From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #269 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, October 6 2005 Volume 08 : Number 269 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better [D] Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better [D] [idealcopy] [OT] Elbow - Leaders of the free world ["Paul Pietromonaco" <] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Elbow - Leaders of the free world [Andrew Walkingsha] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Elbow - Leaders of the free world [sks Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better The description of the 'career arc' of yer typical 2005 indie-band is pretty bang on the money I'd say. Would the Smiths last long enough to do "The Queen is dead" were they plying their trade now? Um. Dunno. It rather depends on how much the preceeding releases had sold, not in terms of raw no. of 'units' shifted (hate that term!), but measured against their label's expections / marketing budget expended. I don't think 2005's bands get enough breathing space to mature organically, gain experience and importantly, live enough outside of the 'bubble' to inform the second album, which is why we seem to get so-oo many 'disappointing' or 'difficult' second releases now: the act has usually been way too busy on the merry-go-round / treadmill to write any good, naturally gestated stuff, just songs thrown together 'cos there's a deadline looming, studio time booked and the label want SOMETHING in the shops to hit the Xmas rush. And unfortunately for the bands, they've usually expended all their 'A' material trying to fill a 70-minute CD, as opposed to the 40-45 mins in the days of vinyl. So, the punter either gets "The First Album" volume two, or worse songs informed by the rigours of 'life on the road/playin' in the band' or worse:- for instance, the Stereophonics-stylee route 'All journalists are twats cos they slagged off my record" or even "Man , what planet am I on, cos I've got half of Peru's exports up my nose, so I don't know'. Tim wrote: MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>>>We're in a climate where anything reasonably tuneful and spunky played > > by > >>pretty skinny boys with guitars and tight trousers is cool and marketable >>(Maximo Park, Futureheads, Bloc Party etc etc etc)<< > > > > > It's fiundamentally not a bad thing though is it? Surely the availability of > a substantial distribution channel for "alternative" music will let some of > the more left-field stuff through to the wider consciousness?? or are we being > (gasp!) music snobs that want our little obsure bands all to ourselves? Not really, just an observation. Its interesting that the 'indie' bands of today have commerical pressures on them that never troubled their predecessors. I wonder how this might shape their careers and the quality of the music they might make. >>>>Had they been born 20 years younger FF would be languishing on Rough >> >>Trade, maybe sell out the Brixton Academy if they were lucky, scrape the >>top 50 album charts and get on The Tube.<< > > > Surely that's a function of more sophisticated marketing, faster > communication and better distribution? It was possible after all to become a very > succesful indie guitar band 20 years ago - The Smiths, for example. Well yes but... imagine if The Smiths had formed in 2005. They do a few gigs and get a buzz going and some good press. The marketing machine kicks in. Maybe an NME cover before they've barely recorded a note. They get signed and release Hand In Glove. It would be a monster hit now, and within months they have a sell out tour of Carling Academy's across the nation. Debut LP goes Top 10, Q magazine , observer music monthly et al give it rave reviews. Later With Jools Holland. Jonathan Ross. Ant N Dec. CD:UK. A couple of months later they are nominated for the Mercury Music Prize. Maybe they headline Glastonbury or the V Festival etc etc. ITV use 'Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now' as the soundtrack when they show clips of contestants getting booted off 'The X Factor'. The question is...do they last long enough to release 'The Queen is Dead'? - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:09:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better The description of the 'career arc' of yer typical 2005 indie-band is pretty bang on the money I'd say. Would the Smiths last long enough to do "The Queen is dead" were they plying their trade now? Um. Dunno. It rather depends on how much the preceeding releases had sold, not in terms of raw no. of 'units' shifted (hate that term!), but measured against their label's expections / marketing budget expended. I don't think 2005's bands get enough breathing space to mature organically, gain experience and importantly, live enough outside of the 'bubble' to inform the second album, which is why we seem to get so-oo many 'disappointing' or 'difficult' second releases now: the act has usually been way too busy on the merry-go-round / treadmill to write any good, naturally gestated stuff, just songs thrown together 'cos there's a deadline looming, studio time booked and the label want SOMETHING in the shops to hit the Xmas rush. And unfortunately for the bands, they've usually expended all their 'A' material trying to fill a 70-minute