From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #320 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, November 22 2005 Volume 08 : Number 320 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Fwd: [idealcopy] THE PRISONER - NEW SERIES... [Derek White ] Re: Fwd: [idealcopy] THE PRISONER - NEW SERIES... ["nowhere man" Subject: Re: Fwd: [idealcopy] THE PRISONER - NEW SERIES... A remake ??? Absolute HERESY ! There are 2 UKTV series which are a product of their times and immediate ancestry, this was one, and the Avengers was the other. The I too find the idea of a remake absurd in the extreme, and hope it dies the same critical and commercial death that most of these 'classic' TV series make, e.g. the film re-make of said "Avengers", MI, Addams Family, Beverly Hillbillies etc etc ad nauseam.... I wonder what the 'Liberties' taken amount to? The village, situate in a mystery location.....but lookee over *there*:- ain't that the "Queen Mary" on the horizon? So instead of the stunning location of Clough Ellis's Port Merion, we'll get a few beach-front condos at Long Beach or something similar ? Utterly appalling idea, and indicative of atrophied imagination among program commissioners. giluz wrote: Subject: Re: [idealcopy] THE PRISONER - NEW SERIES... To: Keith A On 11/19/05, Keith A wrote: > Nor will the new series have the same 'arty' feel as the original, Damien > Zimmer, Executive producer of the new series has revealed that the new > version "takes liberties with the original". > > BASTARDS!! Good for them - the whole idea of remaking this series is ridiculous, so I would rather it would be a bad remake - it'd just make the original look even better. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 05:15:49 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] In fact it's the earth which he's known since birth Find it under 'Easy Listening' , would I ? ;-) Fergus Kelly wrote: Attenborough's sound man is the incomparable Chris Watson (ex-Cabaret Voltaire, ex-Hafler Trio), the daddy of 'em all when it comes to field recording... Watson released some CDs of his field recordings on Touch, one of which contains an incredible recording of vultures feasting on a zebra carcass, with clip mics on the ribs, so you are quite literally *in there*... - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:33:59 -0000 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT British Sea Power verdict Not seen them live, but gotta say I've always thought the same. Great look, etc. But found their sounds pretty, well, average. Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: "Idealcopy@Smoe.Org" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 2:11 AM Subject: [idealcopy] OT British Sea Power verdict > I've always thought I should dig BSP but their records never really did > it for me, but thought i'd see them live to see if could 'get' them, so > I went to see them tonight cos someone had a spare ticket. > > Sorry folks, I still don't get it. They sound like a very average 1987 > stylee indie/bunnymen/teardrops type band....only with a stuffed owl > perched on an amp and some branches on stage. > > They are very imaginative in their presentation. Their record sleeves > look brilliant and they have very nice T-shirts which echo Peter > Savilles sleeves for 'Ceremony'. They wear a kind of early Spandau > Ballet/ACR kit on stage which works well. I applaud the idea of playing > odd venues and starting their tour in Barrow.... > > But the music just doesn't live up to it. They use some very obvious, > well worn chord patterns and the kind of melodies where I feel I know > exactly what note is coming next even though I've never heard the song > before. > > Original images. Boring, Cliche-ridden music. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/173 - Release Date: 16/11/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 06:33:30 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT British Sea Power verdict Not unnaturally, seeing as how I only had a 10 minute walk to the gig and I *did* kinda like their records (Well, the 1st is good, the 2nd less so), I went to the Barrow show, to see how they did....... Sad to say I came away a little less impressed with them than I was to start with: I'll attempt to tell you why in the course of this..... This somewhat odd evening began with someone relating the tale of submarine "HMS Perseus" from the stage, but as I was trying to find someone, I didn't really hear much. The guy telling the tale was a fella who's trying to raise some cash and interest to bring a real live retired sub back 'home' to put on display:- not *entirely* sure where he fit in, but there he was. I think perhaps there was a bit of 'forced quirkiness' going on here, of which, more later....................... BSP sorta ambled onstage for their first set of the evening, a set of "B-sides and rarities", and this is the point, to me, where things started to go downhill somewhat. Notwithstanding the implied conceit in being your own opening act, the band took to doing a string of songs that hardly anyone outside of the BSP cognoscenti (mainly their 'travelling fan circus') seemed to know, (which the band didn't exactly help us with by announcing them in any way, shape or form that I heard) and worse still, all of these without exception IIRC were mid-tempo to slow plodders. The majority of the audience (apart from their mobile fanclub) by about four songs in were visibly losing interest, and a lot went in search of the bar when a hideous loud (80-100Hz) hum started up in sympathy with the bass and persisted for two entire songs before it was quelled. By this time, there was a definite impression that the band were losing their audience, as evidenced by the sheer tumult of conversation that could be heard going on in the inter-song