From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V9 #96 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, April 11 2006 Volume 09 : Number 096 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] "With the Pinkness of Hindsight......" ["Keith A" ] [idealcopy] "Chairs" reissue booklet & THAT piano solo (OM) [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] "With the Pinkness of Hindsight......" [Derek White ] [idealcopy] Wire gigposters [Jan Noorda ] [idealcopy] harrumph he sed............... [Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "With the Pinkness of Hindsight......" > 'Math'?? Is this a typo Andrew or maybe Cambridge argot? I ask because > I nearly used it myself a week or so ago, which makes me wonder whether > 'maths' is destined to fall to the American invader - or whether this is > just coincidence. 'Math' is totally out of the question in this household. I still call a Snickers bar a 'Marathon'. K. np T.Rex - Dandy in the Underworld ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:10:55 +0100 (BST) From: PAUL RABJOHN Subject: [idealcopy] CBGB's looking at the pinkflag site for news on this , looks like the boxset will be available in a fortnight which is excellent. here's a question. how many times (and when) did wire play CBGB's? on the "wire page" list of bootlegs it gives 3 performances. first gig is listed as either the 15th (or 21st) july 1978 , where they did 2 shows. then there's a second gig listed as "CBGB's/WPIX-FM" on the 28th july. on pinkflag it says the gig they're releasing was on the 18th july. i'm presuming this is probably the WPIX-FM show , and that's how there's a good tape of it. all a bit confusing though ; if the pinkflag date is right then funny how the wire page doesn't seem clear on either date of the 2 (?) nights they played. for the record , the tracklist given for the radio show on the wire page is ; Men 2nd, Reuters, 106 Beats That, From The Nursery, Dot Dash, Another The Letter, Practice Makes Perfect, Marooned, I Am The Fly, Lowdown, Mercy which sounds promising.....p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:51:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: [idealcopy] "Chairs" reissue booklet & THAT piano solo (OM) Reading through the insert/booklet notes issued with the CM re-release, a couple of things are worth a comment:- Firstly:- although this may well be common knowledge , it seems reasonable to conclude the band thought "Chairs Missing" their best work, which is pretty much what I think, and I know there are others here for whom that is the case, too. The only other candidate for *that* accolade to my mind was "154", but I recall reading (perhaps in that recent 'Guardian' piece by Colin) that by then the Pop/Antipop schism within Wire had opened up, and made recording it a more 'difficult' process. However, the thing that really caught my attention was the statement that the jangly 'pub piano' solo was really only inserted into "Outdoor Miner" because it was considered that at 1 minute 54 seconds long, OM fell too far short of the magical 3 minutes for the perfect pop single, so it was tacked on. Incidentally: 1' 54" ??? Is this where the title came from, I wonder? This debate occasionally arises here about OM, and whilst it's jolly enough, I always considered that the solo per se added nothing to the song , really, and as such could be considered unnecessary 'clutter', which seemed strangely at odds with Wire's usual economy & minimalistic 'just what's required and no more' approach to song construction. I guess the plinky plonky piano chorale will *still* have it's defenders, but now it seems it can be admitted: it's presence had nothing to do with artistic judgements about the song, but rather considerations of airplay/commerce. ( Not that this is entirely unimportant, but...................) Just some idle musings... derek - --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:58:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "With the Pinkness of Hindsight......" Given that it is, after all a contraction of 'mathematics', then the plural form should apply, and the 's' remain. As for Snickers, I still occasionally call them 'Marathon' s, but mostly "Those f***ing things that rotted loads of me teeth"........... Oh, and you can turn them garish colours and call them "M&M"'s , but to me, they're "Treets" with cheaper , nastier choc. Harrumph. Brigadier Smith-Fortesque-Lamppost-Smythe (deceased) Keith A wrote: > 'Math'?? Is this a typo Andrew or maybe Cambridge argot? I ask because > I nearly used it myself a week or so ago, which makes me wonder whether > 'maths' is destined to fall to the American invader - or whether this is > just coincidence. 'Math' is totally out of the question in this household. I still call a Snickers bar a 'Marathon'. K. np T.Rex - Dandy in the Underworld - --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:24:56 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Choc-stock (was "With the Pinkness of Hindsight......") >>Given that it is, after all a contraction of 'mathematics', then the plural form should apply, and the 's' remain.