" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T.?: Goth box set due from Rhino Records Uk Decay, a name from my past.saw them supporting the Dead Kennedys at the latter's first UK gig at the Music Machine Camden Town around 1980. Peelie had been playing 'For my country' and I was impressed with them and saw them many times afterwards with a few particularly good Marquee shows. I remember the dancing being particularly violent after i got a hard kick in the back by someone 'enjoying' the music. Nice to hear Abbo's doing well. What's his real name anyway? They are really an exception nowadays with a formidable back catalogue with not too many releases but of a pretty good quality. Their first LP really needs a CD release as do their earlier singles. The vinyl is probably due for a dust off I think. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL RABJOHN" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T.?: Goth box set due from Rhino Records > well he is a little.......variable in his views. he's currently a big > music industry bigwig (running virgin in australasia amongst other things) > and i think he likes to put his past behind him when it suits. the vast > majority of the back catalogue is out of print but they let rough trade > use "for my country" on the post punk compilation (the sleeve is on the > top row of illustrations on the cover , forming a nice tryptych together > with "entertainment" and "cut" ). one of these days they'll resolve it all > and re-release things but it's a project with "issues" if you get my > drift... > > (i did smile when wire walked out at the bristol 2002 gig as the DJ > played "for my country" , about a minute after i'd been talking about them > with mr knight who now lives in their old stomping ground) > > p > > dpbailey@att.net wrote: > if memory serves, former uk decay frontman is notoriously unwilling to > let anything of the band's be compiled ... i could be wrong, though. > > dan > > -------------- Original message from PAUL RABJOHN > : -------------- > > >> nah , some terrible omissions here and some real turkeys rounded up. must >> admit >> i loved this kind of stuff 82-84 but couldn't stick all that later >> mission/all >> about eve kind of thing , though i suppose they had to include it all for >> the >> concept. >> >> truly tragic omission is uk decay (who coined the phrase "goth" for this >> kind >> of music). for that alone the compiler deserves to be tied to a >> gravestone in >> some spooky church and left out overnight , pausing only to have his >> picture >> taken (blurred) for the cover of some dodgy 7". also for quite >> interesting bands >> like march violets / danse society / gene loves jezebel they choose bland >> later >> singles and not the more interesting early stuff. the violets in >> particular were >> superb with the first line up , but you won't find that here. >> >> but i guess , like the recent NME goth special , the way you sell >> compilations >> of this type is with a big picture of fat bob , siouxsie and wayne hussey >> on the >> cover. probably explains why i wasn't asked to compile it ;-) p >> >> (for about a quid on ebay you can get a cd compiled by mick mercer called >> "gothic rock". he covered this stuff for monotony maker at the time , >> much >> better buy.........) >> >> >> Jason Rogers wrote: >> Not bad...this covers most of the bases: >> >> From Billboard: >> >> 'Gothic Box' Shines Light On Ultra Dark Music >> July 18, 2006, 11:25 AM ET >> >> Rhino has rounded up the top names in goth rock for the four-disc boxed >> set >> "A Life Less Lived -- The Gothic Box," due Sept. 19. Despite loathing the >> titular term that came to describe their music, bands like Joy Division, >> the >> Cure, Bauhaus and the Jesus & Mary Chain transcended labeling to >> revolutionize rock in the late '70s and early '80s. >> >> Key tracks from those bands are featured on "A Life Less Lived," >> including >> opener "Dead Souls" by Joy Division and Bauhaus' "She's in Parties." >> Other >> acts represented throughout include the Sisters of Mercy, Siouxsie & the >> Banshees, Love And Rockets, the Mission (U.K.), the Chameleons, the >> Damned, >> Skinny Puppy and AFI. >> >> The fourth disc in the box is a DVD with such