CD, as opposed to the 40-45 mins in the days of vinyl. So, the punter either gets "The First Album" volume two, or worse songs informed by the rigours of 'life on the road/playin' in the band' or worse:- for instance, the Stereophonics-stylee route 'All journalists are twats cos they slagged off my record" or even "Man , what planet am I on, cos I've got half of Peru's exports up my nose, so I don't know'. Tim wrote: MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>>>We're in a climate where anything reasonably tuneful and spunky played > > by > >>pretty skinny boys with guitars and tight trousers is cool and marketable >>(Maximo Park, Futureheads, Bloc Party etc etc etc)<< > > > > > It's fiundamentally not a bad thing though is it? Surely the availability of > a substantial distribution channel for "alternative" music will let some of > the more left-field stuff through to the wider consciousness?? or are we being > (gasp!) music snobs that want our little obsure bands all to ourselves? Not really, just an observation. Its interesting that the 'indie' bands of today have commerical pressures on them that never troubled their predecessors. I wonder how this might shape their careers and the quality of the music they might make. >>>>Had they been born 20 years younger FF would be languishing on Rough >> >>Trade, maybe sell out the Brixton Academy if they were lucky, scrape the >>top 50 album charts and get on The Tube.<< > > > Surely that's a function of more sophisticated marketing, faster > communication and better distribution? It was possible after all to become a very > succesful indie guitar band 20 years ago - The Smiths, for example. Well yes but... imagine if The Smiths had formed in 2005. They do a few gigs and get a buzz going and some good press. The marketing machine kicks in. Maybe an NME cover before they've barely recorded a note. They get signed and release Hand In Glove. It would be a monster hit now, and within months they have a sell out tour of Carling Academy's across the nation. Debut LP goes Top 10, Q magazine , observer music monthly et al give it rave reviews. Later With Jools Holland. Jonathan Ross. Ant N Dec. CD:UK. A couple of months later they are nominated for the Mercury Music Prize. Maybe they headline Glastonbury or the V Festival etc etc. ITV use 'Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now' as the soundtrack when they show clips of contestants getting booted off 'The X Factor'. The question is...do they last long enough to release 'The Queen is Dead'? - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:28:29 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Elbow - Leaders of the free world Hi everyone, Just got this CD in the mail (or "post" for the UK listees, right? ^_^). I made a point of ordering the UK version w/bonus DVD. Elbow, starting with their previous CD Cast of Thousands, have really been working with a particular art company. Much like Radiohead's look is created by Stanley Donwood, Elbow work closely with a group of artists known as the Soup Collective. So, just like Cast of Thousands had a Bonus DVD that made a small film out of the album, so does Leaders Of The Free World. Long side note, but of interest: Since I'm in America, and I still haven't found/unpacked my World Wide Video Viewing Getup., and since the DVD is Region 0 (a.k.a. Region free) PAL, I'm using a very undocumented feature of my U.S. XBOX game console. Namely, it translates any PAL DVD to NTSC - as long as it's Region 1 or Region 0. (U.K. normally being Region 2, of course). It's funny - I actually have a small piece of software that makes my PlayStation 2 Region free, but it will only accept NTSC discs. I really need to find/unpack my World Wide Video Viewing Getup.. This "Leaders Of The Free World" film isn't quite as literal as the "Cast Of Thousands" film. Whereas that film was more like a series of videos that accompanied each song on the album, this film is actually like a mini-documentary/video collection. For starters, it doesn't follow the album sequence exactly, and it's also missing one track from the CD. It also has little real-life vignettes linking the songs. So why am I mentioning the video instead of talking about the album? Well, I haven't played the album yet. I have heard all the songs though - well, bar the one. For some reason, this recording seems much easier to "get into" with visual accompaniment. I did try listening to the CD, but, for the most part, this record is such a slow grower, that I found myself jumping tracks. That's not a bad review - it's just indicative of how busy and hyperactive I've been lately. Actually, it's a strong collection of songs. If you dig Elbow, you'll dig this one. It doesn't seem as "concept" based as Cast Of Thousands did - or if it is, I haven't figured out the concept yet. Cast Of Thousands seemed to be about the trials and tribulations of a small band starting their first world tour: listen to the lyrics of songs like Fallen Angel followed by Fugitive Motel, and you'll get the picture. Leaders of the Free World has strong lyrics - there's a quote floating out there by Guy Garvey that he had to really sweat the lyrics because the music was so compelling this time - but it seems more like the first album. So, I'm starting to dig the new Elbow CD. Definitely a slow grower. The song arrangements are long and complicated - as someone in the band once commented - "Prog without the solos". I'll keep you all posted as to where it will eventually fit in my head. ^_^ Cheers, Paul P.S. America - fear not. The CD is coming to these shores. I doubt it will have the accompanying DVD though. The U.S. Edition of Cast Of Thousands did have a computer CD with medium-resolution videos of the U.K. DVD - maybe we'll get something like that here. I doubt it though. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:40:47 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Elbow - Leaders of the free world On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 10:28:29AM -0700, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > So, I'm starting to dig the new Elbow CD. Definitely a slow grower. The > song arrangements are long and complicated - as someone in the band once > commented - "Prog without the solos". I'll keep you all posted as to where > it will eventually fit in my head. ^_^ A very slow grower, but it's still growing; I already like it a lot more than I did Cast of Thousands. The second half of the album reminds me - I can't quite work out why - of Low, and that's definitely a good thing. As for overarching conceit; as far as I can tell it's Elbow's lifelong concern - songs full of grace about age and growing old. Other recent records I'm into - Jackson and his Computer Band/"Smash", Ladytron/"Witching Hour", and Sigur Ros' "Takk" still... Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:39:20 -0700 From: sks Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Elbow - Leaders of the free world hey thanks for the tip...i just went and downloaded 3 cd's, 7 ep's in a series, an additional ep and videos on giganews......took about 10 minutes......and it's the import series. that's cool about Xbox......really cool. Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Just got this CD in the mail (or "post" for the UK listees, right? > ^_^). I made a point of ordering the UK version w/bonus DVD. Elbow, > starting with their previous CD Cast of Thousands, have really been > working with a particular art company. Much like Radiohead's look is > created by Stanley Donwood, Elbow work closely with a group of artists > known as the Soup Collective. > > So, just like Cast of Thousands had a Bonus DVD that made a small film > out of the album, so does Leaders Of The Free World. > > Long side note, but of interest: Since I'm in America, and I still > haven't found/unpacked my World Wide Video Viewing Getup., and since > the DVD is Region 0 (a.k.a. Region free) PAL, I'm using a very > undocumented feature of my U.S. XBOX game console. Namely, it > translates any PAL DVD to NTSC - as long as it's Region 1 or Region > 0. (U.K. normally being Region 2, of course). It's funny - I > actually have a small piece of software that makes my PlayStation 2 > Region free, but it will only accept NTSC discs. I really > need to find/unpack my World Wide Video Viewing Getup.. > > This "Leaders Of The Free World" film isn't quite as literal as the > "Cast Of Thousands" film. Whereas that film was more like a series of > videos that accompanied each song on the album, this film is actually > like a mini-documentary/video collection. For starters, it doesn't > follow the album sequence exactly, and it's also missing one track > from the CD. It also has little real-life vignettes linking the songs. > > So why am I mentioning the video instead of talking about the album? > Well, I haven't played the album yet. I have heard all the songs > though - well, bar the one. For some reason, this recording seems > much easier to "get into" with visual accompaniment. I did try > listening to the CD, but, for the most part, this record is such a > slow grower, that I found myself jumping tracks. That's not a bad > review - it's just indicative of how busy and hyperactive I've been > lately. > > Actually, it's a strong collection of songs. If you dig Elbow, you'll > dig this one. It doesn't seem as "concept" based as Cast Of Thousands > did - or if it is, I haven't figured out the concept yet. Cast Of > Thousands seemed to be about the trials and tribulations of a small > band starting their first world tour: listen to the lyrics of songs > like Fallen Angel followed by Fugitive Motel, and you'll get the > picture. Leaders of the Free World has strong lyrics - there's a > quote floating out there by Guy Garvey that he had to really sweat the > lyrics because the music was so compelling this time - but it seems > more like the first album. > > So, I'm starting to dig the new Elbow CD. Definitely a slow grower. > The song arrangements are long and complicated - as someone in the > band once commented - "Prog without the solos". I'll keep you all > posted as to where it will eventually fit in my head. ^_^ > > Cheers, > Paul > > P.S. America - fear not. The CD is coming to these shores. I doubt > it will have the accompanying DVD though. The U.S. Edition of Cast Of > Thousands did have a computer CD with medium-resolution videos of the > U.K. DVD - maybe we'll get something like that here. I doubt it though. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:43:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Darkness Sweet Microdisney (was Franz F but we got bored of em!) I have limited knowledge of The Sweet, apart from the fact the Blockbuster was No.1 when I was born, and I find the TOTP clip of that hilarious when the guy with the bad make up looms into shot and says "We just haven't got a clue what to doooo". Also saw some documentary about them a while back with the lead singer looking like the ghost of Glam Rock, made Ozzy Osbourne look like Cliff Richard. I saw 'some documentary' , too, and the guy with the bad make-up would be Mick Tucker, now residing in the US and having the build of a darts player who's been overdoing the lager, even by that profession's standards........ And , yes, Brian Connoly, Sweet's erstwhile singer *didn't* look too great the last time I saw him 'on the box':- he had the shakes so bad you thought he'd got Parkinson's disease or something. He expired shortly after filming the doc. I saw, when his liver finally hoisted the white flag. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:23:37 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Elbow - Leaders of the free world >> Actually, it's a strong collection of songs. If you dig Elbow, you'll >> dig >> this one. It doesn't seem as "concept" based as Cast Of Thousands did - >> or >> if it is, I haven't figured out the concept yet. > > As for overarching conceit; as far as I can tell it's Elbow's lifelong > concern - songs full of grace about age and growing old. > Hey - I have the information straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. Found on the http://www.elbow.co.uk site: Here's what the songs are about. Station Approach - Is the street leading out of the front of Manchester Piccadilly train station. "Coming home I feel like I designed the buildings I walk by". Picky Bugger - Preaching what I most need to learn. A cautionary tale about excessive partying. The working title stuck. Forget Myself - Friday nights, inner-city. Everybody looking for love even if they would batter you for suggesting it. Sub-titled 'Buddha With Mace', it features a description of a bouncer I used to work with. "He's so mercifully free of the pressures of grace. He's St Peter in satin. He's Buddha with mace". The Stops - "I pull out the stops and you pull the plug." Leaders of the Free World - I saw footage of Bush senior and junior when the latter was voted in for his 2nd term. George W. was all but shrugging his dad off and hogging the attention and I could suddenly see him as an 8 year old. A spoilt, nasty, selfish little shit for brains. He's officially the most powerful man in history. An Imagined Affair - This is about an affair I imagined A Mexican Standoff - Is a 3 way deadlock. The first to move is most likely to die. I was jealous about my girl's ex: "He'd look ideal 'neath the wheels of a car. Mexican Standoff. I wish I was hard" The track features 3 year old Dylan Jupp's debut appearance, laughing hysterically. The Everthere - Same sentiment as "When I'm 64" but not as jolly. "Slide into another book. Now and then laugh out loud. Throw that very dirty look which says "OK stop staring at me now"' My Very Best "Give that girl my very best though it never made the grade" Great Expectations - I got married once on the 135 bus to Bury. It was such a low-key affair that even the bride didn't know. "Stockport supporters club kindly supplied us a choir" Puncture Repair - We recorded this in Craigs house. I have the best mates in the World. Thanks for listening Love Elbow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 14:25:49 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Darkness Sweet Microdisney (was Franz F but we got bored ... >>I saw 'some documentary' , too, and the guy with the bad make-up would be Mick Tucker........<< Oh, no it wasn't. The not-at-all-camp spoken bits were delivered by the great Steve Priest. Mick Tucker was the drummer - he died in 2002. Mind you, they all had bad make-up. But Steve Priest had more bad make up than the others! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:17:24 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Darkness Sweet Microdisney (was Franz F but we got bored of em!) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Tim I have limited knowledge of The Sweet, apart from the fact the Blockbuster was No.1 when I was born, and I find the TOTP clip of that hilarious when the guy with the bad make up looms into shot and says "We just haven't got a clue what to doooo". Also saw some documentary about them a while back with the lead singer looking like the ghost of Glam Rock, made Ozzy Osbourne look like Cliff Richard. - ----------------------------------- The Sweet were unspeakable, and I'm having no retrospective nonsense about how camp they were. Before they went heavy metal they released a slew of Chinn/Chapman singles which must constitute the worst run of singles by any band in the history of pop - Funny Funny, Co-Co, Alexander Graham Bell, Poppa Joe, Little Willie and Wig Wam Bam. It upsets me just typing these titles. The week (weeks? - it seemed like forever) in 1971 that Co-Co was at #2 and Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep was #1 was one of the worst of my life - I actually think I was depressed as a result. Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:25:35 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Darkness Sweet Microdisney (was Franz F but we got bored ofem!) I saw Microdisney a few times back when and Mr Rabjohn's recollection is unerringly accurate. A friend of mine really liked them (Crooked Mile was his fave album of all time for a while) but I never shared the enthusiasm, although Coughlan was an interesting live performer. Still I did see the wonderful and forgotten Edward Barton live with them once along with Stump, so I don't begrudge them. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of PaulRabjohn@aol.com >I'm a big fan of The High Llamas, featuring ex Microdisney man Sean >O'Hagan. I was a bit late for Microdisney themselves I think they split >up just before I started listening to Peel etc. >What do they sound like? ////saw microdisney mid-80's at an aston uni indie night (headlining an interesting bill with hurrah! and terry and gerry). they were an odd bunch , very MOR music with heavy lyrics , songs would go on quite softly for a couple of minutes and then cathal coughlan would go off on one and start writhing around on the floor in a manner that didn't seem to fit with the music at all. SO'H was on keyboards i think. they were OK but nothing to get too excited about really. i actually saw them namechecked as the template for the beautiful south once (hard hitting lyrics and radio 2 tunes). always thought of the high llamas as the thinking mans world party. do we really need more brian wilson tributes? , i think it's time we moved on..... did like some of the cathal coughlan solo stuff (1000% , only losers take the bus) but not heard much from him in recent times. that sort of seriousness is not in bvogue now i guess. p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:43:13 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Elbow - Leaders of the free world Okay - here's another reason to consider purchasing the DVD edition instead of the standard CD edition. They're not the same. Well - duh - I said that the DVD was 10 tracks instead of 11, but I just counted tracks - I didn't actually look at them. The DVD is actually missing 2 tracks, not just one. But, it adds a track that isn't on the album. The DVD is missing "An Imagined Affair" & "My Very Best", but adds a track called "McGreggor". You'll probably have to wait until my next podcast to hear McGreggor. Fair warning - it's pretty intesnse - Explicit Language and all that. In fact, the language is the reason I figured this out. I was wondering if a couple of the words were what I thought I was hearing, and when I checked the CD lyric sheet I couldn't find the song! ^_^ According to their website, Elbow had actually written 30 songs - it will interesting to hear more of these as b-sides. Cheers, Paul P.S. Speaking of Elbow and gravel voices, I'm now playing "Fresh Wine For The Horses" - Rob Dickinson's solo debut. Rob was the lead singer for Catherine Wheel. It's very "Catherine-esque", but quieter. It's a good solid set of songs - not quite as expansive as Catherine Wheel's finest moments, but not as hit-or-miss as their last album either. Those of you who are Talk Talk fans might be interested to know that two of the tracks were co-written with Tim Friese-Greene. There's also a very straighforward cover of Warren Zevon's The Mutineer on solo piano. You'll probably get to hear some of this on an upcoming podcast as well. (Trust me - that's a good thing! ^_^) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:47:34 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] Arctic Monkeys encore Further to last week's discussion a friend (coincidentally the same one who thought that Microdisney released the best album of all time if you're reading this sequentially) has lent me a CDR of 17 (yes, seventeen) Arctic Monkeys songs he'd downloaded off the Internet. None of these are live bootlegs - they're all studio recordings as far as I can tell. It's not an album either as they haven't even released their first single yet. My friend's not exactly technologically literate either so the tracks must be reasonably freely available. This is a pretty astonishing way of going about things which has paid off handsomely as they are now playing the Astoria in London tomorrow instead of the smaller Mean Fiddler underneath. Yet again, downloading is shown to get people more interested in music. Musically it's not half bad - a hint of Kaiser Chiefs in the lyrical wordplay and subject matter, some White Stripes but with a fuller sound, maybe a bit of The Jam and a more together early Fall. My favourite song is From the Ritz to the Rubble, which starts off like John Cooper Clarke, turns into a song about being turned away by a bouncer and ending in a wig-out as the singer ruminates Last night what we talked about It made so much sense But now the haze has ascended It don't make no sense anymore Which I can sympathise with. Not a great band by any means but unavoidable for the next year. Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:48:19 -0700 From: "nowhere man" Subject: [idealcopy] link to music from band i was with in the 80's. kurt cobain and perry farrell bot cited the band as a big influence http://www.kittyfeet.com/hatefed.htm "The illusion of freedom [in America] will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." - -Frank Zappa ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #269 *******************************