From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V9 #82 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, March 28 2006 Volume 09 : Number 082 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] O.T: The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard.......... ["Fee] [idealcopy] The Fall, Isaac Hayes and L.Ron Hubbard / Scientology.... [D] Re: [idealcopy] O.T:The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard...Scientology? Don't get me started [Derek White ] RE: [idealcopy] O.T: The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard........ .. ["Cl] Re: [idealcopy] O.T:The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard...Scientology? Don't... [MarkBurs] Re: [idealcopy] O.T:The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard...Scientology? Don't... [Ari ] [idealcopy] OT Tiny Urinal [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] O.T:The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard...Scientology? Don't get me started [Tim ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:06:53 +0100 From: "Fee, Sean" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] O.T: The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard.......... I would appreciate if someone could cut and paste this article and post it here as I have e-mail access only at work. Cheers, Sean - -----Original Message----- From: Ari [mailto:threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com] Sent: 26 March 2006 00:55 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] O.T: The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard.......... ************************************* This e-mail has been received by the Revenue Internet e-mail service. ************************************* http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/features/story/0,,1736069,00.html#article_ continue - -or- http://tinyurl.com/rttkr Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ************************ This message has been delivered to the Internet by the Revenue Internet e-mail service ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 03:50:10 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: [idealcopy] The Fall, Isaac Hayes and L.Ron Hubbard / Scientology.... Happy to oblige,Sean . Not entirely sure if the MajorDomo mail handling software will let it pass, though, as some such cut'n'paste jobs don't get through- it may depend on the lengh of the article , and if so, we should be ok. Here goes............................ ******************************************************************************************************* Cult musicians Scientology has long been regarded as 'a Hollywood thing', but as Isaac Hayes cooks up a storm and quits his role as South Park's Chef, Jonathan Leggett reveals other musical followers Saturday March 25, 2006 The Guardian Earlier this year, the Guardian attempted to track down the 40-odd musicians who have played in the Fall. Unsurprisingly, after their brush with rock'n'roll, most had since gravitated towards respectable professions. But what was a revelation was that none of the band members had anything bad to say about band leader Mark E Smith, and this despite his Brian Clough-style bullying and crackpot musings. Overwhelmingly, they still believed he was a visionary genius. - --------------------------------- As well as prompting a nostalgic blast of Live At The Witch Trials, the piece brought to mind a documentary about the Heaven's Gate religious cult. In the programme, ex-members testified that despite having escaped just before the group's mass suicide in California, they were still convinced leader Marshall Applewhite and his followers had advanced to a level "beyond human". And though one would hesitate to compare a spiky Manchester band with the deeply tragic events of the Heaven's Gate cabal, their uncritical analysis of their former keepers after moving on was undeniably similar. With the Fall's mass membership and their charismatic singer's brainwashing methodology, they always seemed more like a cult than a pop group. And that's not all. In Smith's habit of romancing the young female members of the band, one spies many cult leaders' belief that the path to enlightenment necessitates sex with hot chicks. But the professionally dour Smith - whose titanic ego and punk-derived DIY spirit led him to found his own sect-like enterprise - isn't the only one. There are several other bands who've shaped themselves on the cult model. Dexy's leader Kevin Rowland famously made his mob forswear drugs and drink in favour of sport. They were even forced to go running in the snow when they hit No 1 with Come On Eileen. Meanwhile, the Polyphonic Spree, with their Jesus robes and paeans to the sun, have clearly been taking notes from the commune collectives. Their joyous live shows, however, mark them out as the kind of cult you'd like to be in. For some pop stars, the more established quasi-religious movements such as Scientology fit the bill. And it's not hard to see the appeal. Just as John Travolta was drawn to the movement as a salvation from the vicissitudes of his Hollywood career, L