From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #309 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, November 12 2005 Volume 08 : Number 309 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! [Derek White ] [idealcopy] Wire occasional P Floyd traits on 'Chairs..' /was 'Singing Bush' [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Punk Floyd [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] FW: (OT) How ROCK are YOU? Take the Rock School test... [Mono] Re: [idealcopy] FW: (OT) How ROCK are YOU? Take the Rock School test... [] Re: [idealcopy] Wire occasional P Floyd traits on 'Chairs..' /was 'Singing Bush' [David McKenzie ] Re: [idealcopy] Wire occasional P Floyd traits on 'Chairs..' /was 'Singing Bu... [MarkBurs] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! ["nowhere man" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! [dpbailey@att.net] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! ["nowhere man" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! [David McKenzie ] [idealcopy] Coldplay?Fiona Apple tour.......... [Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! Yeah ? Fancy doing a reprise, then, Mark ..........? Drumroll please............;-) giluz wrote:On 11/11/05, Jan Noorda wrote: > > Don't know if Wire were aware of the Floyd sound when 154 was made > Mark once did a hillarious comparison here on the list, a few years ago. - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 03:36:21 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: [idealcopy] Wire occasional P Floyd traits on 'Chairs..' /was 'Singing Bush' Last Night I blathered: >AS for the Wire link, certainly, there's some long >sustained keyboard-work on "Chairs Missing" who's >langourous mood in "Like a heartbeat", "Being sucked in", >reminded me of a certain Floydian touch. Although I'm >not sure the band would necessarily agree, OR wish to >hear it said...... ;-) "Being sucked in" indeed. ...we-eell, it was late. I'll bet someone's already caught this one, and is in the course of pointing out my idiocy... although the very end of that song sort of qualifies, the song I was thinking of was of course "Marooned", with it's reedy Farfisa-organ-sounding keyboarding, sudden chord stabs from guitar at *the* right moment, and it's stately tempo is definitely a tad PF. (And that *ain't* Pink Flag ;-) ) Maybe there was some sort of wierd osmosis going on at the Harvest Offices one day. I suspect it wasn't entirely unexpected that a label such as Harvest would give a home to Wire, being a label who's raison d'etre in the first instance was to provide an outlet for bands that were a bit left-field. That, and setting up a rival to Island Records, that is......... - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:26:22 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: [idealcopy] RE-EITS I like EITS records very much, and heard that they was good alive.. not like Mogwai or Mono, but very nice.. that Status Quo joke make also Walkabouts on last gig of tour here in belgrade..zeitgeist? if you will like this kind of music, i will recommended to you norwegian Salvatore, they are on Glitterhouse and they really kraut!! I saw them in march, if i can remember properly.. they worked with McEntire and are very, very hypnotic alive..and they are really colourfull band.. ermm, i just get back from Czech republic and saw complete opus of Plastic People Of Universe in Karlovy Vari for about 10-20 euros in complete, but if you will ask why i don't bought that..i dunno.. > > > Id heard a lot of good things about Explosions In The Sky, but they were > something of a disappointment to me. OK they veered towards the Mogwai-like > territory I like a lot, but there was something too frilly about the pretty > little guitars lines that went nowhere, and despite that sonic wall-of-sound > there was something horribly proggy about it  especially the way the bassist > stood, eyes closed and nodded sagely in time to the music. And as for one of > the guitarists, rocking to and fro, whilst holding his guitar with one hand > and seemingly conducting with the other  well Im not a violent man, but > heres a bloke who needed twatting if anyone ever did. And when, towards the > end, the three front men all repeatedly pushed their guitars into the air (and > back!)  in unison - well, it was all a bit Status Quo Im afraid. The crowd > loved them, though many of those who cheered rapturously at the end were the > same folk who had so rudely talked through the bands quieter moments. As for > me  well I dont think theyre fit to lick the boots of, say, Caribou who > used light and shade in their sound to such good effect in a recent gig in the > same town. This was all too its like punk never happened for me. I await > EITSs Snow Goose concept album some time next year! