From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #262 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, September 29 2005 Volume 08 : Number 262 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Ear plugs might be handy [Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] Ear plugs might be handy Chronic Epoch events Week 3 (Wed 28 Sept - Sun 2 Oct, 2005) Sunday 2 October 12-2pm, lower space Bob and Roberta Smith9s Sunday Cement Soup Kitchen with guests Phil Coy and Dave Carbone present the third in their series of collaborative Drum Lectures. Bob and Roberta9s customised cement sculptures made to order from #2. - ------------------------------------------------------ 2pm, arch BRUCE GILBERT An improvisation using analogue and digital sound-modifying devices. Parts of the performance will be dependent on the physical and acoustic qualities of the performing area. Be warned - some of the sounds may be of an extreme or loud nature. - ------------------------------------------------------ 2pm, lower space Ten Years x 7 (Five Years x 50% + Superstition x 70% + Thirteen Years x 130% + She9s Nineteen x 190% + 21st Independence x 210% + One Hundred Years From Now x 1000% + 400 Years x 4000%) Mark Dean9s Ten Years x 7 takes as its source seven records, each one referencing a number of years (from David Bowie9s Five Years to Bob Marley9s 400 Years). These recordings have then been time-stretched to a relative duration of ten years apiece (eg Five Years slowed to 50%, 400 Years speeded to 4000%) The result is a durational projection lasting one side of an LP, or a lifetime. All welcome. Free entry. Soup, cake and drinks available. No booking necessary for any of the events. All events are part of Chronic Epoch (1995-2005 the celebration of a decade), a ten week exhibition celebrating Beaconsfield9s 10th anniversary. Weekend performance, talks and screenings will run throughout the exhibition, from 2pm unless otherwise advertised (see website for details). Beaconsfield, 22 Newport Street, London, SE11 6AY Tel: 020 7582 6465 www.beaconsfield.ltd.uk __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:38:57 +0100 From: "John Hobson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview But can he sing? I've never seen it myself and I go all the way back to Soft Machine 3 when he first warbled. Came over as an alround decent chap but an aquired taste methinks. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Knight" To: "Idealcopy" Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:19 AM Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/documentaries/?focuswin > > For anyone with an interest in Robert Wyatt I recommend this interview > by Phil Manzanera which should be up for a few days more yet. > > Wyatt is such a genuinely nice bloke as well as being a remarkable > musician and singer. Very much one of Our Chief of Men (other Brit > candidates for which are, um, Michael Palin, Ken Loach, David > Attenborough, J G Ballard, Alan Moore.) > > Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:45:11 +0100 From: "John Hobson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better The problem with the second FF is similiar to that which hit Coldplay with their 3rd. Keep to the tried and tested or try and move the goalposts and hope your fan base keeps with you. Coldplay bottled it and ran away from the Kraftwork influenced vibe they were going. On the other hand Radiohead a few years back managed to move position and if anything became bigger with far more challenging work. Wire are of course are the exemplars for never standing still. Makes you wonder if Chairs Missing had just have been a Pink Flag 2 would they gone on to become as bigger band by building on their audience? > We're in a climate where anything reasonably tuneful and spunky played by > pretty skinny boys with guitars and tight trousers is cool and marketable > (Maximo Park, Futureheads, Bloc Party etc etc etc) > > Had they been born 20 years younger FF would be languishing on Rough > Trade, maybe sell out the Brixton Academy if they were lucky, scrape the > top 50 album charts and get on The Tube. > Today everyone can buy a bit of, watered down, "alternative music" in > Tescos...TOTP is relegated to Sunday nights and anyone can go on there now > (who cares....your dad isn't watching that anymore cos Antiques Roadshow > is on) > > I suppose there is the chance that some of these very young and naive > bands could go on to produce excellent 3rd, 5th, 6th albums but might get > eaten up by the marketing machine before they get chance to really shine. > Some probably got a lot further than they really should have (Kasabian?!) > > Ah well. Plenty of other more interesting music out there if Franz > Ferdiand are too interested in their trousers to make any. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:24:56 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview >>But can he sing? I've never seen it myself and I go all the way back to Soft Machine 3 when he first warbled. Came over as an alround decent chap but an aquired taste methinks.<< Nothing is more certain to cause boiling of the Bursa blood than comments like "can he sing?" applied to one of the most distinctive and extraordinary voices.... I recommend The Three Tenors live in Hyde Park. Proper singing 'n everything. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:43:23 -0500 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better warning - contentious assertions ahead I don't know about comparing Wire to Coldplay, FF or Radiohead. In many ways Wire (Mach I and II) remind me of the quote about the first Velvets album, which onlky sold 1000 copies, but everyone who bought one started a band. (or some such) WIre never had a huge following in terms of numbers. Certainly nothing to compare to Coldplay or Radiohead. But, essentially the sum total output of Coldplay, Radiohead and FF is slightly less interesting than my least favorite Wire song (although I cannot think at that moment what that song would be) if we take solo material it would be ABCDick's Love from He Said Take Care - - Which is infinatly more interesting than anything on, for instance, Amnesiac I dunno, I guess I just don't get it on that subject, I have listened to Takk a few times now after several comments here and elsewhere and my impression of Sigur Roos remains unchanged The don't suck That's just not enough for me these days... Lest you get the impression that I am hopelessly mired in the past there have been a few releases in 2005 which have rocked my world Pine*Am - Pull the Rabbitt Ears Beck - Guerro Tanya Donnelly - Whisky Tango Ghosts Ula - Just An Engine Anything on 360degrees records Shakira - Fixacion Oral Vol 1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:44:20 +0100 From: Norm Fasey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview > I recommend The Three Tenors live in Hyde Park. Proper singing 'n > everything. Yeah but can Pavarotti eat pies? Judging by the look of him I would say yes! All of them... Norm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:54:23 +0100 From: Norm Fasey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview >>But can he sing? Seriously though. Surely whether he can sing or not is irrelevant! Anyone can sing, even Mr Lydon! More to the point, is the noise that comes out of his mouth pleasing to the ear? In Robert Wyatts case I would have to say yes it is! I am going to jump on the populist bandwagon and choose something more accessible by him.... Have a listen to 'Shipbuilding' and tell me it isn't one of the most haunting songs you have ever heard. Hands up who thinks the singer of the Super Furry Animals has more than a smattering of Wyatt about his voice. Erm... thats just me then... Norm +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- PGP Public Key can be found at the following address. https://keyserver-beta.pgp.com/vkd/DownloadKey.event?keyid=0xC8E2CA24F05C58CA +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > ----- Message from MarkBursa@aol.com --------- > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:24:56 EDT > From: MarkBursa@aol.com > Reply-To: MarkBursa@aol.com > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview > To: xerif@dsl.pipex.com, idealcopy@smoe.org > > >>But can he sing? I've never seen it myself and I go all the way back to > Soft Machine 3 when he first warbled. Came over as an alround decent chap > but an aquired taste methinks.<< > > > Nothing is more certain to cause boiling of the Bursa blood than comments > like "can he sing?" applied to one of the most distinctive and extraordinary > voices.... > > I recommend The Three Tenors live in Hyde Park. Proper singing 'n > everything. > > > > > > Mark > > > ----- End message from MarkBursa@aol.com ----- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:10:20 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better >>> We're in a climate where anything reasonably tuneful and spunky played by > pretty skinny boys with guitars and tight trousers is cool and marketable > (Maximo Park, Futureheads, Bloc Party etc etc etc)<< It's fiundamentally not a bad thing though is it? Surely the availability of a substantial distribution channel for "alternative" music will let some of the more left-field stuff through to the wider consciousness?? or are we being (gasp!) music snobs that want our little obsure bands all to ourselves? >>> Had they been born 20 years younger FF would be languishing on Rough > Trade, maybe sell out the Brixton Academy if they were lucky, scrape the > top 50 album charts and get on The Tube.