Ron Hubbard's teachings seem to offer musicians an insurance policy against the ignominy of declining chart positions and a life on the chicken in a basket gig circuit. Just as depressing as the news that Bart Simpson is a Scientologist, or more accurately Nancy Cartwright who voices him, is that some of the group's more unlikely acolytes are much-respected musicians. Advocates of the creed include the until now impenetrably cool Beck, funk pioneer Isaac Hayes and, at one stage, lovers' favourite Van Morrison, who devoted an album to founder L Ron Hubbard in the 1980s. Hip-hop pioneer Doug E Fresh, Chaka Khan and Courtney Love, who thanked the church in the sleevenotes of her America's Sweetheart album, are also followers. Even Leonard Cohen flirted with the alien creed when he was feeling even less sunny than usual in the 1990s. Unlike Beck, who has always been cagey about his involvement, Hayes is a more public devotee. After a recent episode of South Park in which Stan got involved with Scientology and which ridiculed their beliefs, Hayes resigned from his role as Chef. Though he claimed his resignation was not specifically linked to the creed spawned from a terrifically bad novel (and which spawned an even more unforgivable movie), one wonders if the two weren't connected. "Religious beliefs are sacred to people, and at all times should be respected and honoured," he said. "I cannot support a show that disrespects those beliefs and practices." And given the series' previous merciless skits on Christianity and Islam, it does seem as if Hayes only took exception when his own beliefs got the frat-boy fun treatment. But for Hayes, leaving the environs of South Park might prove a blessing in disguise. Freed from the obligation of entertaining ladies as the priapic Chef, he'll now be free to concentrate on recording the devotional music he's favoured since his conversion. In 2001 he recorded an album with Doug E Fresh called The Joy Of Creating - The Golden Era Musicians And Friends Play L Ron Hubbard. Over what sounds like the kind of watered down hip-hop backing that served between scenes in the Fresh Prince Of Bel Air, Doug E freestyles in his inimitable style. To his credit, he starts well enough: "Hey! Can someone tell me where the party's at? I see a bassline!" But it's not long before he slips into a milange of self-help speak, laying some grimy scientology learnin' on us. "Let me tell you something. Wax enthusiastic and you'll feel so. A being causes his own feelings. It's the Joy Of Creating. Uh!" Quite. Fresh and Hayes aren't the only ones to have contributed to Scientology's musical canon. Using vocals that Hubbard recorded prior to his death, with contributions from John Travolta, jazz musician Chick Corea (best known for playing on Miles Davis' Bitches Brew) recorded the 1986 album The Road To Freedom. As with Joy Of Creating, the lyrics are rotten. At one stage Travolta croons: "Reality is me. Reality is you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah." But this time it's the musical backing that really nails it. Although praised on websites as "a musical masterpiece" it actually sounds like the kind of jazz noodle that they used to demonstrate CD players in Dixons in the 1980s. Significantly, on both albums there is scant reference to Scientology's more bizarre tenets - for example, that humans are Thetans who have lived through many past lives. And even less visible is the story told to advanced members about a galactic tyrant called Xenu, who dropped us off on Earth way back when in spaceships. It almost seems as if musicians are trying to play down some of the teachings. So while recording or sampling a Charlie Manson track - stand up Guns N' Roses, Boards Of Canada and the Beach Boys - makes for shock rock kudos aplenty, a devotion to Hubbard is kryptonite for credibility. When Beck came clean about his beliefs last year, the disappointed response from fans was palpable. But there are some who emerge from a brush with Hubbard with their musical integrity intact. In the 1960s, Funkadelic's George Clinton promulgated for the kookier end of Scientology, specifically its British offshoot The Process Church Of Final Judgement. The Process Church, who worshipped both God and Satan and believed in imminent Armageddon, were enlisted by Clinton to pen the sleevenotes to his Maggot Brain album. For sure, their musings, such as "Fear, deep within the core of every human being, lurks like a monster," strike a genuinely apocalyptic note. However, because Clinton's shtick and on stage props such as a huge mothership were so brilliantly absurd, the sleevenotes add to his act's appeal. You'd be disappointed if Clinton didn't believe in extraterrestrials. And besides, how could you slate him for following the alien outreach programme when the same album features the lyrics "What is soul? I don't know! Huh! Uh! Soul is a joint rolled in toilet paper." Clinton now seems to have moved on to other sects and conspiracy theories, but it surely can't be long before the Hubbard fundraising initiative produces a Scientology supergroup. Given the pedigree of the musicians