From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V9 #160 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, June 17 2006 Volume 09 : Number 160 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #158 [tony clough Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #158 Thanks Keith, This version rings true. I got my information from a fairly recent study/biography of Ligeti (I don't remember the title or have it to hand) but I think it was authorised by Ligeti. The bit about the convoluted fight to get recompense and being paid off short was included. As I understand it either Ligeti or Kubrick raised the issue publicly some years later with Kubrick claiming it was all above board and Ligeti demanding Kubrick produce the (non-existent) contract. Apart from this incident I think they had made their peace as Kubrick used him again in Eyes Wide Shut apparently legitimately. At the risk of stretching a point beyond credibility I think Ligeti stood in relation to classical music in much the same way that Wire stand to pop/rock - the jokers in the pack, insiders and outsiders at the same time, simultaneously ironic and earnest. I still half-try to keep up with developments in as many areas of music as possible and I've dipped into contemporary classical music a couple of times in the last few years but I haven't found anything truly remarkable since Ligeti. Anyone got any suggestions ? Tony. - --On 15 June 2006 22:01 +0100 Keith Knight wrote: > This is the story suggested in the Guardian obituary, for example, but > for years I've understood that Ligeti sued due to Kubrick distorting his > work in the final sequence of 2001 (using it as alien sound while Bowman > grows old). A quick Google search suggests both stories are out there > but this extract from > http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/1997/48/soundtrack/2001.htm has a ring > of truth: > > 'Robert C. Cumbow's article on the music tells us how GyC6rgy Ligeti > "took successful legal action for the unauthorized modification of his > music", particularly concerning the electronically treated excerpts from > Ligeti's Adventures. > > As a matter of fact, Ligeti never got as far as to the court with his > case. The story is this: Ligeti met a friend, who'd seen "2001:A Space > Odyssey". The friend commented on the use of Ligeti's music in the film > - much to Ligeti's surprise: he had not seen it himself. What is more, > Kubrick had never asked permission to use Ligeti's compositions. His > lawyer contacted MGM, claiming that the use of Ligeti's music was > illegal - MGM replied that Ligeti had every right to complain, but since > all of the legal business was taken care of by an English agency, a > lawsuit should be addressed to the people in England. This was the > beginning of a lengthy correspondence proving that Ligeti had a case, > but that a judicial process would be long and costly. Finally Ligeti > decided not to go to court. An agreement was made with Kubrick's > management securing the composer a compensation - probably a lot less > than what he was entitled to, yet still more than what was the first > intention of Kubrick and MGM. The story might stain Kubrick's reputation > as a gentleman - but gentleman ship doesn't necessarily apply when it > comes to art'. > > Which begs the question as to why Stanley - or MGM - thought he could > get away with it. The use of Ligeti was a very late decision by Kubrick > - he had already commissioned a score from Alex North and only decided > not to use it at the eleventh hour - so perhaps it was overlooked in the > last minute scramble (he said charitably). Whatever the reason, it is a > brilliant use of found music as score and I'm sure a signpost on my > journey into the farther reaches of music, given the effect the film had > on me. > > Another the Keith > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On > Behalf Of tony clough > Sent: 15 June 2006 10:13 > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V9 #158 > >> Like most people I came to know his works (e.g. Lux Aeterna) through >> the soundtrack of Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey. I think the film >> gained enormously from from Ligeti's otherworldly tunes. Apparently >> Ligeti even sued Kubrick over alterations to one of his work. So much >> for gratitude to introduce his "difficult" music to a larger >> audience... "What are you doing Dave?" >> >> Bart > > Sad to hear about Ligeti's death. You're right, Bart, about Kubrick > bringing Ligeti before a wider audience but Ligeti's anger was due to > the > fact that it was done without permission or payment - the first he knew > about it was when he saw the film. > > Tony. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:12:14 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] LATER >>I note Kevin Shields has jumped ship since they decided to go back to being a Rolling Stones tribute.<< Apparently Kev's Lost in Translation soundtrack has netted him a few more hollywood gigs... >>Its the blatant rock & roll cliches in the lyrics I can't get over! 'Country Girl you just keep on keepin' on'...nuff said!<< The whole album is just one long cliche from what I can gather. Dismal stuff. At least they were trying something with Xtrmntr. The new stuff is, as you say, pub rock at its worst. >>Increasingly think PS are just a pub rock band who got v lucky and basically their reputation is down to Andy Weatherall and Alex Pattersons remixing genius on Screamadelica (more so than Hannett with Joy Division/New Order)<< Basically Loaded was the outro of one of the tracks off the 2nd album. Wetherall threw the song away! >>Always interesting Live though.<< Last time I saw them they were far from interesting - dull stooges/stones mulch (this was 1989, I hasten to add). Prior to that they were a very lame version of the Byrds. Whatever they do, Bobby's weedy voice always lets the side down.... >> Last time I saw them in old Leeds T&C, dangerously over-capacity,boiling hot, loads of pissed meatheads there shouting for songs off Screamadelica and most volatile atmosphere I can recall at any gig. PS were rather lumpen that night and Bobby G stormed off after someone threw a plastic pint pot at him. Came back on, started singing that song about 'civil disobedience' and then someone threw another and that was it.<< Like the risible "gimme some truth" Glasto episode last year where bouncers had to drag the old chancer off stage. >>> Then Mani came back on and started chanting 'Manchestah La La La..I'll fookin take all you bastards on' (you can imagine how well this went down in Leeds)<< Have you ever heard the Buzzcocks' Razor Cuts bootleg? Where their pre-Garvey bassist Garth (who, allegedly, Pete fell in love with, but shouldn't have) deals with hecklers by threatening to "kick them round fookin' Leeds". Classic stuff. >>The Longcut album is going down well in my house. Sounds like early Martin Hannett/Factory, monotone vocalist, droney melodies but also with exploding Mogwai guitars.<< They've taken their time, haven't they. Reassuring in a way - sets them aside from trends, and may actually give them some longevity... >> Basically Crispy Ambulance with more hummable tunes and dynamics.<< Ah, young Tim, you realy need to listen to Plateau Phase again.... no shortage of hummability or dynamics.... But I see where you're coming from. They sound very Sonic Youth influenced to me - as if SY were from Manchester and were into Factory/Krautrock instead of US garage rock >> Ocassionally veers into identikit Bloc Party shouty indie schtick but mostly ace.<< I have enjoyed the two singles greatly.... >>I believe NME is also trumpetting the return of Indie Dance. Same as before but with eyeliner and no Flares. Heard a Klaxons tune I quite liked it actually.<< There's been a fair bit of this kind of thing on MTV2 120 Minutes. Rubbish indie guitar bands like Simian reinventing themselves as more interesting electro/sampled beats indie bands. Rather like the Shamen or the Beloved in 1988. [insert line about learning the lessons from history] >>Got to be better than all these friggin Emo bands, Razorlight and Pete Doherty.<< Verily, there is a great deal of utter shite out there at the moment! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:36:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] O.T: useful tool for downloading pretty much anything w/firefox browser........... https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/2390/ Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V9 #160 *******************************