<< Absoultely. Can't stand Americani"z"ed English - even though I have to use it every day for an American customer! >> As for Snickers, I still occasionally call them 'Marathon' s, but mostly "Those f***ing things that rotted loads of me teeth"...........<< Ah, but Snickers was the original name for the bar (named after the inventor's dog, IIRC) but it was perceived as too silly for sensible Britain, hence it was renamed Marathon. Until global marketing and production economies of scale kicked in. >> Oh, and you can turn them garish colours and call them "M&M"'s , but to me, they're "Treets" with cheaper , nastier choc. Harrumph.<< Yep. Peanut Treets became M&Ms; American chocolate (or "candy") is vile. Ever eaten a Hershey bar? Yeuch. Almost no taste at all. Chocolate Treets had earlier become, for no apparent reason, Minstrels. Whatever happened to the toffee Treets? Those could dissolve tooth enamel in seconds. Suspect they still feature in the relaunched Revels, which are marketed using a TV ad that parodies the harrowing Walken/DeNiro Saigon russian roulette scene from The Deer Hunter. Good charlie down the ad agency that day, obviously. That Stuart Maconie's got nothing on me. Mark (look-back bore) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:29:04 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] CBGB's here's a question. how many times (and when) did wire play CBGB's? on the "wire page" list of bootlegs it gives 3 performances. first gig is listed as either the 15th (or 21st) july 1978 , where they did 2 shows. then there's a second gig listed as "CBGB's/WPIX-FM" on the 28th july. on pinkflag it says the gig they're releasing was on the 18th july. i'm presuming this is probably the WPIX-FM show , and that's how there's a good tape of it. all a bit confusing though ; if the pinkflag date is right then funny how the wire page doesn't seem clear on either date of the 2 (?) nights they played. As I understand it, the radio show isn't actually a live performance in front of an audience at CBGBs, but a separate recording in controlled conditiions (either at the club or in a nearby radio studio?) Kevin's book says they played five sets over four nights - 14, 15 (2 shows), 20 and 21 July. So maybe the radio set was designed to promote the second set of shows? Making 18/7 the recording date, and 28/7 the broadcast date?? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:09:23 +0000 From: dpbailey@att.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Choc-stock (was "With the Pinkness of Hindsight......") > Ah, but Snickers was the original name for the bar (named after the > inventor's dog, IIRC) but it was perceived as too silly for sensible Britain, "sensible" britain, whose every other word occasionally seems to be pure baby-talk (i.e. "prezzies" for presents, "hollies" for holidays, etc)? *harumph* dan, who just polished off another hershey's bar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:45:18 +0100 (BST) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] BLURT play London this Thursday (13th) BLURT'S billigerent bleatings beacon Beckett's birthday (Century of Sam) http://www.posteverything.com/news/article.php?id=13943 Fergus http://www.roomtemperature.org http://www.asullenrelapse.blogspot.com http://flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:51:16 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Choc-stock (was "With the Pinkness of Hindsight......") >>"sensible" britain, whose every other word occasionally seems to be pure baby-talk (i.e. "prezzies" for presents, "hollies" for holidays, etc)?<< Ah, but when the Snickers-Mareathon nomenclature debate was raging in the offices of the Mars corporation (some time in the early 1960s) none of those terms would have been allowed. Public mention of "prezzies" would have resulted in a jail term. Of course the baby-talk linguistic corruption is precisely the opinion I have of American abuse of our language. This is the country where the number 1 snack comestible is the "Twinkie" - a tooth-rotting confection made of sugar, synthetic foam, sugar, e-numbers and sugar. >>*harumph*<< And harrumph to you to sir! >>dan, who just polished off another hershey's bar<< You don't knopw what you're missing! Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:45:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: [idealcopy] Wire gigposters Great Mileta from Tux list. http://www.gigposters.com/posters.php?poster=26610 j - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:46:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: [idealcopy] Wire gigposters Great Mileta from Tux list. http://www.gigposters.com/posters.php?poster=26610 http://www.gigposters.com/posters.php?band=10465 j - --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:45:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] harrumph he sed............... >>Oh, and you can turn them garish colours and call them "M&M"'s , but to me, they're "Treets" with cheaper , nastier choc. Harrumph.<< Shouldn't that be 'smarties?.............. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:50:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Choc-stock (was "With the Pinkness of Hindsight......") Dan's been watching too much BBCAmerica............. A - --- dpbailey@att.net wrote: > > Ah, but Snickers was the original name for the bar > (named after the > > inventor's dog, IIRC) but it was perceived as too > silly for sensible Britain, > > "sensible" britain, whose every other word > occasionally seems to be pure baby-talk (i.e. > "prezzies" for presents, "hollies" for holidays, > etc)? > > *harumph* > > dan, who just polished off another hershey's bar Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:01:43 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] harrumph he sed............... Shouldn't that be 'smarties?.............. Smarties still exist - they're like the non-nut M&Ms, without "m" printed on them, and with better chocolate. The nut M&Ms were previously called Peanut Treets. Smarties sadly no longer come in the great tube packaging, complete with little coloured lid, each with a different letter stamped on the back.... Bah. :-( M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:07:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] harrumph he sed...............Pt. 1.2 m&m's don't have peanuts wiv' 'em over here, they're JUST like smarties, (minus the good ol' fat enriched 'english' chocolate)in fact the guy that marketed them over here freely admitted he 'stole' the idea from (rowntrees?) the britts.............A - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >Shouldn't that be 'smarties?..............<< Smarties still exist - they're like the non-nut M&Ms, without "m" printed on them, and with better chocolate. The nut M&Ms were previously called Peanut Treets. Smarties sadly no longer come in the great tube packaging, complete with little coloured lid, each with a different letter stamped on the back.... Bah.<<< shouldn't that be 'bah-humbug'...........A :-( M Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 01:41:19 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "Chairs" reissue booklet & THAT piano solo (OM) Derek White wrote: > Reading through the insert/booklet notes issued with the CM > re-release, a couple of things are worth a comment:- > > Firstly:- although this may well be common knowledge , it seems > reasonable to conclude the band thought "Chairs Missing" their best > work, which is pretty much what I think, and I know there are others > here for whom that is the case, too. I'd say so. You get all sides of Wire, great punk songs, great pop songs, great weird songs and lots of really noisy bits. I'm sure I'm not alone in being a tad disappointed that Wire Mk3 used Pink Flag as a reference point and not CM or 154. NME, Record Collector and a few other reviews seem to still be stuck on Pink Flag as the classic album...perhaps thats the one most in tune with the current Artic/Kaiser/Dirty Pretty Things..or maybe the lazy hacks couldn't be bothered unwrapping the other 2 discs. Incidentally: 1' 54" ??? > > Is this where the title came from, I wonder? It was the number of gigs they had done at that point apparently. > > This debate occasionally arises here about OM, and whilst it's jolly > enough, I always considered that the solo per se added nothing to the > song , really, and as such could be considered unnecessary 'clutter', > which seemed strangely at odds with Wire's usual economy & > minimalistic 'just what's required and no more' approach to song > construction. The piano solo basically is evidence of how well EMI understood the band at the time, and it that sense its relevant. Actually I quite like both versions, and its a pointer to the commercial sounding records like Eardrum Buzz and Kidney Bingoes...I think Wire clearly fancied corrupting the charts as well as the bedrooms of new wave/indie kids. n.p Arthur Russell - First Thought Best Thought (Case in point...heres a guy who made disco tunes, *and* compositions for Tone Generator & Tugboat too!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:48:17 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Choc-stock (was "With the Pinkness of Hindsight......") more like i've spent way too much time on certain mailing lists (*not* this one!) occupied by somewhat flighty people of british -- to be more precise, mancunian -- persuasion. never seen a second of bbc america in my life, actually (i don't believe the local digital cable outfits offer it), & for that matter haven't had access to televised images in more than a year now (which merely means i watch a shameful amount of horror & sf on dvd & vhs). dan > Dan's been watching too much BBCAmerica............. A > > --- dpbailey@att.net wrote: > > > > Ah, but Snickers was the original name for the bar > > (named after the > > > inventor's dog, IIRC) but it was perceived as too > > silly for sensible Britain, > > > > "sensible" britain, whose every other word > > occasionally seems to be pure baby-talk (i.e. > > "prezzies" for presents, "hollies" for holidays, > > etc)? > > > > *harumph* > > > > dan, who just polished off another hershey's bar > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:24:00 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] harrumph he sed............... > AFAIK this packaging is still the Canadian version > > Smarties sadly no longer come in the great tube packaging, complete with > little coloured lid, each with a different letter stamped on the back.... ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V9 #96 ******************************