evergreen videos as >> Bauhaus' >> "Bela Lugosi's Dead," the Cure's "Lullaby," Echo & the Bunnymen's "The >> Killing Moon," a live version of the Cult's "Spiritwalker" and Love And >> Rockets' "Ball of Confusion." >> >> Here is the track list for "A Life Less Lived": >> >> Disc 1: >> "Dead Souls," Joy Division >> "Charlotte Sometimes," the Cure >> "She's in Parties," Bauhaus >> "Temple of Love," the Sisters Of Mercy >> "Christian Says," Tones On Tail >> "Mutiny in Heaven," the Birthday Party >> "Spellbound," Siouxsie & the Banshees >> "Fatman," the Southern Death Cult >> "Mirror People," Love And Rockets >> "Power," Fields Of The Nephilim >> "Now I'm Feeling Zombified," Alien Sex Fiend >> "Snake Dance," The March Violets >> "Walking on Your Hands," Red Lorry Yellow Lorry >> "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang," Specimen >> "Wasteland," the Mission (U.K.) >> "The Grip of Love," Ghost Dance >> "His Box," Dali's Car >> >> Disc 2: >> "The Weeping Song," Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds >> "Exterminating Angel," The Creatures >> "God's Zoo," Death Cult >> "Heartache," Gene Loves Jezebel >> "I Go Crazy," Flesh For Lulu >> "Cuts You Up," Peter Murphy >> "Open Your Eyes," the Lords Of The New Church >> "Heaven Is Waiting," the Danse Society >> "All My Colours," Echo & the Bunnymen >> "Don't Fall," the Chameleons >> "Dreamland," the Rose Of Avalanche >> "Fall," the Jesus And Mary Chain >> Coming Down Fast," Daniel Ash >> "Muscoviet Musquito," Clan Of Xymox >> "Incubus Succubus II," Xmal Deutschland >> "Starblood," Cranes >> "Ardera Sempre," Miranda Sex Garden >> "Blood Bitch," Cocteau Twins >> "The Arcane," Dead Can Dance >> >> Disc 3: >> "Rain," the Cult >> "Away," the Bolshoi >> "Watch Without Pain," Rubicon >> "Pagan Lovesong," Virgin Prunes >> "Morning Dew," Einsturzende Neubauten >> "Hamburger Lady," Throbbing Gristle >> "To Blame," Kommunity FK >> "Melody Lee," the Damned >> "Romeo's Distress," Christian Death >> "Party Time," 45 Grave >> "Kiss," London After Midnight >> "Dieche," Sex Gang Children >> "Assimilate," Skinny Puppy >> "Halloween," Misfits >> "Tomorrow's World," Killing Joke >> "So What," Ministry >> "The Hanging Garden," AFI >> >> DVD: >> "Lullaby," the Cure >> "Bela Lugosi's Dead," Bauhaus >> "Lucretia My Reflection," the Sisters Of Mercy >> "Moonchild," Fields Of The Nephilim >> "Deliverance," the Mission (U.K.) >> "Ball of Confusion," Love And Rockets >> "Head On," the Jesus And Mary Chain >> "The Killing Moon," Echo & the Bunnymen >> "Where the Wild Roses Grow," Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds >> "Stigmata," Ministry >> "Spiritwalker (Live)" the Cult >> "Cities in Dust," Siouxsie & the Banshees >> >> >> Almost there...just replace the AFI cover with something else...Death In >> June, And Also The Trees, or something of the sort. >> >> I'll be getting this. It's a no-brainer, although I own most of the >> material. Rhino does a great job of putting these type things together. >> >> >> Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:38:46 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Imagine if... On Jul 19, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Keith A wrote: >> In regards to Keith A's imagination gone ugly/contorted yet making >> sense > > Well that makes a change ; ) > >> So, NewOrder had many more "places" to go >> than PF after their respective leaders left, which I think, lends >> credence to their success. > > And at least they had the decency to change their name. and not play their Joy Division songs, except at the event of death (LWTUA for the Paradise NYC owner) or birthdays (LWTUA for Rob Gretton's), both in 1984 if I recall. Also Decades and LWTUA on Ian's death anniversary. > >> Had Syd left after The Wall-equivalent, then I think that Keith's >> comparison to T-Rex could be more apt. Wait, that is what happened to >> that thing called PF after Waters left, didn't it? > > Are you comparing my man with Waters? I'll see you outside, Mr! ; ) Well, I just wanted to get sparks flying. Look, I could have said when Mr. Wright was kicked out during The Final Cut! (ouch) :) cheers! - -f. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V9 #190 *******************************