gaps. They plodded on for a while longer and trooped off in what appeared to me to be disconsolate manner . The 'next' support act were "Murray and the Skankers":- a bunch of ....well....umm....kids of about 15 , who did a spirited set of rawk songs, and some originals, ALL done ska-stylee, complete with a four piece brass section, and breathed some life back into the proceedings. They had every right to be fazed by the night, as it was by some way the biggest gathering they'd ever played to, but they aquitted themselves admirably I thought. Then BSP came back and did their 'A' material: beginning with 1st album opener "Apologies to insect life", which was a huge improvement on the array of dirges that had gone before. I guess by this time the crowd had had a couple of shandies and perhaps reflected that what had gone on earlier could be regarded as a 'bonus' set, and were prepared to listen afresh. By the time they hit the third song "Remember Me", they had'em and the idiot dancers and crowd-surfers were having a whale of a time: (less so, those getting booted in the face by the shenanigans :-( )..... most of the best material on the night was from their first album, although songs such as "It started on an oily stage" off 'Open Season' held up well. By now, they'd gotten a little more ...um...communicative, but only just. They still weren't telling anyone which song was which, but perhaps this is the norm for BSP ??. The set's 'climax' consisted in part of the 'permanent' guitar player sampling a big, fed-back power chord through his echo m/c, then stuffing the instrument down his shirt while he banged it occasionally, whilst the rest indulged in some free-form noise. This went on for a whole 2 or 3 minutes, and it was dull, dull *dull*, and worse, it was anti-climactic. Then they trooped off in the same sort of desultory manner in which they had appeared. For those interested, the set was :- Overall, it was an Ok gig, with BSP rescuing things after an extremely dodgy start, but the only thing that on the whole will live long in the memory about it was the fact I didn't have a helluva journey after it. The band played well enough, and were well-enough rehearsed for an opening night, but utterly failed to connect with the punters in some important respects. To me, it seemed as though they were playing a gig to a few rows of their 'in-the-know' friends at the front stage centre, and pretty much ignored everyone else. I don't recall a single song being announced, there was no banter with the crowd, no connection, no nothing. Perhaps they are used to playing to houses where everybody is a committed fan: there was certainly no concession to the 'floating spectators' or the 'merely curious' at all......... As a band if they wish to carry on playing to a small-ish but committed fanbase who buy into the 'quirks', they'll probably run for years. If they can get (around) 100 or so of the hardcore to an outpost like this they'll survive, but I fear more 'mainstream' success will elude them for the simple reason that they don't have a vocalist per se, just two singing guitarists: one can't hold a tune, and does the loud songs, the other can't hold a tune, has a more tremulous voice, and gets the 'quieter moments' of the set to do his thing. Despite the production of album 2 being slicker, I fear the band have expended their all their prime ideas on album one, and it's downhill from here. Finally, Tim said "I applaud the idea of them playing 'odd venues' and 'starting the tour in Barrow' ":- well, you might recall I was pretty damned pleased that they'd got a Barrow gig in the schedule, and "the Canteen" is certainly an odd venue, and I would be wholeheartedly applauding with you too, except for one thing:- the sneaking suspicion that they were being 'ironic' in a deeply offensive and condescending way.... IE :- "Oh look, we know it's a toilet but we'll take some indie rawk madness to the culture-starved proles there......." . Certainly, my suspicions that that was the sub-text were not eased on the night, from their first half-assed 'B-sides' set, to their puzzling end and walk-off-without-thanks-& ta-ra-OR-ANY ENCORE' finale. Are they always a bit 'up themselves' and not into encores, anyone who's seen them before?? 6 and a half / 10 Talking to some friends afterwards, it seemed that those who knew BSP's stuff were *reasonably happy* , or like me , even a tad disappointed. Those of the uncommitted who'd gone out of curiosity were NOT by and large converted, and in a way, I can see why. At times, I got the general feeling that the band were really only playing to their mobile fanbase in the first few rows, and it was fuck everyone else. There's something about the rather forced quirkiness that I can't connect with,(I *still* don't get exactly what the (rather sparse) vegetation onstage was/is about , or for that matter, the stuffed heron. Is it a case, of "Hey, look: I'm MAD, MAD as a brush, I am"...? Tim wrote: I've always thought I should dig BSP but their records never really did it for me, but thought i'd see them live to see if could 'get' them, so I went to see them tonight cos someone had a spare ticket. Sorry folks, I still don't get it. They sound like a very average 1987 stylee indie/bunnymen/teardrops type band....only with a stuffed owl perched on an amp and some branches on stage. They are very imaginative in their presentation. Their record sleeves look brilliant and they have very nice T-shirts which echo Peter Savilles sleeves for 'Ceremony'. They wear a kind of early Spandau Ballet/ACR kit on stage which works well. I applaud the idea of playing odd venues and starting their tour in Barrow.... But the music just doesn't live up to it. They use some very obvious, well worn chord patterns and the kind of melodies where I feel I know exactly what note is coming next even though I've never heard the song before. Original images. Boring, Cliche-ridden music. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:55:19 -0600 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] In fact it's the earth which he's known since birth I found my first copy of Pere Ubu - The Modern Dance under Dance Instruction Right next to How to Belly Dance for Your Husband On 11/21/05, Derek White wrote: > > Find it under 'Easy Listening' , would I ? ;-) > > Fergus Kelly wrote: > Attenborough's sound man is the incomparable Chris Watson (ex-Cabaret > Voltaire, ex-Hafler Trio), the daddy of 'em all when it comes to field > recording... > Watson released some CDs of his field recordings on Touch, one of which > contains an incredible recording of vultures feasting on a zebra carcass, > with clip > mics on the ribs, so you are quite literally *in there*... > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:31:24 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: Fwd: [idealcopy] THE PRISONER - NEW SERIES... On 11/21/05, Derek White wrote: > > A remake ??? Absolute HERESY ! > There are 2 UKTV series which are a product of their times and immediate > ancestry, this was one, and the Avengers was the other. > What, just two? I could think of a dozen at least (probably much more). With all due respect to those two series(es? how do u say series in plural?), they're just part of quite a big group of other works which contained some of the best material ever made for film or video ever. cheers giluz, a proud anglophile - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:24:38 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Fwd: [idealcopy] Invalid county me arse ! - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: giluz Date: Nov 21, 2005 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Invalid county me arse ! To: David McKenzie On 11/21/05, David McKenzie wrote: > > > ((( For some reason, my location is listed as "Dublin, > > Dublin (Ireland)"...why would anyone list the city > > twice ? Not logical captain. Then when I entered > > simply "Dublin (Ireland)" or "Smithfield, Dublin > > (Ireland)" it says "Invalid county" The fuckin' cheek > > ! Centuries of Brit rule, now this ?? ;-) > And mine's listed as Tel-Aviv Jaffa, Tel-Aviv, Israel Tel-Aviv Jaffa is the official name (TA started as a small suburb of Jaffa and outgrew its now sadly neglected parent quite fast) and is not part of a larger entity called TA. Probably a Google bug. cheers giluz - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:10:04 -0800 From: "nowhere man" Subject: Re: Fwd: [idealcopy] THE PRISONER - NEW SERIES... the avengers are still my fav show ever but i wanna put in a word for FANDERSON.......fireball xl5, thunderbirds, supercar, ad infinitum - ----- Original Message ----- From: "giluz" To: Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 7:31 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [idealcopy] THE PRISONER - NEW SERIES... > On 11/21/05, Derek White wrote: > > > > A remake ??? Absolute HERESY ! > > There are 2 UKTV series which are a product of their times and immediate > > ancestry, this was one, and the Avengers was the other. > > > > What, just two? I could think of a dozen at least (probably much more). > > With all due respect to those two series(es? how do u say series in > plural?), they're just part of quite a big group of other works which > contained some of the best material ever made for film or video ever. > > cheers > giluz, a proud anglophile > > -- > Now playing: > http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:34:16 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT British Sea Power verdict Derek White wrote: > Notwithstanding the implied conceit in being your own opening act, > the band took to doing a string of songs that hardly anyone outside > of the BSP cognoscenti (mainly their 'travelling fan circus') seemed > to know, > The 'next' support act were "Murray and the Skankers":- a bunch of > ....well....umm....kids of about 15 , who did a spirited set of rawk > songs, and some originals, ALL done ska-stylee, We got The Pipettes, a sort of c86-esque girl group in matching outfits...Banarama meets St Etienne. > Finally, Tim said "I applaud the idea of them playing 'odd venues' > and 'starting the tour in Barrow' ":- well, you might recall I was > pretty damned pleased that they'd got a Barrow gig in the schedule, > and "the Canteen" is certainly an odd venue, and I would be > wholeheartedly applauding with you too, except for one thing:- the > sneaking suspicion that they were being 'ironic' in a deeply > offensive and condescending way.... BSP have done a split 7" with The Wurzels, which is either a bit of a laugh..or a bit painfully wacky and "maaad". Can't quite decide. > > Talking to some friends afterwards, it seemed that those who knew > BSP's stuff were *reasonably happy* , or like me , even a tad > disappointed. Those of the uncommitted who'd gone out of curiosity > were NOT by and large converted, I was hoping they'd be really good so I could justify buying one of their smart T Shirts! and in a way, I can see why. At > times, I got the general feeling that the band were really only > playing to their mobile fanbase in the first few rows, and it was > fuck everyone else. Very much so, reminded me of when I saw Belle & Sebastian at a festival..with their cutie fanbase folllowing them around all weekend. Noticeably venue was about 3/4 full, whereas last year they sold out well in advance of their Academy gig. They'd better buck their ideas up! Not averse to bands being a bit aloof and detached though, like New Order used to be before they became Status Quo ("Woooh...are y'all having a good time!?"). ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #320 *******************************