From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V9 #179 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, July 9 2006 Volume 09 : Number 179 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. [fernando ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. ["Keith A" ] [idealcopy] Kill Your Idols [] Re: [idealcopy] Kill Your Idols [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. [fernando ] Re: [idealcopy] Kill Your Idols [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Kill Your Idols [giluz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:47:04 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. On 7/8/06, PAUL RABJOHN wrote: > > the guy from Nouvelle Vague was interviewed in the guardian last week and > he said something along the lines of "if i wanted to hear the editors i > might as well go listen to joy division.....i'm looking for something i > havn't heard before to actually inspire me". > > which i think summed up my thoughts on most of these new bands (though i > hadn't realised there was a "house producer" for postpunk karaoke....that > name was new to me). > Exactly what I think, and can actually be applied to any retro scene in the future or past. For me it is further proof that being in the right time at the right place is much more than a fashion statement, that a text's context is as important as the text itself, and can be felt even unconsciously, without actually 'being there' or reading about the period. It is an intrinsic part of the unexplained black box which is art. giluz - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 20:07:20 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. Do you mean the current version of ELO, the Cars and AFOS? Not very keen. But, in the old days, I would like some ELO, a lot of early Cars, and there are gems in early AFOS -- really like the guitar work in an otherwise bland music. I have quite enjoyed the Editors' album, at least in the bubble devoid of the (anti-)hype. It is a fun album, it does not do much for me beyond entertainment, but I can play it more repeatedly than Interpol. The latter is more Chameleons to my ears, while the Editors are more Echo and the Bunnymen, so I am lost at the constant Joy Division comparisons -- and JD is my other all-time favorite band. I hear more JD in The National than these bands, which may be rather odd I will admit. I think the drummer has an affinity for Steve Morris' style. The National, TVotR, Elbow and the Go-Betweens seem to have the long running albums in the last few months. Actually, I will say that the most exciting band in the last 10 years for me is The National. cheers! - -fernando wordstains @ last.fm On Jul 7, 2006, at 2:43 PM, dpbailey@att.net wrote: > ah, yes, but how to they feel about elo, the cars & a flock of > seagulls? > > dan > > -------------- Original message from "Keith Knight" > : -------------- > > >> Actually, Dan, I suspect that there are more people here who like The >> Editors than don't. Mark and I have certainly come out agin 'em in >> recent weeks but IIRC, you've also got at least Keith A and >> Fernando on >> your and Jason's side. >> >> Another the Keith >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On >> Behalf Of dpbailey@att.net >> Sent: 07 July 2006 18:06 >> To: idealcopy@smoe.org >> Subject: Re:[idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. >> >> pretty brave of you, jason. i believe the list groupthink holds that >> those of us who like these bands (those are 2 of my favorites of the >> last several months, too ... actually, other than the new radio 4, >> they're probably the only recently released albums i've bought in the >> last half-year or so, since most of what's out there -- including, i >> regret to say, the vast majority of what gets raved about here -- >> sounds >> about as interesting to me as compendiums of tv commercials) are >> taste-impaired dupes. >> >> dan, still reeling from the fact that 5 minutes ago the mall p/a was >> playing "lost in the supermarket" ... >> >>>> She Wants Revenge - She Wants Revenge >>>> Editors - Back Room (U.S. Release, 2006) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 15:04:03 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. > I hear more JD in The National than these bands, which may be rather > odd I will admit. I think the drummer has an affinity for Steve > Morris' style. The National, TVotR, Elbow and the Go-Betweens seem to > have the long running albums in the last few months. Actually, I will > say that the most exciting band in the last 10 years for me is The > National. Not heard The National tbh. Another I haven't heard are The Search who's bumph on Red Sun mail out made them sound as if they could be interesting. Anyone heard them? The Search - Bloodbathe & Bazaar Of Lush Loose Limbs [2006 reissue] This remastered CD contains 2 mini-albums that The Search recorded in 2004 and which have never been officially released until now. The 80's postpunk and British indie music slowly but steadily make a comeback. Bands like Interpol, Radio 4, Astral and The Stills use the musical heritage of the 80' s in a refreshing way in their modern alternative music. References to The Smiths, Suicide, Joy Division and The Cure are hip again. Now we have something hot again with The Search. Sweden's