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:57:09 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Floyd >> Don't know if Wire were aware of the Floyd sound when 154 was made Mark once did a hilarious comparison here on the list, a few years ago.<< That'll be this... (2005 remix) The band grew out of an underground movement but quickly developed away from the original blueprint Their albums have minimal, geometric designs with few, if any, indications of band name or title One guitarist member of the band left early on, prompting a significant change of direction The departed member released a few records before disappearing The word 'Pink' features heavily in band folklore Followed by a word beginning with 'F' Tensions within the band have caused long periods of inactivity Members' solo works are less successful than the band releases Most of the band went to art school The bass player writes most of the words The most musical member is the singer/guitarist, who mainly sings words written by the bass player Sometimes the bass player sings his own words The drummer plays solid, unfussy 4:4 time The other musician in the band has a highly distinctive and inimitable sound He also writes some of the songs Very occasionally, he sings Their classic works were on the Harvest label The band continued for a while even though one of the key four members had left Their early works exerted a strong influence on the songwriting styles of various Britpopsters in the 1990s The band made a successful comeback with their classic line-up in the 21st century In no way do Wire resemble the Floyd!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:01:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Monochromatic Man Subject: [idealcopy] FW: (OT) How ROCK are YOU? Take the Rock School test... > ROCK SCHOOL TEST > > So just how ROCK are you? Are you as rock as Gene > Simmons? Or does half > a Daniel O'Donnell album leave you needing to check > into The Priory? > http://email.emicatalogue.com/a/tBDdLtVAQUBzgAafdzcAAbOzfGu/link3 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:40:49 -0800 From: Eric Strang Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FW: (OT) How ROCK are YOU? Take the Rock School test... Just the sight of this guy makes me want to barf. Eric On Nov 11, 2005, at 8:01 AM, Monochromatic Man wrote: >> >> Or does half >> a Daniel O'Donnell album leave you needing to check >> into The Priory? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:05:57 -0600 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire occasional P Floyd traits on 'Chairs..' /was 'Singing Bush' It is possible that Mike Thorne was most responsible for this inclination. Discuss... On 11/11/05, Derek White wrote: > > Last Night I blathered: > > >AS for the Wire link, certainly, there's some long > >sustained keyboard-work on "Chairs Missing" who's > >langourous mood in "Like a heartbeat", "Being sucked in", > >reminded me of a certain Floydian touch. Although I'm > >not sure the band would necessarily agree, OR wish to > >hear it said...... ;-) > > "Being sucked in" indeed. ...we-eell, it was late. I'll bet someone's > already caught this one, and is in the course of pointing out my idiocy... > although the very end of that song sort of qualifies, the song I was > thinking of was of course "Marooned", with it's reedy Farfisa-organ-sounding > keyboarding, sudden chord stabs from guitar at *the* right moment, and it's > stately tempo is definitely a tad PF. (And that *ain't* Pink Flag ;-) ) > > Maybe there was some sort of wierd osmosis going on at the Harvest Offices > one day. I suspect it wasn't entirely unexpected that a label such as > Harvest would give a home to Wire, being a label who's raison d'etre in the > first instance was to provide an outlet for bands that were a bit > left-field. > > That, and setting up a rival to Island Records, that is......... > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:10:03 -0600 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Punk Floyd Not so consistantly true of Nick Mason > The drummer plays solid, unfussy 4:4 time come to think of it, not so consistantly true of any drummer I can think of at the moment. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:39:08 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire occasional P Floyd traits on 'Chairs..' /was 'Singing Bu... >>It is possible that Mike Thorne was most responsible for this inclination.<< Via EMI Mike Thorne had access to state-of-the-art technology (polyphonic synths, flangers, digital delays etc) that were beyond the reach of punk bands - - so clearly he played a big role in the way Wire's sound evolved over CM & 154. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:51:57 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! >>Gilmour has his say, too. Someone played him a tape of her. He liked it, but thought it needed more work before a record company heard it. So he paid for the recordings, and even though he got his money back later, that's all he got apparently. So good on him I say.<< Kate's discovery by Dave G is well documented - he did indeed pay for her to make some demos, resulting in EMI signing her. The extraordinary thing about this is the timescale. Wuthering Heights came out in 1978, but Gilmour's involvement was several years earlier (not sure the exact timescale, 4-5 years) - - during which time EMI just waited for Kate to produce something. Can you imagine an A&R department doing that now? I guess Kate was understandable to pre-punk A&R men - whereas once punk had changed the game, you couldn't really develop artists the same way - as the artist no longer needed the record company to release a record. Everything I've read about Dave Gilmour suggests he's a top bloke. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:50:17 -0800 From: "nowhere man" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! you mean no neal and bob - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! > >>Gilmour has his say, too. Someone played him a tape of her. He liked it, > but > thought it needed more work before a record company heard it. So he paid for > the recordings, and even though he got his money back later, that's all he > got apparently. So good on him I say.<< > > > Kate's discovery by Dave G is well documented - he did indeed pay for her to > make some demos, resulting in EMI signing her. The extraordinary thing about > this is the timescale. Wuthering Heights came out in 1978, but Gilmour's > involvement was several years earlier (not sure the exact timescale, 4-5 years) > - during which time EMI just waited for Kate to produce something. Can you > imagine an A&R department doing that now? > > I guess Kate was understandable to pre-punk A&R men - whereas once punk had > changed the game, you couldn't really develop artists the same way - as the > artist no longer needed the record company to release a record. > > Everything I've read about Dave Gilmour suggests he's a top bloke. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:54:27 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Mark sed........... >> In no way do Wire resemble the Floyd<< Thank (fill in your own diety) for that! phew, I can keep my Wire collection........ A - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:18:08 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! >>you mean no neal and bob<< Eh? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:12:41 +0000 From: dpbailey@att.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! copy hmmm ... wouldn't that've made her something like 14 years old? i dunno her birthdate or anything, but if memory serves she was in her late teens where the kick inside came out. dan > Kate's discovery by Dave G is well documented - he did indeed pay for her to > make some demos, resulting in EMI signing her. The extraordinary thing about > this is the timescale. Wuthering Heights came out in 1978, but Gilmour's > involvement was several years earlier (not sure the exact timescale, 4-5 years) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:12:49 -0800 From: "nowhere man" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! ----- Original Message ----- From: MarkBursa@aol.com To: sebek-hept@sbcglobal.net ; idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! >>you mean no neal and bob<< Eh? kneel and bob...........you know ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:25:02 -0000 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! Kick Inside came out when in 1978 when she was about 19. Gilmour had recorded her about 3 years earlier. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! > copy > > > hmmm ... wouldn't that've made her something like 14 years old? i dunno her birthdate or anything, but if memory serves she was in her late teens where the kick inside came out. > > dan > > > Kate's discovery by Dave G is well documented - he did indeed pay for her to > > make some demos, resulting in EMI signing her. The extraordinary thing about > > this is the timescale. Wuthering Heights came out in 1978, but Gilmour's > > involvement was several years earlier (not sure the exact timescale, 4-5 years) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:14:47 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith A" To: ; Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! > Kick Inside came out when in 1978 when she was about 19. > > Gilmour had recorded her about 3 years earlier. > > > It's long been my belief that two of the tracks on The Kick Inside date from these earlier Gilmour sessions. Namely, The Saxophone Song and Man With The Child In His Eyes. Why? Because the album says so. Dave Gilmour was executive producer on these two tracks, and they were recorded June 1975. The rest of the album was Produced by Andrew Powell in July/August 1977. The album itself was released in 1978. According to allmusic.com, Kate was born July 30, 1958. This makes her about 20 when the album came out, 19 when the majority of it was recorded, and about 17 (technically 16, since it was June) when Gilmour recorded her. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:16:52 -0800 From: unspecified recipient Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith A" > > To: ; > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 1:25 PM > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! > > >> Kick Inside came out when in 1978 when she was about 19. >> >> Gilmour had recorded her about 3 years earlier. >> >> >> > > It's long been my belief that two of the tracks on The Kick Inside > date from these earlier Gilmour sessions. Namely, The Saxophone Song > and Man With The Child In His Eyes. > > Why? Because the album says so. Dave Gilmour was executive producer > on these two tracks, and they were recorded June 1975. The rest of > the album was Produced by Andrew Powell in July/August 1977. The > album itself was released in 1978. > > According to allmusic.com, Kate was born July 30, 1958. This makes > her about 20 when the album came out, 19 when the majority of it was > recorded, and about 17 (technically 16, since it was June) ---and 12 > mentally--when Gilmour recorded her. > > Cheers, > Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:25:04 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Pietromonaco" To: Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! > It's long been my belief that two of the tracks on The Kick Inside date > from these earlier Gilmour sessions. Namely, The Saxophone Song and Man > With The Child In His Eyes. > Also - it's pretty evident if you listen to them. Her voice is more "natural" - without the theatrical "vocal swoops" which dominate a lot of the other songs. I would be very curious to hear the rest of the material from these initial sessions someday. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:18:38 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! Hi Giluz, (cc'ing idealcopy - hope you don't mind.) Actually, I don't think she sounds very natural on the 1st two albums at all. She sounds very theatrical and almost forced at times. But, if you listen to the two tracks I mentioned, you don't hear it. It sounds like a young schoolgirl version of what she would sound like later. For example, compare the original version of Wuthering Heights on the Kick Inside to her remake on The Whole Story compilation which dates from the Hounds of Love period. You can really hear how much she drops the theatrical stylings that are predominant in her earlier work. That's why I'm curious to see what the demos sounded like. From the sources I've read, and from the material of her own songs ("Them Heavy People") Kate definitely changed her style in the two years from her contract signing to the recording of The Kick Inside. I think she would have had a much more "Marianne Faithful" sound if she had recorded her debut album at 17 instead of attending Lindsey Kemp's motion and dance school and waiting a couple of years. For the record, my favorite KB album hands down is The Dreaming, followed closely by the Hounds Of Love. Parts of Never For Ever, The Kick Inside and The Sensual World are underneath those two. Lionheart is just under them, with The Red Shoes bringing up the rear. Cheers, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: giluz To: Paul Pietromonaco Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! On 11/12/05, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: - Also - it's pretty evident if you listen to them. Her voice is more "natural" - without the theatrical "vocal swoops" which dominate a lot of the other songs. I would be very curious to hear the rest of the material from these initial sessions someday. I dunno, I didn't much care for the 1st two albums - yeah she sounded more natural but it wasn't very interesting. She had that pre-punk theatrical arty sensibility from the start, and those early dance video clips where she tries to mimic various vegetables is the proof. It got much more intersting in Never forever, peaked with the claustrophobic weirdness of 'the Dreaming' and ended with 'Hounds of Love'. Didn't hear the new one yet but it's quite hard for me to think of a new relevant KB album,. The sleeve, however, is breathtaking - how come no-one thought of that one before yet? giluz -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:47:07 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! On 11/12/05, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > > Hi Giluz, > (cc'ing idealcopy - hope you don't mind.) > > Oops I did it again - I didn't intent to send this just to you paul, but I pressed reply and by the time I finished writing I forgot to put in IC instead of just you (short term memory problems [drug abuse]). giluz - -- Now playing: http://www.last.fm/user/giluz/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:02:52 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! >>hmmm ... wouldn't that've made her something like 14 years old? i dunno her birthdate or anything, but if memory serves she was in her late teens where the kick inside came out.