<< Surely that's a function of more sophisticated marketing, faster communication and better distribution? It was possible after all to become a very succesful indie guitar band 20 years ago - The Smiths, for example. >>> Today everyone can buy a bit of, watered down, "alternative music" in > Tescos...TOTP is relegated to Sunday nights and anyone can go on there now > (who cares....your dad isn't watching that anymore cos Antiques Roadshow > is on)<< Again a functin of the poor quality of much of "chart pop" - and even the good quality stuff is so "target marketed" toward its intended audience that the 30something or 40something middle-class music fan (ie most of this list) can see right through it. >> I suppose there is the chance that some of these very young and naive > bands could go on to produce excellent 3rd, 5th, 6th albums but might get > eaten up by the marketing machine before they get chance to really shine. > Some probably got a lot further than they really should have (Kasabian?!) > > Ah well. Plenty of other more interesting music out there if Franz > Ferdiand are too interested in their trousers to make any.<<< From what I've seen of 2nd album Franz, it's quite a bit different from the first - darker and more Beefheartian (as befits a band that hangs out with the Fire Engines) - though I've only seen live versions. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:26:07 +0100 From: "John Hobson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview It's called fair comment: no need to be so petulant if others disagree. The guy is an acquired taste like Bjork , Mark E Smith,r Kate Bush or Tom Waits. Some voices you like some you don't. Robert I don't get. I'd suspect I'm not alone but no doubt the thought Police will after me now! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview >>>But can he sing? I've never seen it myself and I go all the way back to > Soft Machine 3 when he first warbled. Came over as an alround decent chap > but an aquired taste methinks.<< > > > Nothing is more certain to cause boiling of the Bursa blood than comments > like "can he sing?" applied to one of the most distinctive and > extraordinary > voices.... > > I recommend The Three Tenors live in Hyde Park. Proper singing 'n > everything. > > > > > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:24:42 -0700 From: silvertonguedshnake Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview soft machine! can mick jagger sing? pavaroti's voice is cracking isn't it? robert wyatt rules! and has brains too boot. i concur with mark. boiling blood and all. this could "make your curls....straighten out". MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>>But can he sing? I've never seen it myself and I go all the way back to >>> >>> >Soft Machine 3 when he first warbled. Came over as an alround decent chap >but an aquired taste methinks.<< > > >Nothing is more certain to cause boiling of the Bursa blood than comments >like "can he sing?" applied to one of the most distinctive and extraordinary >voices.... > >I recommend The Three Tenors live in Hyde Park. Proper singing 'n everything. > > > > > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:37:54 -0700 From: "i'd rather make furniture" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better were chairs missing to have been pink flag 2 they would have been the ramones.........wire is thinking persons music no matter how you cut it............which would never go over here in the colonies. it has to be tamed, dumbed down, and in the words of frank zappa "amerikkka craves mediocrity" in music. i'm not saying the ramones were not a thinking persons music as it's not completely vapid yet fun, but turning everything into a cartoon and a joke is one way of thinking people dealing, or not, with a world gone wrong. if the dumbing down of music were not the norm, bands like wire would not have stood so tall above the fray. they maintained their integrity through it all. they didn't resort to cross dressing and ambiguous sexuality to sequester millions of pounds and then confide it was all artifice after they were well off like a certain mr. jones. ah, ho hum, home life inteferes.......later John Hobson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:35 AM > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much > Better > > > The problem with the second FF is similiar to that which hit Coldplay > with their 3rd. Keep to the tried and tested or try and move the > goalposts and hope your fan base keeps with you. > > Coldplay bottled it and ran away from the Kraftwork influenced vibe > they were going. On the other hand Radiohead a few years