newest export, The Search, proved with their debut album that you don't need to be noisy or extravagant in order to do the job. Their sound brings to mind influences from eighties bands such as The Cure, Joy Division and Sad Lovers & Giants. The band combines a very crisp wavy guitar approach with a classic rhythmic backbone consisting of bass, drums and keys. Their prog-post-punk sound makes the experience of listening to this album one that you wish to repeat over and over. Throughout the album the powerful strums of the bass and synthesizer, absolutely separates their music from other bands-being their strongest element. Overall, this is a good post-punk tune that builds nicely to a climactic frenzy then fades out slowly. Don't miss out on this one! Influences / Similar Artists: The Cure, Joy Division, Sad Lovers & Giants, Interpol, The Opposition (red sun) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 10:31:39 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. ah, yes, but how to they feel about elo, the cars & a flock of seagulls? I suspect you know the answer to that!! ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 10:49:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spooky Wireish moment ;-) Watching the tour de france yesterday. Rider GILBERT is number..... ...154 Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:56:16 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: RE: OT - So far.. >Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:05:35 +0000 >From: dpbailey@att.net >Subject: Re:[idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. > >pretty brave of you, jason. i believe the list groupthink holds that those >of us who like these bands (those are 2 of my favorites of the last several >months, too ... actually, other than the new radio 4, they're probably the >only recently released albums i've bought in the last half-year or so, >since most of what's out there -- including, i regret to say, the vast >majority of what gets raved about here -- sounds about as interesting to me >as compendiums of tv commercials) are taste-impaired dupes. > > > > She Wants Revenge - She Wants Revenge > > > Editors - Back Room (U.S. Release, 2006) > I do love the She Wants Revenge album and played it quite a lot during the first couple of months in 2006...although I have to say that my favorite SWR song is "Spend The Night", a B-side from the debut EP/single from 2005. Nothing too intellectually demanding, but She Wants Revenge appeals to the Depeche Mode side of me quite nicely. Actually...I did forget to mention a gig...the She Wants Revenge show from a few months ago. I didn't care much at all for the opener, Nightmare Of You (gee...wonder where they got that band name?), but She Wants Revenge was quite fun and much more guitar-heavy in concert. There's a reason why I listed The Editors last, I've got to say. It's a fine purchase, but pales in comparison to most of what I've bought this year. Still, "Munich" and "Bullets" are pretty intense and fun. Got to add Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest to my movies list, as I caught it last night and quite enjoyed it. If you're a fan of the old Ray Harryhausen flick, It Came From Beneath The Sea (I'm a huge fan and have the DVD at home.), this Pirates Of The Caribbean sequel will make you very happy. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 08:01:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. Another band who is searching into sounds from a period from where we are saying this was us are probably new Norwegian band Susanne & the Magical Orchestra on runegrammafon. Haven't heard it but looks interesting http://www.runegrammofon.com/v2/news.php http://www.musiconline.no/shop/displayAlbum.asp?id=31069 j > I hear more JD in The National than these bands, which may be rather > odd I will admit. I think the drummer has an affinity for Steve > Morris' style. The National, TVotR, Elbow and the Go-Betweens seem to > have the long running albums in the last few months. Actually, I will > say that the most exciting band in the last 10 years for me is The > National. Not heard The National tbh. Another I haven't heard are The Search who's bumph on Red Sun mail out made them sound as if they could be interesting. Anyone heard them? The Search - Bloodbathe & Bazaar Of Lush Loose Limbs [2006 reissue] This remastered CD contains 2 mini-albums that The Search recorded in 2004 and which have never been officially released until now. The 80's postpunk and British indie music slowly but steadily make a comeback. Bands like Interpol, Radio 4, Astral and The Stills use the musical heritage of the 80' s in a refreshing way in their modern alternative music. References to The Smiths, Suicide, Joy Division and The Cure are hip again. Now we have something hot again with The Search. Sweden's newest export, The Search, proved with their debut album that you don't need to be noisy or extravagant in order to do the job. Their sound brings to mind influences from eighties bands such as The Cure, Joy Division and Sad Lovers & Giants. The band combines a very crisp wavy guitar approach with a classic rhythmic backbone consisting of bass, drums and keys. Their prog-post-punk sound makes the experience of listening to this album one that you wish