From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V9 #166 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, June 24 2006 Volume 09 : Number 166 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti [tony clough ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti/Henry Cow [MarkBu] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti/Henry Cow?Homosexuals [tony clough Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti . Green's voice still sounds good, >> but it's not enough. Admitedly I've only listened to >> it once, though I took it off before the end as it was >> starting to bug me a little. Perhaps it should be >> called "Stale Bread Warm Beer" >> > > Anyone considering going to the shows should be advised that so far he > hasn't played anything other than stuff off the new LP. Wire fans should > be used to this! > I heard him playing some stuff live on the radio recently. I've never been a big fan of the "pop" version of the band but it was instantly recognizable as Scritti. I suppose its a long time ago and a world away now but its sad that Green is so disparaging about the early stuff (recently released as "Early" !). I know that was an intense, earnest and somewhat paranoid time and that Green has indicated that it was a pretty miserable period for him ending in a collapse in his health so it was good to hear him sound happy and relaxed. I don't know what it says about me that , having picked up on all the negative traits of the music of that period, I listened then and listen now with great pleasure. Tony. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:15:31 +0100 (BST) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti i find stuff like cupid & psyche absolutely unlistenable , almost the epitomy of horrible 80's production and i can't bear it. whereas "early" is just fabulous , grows and grows on me even more over time. i actually quite liked "anhomie and bonhomie" (well in places anyway) , though i don't think it was seen by many as much of a success. downloaded the new one and played it through once , sounds ok but not anything radical. allegedly he plays guitar on it , but it's hardly "scritlocks door" (as if) ;-) but i do fancy the tour , probably oxford. did green ever tour those 80's albums? can't recall ever seeing live dates advertised since the "punk" days. p tony clough wrote: . Green's voice still sounds good, >> but it's not enough. Admitedly I've only listened to >> it once, though I took it off before the end as it was >> starting to bug me a little. Perhaps it should be >> called "Stale Bread Warm Beer" >> > > Anyone considering going to the shows should be advised that so far he > hasn't played anything other than stuff off the new LP. Wire fans should > be used to this! > I heard him playing some stuff live on the radio recently. I've never been a big fan of the "pop" version of the band but it was instantly recognizable as Scritti. I suppose its a long time ago and a world away now but its sad that Green is so disparaging about the early stuff (recently released as "Early" !). I know that was an intense, earnest and somewhat paranoid time and that Green has indicated that it was a pretty miserable period for him ending in a collapse in his health so it was good to hear him sound happy and relaxed. I don't know what it says about me that , having picked up on all the negative traits of the music of that period, I listened then and listen now with great pleasure. Tony. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:00:30 +0100 From: tony clough Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti/Henry Cow - --On 23 June 2006 10:15 +0100 PAUL RABJOHN wrote: > > i find stuff like cupid & psyche absolutely unlistenable , almost the > epitomy of horrible 80's production and i can't bear it. whereas "early" > is just fabulous , grows and grows on me even more over time. Glad to hear it. The sad thing is that there was another Peel session and had this been included it would have covered most of their early set. They also attempted to record an album but were dissatisfied with the results. It was never clear whether "4 A Sides" was salvaged from this. > but i do fancy the tour , probably oxford. did green ever tour those 80's > albums? can't recall ever seeing live dates advertised since the "punk" > days. p > I'm almost certain he didn't. I remember people who were fans of the band at that period telling me how he'd "never played live" and looking at me with suspicion when I said I'd seen them twice. They were quite magnificent with a fair proportion of the set being improvised. I played some of the early stuff to these people to be told "well, you could get away with it in those days...". These days I don't really have a problem with someone changing their mind or trying for a bit of commercial success but at the time I never quite managed to forgive Green for such a blatant change of direction and his limp claims, as he sat answering pre-teen pop fans' questions, that nothing had changed very much really. There's quite an interesting interview with Green and Simon Reynolds on the latter's website, if I remember correctly, where Green talks about his involvement with the leftist music scene including Henry Cow. Apparently, Scritti sent a copy of their stunning first single "Skank Bloc Bologna" to Chris Cutler only to have it returned with a comment along the lines of "leave it to the proper musicians". If this is true I'm astounded, especially as Cutler and Co. were among those "hippy-era" musicians who seemed most open new music although the "proper musician" bit was the big prog bugbear. Tony, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 03:06:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] O.T: for Cure fanz http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=50681 talk about better late than never..... A Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:20:26 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti/Henry Cow >>Glad to hear it. The sad thing is that there was another Peel session and had this been included it would have covered most of their early set. << Yep. Love that other session. That was my introduction to the band - remember hearing it on Peel. The name made you sit up and notice! Contains Knowledge and Interest, my favourite track of theirs. It would have fitted on the CD too! >>They also attempted to record an album but were dissatisfied with the results. It was never clear whether "4 A Sides" was salvaged from this.<< Hmmm - didn't know that. Wonder if there's anything else in the can? > but i do fancy the tour , probably oxford. did green ever tour those 80's > albums? can't recall ever seeing live dates advertised since the "punk" > days. p > >>I'm almost certain he didn't. I remember people who were fans of the band at that period telling me how he'd "never played live" and looking at me with suspicion when I said I'd seen them twice.