who've given their hearts to Hubbard's starship troopers, it might be a pretty good album. Certainly it'll be the oddest record since the the Carpenters' Calling Occupants Of Interplanetary Craft, which the sugary duo laid down for World Contact Day. - --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1"/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:29:09 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T:The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard...Scientology? Don't get me started When I saw the subject line, I couldn't imagine what tied this disparate bunch together.................MES has just lost a few more cred points in my book, as , so far as I can see, the Church of Scientology is the second biggest collective of spiritually vacuous souls, [after the Aetherius society and it's late leader the Rev George King. -However, they at least had the saving grace of being so 'out there' they were entertaining, and unlike the C.of.S, didn't require their adherents to spend a fortune on crappy laughable books as they are drip-fed THE BIG SECRET OF ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE in 32 installments at #20 quid a shot.........] I can't comment about the others, but it's no surprise to me that Smith fell into their clutches, as the Church of Scientology were *very* active in Manchester for a while, working out of a run-down 1st-floor office just around the corner from Chorlton Street Coach station, where their scouting for new suckers :- sorry, devotees was carried out. Years ago, a friend and I once spent a bemusing afternoon in their office filling out a questionaire and being given the 'hard sell' for 'the program' (or at least the first eight volumes that the novices were allowed access to ;-) ), after falling for the old "You're new in town? If you come along with me and just fill out a questionnaire, there's free food and coffee in it for you" from a rather fine looking young woman.(Well, I was young and a tad green at the time, and , sad to say, fell for it) Unsurprisingly, upon seeing our responses to the questionaire (which was a kind of faux psychometric testing thing), she solemnly announced that we were both indeed mightily fucked up souls, but help was at hand of course, in the shape of L.Ron Hubbard's soul cleansing program, in 32 handy-dandy (and very reasonable) stages. Flowcharts were waved in our faces, and the whole thing was dressed up in some pseudo-scientific bollocks that would make even the most credulous trekkie blanche. We finally managed to extricate ourselves from the by now rather persistent young lady and her master/line manager/Yoda figure at the third or fourth attempt without handing over any cash or anything else of importance, and emerged blinking into the July Manchester sunshine, having had one of *the* most bizarre ninety minutes I've ever sat through...... On several subsequent visits to Manchester, I saw their adherents peddling their schtick around the same area, so concluded that they were something of a fixture. The one screamingly clear message I got from that afternoon was that the object of the excercise was to keep the already very wealthy LRH in limos by separating the gullible , the damaged and / or directionless from their cash whilst filling their head with nonsense, and as such , if I could pile all the Scientology recruiters in one of the 'galactic tyrant's' spaceships and fly them into the sun, I would cheerfully do so. If the named musical luminaries have fallen for the CoS, then it's time they got their brains dry-cleaned and starched. Wake up and smell the bullsh*t, folks....... And then there's the 'Children of God' and their "Hookers for Jesus", but that's another story............ Ari wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/features/story/0,,1736069,00.html#article_continue - -or- http://tinyurl.com/rttkr Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1"/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:36:13 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] O.T: The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard........ .. Oh no, not Beck a Scientologist as well! My thoughts on this subject are pretty close to those of the late Mr Zappa's, circa Joe's Garage (which featured L Ron Hoover and the Church of Appliantology, if my memory serves me correctly). Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.clearswift.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:33:23 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T:The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard...Scientology? Don't... >> I can't comment about the others, but it's no surprise to me that Smith fell into their clutches, as the Church of Scientology were *very* active in Manchester for a while, working out of a run-down 1st-floor office just around the corner from Chorlton Street Coach station, where their scouting for new suckers :- sorry, devotees<< Derek, the piece is not saying MES is a Scientologist - rather it says the Fall itself is a kind of cult, with MES as a Hubbard-esque figurehead. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:14:26 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T:The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard...Scientology? Don't... Top MARKs Mr. Bursa (as always).......... A - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > > > >> I can't comment about the others, but it's no > surprise to me that Smith > fell into their clutches, as the Church of > Scientology were *very* active in > Manchester for a while, working out of a run-down > 1st-floor office just > around the corner from Chorlton Street Coach > station, where their scouting for new > suckers :- sorry, devotees<< > > > > Derek, the piece is not saying MES is a > Scientologist - rather it says the > Fall itself is a kind of cult, with MES as a > Hubbard-esque figurehead. > > Mark Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:29:58 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T:The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard...Scientology? Don't... On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 08:33:23AM -0500, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Derek, the piece is not saying MES is a Scientologist - rather it says the > Fall itself is a kind of cult, with MES as a Hubbard-esque figurehead. Beck's been a Scientologist since forever, as well; I think his parents are/were. Nancy Cartwright's the one who depresses me on that list - Courtney Love I didn't know about, but I completely failed to be surprised by that, she's been into everything from heroin to macrame. By the way, the South Park episode which triggered this whole controversy is all over the web. It's ... alright, I guess, worth watching - search on youtube.com. Andrew - -- http://www.lexical.org.uk/ | http://covertmusic.com/ | work: adw27@cam.ac.uk "interrupting my train of thought" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:20:58 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: [idealcopy] Swell Maps' Nikki Sudden Dies = http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=3D= 1002236579 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Swell Maps' Nikki Sudden Dies.url] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:33:37 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Swell Maps' Nikki Sudden Dies > http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=3D= > 1002236579 > http://tinyurl.com/kpynv for your convenience. ^_^ Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:50:17 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: [idealcopy] OT-Scott Walker http://www.scottwalkerfilm.com/blog/?page_id=43 then go to "The Drift" 4 A.D. official album notes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 01:50:51 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] OT Tiny Urinal Keith A wrote: >> Ha! >> >> Am I alone in secretly finding joy in the failure of the Tinyurl system? > > No. > I don't like Tiny URL because I like to see the full URL so I know what I'm clicking on. N.P. Hacienda Classics 3 CD Box Set. "Show me the fucking button" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 02:09:24 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T:The Fall, Isaac Hayes, L.Ron Hubbard...Scientology? Don't get me started Derek White wrote: > > I can't comment about the others, but it's no surprise to me that > Smith fell into their clutches, as the Church of Scientology were > *very* active in Manchester for a while, working out of a run-down > 1st-floor office just around the corner from Chorlton Street Coach > station, where their scouting for new suckers : They're stil very much here, and more upmarket now! They have a 'shop' on Deansgate. Its a prime piece of 'Real Estate' as well, sitting there with staff on duty at all times presumably waiting for people who did too many E's in the early 90s to pass by...they clearly have more money than God. Wankers. I never liked Beck anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:21:47 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Tiny Urinal so other than the site you're going to,what else can a hundred f#*ing letter URL tell you about it's content? (they're not, by any means, all specific now are they Tim?)Nothing more than a tinyurl link can really: (and imagine it's the Gruniad, that's no guarantee you'll like it either') how CAN a long long URL inform you where it's going/what the topic is and, if you can tell you're in the wrong job, as someone pointed out, what's wrong with a bit of 'courtesey' when directing someone to something that they may find of interest in a no-hassle way? (usually anyway) do those of you that gloat over such a tinything as tinyurls server going down also gloat when your email clients server goes down? n.p never mind the bollocks........... - --- Tim wrote: > Keith A wrote: > >> Ha! > >> > >> Am I alone in secretly finding joy in the failure > of the Tinyurl system? > > > > No. > > > > > I don't like Tiny URL because I like to see the full > URL so I know what > I'm clicking on. > > > N.P. Hacienda Classics 3 CD Box Set. "Show me the > fucking button" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V9 #82 ******************************