From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V9 #168 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, June 26 2006 Volume 09 : Number 168 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] scritti and 80s production values [PAUL RABJOHN Subject: Re: [idealcopy] scritti and 80s production values Tim wrote: PAUL RABJOHN wrote: > i find stuff like cupid & psyche absolutely unlistenable , almost the > epitomy of horrible 80's production and i can't bear it. whereas > "early" is just fabulous , grows and grows on me even more over time This might be an age thing! /////yeah , almost certainly. i guess its like people's fave wire stuff so often being the ones they heard first. i've got a mate who will argue all night that let it be and strangeways are massively the best beatles/smiths albums. and of course , they're the ones he heard first. no right or wrong in any of this , but personally i just really struggle with mid-80's production sounds and don't find a lot of "pop" releases from those times very listenable now. still , gonna do this scritti gig and quite looking forward to it. gonna be memorable one way or the other ;-) p I Got the Early CD and didn't really do much for me really. Maybe you had to be there. n.p Kettel - My Dogan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:22:08 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] scritti and 80s production values In this instance, I love both - I was at the Acklam Hall for Scritti in the late 70s but also love the Cupid & Pysche era. The bridge for this was The 'Sweetest Girl' which I still think is one of the finest songs ever recorded and certainly the finest Robert Wyatt song he never wrote (in that, of course, it sounds just like him, not so surprising given that he plays on it). I still find stuff like Wood Beez entering by brain unbidden for a few hours. Only heard the new album once so far and it kind of drifted by. It's got to be worth turning out for them live, although I doubt if I'm going to be able to make it. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of PAUL RABJOHN Sent: 25 June 2006 10:58 To: Tim Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] scritti and 80s production values Tim wrote: PAUL RABJOHN wrote: > i find stuff like cupid & psyche absolutely unlistenable , almost the > epitomy of horrible 80's production and i can't bear it. whereas > "early" is just fabulous , grows and grows on me even more over time This might be an age thing! /////yeah , almost certainly. i guess its like people's fave wire stuff so often being the ones they heard first. i've got a mate who will argue all night that let it be and strangeways are massively the best beatles/smiths albums. and of course , they're the ones he heard first. no right or wrong in any of this , but personally i just really struggle with mid-80's production sounds and don't find a lot of "pop" releases from those times very listenable now. still , gonna do this scritti gig and quite looking forward to it. gonna be memorable one way or the other ;-) p I Got the Early CD and didn't really do much for me really. Maybe you had to be there. n.p Kettel - My Dogan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:32:38 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Now OT: Re: [hammill] re: Guy Evans last night They were very good - fourth time I've seen them but I've not heard the new album yet and early reports have not been encouraging in that it's supposed to slough off their - for me - main selling point of threatening to fall over into chaotic noise for more structured and melodic work. But live the noise tendency is still there with a formidable attack - three guitars, bass, violin, keyboards and drums with some brass brought in for a couple of songs - when they get going. It's sad that a couple of years ago I saw Razorlight supporting them and they're now playing Wembley Arena whereas Hope of The States can't sell out Koko which only holds a thousand. But then we're used here to people not getting they're just reward I suppose. Keith - -----Original Message----- From: hammill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hall Keith Knight wrote: > Weird to think that I was also hanging around Euston last night waiting > for my wife with whom I went to see Hope of the States at Koko in > Camden. An accidental three-way Hammill list meet up would have been > something! How were Hope of the States? The new CD sounds very promising. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:25:24 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti/Henry Cow?Homosexuals > > Surprising, but prog-types were notoriously hung up about > > "non-musicianship". At the time. It was seen as such a threat. > > > > Mark > > > > Why surprising? seems quite natural to me that they would react like that. And they were right, as far as they were concerned - the threat was real, and their type of music became irrelevant very fast. It is exactly this reaction which is a symptom of the state of the music industry in those years and the necessity to cut what has been thought of as the evolution of rock music - from rockn'roll to psychedelia and then to prog - and return to point zero. Not immaculately phrased, I know, but it's the best I can come up with tonight. giluz - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:58:39 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: Now OT: Re: [hammill] re: Guy Evans last night Hmm, I seem to have sent this to the wrong list! ATK - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Keith Knight Sent: 25 June 2006 12:33 To: Idealcopy Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Now OT: Re: [hammill] re: Guy Evans last night They were very good - fourth time I've seen them but I've not heard the new album yet and early reports have not been encouraging in that it's supposed to slough off their - for me - main selling point of threatening to fall over into chaotic noise for more structured and melodic work. But live the noise tendency is still there with a formidable attack - three guitars, bass, violin, keyboards and drums with some brass brought in for a couple of songs - when they get going. It's sad that a couple of years ago I saw Razorlight supporting them and they're now playing Wembley Arena whereas Hope of The States can't sell out Koko which only holds a thousand. But then we're used here to people not getting they're just reward I suppose. Keith - -----Original Message----- From: hammill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hall Keith Knight wrote: > Weird to think that I was also hanging around Euston last night waiting > for my wife with whom I went to see Hope of the States at Koko in > Camden. An accidental three-way Hammill list meet up would have been > something! How were Hope of the States? The new CD sounds very promising. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 20:12:25 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: Now OT: Re: [hammill] re: Guy Evans last nigh t We forgive you! B - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Keith Knight Sent: 25 June 2006 19:59 To: 'Idealcopy' Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: Now OT: Re: [hammill] re: Guy Evans last night Hmm, I seem to have sent this to the wrong list! ATK - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Keith Knight Sent: 25 June 2006 12:33 To: Idealcopy Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Now OT: Re: [hammill] re: Guy Evans last night They were very good - fourth time I've seen them but I've not heard the new album yet and early reports have not been encouraging in that it's supposed to slough off their - for me - main selling point of threatening to fall over into chaotic noise for more structured and melodic work. But live the noise tendency is still there with a formidable attack - three guitars, bass, violin, keyboards and drums with some brass brought in for a couple of songs - when they get going. It's sad that a couple of years ago I saw Razorlight supporting them and they're now playing Wembley Arena whereas Hope of The States can't sell out Koko which only holds a thousand. But then we're used here to people not getting they're just reward I suppose. Keith - -----Original Message----- From: hammill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hall Keith Knight wrote: > Weird to think that I was also hanging around Euston last night waiting > for my wife with whom I went to see Hope of the States at Koko in > Camden. An accidental three-way Hammill list meet up would have been > something! How were Hope of the States? The new CD sounds very promising. Martin ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.clearswift.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:42:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] watch out England!!........... .......those Portugese are serious....... (what a game/fiasco) what say you Bart? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:00:06 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti/Henry Cow?Homosexuals >>Why surprising? seems quite natural to me that they would react like that. And they were right, as far as they were concerned - the threat was real, and their type of music became irrelevant very fast. It is exactly this reaction which is a symptom of the state of the music industry in those years and the necessity to cut what has been thought of as the evolution of rock music - from rockn'roll to psychedelia and then to prog - and return to point zero.<< Only surprising in that Chris Cutler was really as much on the fringes of prog as he was of punk. You'd sort of expect him to be more enlightened - though I suspect the infiltration of non-musicians into the pre-punk muso space took quite a leap of faith, and was generally reisited by even quite enlightened musicians. Charles Hayward is interesting on this topic - bringing Gareth Williams into This Heat - a band that had evolved from a serious prog act (Quiet Sun, with Phil Manzanera). CH says it changed how he approached things entirely, and permanently. I'd guess Cutler realised the error of his proggy muso ways pretty soon after... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:07:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: Re: [idealcopy] watch out England!!........... And mean and clever too but probably Ivanov the referee is out. .......those Portugese are serious....... (what a game/fiasco) what say you Bart? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus theres much more to come. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 16:31:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] watch out England!!........... - --- Jan Noorda wrote: >>And mean and clever too but probably Ivanov the referee is out.<< and rightly so, I did 'feel' for him though, wonder if the outcome/play would have been any different with another ref. there...... ? . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 20:18:29 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] watch out England!!........... >>and rightly so, I did 'feel' for him though, wonder if the outcome/play would have been any different with another ref. there...... ?<< Why? He was utterly incompetent. Every foul does not require a booking. Should never be allowed to referee at international level again - which goes for about half of the idiots I've seen. Still, looks like half the portuguese first team will be suspended, so well done Mr Ivanov ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:05:50 +0100 (BST) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: Re: [idealcopy] watch out England!!........... hmmm , who'd have thought there was a worse referee than graham poll on FIFA's books. well england might not be much use but we do seem incredibly lucky in who we end up facing. prediction for next round ; fat frankie's 25th attempt on goal finally goes in and we cling on grimly for another streaky win. p MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>and rightly so, I did 'feel' for him though, wonder if the outcome/play would have been any different with another ref. there...... ?<< Why? He was utterly incompetent. Every foul does not require a booking. Should never be allowed to referee at international level again - which goes for about half of the idiots I've seen. Still, looks like half the portuguese first team will be suspended, so well done Mr Ivanov ;-) Mark ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V9 #168 *******************************