From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #312 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, November 14 2005 Volume 08 : Number 312 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] OT-Gravennhurst ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] [idealcopy] Neubauten DVD's Pt. 5.8 [Ari ] [idealcopy] Bruce Gilbert on Mother of all Parties [Jan Noorda ] Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour ["nowhere man" ] [idealcopy] egads! [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour ["nowhere man" ] Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour ["nowhere man" ] Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour ["nowhere man" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! ["Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] OT-Gravennhurst anyone heard new Gravenhurst? it is brilliant record, one of best this year so far.. i'll cannot take it off.. ( compared to new Depeche Mode-i expected much more..) now playing- Wire/Scottish Play ( finally get it..as birthday present) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 03:01:45 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Neubauten DVD's Pt. 5.8 Has anyone NOT received them yet? A - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:45:19 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Noorda Subject: [idealcopy] Bruce Gilbert on Mother of all Parties Not sure this is what Fergus mentioned already some time ago. But I think it is not bad to mention it one more time. Bruce is performing the coming saturday 19th of November in the center of London at Beaconsfield http://www.beaconsfield.ltd.uk/ce_event_details.html#party j - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:29:02 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] For Paul Rabjohn and others............ .......who've also lost it:The Neubauten Trax. 1)Y|-Gung (7:16) 2)Befindlichkeit des Landes (6:10) 3)Haus der L|ge + Armenia (10:27) 4)Rampe (5:25) 5)Z.N.S. (4:43) 6)Youme & Meyou (3:21) 7)Dead Friends (Around the Corner) (5:06) 8)Redukt (9:53) 9)Ein leichtes leises Sduseln (6:05) 10)Salamandrina (5:42) 11)Sabrina (5:17) 12)Perpetuum Mobile (10:54) 13)Sehnsucht (3:55) 14)Draussen ist feindlich (1:32) 15)Selbsportrdt mit Kater (6:20) 16)Was ist ist (6:01) 17)Kalte Sterne (3:54) 18)Ende Neu (5:39) 19)Alles (6:05) 20)Grundstueck (8:05) - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:30:18 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bruce Gilbert on Mother of all Parties Nice to see Bruce heading the list.. Jan Noorda wrote: Not sure this is what Fergus mentioned already some time ago. But I think it is not bad to mention it one more time. Bruce is performing the coming saturday 19th of November in the center of London at Beaconsfield http://www.beaconsfield.ltd.uk/ce_event_details.html#party j - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:46:47 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour So, a 'tax dodge', eh?? Perhaps there exists some unusually obtuse parallel universe where, bunging seven-digit sums at a 'charity' *may* get you financial advantage, but I can't for the life of me work out quite how you give away a pile like *that* and then run out in front of the game v the taxman? If what you're suggesting is that he did so to get into a lower tax bracket, I find that hard to believe:- his earnings from PF's back catalogue are probably so stratospheric of themselves that many such 'dodges' would be required to benefit, fiscally speaking: to the point where you'd probably be better off stumping up in the first place............although if there are any accountants out there who could tell me just *how* this donation dodge could work to the advantage of the person who is in Gordon Brown's crosshairs, I'd be interested to hear it.........just in case...... ;-) Anyhow, in the end, it may have been a choice: fork it over to 'the government', who can go and fritter it away bombing the shit out of hillsides in Afghanistan, doing likewise protecting oil-grabbers in Iraq, chucking about bungs as 'sweeteners' so BAe , ICI, etc etc can get lucrative arms deals overseas etc, OR you could give it to an outfit who do very useful and necessary work. Like 'Shelter' or 'C.at C'...... Ok,Ok I know this is gross oversimplification: yes, taxes *do* fund healthcare(at least it does here), schools, pensions etc:- but nowhere near 100% of what the taxman takes goes on what most rational people would call socially desirable programs; so if you *can* pull a dodge that gets 100% of [whatever sum], to projects / programs you believe to be 'good', isn't that a good thing? I think some of the problem here is that there's a section of the population that have *such* a visceral hatred of all things that Pink Floyd appear to represent (i.e. overblown 'prog' noodling played by ageing millionaires) that they cannot concede for one moment that a member of such an outfit could possibly