<< I think he had stage fright after his collapse, rather like Andy Partridge. >> They were quite magnificent with a fair proportion of the set being improvised. I played some of the early stuff to these people to be told "well, you could get away with it in those days...". These days I don't really have a problem with someone changing their mind or trying for a bit of commercial success but at the time I never quite managed to forgive Green for such a blatant change of direction and his limp claims, as he sat answering pre-teen pop fans' questions, that nothing had changed very much really.<< Yes, the early stuff seems kind of unfulfilled - now you can hear the transition from SBB via 4 A sides to Sweetest Girl - then it just looked like a massive U-turn... >>There's quite an interesting interview with Green and Simon Reynolds on the latter's website,<< Ah, the love affair of the cenntury. Simon and Green! >>if I remember correctly, where Green talks about his involvement with the leftist music scene including Henry Cow. Apparently, Scritti sent a copy of their stunning first single "Skank Bloc Bologna" to Chris Cutler only to have it returned with a comment along the lines of "leave it to the proper musicians". If this is true I'm astounded, especially as Cutler and Co. were among those "hippy-era" musicians who seemed most open new music although the "proper musician" bit was the big prog bugbear.<< That'll be the same Chris Cutler whose label reissued the likes of The Homosexuals recently? (a band that makes early Scritti sound like ELP). Surprising, but prog-types were notoriously hung up about "non-musicianship". At the time. It was seen as such a threat. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:42:07 +0100 From: tony clough Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti/Henry Cow?Homosexuals > Yep. Love that other session. That was my introduction to the band - > remember hearing it on Peel. The name made you sit up and notice! > > Contains Knowledge and Interest, my favourite track of theirs. It would > have fitted on the CD too! I have it on cassette - somewhere.. > That'll be the same Chris Cutler whose label reissued the likes of The > Homosexuals recently? (a band that makes early Scritti sound like ELP). > Surprising, but prog-types were notoriously hung up about > "non-musicianship". At the time. It was seen as such a threat. > > Mark > Yes, that's him but I'm not sure about the Homosexuals making early Scritti sound like ELP. Two of them were excellent musicians (one was on old progger) and they had a series of great anonymous drummers. Nice to have them mentioned again as, as I've said here before I think, they were kind of Wire in a parallel universe. Tony. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:50:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti/Henry Cow?Homosexuals >>I have it on cassette - somewhere..<< Yep, got a decent copy of it too. In fact I'd compiled my own version of "Early" a few years back, including it... >>Yes, that's him but I'm not sure about the Homosexuals making early Scritti sound like ELP. Two of them were excellent musicians (one was on old progger) and they had a series of great anonymous drummers. Nice to have them mentioned again as, as I've said here before I think, they were kind of Wire in a parallel universe.<< It's very loose though - if they were proggers, they play within themselves (unlike, say, Charles Hayward, who doesn't play in a proggy way in This Heat, but certainly doesn't hold back his technique). Homosexuals /Wire. Hmmm - perhaps if Wire hadn't heard Kraftwerk might they have come out that way? Wire is more structured and minimal - Homosexuals is a great splurge of ideas, not really worked through. Excellent stuff though.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:05:51 +0100 From: tony clough Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Homosexuals > Homosexuals /Wire. Hmmm - perhaps if Wire hadn't heard Kraftwerk might > they have come out that way? Wire is more structured and minimal - > Homosexuals is a great splurge of ideas, not really worked through. > Excellent stuff though.... > > Mark > I guess I'm thinking: brevity (usually),mockney-accent, oblique lyrics, off-kilter spikey pop. You're right its less worked through and doesn't amount to as much of a style as Wire and they're not blues-phobic but I definitely think anyone who likes Pink Flag and Chairs Missing should give them a go. Tony. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:31:09 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #164 OT Scritti/Henry Cow > >>Glad to hear it. The sad thing is that there was another Peel session and > had this been included it would have covered most of their early set. << > > Yep. Love that other session. That was my introduction to the band - > remember hearing it on Peel. The name made you sit up and notice! My introduction to them was ...Western World, which I taped off Peel and always though was called In And Out The Western World. Loved it. Seem to recall that early Scritti was used on some Play For Today type drama on tv at that time. > Yes, the early stuff seems kind of unfulfilled - now you can hear the > transition from SBB via 4 A sides to Sweetest Girl - then it just looked like a > massive U-turn... But there was still something Scritti-like about it, so it never really seemed like a U turn to me. I'd say more a watering down if that didn't seem disparaging, because it's a great 45. Not so keen on the LP mind. Only heard one track off the new one so far (it was one of the monthly mags free cd's), but I loved the last one. Bought it on a bit of a whim after liking the Tinseltown single, and was kinda amazed how much I liked it. It was interesting how much of backseat he took vocals-wise though. K. np Julian Cope - floored genius 3 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:37:28 -0400 From: eric@thinkterrain.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] great opportunity It's much nicer to share their rider after the gig. Eric >sorry but i have to forward this on , it cracked me up. you are all no doubt >aware that AOR legends foreigner are back on the road again. sure there are >several fans here. i'm on the mailing list for wolverhampton civic hall (big >local venue as birmingham currently in the doldrums) and attached to a plug >for the foreigner gig is this exciting offer ; > > "Legends of wine and rock - Wente vineyards (california) is going on the >road with Foreigner to offer pre-concert wine tastings with the band. >These exclusive gatherings represent a first-of-its-kind opportunity for fans >to meet Foreigner, while tasting wines from Wente vineyards. A small number of >tickets priced #10.00 each are available for this event from Midland Box >Office 01902 552121/0870 320 7000. This will take place at 6:00pm in the Civic >Hall Bar!" > > i think wire certainly missed a trick not going down this path ;-) and i >must say a couple of bottles of vino would probably improve the foreigner gig >beyond question (well it could hardly make things worse) p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V9 #166 *******************************