to repeat over and over. Throughout the album the powerful strums of the bass and synthesizer, absolutely separates their music from other bands-being their strongest element. Overall, this is a good post-punk tune that builds nicely to a climactic frenzy then fades out slowly. Don't miss out on this one! Influences / Similar Artists: The Cure, Joy Division, Sad Lovers & Giants, Interpol, The Opposition (red sun) - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 10:44:59 -0400 From: Subject: [idealcopy] Kill Your Idols Off WIRE topic, also posted to Typical Girls A Brief Review of Kill Your Idols curently playing in manhattan, palm pictures/blockbuster distribution may mean its coming to a theater or video store near you This is the No Wave film by S.A. Crary, a chronological and slightly social history of downtown NYC's No Wave of the late 70's, interviews with 80's torch carriers Swans and Sonic Youth, and winding up with several bands who emerged on the rock radar in the early 2000's that have supposedly tangential roots to the No Wave; the giggly Yeah Yeah Yeahs, the grouchy A.R.E. Weapons, the unnecessary Black Dice, and the great Liars (pre de-bassing). Mr. Crary did a very fine technical job; titles of 'chapters' each have their own little video/music montage, the editing and sound is very smooth, the photography is fine. Much of the archival footage is understandably rough, although it is a treat to actually see some of it at all. I wish there were more complete performances, but this was not a concert film. The first shot, and the first sounds, correctly go to Marty Rev of Suicide, and they (and he) sound great. There are various ways to identify No Wave music, but two that were prominent in the film were the inner angst of the musicians and the aggressive, confrontational expressions of it in sound and performance, and the 'anti-blues' chord choices/sequences/structures of the songs, and Suicide was there first. A quick montage takes us through the Dolls/Ramones/Television/CBGB era and its time for No New York. Of the bands on that album, Contortions get short shrift, and Mars are virtually absent (I believe Arto Lindsay mentions an early art magazine attempt by himself and Mark Cunningham, but no footage of Mars, and precious little (if any) music. There are several clips of DNA and Teenage Jesus, I think all of which have been copied/distributed before, although not widely and are nevertheless great to experience. Not surprisingly, Lydia Lunch gets a lot of air time, which was great with me. What was surprising was an old news clip of a (14? 15?) year old Lydia dressed like a suburban teenybopper club hopper circa 1975 (cusp of disco era), telling the newscaster that she likes getting into clubs and meeting the musicians because she 'likes to fuck them' Much is made of her sexuality, her personal angst, most of it not flattering, and her assured comments are as sure to divide reactions today as they probably did back then. Personally, I agreed with virtually everything she said. Arto Lindsay comes across as arty, poetic, and vague, with some sharp insights and a gentle, relaxed humor. He seems like a great person to have dinner with, to hang out with for an evening. DNA's music is unassailable, and Arto tells a bit about his/their motivations, but no new revelations. Glenn Branca was the other original 70's scenster who was extensively interviewed, and he talks as much about the others as about his own work. I don't remember much, if any, Theoretical Girls video, precious little music, and little or none of the guitar symphonies. Michael Gira of Swans and Thurston Moore and Lee Ranaldo of Sonic Youth are all given some time to explain their backstories and I must say that one of the distinguishing factors to me of this music (70's and early 80's incarnations) is the intelligence of the artists, and the fact that 'art' is an operative word. Maybe it would be truer to say that these guys were more self-concious as artists (like the 60' English Invasion bands, so many came out of art school), but they are all articulate, critical thinkers, and seem fairly well rounded in their subsequent life education, not a common thing in fringe rockers as a rule. 'Articulate, critical thinkers' however, would not apply to the newer bands, at least on the evidence in this film. (Liars may be an exception, I confess they are the only band of this current crop that I follow, and I really like their work.). I have no idea what the fuck A.R.E. Weapons are about, and am not likely to pursue the answer anytime soon. Black Dice get some points for pure noise, but they didn't invent it, and one of the tenents of the no wave (of ART, of Ezra Pound), is MAKE IT NEW! !! Karen O has sex appeal, Nick Zinn plays great guitar, the Yeahs have a real good drummer in Brian, and that first Ep with Art Star was great, but they are a POP band, full stop. No more relevant to No Wave than the Strokes. The film has some humorous and at times insightful comments from the guy in Gogol Bordello, but his band is not at all no wave, and I guess his appearance in the film is due to geography (ie; they are based in New York). Now, if I come across as as a grouchy old timer ('tings jest ain' da way dey usta be), fair enough, although in my defense, that attitude comes across from the first generation of no wavers, too. Jim Sclavunos (sp?) and others seem uncomfortable with any connection between this newer crop of musicians and what went on in the 70's, although if the geographical constraints were taken off and bands from Chicago's great no wave scene of the 90's, or the japanoise people, or Rough Trade, etc. were brought up, I think the grappa might come out and shouts of 'paisano!' might be heard. T. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 18:35:30 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Kill Your Idols On 7/8/06, sasscer1@bellsouth.net wrote: > > Off WIRE topic, also posted to Typical Girls > > > The film has some humorous and at times insightful comments from the guy > in Gogol Bordello, but his band is not at all no wave, and I guess his > appearance in the film is due to geography (ie; they are based in New > York). > I haven't seen the film, but I do know that the Bordello scene is hugely influenced by post-punk era music, and no wave is probably included, especially considering the way Bordello emerged, more as a scene where musicians would collaborate, play their own and others' music, and drink and take lots of drugs. Definitely not a no-wave band, but the tribute to German DAF was quite conscious when naming one of their projects JUF (Jewish-Ukrainian Freundschaft) giluz - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 09:08:23 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: OT - So far.. Keith, One thing that I have noticed about the National, is that they appeal to a wide fan base... included the VdGG-devoted wife, and others from "that ilk." They are available at iTunes store, so it would be easy to sample. I usually keep my tastes to myself, and share them when asked, but this is the one band that I mention first to whomever, because it is easy to like them. That said, not all of their albums are good, but working one's way back is an easy way, with Alligator (album) and Cherry Tree (EP) being really the essential release. The Black Sessions are out of this world :) Nice tip on The Search... will have to seek them out. cheers! - -f. On Jul 8, 2006, at 7:04 AM, Keith A wrote: >> I hear more JD in The National than these bands, which may be rather >> odd I will admit. I think the drummer has an affinity for Steve >> Morris' style. The National, TVotR, Elbow and the Go-Betweens seem to >> have the long running albums in the last few months. Actually, I will >> say that the most exciting band in the last 10 years for me is The >> National. > > > Not heard The National tbh. Another I haven't heard are The Search > who's > bumph on Red Sun mail out made them sound as if they could be > interesting. > Anyone heard them? > > > > The Search - Bloodbathe & Bazaar Of Lush Loose Limbs [2006 reissue] > > This remastered CD contains 2 mini-albums that The Search recorded > in 2004 > and which have never been officially released until now. The 80's > postpunk > and British indie music slowly but steadily make a comeback. Bands > like > Interpol, Radio 4, Astral and The Stills use the musical heritage > of the 80' > s in a refreshing way in their modern alternative music. References > to The > Smiths, Suicide, Joy Division and The Cure are hip again. Now we have > something hot again with The Search. Sweden's newest export, The > Search, > proved with their debut album that you don't need to be noisy or > extravagant > in order to do the job. Their sound brings to mind influences from > eighties > bands such as The Cure, Joy Division and Sad Lovers & Giants. The band > combines a very crisp wavy guitar approach with a classic rhythmic > backbone > consisting of bass, drums and keys. Their prog-post-punk sound > makes the > experience of listening to this album one that you wish to repeat > over and > over. Throughout the album the powerful strums of the bass and > synthesizer, > absolutely separates their music from other bands-being their > strongest > element. Overall, this is a good post-punk tune that builds nicely > to a > climactic frenzy then fades out slowly. Don't miss out on this one! > > Influences / Similar Artists: > The Cure, Joy Division, Sad Lovers & Giants, Interpol, The Opposition > > (red sun) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 13:18:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Kill Your Idols >>Definitely not a no-wave band, but the tribute to German DAF was quite conscious when naming one of their projects JUF (Jewish-Ukrainian Freundschaft)<< If only they sounded like DAF. They sound like a Ukrainian version of the Pogues - ie totally unlistenable. Truly horrible punk cabaret shite. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 20:21:24 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Kill Your Idols No they don't sound like DAF at all. On 7/8/06, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > > > >>Definitely not a no-wave band, but the tribute to German > DAF was quite conscious when naming one of their projects JUF > (Jewish-Ukrainian Freundschaft)<< > > If only they sounded like DAF. They sound like a Ukrainian version of the > Pogues - ie totally unlistenable. Truly horrible punk cabaret shite. > > Mark > > - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V9 #179 *******************************