act from any altruistic , benevolent desire to do a bit of good. Or are you saying that you would rather he'd have either a) given it to the government to spend a wodge on the above-mentioned munitions or b) had it sit in a Swiss bank account clocking up interest, (possibly in a relative's name as a one-off tax-exempt gift) either of which he could have done with some ease, I'd say. I also suspect that the taxman has a considerable bite out of the PF 'industry' every year, no matter *what* dodges are employed anyhow. Just so people don't get the idea I'm some sort of cheerleader for Dave Gilmour, & to widen this out a bit, I'd like to point out that by no means am I president of the Bill Gates Fan Club, either:- in many ways, the business practices and general modus operandi of Microsoft Corp make him a first cousin to Beelzebub, in my eyes:- however, you *have* to give the guy *some* credit:- Gate's (& Wife's) charitable foundation a couple of years back stumped up an utterly collossal sum of money to fund a program in Africa to treat the horrendous problem of so-called "River Blindness". [For the uninitiated, As it's name implies, this is a condition leading to sight loss caused by the ingestion of parasitic larvae (spyrocytes?) in untreated river water: it's widespread across parts of Africa, but eminently treatable by a fairly cheap drug program] Now, I don't know about you, but most people would say 'hats off to Bill Gates" for this act. Unless you would rather he took options a) or b) outlined above ? Alright, if you're cynical, you'll argue that "it's some sort of tax dodge":- howver, it's the OUTCOME that interests me, and if people have their sight saved, THAT is a RESULT. If, in Gilmour's case, it means someone doesn't die from hypothermia, or contract TB through sleeping rough, or living in poor housing, THAT TOO IS A RESULT. Someday, we can have a discussion about the whole notion of 'charity': whether it is on the whole a good thing or a disgusting figleaf: an excuse for governments NOT to address certain societal problems (via taxation), but that's not for here and now....... Sometimes, even billionaires have altruistic, humanitarian ideas, you know........... ;-) You are a hard person to please, I suspect. Most of us would fall short of your expectations, I'd guess? unspecified recipient wrote: they're all wankers. so what if gilmour "gave the proceeds to the poor". i can recognize a tax dodge when i see one. the guy's an old tosser and will only become more so - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:07:59 -0800 From: "nowhere man" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour in hollywood i work for a lot of enormously rich people. even myself, have cheated the tax man by donating things and/or running up losses to defer or nullify tax debt. even the apparently rich run afoul somewhat financially and in order to save other assetts sacrifice some others. i would rather sell things and give the proceeds to the poor than give them to the infernal revenue service. in the u.k. he's probably in what, 98% tax bracket? that's what charlie watts said the stones were in. nowadays if you are signed you are lucky to get a dollar a copy per cd. that split with the rest of the writers in the band, and musicians that don't write....however that is divided. factor in a divorce or two. you are losing money. there is also money to be made...or at least not spent...in losing money. i am basing my opinion on only what i know, the states...i am not empirical about it and am open to learning otherwise. being right about anything is an enormous burden.....having to be right all the time......would be the death of me. i am not attached to my opinion either. i just wanted to throw another variable out there. some of the older crowd will remember quicksilver messenger service. i had a frined in san francisco who went to a jobsite as laborer for a roofer. the song '(have another hit.of) fresh air came on the radio. the roofer he was working for said "ah, another few cents for the ex-wife and my lawyer." sad state....they were a pretty good band before they went aor and did stuff like have another hit........ back to the tax dodge question....if mr. gilmour is enormously wealthy, don't you suppose attorneys did this for him. do you picture him sitting in a flat, over tea, with a large box of papers on his chrome dinette trying to figure out what he can do to help the poor. once again, i may be wrong i just basically wanted to challenge apriori assumptions and insert a punk perspective.....i.e. sex pistols comments re: iggy pop....'e's an old wanker now and wears glasses with no actual glass in them" or pete townsend."e's a boring old fart" etc. i listen to steve jones radio lunch hour here in l.a. and he plays and listens to the same people he dissed. it's all and was all in good fun. ----- Original Message ----- From: Derek White To: upagainstthewall@gmail.com ; idealcopy Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour So, a 'tax dodge', eh?? Perhaps there exists some unusually obtuse parallel universe where, bunging seven-digit sums at a 'charity' *may* get you financial advantage, but I can't for the life of me work out quite how you give away a pile like *that* and then run out in front of the game v the taxman? If what you're suggesting is that he did so to get into a lower tax bracket, I find that hard to believe:- his earnings from PF's back catalogue are probably so stratospheric of themselves that many such 'dodges' would be required to benefit, fiscally speaking: to the point where you'd probably be better off stumping up in the first place............although if there are any accountants out there who could tell me just *how* this donation dodge could work to the advantage of the person who is in Gordon Brown's crosshairs, I'd be interested to hear it.........just in case...... ;-) Anyhow, in the end, it may have been a choice: fork it over to 'the government', who can go and fritter it away bombing the shit out of hillsides in Afghanistan, doing likewise protecting oil-grabbers in Iraq, chucking about bungs as 'sweeteners' so BAe , ICI, etc etc can get lucrative arms deals overseas etc, OR you could give it to an outfit who do very useful and necessary work. Like 'Shelter' or 'C.at C'...... Ok,Ok I know this is gross oversimplification: yes, taxes *do* fund healthcare(at least it does here), schools, pensions etc:- but nowhere near 100% of what the taxman takes goes on what most rational people would call socially desirable programs; so if you *can* pull a dodge that gets 100% of [whatever sum], to projects / programs you believe to be 'good', isn't that a good thing? I think some of the problem here is that there's a section of the population that have *such* a visceral hatred of all things that Pink Floyd appear to represent (i.e. overblown 'prog' noodling played by ageing millionaires) that they cannot concede for one moment that a member of such an outfit could possibly act from any altruistic , benevolent desire to do a bit of good. Or are you saying that you would rather he'd have either a) given it to the government to spend a wodge on the above-mentioned munitions or b) had it sit in a Swiss bank account clocking up interest, (possibly in a relative's name as a one-off tax-exempt gift) either of which he could have done with some ease, I'd say. I also suspect that the taxman has a considerable bite out of the PF 'industry' every year, no matter *what* dodges are employed anyhow. Just so people don't get the idea I'm some sort of cheerleader for Dave Gilmour, & to widen this out a bit, I'd like to point out that by no means am I president of the Bill Gates Fan Club, either:- in many ways, the business practices and general modus operandi of Microsoft Corp make him a first cousin to Beelzebub, in my eyes:- however, you *have* to give the guy *some* credit:- Gate's (& Wife's) charitable foundation a couple of years back stumped up an utterly collossal sum of money to fund a program in Africa to treat the horrendous problem of so-called "River Blindness". [For the uninitiated, As it's name implies, this is a condition leading to sight loss caused by the ingestion of parasitic larvae (spyrocytes?) in untreated river water: it's widespread across parts of Africa, but eminently treatable by a fairly cheap drug program] Now, I don't know about you, but most people would say 'hats off to Bill Gates" for this act. Unless you would rather he took options a) or b) outlined above ? Alright, if you're cynical, you'll argue that "it's some sort of tax dodge":- howver, it's the OUTCOME that interests me, and if people have their sight saved, THAT is a RESULT. If, in Gilmour's case, it means someone doesn't die from hypothermia, or contract TB through sleeping rough, or living in poor housing, THAT TOO IS A RESULT. Someday, we can have a discussion about the whole notion of 'charity': whether it is on the whole a good thing or a disgusting figleaf: an excuse for governments NOT to address certain societal problems (via taxation), but that's not for here and now....... Sometimes, even billionaires have altruistic, humanitarian ideas, you know........... ;-) You are a hard person to please, I suspect. Most of us would fall short of your expectations, I'd guess? unspecified recipient wrote: they're all wankers. so what if gilmour "gave the proceeds to the poor". i can recognize a tax dodge when i see one. the guy's an old tosser and will only become more so - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:27:16 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] egads! eh what? - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:36:42 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour On 11/14/05, Derek White wrote: > > so if you *can* pull a dodge that gets 100% of [whatever sum], to projects > / programs you believe to be 'good', isn't that a good thing? But this