<< She was born in 1958, so she'd have been 20 when it came out. So written at age 16. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:47:18 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! >>That's why I'm curious to see what the demos sounded like. From the sources I've read, and from the material of her own songs ("Them Heavy People") Kate definitely changed her style in the two years from her contract signing to the recording of The Kick Inside. I think she would have had a much more "Marianne Faithful" sound if she had recorded her debut album at 17 instead of attending Lindsay Kemp's motion and dance school and waiting a couple of years.<< She would have probably recorded a pre-punk drippy singer-songwriter kind of album, which would have quite possibly been in 1976 as there was a lot of that kind of thing around then.... never could stand "man with the child in his eyes". Whereas after punk, the way was a lot clearer for something as genuinely odd as Wuthering Heights to be a hit. It's still essentially "pre-punk" in construction though. Proper musicians, strange hippyish album covers etc. >>For the record, my favorite KB album hands down is The Dreaming, followed closely by the Hounds Of Love. Parts of Never For Ever, The Kick Inside and The Sensual World are underneath those two. Lionheart is just under them, with The Red Shoes bringing up the rear.<< By Hounds of Love she's right up with the game though - it's as hi-tech in places as anything at the time - all fairlights and linn drums. But the later stuff is back to session muso hell - all 80s synths, pino palladino-style slap/fretless bass and such like. The generally stuffy Artsworld Channel on Sky is currently showing the 45-minute promo film KB made for the Red Shoes album - which of course is a serious homage to the Powell & Pressburger film of the same name. Lindsay Kemp features in this too. Again a melange of theatre/music /dance etc, as you might expect. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:42:13 -0600 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Singing Bush! i am the worst person for reviews (i honestly think the dancing about architecture quote is spot on - that said, i attended a rather interesting dance about (chicago) architecture at the Ravinia opening this year ;) but i must say, this album is a grower an honest piece of work in questionable times, unironic and fresh 5-6 years ago it would not have fared so well in my estimation but these are different times in short - i love it fave KB hands down - The Dreaming then - NeverForever They all have their highs and lows, but those two are solid for me - cover to cover good night and good luck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:59:57 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Coldplay?Fiona Apple tour.......... FIONA SET TO PLAY DATES WITH COLDPLAY IN 2006! 1/25 Seattle WA Key Arena 1/26 Vancouver BC GM Place 1/30 Sacramento CA ARCO Arena 1/31 Oakland CA Oakland Arena 2/01 San Jose CA HP Pavilion @ San Jose 2/03 Las Vegas NV MGM Grand Garden Arena 2/19 Denver CO Pepsi Center 2/20 Omaha NE Qwest Center 2/22 Detroit MI Palace of Auburn Hills 2/23 Louisville KY Freedom Hall 2/25 Houston TX Toyota Center 2/26 Dallas TX American Airlines Center 2/27 Oklahoma City OK Ford Center 3/02 Washington DC MCI Center 3/04 Orlando FL T.D. Waterhouse Centre 3/05 Tampa FL Ford Pavilion Stay tuned for on-sale dates, details and more!! FIONA WILL EMBARK ON HER US TOUR IN LESS THAN TWO WEEKS! All current tour dates are as follows: 11/22 - Roseland - Portland, OR 11/23 - Moore Theater - Seattle, WA 11/25 - Warfield - San Francisco, CA 11/26 - The Wiltern - Los Angeles CA 11/28 - House of Blues - San Diego, CA 11/30 - House of Blues - Las Vegas, NV 12/02 - Paramount Theatre - Denver, CO 12/04 - Riviera Theatre - Chicago IL 12/05 - House of Blues - Cleveland, OH 12/07 - Orpheum - Boston, MA 12/08 - Tower Theater - Philadelphia, PA 12/09 - Tower Theater - Philadelphia, PA 12/11 - Nokia Theater - New York, NY - --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #309 *******************************