From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #281 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, October 18 2005 Volume 08 : Number 281 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] EARLY WIRE ["John Goddard" ] Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: [Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] OT (but a bit worrying):- CO2 'Soil sinks'...not doing their stuff...?]....oops sorry keith [] Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Delayed postings ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: [idealcopy] Cheeky monkey [to akambar ] Re: [idealcopy] Delayed postings ["Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] EARLY WIRE Regarding the, "After Midnight Album" Some one has gone to an awful lot of Trouble to ape a Legitimate Harvest UK Record release, then knacks it up by using a catalogue number which has already been allotted to Kevin Ayers, "Rainbow Takeaway", detail detail LTD LP IN MINT CONDITION LIVE AT THE ROXY 1977+1978 DEMOS CATALOGUE#SHSP 4085 I see Sister Ray Of London have one at the moment on EbAY http://tinyurl.com/c4fs3 - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ""Uri Baran"" ; ""John Goddard"" ; Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] EARLY WIRE > i'm sure there is not a vinyl bootleg of george gill demos in existence or we'd have seen it. this is just some guy making a fast buck on ebay selling dodgy cdr's. the gg demos are certianly "interesting" but i suspect don't figure highly on the bands re-issue schedule (like "over my dead body" i'd guess). > > is anyone gonna buy that "after midnight" album? i'm gonna draw the line here , that's just a rip off. its all on "behind the curtain" so what on earth is the point? > > these re-issues of the EMI albums seem to have gone quiet too. anyone know the score on those? p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:54:47 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Fwd: Strummersite Communique] OT > Q Magazine and Mojo (worldwide) have just published this lavish, glossy, > edition to honour The Clash. This 'ultimate collectors edition' charts the > history of the band and does succeed in uncovereing some new gems. Included is > a 'lost' interview Joe gave to punk historian Jon Savage, plenty of new pics, > and the 'untold' story of the Clash on the road in the USA. This months Q has a free Lennon 'covered' cd with it. Elbow contribute a rather nifty version Working Class Hero, where they really make it their own. Very doomy, though sadly on first listen I didn't notice any whistling! Be careful though - there's a Vol 1 and Vol 2, and this track isn't on both. K. np Beach Boys - carl & the passions ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 05:50:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] Moray Forth and Orkney Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:42:55 -0500 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Lounging Lizard ((( Have you heard the album he made in 1998 with > Angela Jaeger called Artificial Homeland ? It's rather > good. On his own label, Piano. Features Charles > Hayward drumming on a few tracks. i liked that too favorites are the Made to Measure "Water" and Voiceworks though i dl'ed grey scale from soulseek last year but after all the years of searching, not much would really have satisfied, especially in mp3 format (rather like MZUI, had i not been reissued - interesting, but needing corporal existance) >>> Ghost Dance, with Peter Giles and Jamie Muir is quite good too. I'd forgotten about that. A soundtrack for a film by Ken McMullen, from 1983. A particularly memorable image from the film, after seeing Stuart Brisley do his stuff in a waterlogged underground enclosure, was the sight of Robbie Coltrane with a drumkit on a rooftop, improvising to the shipping forecast on the radio... Fergus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 06:07:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] Cheeky monkey > Anyway, worth having, especially if you want to beat Mark Bursa in a pub > quiz, or simply have to know what Rip Rig & Panic were doing this time > 25 years ago. Making shit records, weren't they? ))) You havin' a go at Rip Rig & Panic Mr. Astbury ?? Go to the back of the class !! Fergus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:28:15 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk >>or simply have to know what Rip Rig & Panic were doing this time > 25 years ago. Making shit records, weren't they?<< Not the most successful records, no - Mark Springer's contributions tended to be pretty self-indulgent - but one hell of a live band. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] OT (but a bit worrying):- CO2 'Soil sinks'...not doing their stuff...?]