is the capitalist method - cut welfare and give more to the rich, and in return give them good reasons to donate instead of the government investing this money for the people it is supposed to serve. Private charity organisations, dependant on the good will of some rich folks replaced the state's well fare institutions. btw, you would have to be mega-rich to make it profitable for you, which is the whole point. I think some of the problem here is that there's a section of the population > that have *such* a visceral hatred of all things that Pink Floyd appear to > represent (i.e. overblown 'prog' noodling played by ageing millionaires) > that they cannot concede for one moment that a member of such an outfit > could possibly act from any altruistic , benevolent desire to do a bit of > good. I couldn't care less - whether they do anything good or bad with the money they get doesn't make their music any better, which is what's important to me Of course I would rather he gave the money to charity, regardless of his reasons, but the music's still shite. Now, I don't know about you, but most people would say 'hats off to Bill > Gates" for this act. Unless you would rather he took options a) or b) > outlined above ? I do appreciate Gates' donations. Again, it does not change my opinions on how he got his fortune. Should I be a U2 fan because of what Bono did for Africa? Do you know how many crap musicians there are that are also charming, witty and great people to be around with? cheers giluz - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:17:44 -0800 From: "nowhere man" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour i didn't assign a value judgement in my statement.......a good or bad.........there is just often other reasons for what on the surface seem to be good or bad deeds. i am unwilling to punch his ticket without doing more. bono does wonderful things but i hear he's a prick. there was nothing more edifying than seeing saint john lennon treating the "hired help" i.e. engineer like shit while doing back up vocals with phil spector........working class hereo indeed. or saint bob marley with 20 illegimate children..............being raised by his widow. desire for altitude is what make the comedowns on the other side seem so hard. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "giluz" To: Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour > On 11/14/05, Derek White wrote: > > > > so if you *can* pull a dodge that gets 100% of [whatever sum], to projects > > / programs you believe to be 'good', isn't that a good thing? > > > But this is the capitalist method - cut welfare and give more to the rich, > and in return give them good reasons to donate instead of the government > investing this money for the people it is supposed to serve. Private charity > organisations, dependant on the good will of some rich folks replaced the > state's well fare institutions. > > btw, you would have to be mega-rich to make it profitable for you, which is > the whole point. > > I think some of the problem here is that there's a section of the population > > that have *such* a visceral hatred of all things that Pink Floyd appear to > > represent (i.e. overblown 'prog' noodling played by ageing millionaires) > > that they cannot concede for one moment that a member of such an outfit > > could possibly act from any altruistic , benevolent desire to do a bit of > > good. > > > I couldn't care less - whether they do anything good or bad with the money > they get doesn't make their music any better, which is what's important to > me Of course I would rather he gave the money to charity, regardless of his > reasons, but the music's still shite. > > > Now, I don't know about you, but most people would say 'hats off to Bill > > Gates" for this act. Unless you would rather he took options a) or b) > > outlined above ? > > > I do appreciate Gates' donations. Again, it does not change my opinions on > how he got his fortune. > > Should I be a U2 fan because of what Bono did for Africa? Do you know how > many crap musicians there are that are also charming, witty and great people > to be around with? > > cheers > giluz > -- > Now playing: > http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:00:02 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour To paragraph 1) Regarding 'welfare atrophy' being replaced by rich folks patronage:- This was precisely what I was alluding to when I said "whether the notion of 'charity' is a discraceful fig-leaf for inaction by [government]"[is questionable]....... And you'll have spotted that beyond one mention of a certain melodiousness to his playing, I haven't referred to Gilmour *or* PF's music. I'm not sure it's a factor in the question of any philanthropic inclinations he may or may not have. BUT: Hold on...\ IF =true THEN GO TO LINE 10 10 opinion$= "...I *Still* say there is a certain Floydian tinge to some of "Chairs.." and "154". And that, to my ears, ain't necessarily a bad thing to say.........but you takes your choice." 20 PROC Gilmour:END / reset ? ;-) - --- giluz wrote: > On 11/14/05, Derek White > wrote: > > > > so if you *can* pull a dodge that gets 100% of > [whatever sum], to projects > > / programs you believe to be 'good', isn't that a > good thing? > > > But this is the capitalist method - cut welfare and > give more to the rich, > and in return give them good reasons to donate > instead of the government > investing this money for the people it is supposed > to serve. Private charity > organisations, dependant on the good will of some > rich folks replaced the > state's well fare institutions. > > btw, you would have to be mega-rich to make it > profitable for you, which is > the whole point. > > I think some of the problem here is that there's a > section of the population > > that have *such* a visceral hatred of all things > that Pink Floyd appear to > > represent (i.e. overblown 'prog' noodling played > by ageing millionaires) > > that they cannot concede for one moment that a > member of such an outfit > > could possibly act from any altruistic , > benevolent desire to do a bit of > > good. > > > I couldn't care less - whether they do anything good > or bad with the money > they get doesn't make their music any better, which > is what's important to > me Of course I would rather he gave the money to > charity, regardless of his > reasons, but the music's still shite. > > > Now, I don't know about you, but most people would > say 'hats off to Bill > > Gates" for this act. Unless you would rather he > took options a) or b) > > outlined above ? > > > I do appreciate Gates' donations. Again, it does not > change my opinions on > how he got his fortune. > > Should I be a U2 fan because of what Bono did for > Africa? Do you know how > many crap musicians there are that are also > charming, witty and great people > to be around with? > > cheers > giluz > -- > Now playing: > http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:25:42 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour Yep, I remember them, one of SF's finest of the late 60's period, with the wonderful (and late)John Cipollina on guitar. The "Mona/Calvary" Side of "Happy trails" is a classic of that period. The 1st album was also good in places, notably the lenghy opus , "The Fool." "Have another Hit" (off the next album "Just for love")was pretty lame, ,but by then they had a guy called Dino Valente added to the usual 4. Basically, when Dino Valente wasn't in jail,he played with them: and this was their duff period. Without him,a much better proposition. "Happy trails" has arguably aged rather better than a lot of other West Coast stuff, but they went downhill fast for sure. - --- nowhere man wrote: > > some of the older crowd will remember quicksilver > messenger service. i had a > frined in san francisco who went to a jobsite as > laborer for a roofer. the > song '(have another hit.of) fresh air came on the > radio. the roofer he was > working for said "ah, another few cents for the > ex-wife and my lawyer." sad > state....they were a pretty good band before they > went aor and did stuff like > have another hit........ > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:40:49 -0800 From: "nowhere man" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour they were still playing out in the early 80's as quicksilver and then into the early 90's as the dinosaurs. i opened up for them (and pat benatar and sammy hagar at a little hole in the wall in sf in 97. my band opened for wire back then at the mabuhay gardens....in attendance was barry melton of cj & the fish, jack cassidy......but he was always there, pearl harbour, i think helios creed was there....i was in an absolutely horrible band called 'squeezing blood from stones' with an electric bassoon player. we had out local chart topper 'the day it rained meat' idea courtesy the renowned charles fort. i still have the old flyer here somewhere. except for us, i think it was a great show. i went on from that to the ophelias. pride of man garnered some air play here...the other it's been too long...i'm with you on the happy trails lp. wasn't dino paroled to make whatcha gonna do about me? gawd that aor rock.......just downloaded a tom donahue restrospective...and that stuff is on there. the first time i ever tuned into ksan, san francisco, they were playing 'give peace a chance" and then played for the first time ever 1969 by the stooges........what a dichtomy!? that album ruined my life forever. i shall be forever greatful. i rather prefer the moby grape stuff to the overall large body of quicksilver's work...the first couple of sons of champlin lp's with their spot on right on psychedelic messages are essential to one's collection. also 'slick dick" from love's forever changes and just prior to that 7 + 7 is...funny to think of the doors wanting to be as big ass love....there's a band for you.....the jailbirds....arthur lee, buddy miles, a host of others. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek White" To: "nowhere man" Cc: "wi re" Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour > > Yep, I remember them, one of SF's finest of the late > 60's period, with the wonderful (and late)John > Cipollina on guitar. The "Mona/Calvary" Side of "Happy > trails" is a classic of that period. The 1st album was > also good in places, notably the lenghy opus , "The > Fool." > "Have another Hit" (off the next album "Just for > love")was pretty lame, ,but by then they had a guy > called Dino Valente added to the usual 4. > > Basically, when Dino Valente wasn't in jail,he played > with them: and this was their duff period. Without > him,a much better proposition. > > "Happy trails" has arguably aged rather better than a > lot of other West Coast stuff, but they went downhill > fast for sure. > > > --- nowhere man wrote: > > > > > some of the older crowd will remember quicksilver > > messenger service. i had a > > frined in san francisco who went to a jobsite as > > laborer for a roofer. the > > song '(have another hit.of) fresh air came on the > > radio. the roofer he was > > working for said "ah, another few cents for the > > ex-wife and my lawyer." sad > > state....they were a pretty good band before they > > went aor and did stuff like > > have another hit........ > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:06:24 -0800 From: "nowhere man" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek White" To: "nowhere man" Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour > Barry Melton and Jack Cassady....what players. yeah man............that and the bass on pussyface-j.cope huh? > > Casady had THE best bass sound ever 4me. No question. > And a fucking awesome style....I saw him with Hot Tuna > in 76 at their Knebworth UK set, and they were ace: a > really hard power trio style. Seems to have hands like > shovels. The sound of Cassady's bass and Grace > Slick's voice is one of the greatest, if not THE > greatest combination of musical sounds ever. yeah..x sometimes is reminiscent of them but not too close..... bear melt on pointed little head it cool too. > > As for Barry Melton, his finest hour was his playing > on "Silver and Gold" off of C.J.Fish. ..yeah electric music for the mind and body was my fav of theirs and also the 1st released psyhe album, legend has it. how 'bout the pretty things 'sf sorrow' 1st rock opera? Not a great > album, but *that* track still lights all my > lamps...sublime. > > Still got Loads of stuff By the Airplane, me too The First 2 > Country Joe & the fish lp's & some Hot Tuna Stuff, but > no Arther Lee /Love, but "Forever Changes" IS a > classic. I kinda like "4 Sail", too which not many > people do...... > > Heresy, though:- the Dead never *really* did it for > me:- I was glad they existed, but didn't really 'get' > them. me either! i opened up for left over salmon a few years ago....don't know why they picked us, the slow poisoners to do it. it was at the fillmore west. we had all these large props that said love on them 3/4s through the set and they were all pictures of 19th century surgeon's with their bone saws. all the songs were about commiting suicide and/or killing others. Apart from "Montains of the Moon" off > Aoxomoxoa, and "Terrapin Station" , which is regarded > as a minor, lete-period release. "American Beauty" I > like, but 'psychedelic', it ain't.....agreed...the heavy scent of patchouli makes me naseous even though i liked donovan....john paul jones...love the sporting life he did with diamanda galas. i was her night time answering service operator for a few months years ago. nothing exciting on that front to report. > > Never heard much by Moby Grape, though. Certainly they > were one Bay Area band that passed me by, but ,hey, > there was Blue Cheer ah, blue cheer were god.....still are in my book...leigh stephens solo stuff is a little iffy. mint tattoo was pretty good and had a couple of members as did oxford circle. how 'bout peanut butter conspiracy, sea train, ultimate spinach "The United States of > America"...HP Lovecraft....:-) lovecraft were super cool. how bout john's children...we covered midsummer night's scene in the ophelias. > > > --- nowhere man wrote: > > > they were still playing out in the early 80's as > > quicksilver and then into > > the early 90's as the dinosaurs. i opened up for > > them (and pat benatar and > > sammy hagar at a little hole in the wall in sf in > > 97. my band opened for > > wire back then at the mabuhay gardens....in > > attendance was barry melton of > > cj & the fish, jack cassidy......but he was always > > there, pearl harbour, i > > think helios creed was there....i was in an > > absolutely horrible band called > > 'squeezing blood from stones' with an electric > > bassoon player. we had out > > local chart topper 'the day it rained meat' idea > > courtesy the renowned > > charles fort. i still have the