....oops sorry keith Keith Knight wrote: I think the ep that came out here a few months ago was an early release, dating back a couple of years, that was sold at some gigs back then. It's not live material and I don't think it was recorded at Maida Vale .................it sounds like this may be a bootleg. Another the Keith ///// Now, that *would* be an interesting departure for the 'Music Zone' chain** to be dealing in bootlegs...;-) (**Poss unknown beyond Scotland/ Northern England??) I must say on first inspection it didn't *look* like one: the sleeve design had the same sort of gatefold cardboard format as 'Funeral', with similar fonts, artwork etc employed, even down (IIRC) to the impressed scrawl in silver gel pen that adorns that albums cover.......Except the colour scheme is kinda blue, instead of kinda beige/brown......a bit more 'presentation' about it than most 'boots' I've seen: I'd say it looks like an 'official' release, but I'll have another look... Having lived with 'Funeral' for a couple of days now, I can say it's a grower........ - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of nowhere man Sent: 16 October 2005 02:24 To: wi re Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] OT (but a bit worrying):- CO2 'Soil sinks'...not doing their stuff...?]....oops sorry keith damn, derek, the e.p. is like, spooky great. singer says it was their first gig outside the states. thanks for the heads up on this one. really good. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek White" To: ; "idealcopy" Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] OT (but a bit worrying):- CO2 'Soil sinks'...not doing their stuff...?]....oops sorry keith > Nah, sadly this is just a single CD version:- however, > in the rack next to it was something purporting to be > a mini album:- slightly different lineup, about 6 > tracks on it for around 6UKP, or 6:45. > > Dunno if that's the Maida Vale session, or a demo or > something of that nature:- I didn't read further, just > headed for the till with 'Funeral' as the shop was > about to close. > > wrote: > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > > On a musical front, I went out today and took a > > punt > > >on the Arcade Fire's "Funeral". > > >Think I'm going to enjoy this...... > > >------------------------------------ > > >Oh you are, Derek, you are. Had this since late > > last year and it's > > >improved slowly as time has gone on, offering up > > more subtlety and > > >catchiness every play. Damn fine record. > > > > > >Another the Keith > > > in the u.s. it's one disc...the import is 2...you > > are taliking the 2 > > disc set? have you listened to live at bbc maida > > vale studios? > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 06:54:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk Keith A wrote: > Anyway, worth having, especially if you want to beat Mark Bursa in a pub > quiz, or simply have to know what Rip Rig & Panic were doing this time > 25 years ago. Making shit records, weren't they? ///// ....yep, that was one of the bands that John Peel *sort of* championed that completely passed me by, too. Shit name, too. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:10:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Reintroduction................ I don't have any objections: but there again, so far as I can recall, I was never in the cross-hairs of one of his occasional rants........ Despite at times writing about bands that were at the esoteric fringes, glorying in the deeply obscure nature of some of his 'finds' ;-) , I don't think you could doubt his passion for music. Certainly added a splash of his individual colour to proceedings...........fine by me. dw David McKenzie wrote: no objections here he *did* go a bit over the top at one time but (imho) he was also (for the most part) right bring it on On 10/16/05, Ari wrote: > > --- Andrew Walkingshaw > wrote: > > >>Ditto to both! Odds on the Rowland comeback > shortening by the day, I reckon. > He'd bloody despise my music though... > > Andrew<< > Hope you're right Andrew (not the 'your music' bit), > as a matter of interest, would anyone currently on the > list object to his return to the fold? > Ari > > If it's fun............do it.................. > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Music Unlimited > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:31:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Fwd: Strummersite Communique] OT Grr!.. This isn't by any means the first time magazines have done this with their cover-mount 'free' CD's :- other recent examples include IIRC REM and Led Zep specials, with different disk issues compiled by different band members etc.and it hacks me off that if it's an artiste you're big into, you have no choice but to buy TWO COPIES of a rag you can only, after all, read once with a fresh eye. Ultimately, several major deciduous forests will have to go to provide pulp for this wasteful practice................ ;-) Seriously, Couldn't they make Vol 2 available for a nominal charge+ postage ? Anything else is somewhat of a 'con' on circulation audits and , hence, advertisers. Keith A wrote: This months Q has a free Lennon 'covered' cd with it. Elbow contribute a rather nifty version Working Class Hero, where they really make it their own. Very doomy, though sadly on first listen I didn't notice any whistling! Be careful though - there's a Vol 1 and Vol 2, and this track isn't on both. K. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:05:09 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Fwd: Strummersite Communique] OT >>Anything else is somewhat of a 'con' on circulation audits and, hence, advertisers.<< Ah, the machiavellian methods of the publishing industry! Just wait for the cover disks to turn up in your local charity shop/car boot sale within a few weeks! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:19:53 +0000 From: dpbailey@att.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Fwd: Strummersite Communique] OT has q been doing this for long? not a mag i usually look at (as it happens, all the british music zines arrive here in the cradle of the confederacy at least a couple of months late anyway), really, but i've only ever *noticed* the occasional discs attached to the covers of uncut & mojo, a handful of which i've bought, & at least 2 have indeed come in double versions as described below. dan np: some espn show rerunning from last night, as i'm at work, though before i left the house it was the dead cowboys' twin evil stars, still my favorite album of the year (though fall heads roll appears to be a strong 2nd) > This months Q has a free Lennon 'covered' cd with it. Elbow contribute a > rather nifty version Working Class Hero, where they really make it their > own. Very doomy, though sadly on first listen I didn't notice any whistling! > > Be careful though - there's a Vol 1 and Vol 2, and this track isn't on both. > > K. > > np Beach Boys - carl & the passions ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:27:38 -0700 From: "he'll drive your car" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Fwd: Strummersite Communique] OT they always show up at my local laundrymat.....there's every copy of mojo for 3 or 4 years in there.minus 3 or 4 ;0D nudge nudge wink wink say no more or posted on alt.binaries weeks before the mag comes out MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>>Anything else is somewhat of a 'con' on circulation audits and, hence, >>> >>> >advertisers.<< > >Ah, the machiavellian methods of the publishing industry! > >Just wait for the cover disks to turn up in your local charity shop/car boot >sale within a few weeks! > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:34:24 +0000 From: dpbailey@att.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk - -------------- Original message from Derek White : -------------- > Keith A wrote: > > > Anyway, worth having, especially if you want to beat Mark Bursa in a pub > > quiz, or simply have to know what Rip Rig & Panic were doing this time > > 25 years ago. > > Making shit records, weren't they? > > > ///// ....yep, that was one of the bands that John Peel *sort of* > championed that completely passed me by, too. Shit name, too. indeed. of course, i thought for about 2 decades that the name was rip *pig* & panic ... guess i was conflating them with pigbag. rip rig & panic was of course the name of a roland kirk lp, though i didn't learn that till a couple of years ago. sometimes i'm sort of slow. dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:41:50 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Fwd: Strummersite Communique] OT > has q been doing this for long? Rarely buy Q nowadays. Don't think they have a free cd too often though. Only bought it this month cos I was interested to hear what Elbow's bash at WCH sounded like... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:57:55 -0700 From: from the potsdam Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk dpbailey@att.net wrote: >-------------- Original message from Derek White : -------------- > > > > >>Keith A wrote: >> >> >> >>>Anyway, worth having, especially if you want to beat Mark Bursa in a pub >>>quiz, or simply have to know what Rip Rig & Panic were doing this time >>>25 years ago. >>> >>> >>Making shit records, weren't they? >> >> >>///// ....yep, that was one of the bands that John Peel *sort of* >>championed that completely passed me by, too. Shit name, too. >> >> > >indeed. of course, i thought for about 2 decades that the name was *rip *pig* & panic* ... guess i was conflating them with *pigbag.