old flyer here > > somewhere. except for us, i > > think it was a great show. i went on from that to > > the ophelias. > > > > pride of man garnered some air play here...the other > > it's been too > > long...i'm with you on the happy trails lp. wasn't > > dino paroled to make > > whatcha gonna do about me? gawd that aor > > rock.......just downloaded a tom > > donahue restrospective...and that stuff is on there. > > the first time i ever > > tuned into ksan, san francisco, they were playing > > 'give peace a chance" and > > then played for the first time ever 1969 by the > > stooges........what a > > dichtomy!? that album ruined my life forever. i > > shall be forever greatful. > > > > i rather prefer the moby grape stuff to the overall > > large body of > > quicksilver's work...the first couple of sons of > > champlin lp's with their > > spot on right on psychedelic messages are essential > > to one's collection. > > also 'slick dick" from love's forever changes and > > just prior to that 7 + 7 > > is...funny to think of the doors wanting to be as > > big ass love....there's a > > band for you.....the jailbirds....arthur lee, buddy > > miles, a host of others. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Derek White" > > To: "nowhere man" > > Cc: "wi re" > > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 1:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Gilmour > > > > > > > > > > Yep, I remember them, one of SF's finest of the > > late > > > 60's period, with the wonderful (and late)John > > > Cipollina on guitar. The "Mona/Calvary" Side of > > "Happy > > > trails" is a classic of that period. The 1st album > > was > > > also good in places, notably the lenghy opus , > > "The > > > Fool." > > > "Have another Hit" (off the next album "Just for > > > love")was pretty lame, ,but by then they had a guy > > > called Dino Valente added to the usual 4. > > > > > > Basically, when Dino Valente wasn't in jail,he > > played > > > with them: and this was their duff period. Without > > > him,a much better proposition. > > > > > > "Happy trails" has arguably aged rather better > > than a > > > lot of other West Coast stuff, but they went > > downhill > > > fast for sure. > > > > > > > > > --- nowhere man wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > some of the older crowd will remember > > quicksilver > > > > messenger service. i had a > > > > frined in san francisco who went to a jobsite as > > > > laborer for a roofer. the > > > > song '(have another hit.of) fresh air came on > > the > > > > radio. the roofer he was > > > > working for said "ah, another few cents for the > > > > ex-wife and my lawyer." sad > > > > state....they were a pretty good band before > > they > > > > went aor and did stuff like > > > > have another hit........ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 01:00:29 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! I listened to Aerial three or four times at the weekend while driving between VdGG gigs. The packaging encourages you to put the CDs on in a specific order. A Sea of Honey starts with the single King of the Mountain, which has grown on me over the weeks to the extent that it's now part of the furniture. The next track, Pi, has a great melody but lyrically is bizarre, being effectively made up of the first 100 or so numbers on Pi (although there's a spurious vague storyline around this to give context). A great learning aid for any A level student I'd suggest. The next track, Bertie, is that dread idea - a love song to one's young child. Not even Hammill could pull this off when he tried it and I fear Kate doesn't either. It's clammy. It just makes you think of her shouting at him when he's fifteen and he's come home drunk and spewed on the stairs. Not that that happened to me you understand. Musically again it's interesting however, appropriating a Renaissance feel. Mrs Bartolozzi is rather unexpected being an erotic song about housework which incredibly works very well. Kate has always been able to turn on the juices and she does so highly effectively here with an incredible vocal performance over a piano backing. Rather than go through a blow by blow track I think I've given a flavour here - this is a deeply eccentric record, in fact boggling in its range of subject matter and treatment. It's no wonder Lee Perry likes her - she is truly as barmy as he is. The second CD - A Sky of Honey - appears to be a concept album based apparently around the song of the blackbird. Or something. It incorporates Rolf Harris on vocals, some fretless bass, mass singing to a flamenco rhythm and some incredibly beautiful music. Similar in scope to the second side of Hounds of Love and it will take many more listens to plumb this. It's a much better album that The Red Shoes (although there's nothing on it to touch Moments of Pleasure as far as I'm concerned) and possibly a great one although it's difficult to say yet whether its eccentricities will becoming winning or irritating over time. She's out there on a limb looking at people like Bjork and Scott Walker and it's a good place to be. Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 02:51:58 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bruce Gilbert on Mother of all Parties Thats what you call a mixed bag of entertainment. I'm glad he's heading over "..Kind of an English, modern version of Susan Vega" (is that some kind of ironic in-joke?) In my experience of dealing with DJs/artists, they've got far to much on that bill and it looks like a night that will descend into chaos! Anyone going? Ari wrote: > Nice to see Bruce heading the list.. > > Jan Noorda wrote: Not sure this is what > Fergus mentioned already some time ago. But I think it is not bad to > mention it one more time. Bruce is performing the coming saturday > 19th of November in the center of London at Beaconsfield > http://www.beaconsfield.ltd.uk/ce_event_details.html#party > > j > > > > --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple > travel sites in one click. > > > > --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple > travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:40:59 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! >> That's why I'm curious to see what the demos sounded like. From the >> sources >> I've read, and from the material of her own songs ("Them Heavy People") >> Kate >> definitely changed her style in the two years from her contract signing >> to >> the >> recording of The Kick Inside. > > She would have probably recorded a pre-punk drippy singer-songwriter kind > of > album, which would have quite possibly been in 1976 as there was a lot of > that kind of thing around then.... never could stand "man with the child > in his > eyes". > > Apparently not 100% pre-punk drippy singer-songwriter. Maybe 50/50? ^_^ Here's a list of what some of the demos were: 1.. The Kick Inside (Brother) [note subtitle] 2.. Hammer Horror 3.. It Hurts Me (A Rose Growing Old, Feeling Like A Waltz) 4.. Keep(ing) Me Waiting (Stranded at the Moonbase) 5.. Davy (While Davy Dozed) 6.. Disbelieving Angel 7.. Moving 8.. Kashka From Baghdad 9.. Surrender Into the Roses (Coming Up, Carmilla) 10.. Oh To Be In Love 11.. Rinfi the Gypsy (Playing Canasta (in cold rooms)) 12.. On Fire Inside a Snowball (Snow, Hot in the Ice) 13.. Dali (Ferry Me Over) 14.. Where are the Lionhearts (Lionhearts, On the Rocks) [NOT Oh England My Lionheart] 15.. Violin 16.. The Craft Of Love 17.. The Gay Farewell (Queen Eddie) 18.. Something Like a Song (In My Garden) 19.. Frightened Eyes 20.. Never The Less (You'll Do) 21.. Come Closer To Me Babe (Goodnight Baby, Who Is Sylvia?) 22.. So Soft (You're Soft) 23.. Rare Flower (I Don't See Why I Shouldn't (Pick the Rare Flower) 24.. Organic Acid 12 of these would show up on later albums. Interestingly enough - there isn't one set of early demos. They're in small batches recorded over the years. http://gaffa.org/phoenix/index.html has all the gory details. The two Gilmour produced tracks on The Kick Inside I mentioned earlier are from a set of 3. To quote from the above link: - -------------------------------------------------------- In June 1975 Gilmour booked a professional studio (AIR London), brought Andrew Powell to arrange and produce the songs and hired top musicians to back Kate. They recorded TMWTCIHE, The Saxophone Song and Maybe. This tape finally was Kate's breakthrough at EMI. The first two songs from this session appeared on The Kick Inside. Kate: "Gilmour said: 'It looks as if the only way you can do it is to put at most three songs on a tape and we'll get them properly arranged.' He put up the money for me to do that, which is amazing. No way could I have afforded to do anything like that." Kate: "I think he liked the songs sufficiently to feel that it was worth him actually putting up money for me to go in and professionally record the tracks, because all my demos were just piano vocals and I had, say like 50 songs that were all piano vocals. And he felt, quite rightly, that the record company would relate to the music much in a more real way if it was produced rather than being demoed. So he put up the money, we went into the studio, recorded three tracks..." - -------------------------------------------------------- BTW - you can see the video for King of The Mountain on her website. http://www.katebush.com . Interesting video. She actually doesn't appear in the video as much as you might suspect. And she's wearing very heavy clothes - it's a little hard to tell what she looks like now. ^_^ I did pick up Aerial, BTW. Hmmm - jury's out on this one. Not an immediate "must listen" - but I'm sufficiently curious about it to play it for a while and give it a fair chance. Haven't really listened to the 2nd disc at all either - that takes a little more time commitment than I've had lately. ^_^ Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #312 *******************************