* *what next the pork dukes? ;-) * > >rip rig & panic was of course the name of a roland kirk lp, though i didn't learn that till a couple of years ago. sometimes i'm sort of slow. > >dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:12:32 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk >>but bands like RR&P with their pseudo African drums and leaping around with that 'look-at-us-aren't-we-having-a-good-time' attitude was all that was bad about the early /mid-80's imo.<< I'd have thought The Pop Group fronted by Neneh Cherry would have appealed to you Keith! Not an African drum in sight - just the mighty Bruce Smith. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:39:47 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk > >>or simply have to know what Rip Rig & Panic were doing this time > > 25 years ago. > > Making shit records, weren't they?<< > > > Not the most successful records, no - Mark Springer's contributions tended > to be pretty self-indulgent - but one hell of a live band. > > Mark People go on about Spandau Ballet and Howard Jones, but bands like RR&P with their pseudo African drums and leaping around with that 'look-at-us-aren't-we-having-a-good-time' attitude was all that was bad about the early /mid-80's imo. Never saw them live, though if I wanted to dance, I'd stick with those three glorious Shannon 45's!! Let The Music Play indeed! K. np Beach Boys - Holland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:19:18 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk >>It was that clattery drum sound. Or is my memory playing tricks on me?<< Sure you're not thinking of Pigbag? >>Always thought that Bristol lot were over-rated myself, though that's not to say there weren't records I liked (esp Beyond Good & Evil).<< I'd say they were undervalued.... The Pop Group did verge on the over-sincere - Mark Stewart does tend to adopt a hectoring tone, especially on the 2nd album. But what they were doing just looks light years ahead of its time.... like a more extreme Gang of Four, both musically and politically! RR&P was basically the final Pop Group line-up, minus Mark Stewart, with added (often irritating) keyboards from Mark Springer and Neneh Cherry on vocals - - sort of proto "world music" but still with plenty of Pop Group musical anarchy (ie Gareth Sager) in the mix. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:12:20 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk > I'd have thought The Pop Group fronted by Neneh Cherry would have appealed > to you Keith! Not an African drum in sight - just the mighty Bruce Smith. It was that clattery drum sound. Or is my memory playing tricks on me? Always thought that Bristol lot were over-rated myself, though that's not to say there weren't records I liked (esp Beyond Good & Evil). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:33:27 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk >>It was that clattery drum sound. Or is my memory playing tricks on me?<< Sure you're not thinking of Pigbag? >No. Weren't RR&P on The Young Ones? I've got that on video somewhere so knew that one pretty well. They looked like they were trying too hard. >sort of proto "world music" There you go then. And isn't 'sort of proto "world music" a term designed to bring horror to the mind of the average music fan!! Which reminds me. Another term like that is In The Good Old Country Way, which I mention because it - the Nightingales album of that name - is re-issued this month. And very good it sounds too - particularly, appropriately enough, How To Age! Bonus tracks include a live Crafty Fag. Well worth getting on cd. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:08:26 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Fwd: Strummersite Communique] OT >> This months Q has a free Lennon 'covered' cd with it. Elbow contribute a >> rather nifty version Working Class Hero, where they really make it their >> own. Very doomy, though sadly on first listen I didn't notice any >> whistling! >> >> Be careful though - there's a Vol 1 and Vol 2, and this track isn't on >> both. > > Grr!.. This isn't by any means the first time magazines have done this > with > their cover-mount 'free' CD's :- > > Seriously, Couldn't they make Vol 2 available for a nominal charge+ > postage ? > Don't worry - the discs are identical except for the Elbow track. And you don't want Vol. 2 anyway - it's a Badly Drawn Boy track. ^_- Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:03:34 +0000 From: dpbailey@att.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Trainspotters guide to punk hmmm ... this hasn't yet shown up from any domestic sellers with whom i'm familiar. damn. dan, sitting at work racking his brains trying to remember whether he owns the pissed & potless retrospective cd (i *do* have pigs on purpose on vinyl & quite like it) - -------------- Original message from "Keith A" : -------------- > >>It was that clattery drum sound. Or is my memory playing tricks on me?<< > Sure you're not thinking of Pigbag? > > >No. Weren't RR&P on The Young Ones? I've got that on video somewhere so > knew that one pretty well. > > They looked like they were trying too hard. > > >sort of proto "world music" > > > There you go then. And isn't 'sort of proto "world music" a term designed > to bring horror to the mind of the average music fan!! > > Which reminds me. Another term like that is In The Good Old Country Way, > which I mention because it - the Nightingales album of that name - is > re-issued this month. And very good it sounds too - particularly, > appropriately enough, How To Age! > > Bonus tracks include a live Crafty Fag. Well worth getting on cd. > > Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:33:38 +0100 From: "Uri Baran" Subject: [idealcopy] Delayed postings Can anyone advise as to why it took 5 days for my last posting to appear after it was sent? U. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:45:04 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Delayed postings > Can anyone advise as to why it took 5 days for my last posting to appear > after > it was sent? > Faster than light travel? ^_- Actually, it might have had a reserved word in it, in which case, the message gets sent to Miles for approval. There's a lag when this happens, because Miles has to manually send on the message. This isn't a censorship thing - it's a listserver command thing. (i.e. if your message contains the word *ns*bscribe, where the *=u) There are other possibilities as well that you might be able to glean from looking at the header. Which message got delayed, Uri? Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:17:51 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Cheeky monkey Fergus Kelly wrote: >>Anyway, worth having, especially if you want to beat > > > Mark Bursa in a pub > >>quiz, or simply have to know what Rip Rig & Panic > > were doing this time > >>25 years ago. > > > Making shit records, weren't they? > > ))) You havin' a go at Rip Rig & Panic Mr. Astbury ?? > > Go to the back of the class !! > > Fergus > Stop early 80s tribal funk-punk bickering at once. Put that Alto Sax down, lay down the congas and shake hands boys! All I remember of these is them being on the Young Ones introduced by Rik Mayall something like "No music My twousers! What about...Wip, Wig and Panic?!" n.p. Half Man Half Biscuit - This Leaden Pall. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:58:44 -0700 From: to akambar Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Cheeky monkey Tim wrote: > Fergus Kelly wrote: > >>> Anyway, worth having, especially if you want to beat >> >> >> >> Mark Bursa in a pub >> >>> quiz, or simply have to know what Rip Rig & Panic >> >> >> were doing this time >> >>> 25 years ago. >> >> >> >> Making shit records, weren't they? >> >> ))) You havin' a go at Rip Rig & Panic Mr. Astbury ?? >> >> Go to the back of the class !! >> >> Fergus >> > > Stop early 80s tribal funk-punk bickering at once. Put that Alto Sax > down, lay down the congas and shake hands boys! > > > All I remember of these is them being on the Young Ones introduced by > Rik Mayall something like "No music My twousers! What about...Wip, Wig > and Panic?!" > > > > > n.p. Half Man Half Biscuit - This Leaden Pall. back away from the bongos back away from the bongos np: Tiemko - Ocean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:45:46 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Delayed postings > It was my last one re Old Wire. It was sent on the 12th and delivered on > the 17th!! > No rude words in it either. Any ideas? Hi Uri, I took a look a the message headers. Of interest are these lines: Received: from dell800 (82.25.239.232) by n066.sc1.cp.net (7.0.038) id 432A19D200610E4B; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:31:56 +0000 This is the message transaction from your computer to your Internet Service Provider's (ISP) upstream mail server. dell800 is you - n066.sc1.cp.net is your ISP. It shows the transaction happening on the 12th, which is when you sent the message. Then, this line: Received: from n066.sc1.cp.net (sp0133.sc1.cp.net [64.97.136.133]) by smoe.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9GN0bIZ018061 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:00:38 -0400 (EDT) This line seems to be the transaction from your ISP (n066.sc1.cp.net) to smoe.org, which is the idealcopy mail-list server. As you can see, that is dated Sun, 16th. So, if I read this right, Idealcopy got the message on the 16th. My guess is that your ISP either had a mail server failure, or lost their mail connection to the internet, and that the message sat in their queue. Any other mysteries need solving? ^_^ Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #281 *******************************