back managed > to move position and if anything became bigger with far more > challenging work. > > Wire are of course are the exemplars for never standing still. Makes > you wonder if Chairs Missing had just have been a Pink Flag 2 would > they gone on to become as bigger band by building on their audience? > >> We're in a climate where anything reasonably tuneful and spunky >> played by pretty skinny boys with guitars and tight trousers is cool >> and marketable (Maximo Park, Futureheads, Bloc Party etc etc etc) >> >> Had they been born 20 years younger FF would be languishing on Rough >> Trade, maybe sell out the Brixton Academy if they were lucky, scrape >> the top 50 album charts and get on The Tube. >> Today everyone can buy a bit of, watered down, "alternative music" in >> Tescos...TOTP is relegated to Sunday nights and anyone can go on >> there now (who cares....your dad isn't watching that anymore cos >> Antiques Roadshow is on) >> >> I suppose there is the chance that some of these very young and naive >> bands could go on to produce excellent 3rd, 5th, 6th albums but might >> get eaten up by the marketing machine before they get chance to >> really shine. Some probably got a lot further than they really should >> have (Kasabian?!) >> >> Ah well. Plenty of other more interesting music out there if Franz >> Ferdiand are too interested in their trousers to make any. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:57:19 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Better On Wed, Sep 28, 2005 at 10:43:23AM -0500, David McKenzie wrote: > But, essentially the sum total output of Coldplay, Radiohead and FF is > slightly less interesting than my least favorite Wire song > (although I cannot think at that moment what that song would be) > if we take solo material it would be ABCDick's Love from He Said Take Care > - Which is infinatly more interesting than anything on, for instance, > Amnesiac > I dunno, I guess I just don't get it "Everything In Its Right Place". I dunno. Radiohead were "that band" for me - the one you got into when the teenage you really, really needed something to hang onto, but EIIRP - which is much later in their career, I started listening to them around the time of The Bends - still completely floors me. They're genuinely interesting - not cutting-edge per se, no, but what they do is very much of their own sensibility and motivated by their own interests. Franz Ferdinand are good fun, a good laugh live, and their tracks sound good in dodgy indie discos. They're a party band, and successful at it. Mind you, I love the Sigur Ros record; I'm looking forward to Boards of Canada's "The Campfire Headphase"; and anyone else with a guitar-pop bone in their body owes it to themselves to have a listen to "Welcome Home, Loser" by the Broken Family Band. That probably disqualifies me from any tastemaker conversations, but I'm OK with that. Andrew - -- http://www.lexical.org.uk/ | http://covertmusic.com/ | work: adw27@cam.ac.uk "nineteen sixty-nine in the sunshine" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:58:58 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Bett er I like Amnesiac and He Said Take Care about equally myself - good bits, bad bits. Makes it all the more unfair that one is almost entirely (and unfairly) unknown while the other has sold by the bucket load to people who probably don't play it any more anyway... >>>>>ABCDick's Love from He Said Take Care - - Which is infinatly more interesting than anything on, for instance, Amnesiac<<<<< ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.clearswift.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:42:36 -0700 From: the end of an ear Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview downloading right now Norm Fasey wrote: > >>But can he sing? > >Seriously though. Surely whether he can sing or not is irrelevant! Anyone can >sing, even Mr Lydon! More to the point, is the noise that comes out of his >mouth pleasing to the ear? In Robert Wyatts case I would have to say yes it is! >I am going to jump on the populist bandwagon and choose something more >accessible by him.... Have a listen to 'Shipbuilding' and tell me it isn't one >of the most haunting songs you have ever heard. > >Hands up who thinks the singer of the Super Furry Animals has more than a >smattering of Wyatt about his voice. Erm... thats just me then... > >Norm > >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > >PGP Public Key can be found at the following address. > >https://keyserver-beta.pgp.com/vkd/DownloadKey.event?keyid=0xC8E2CA24F05C58CA > >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > > > > >>----- Message from MarkBursa@aol.com --------- >> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:24:56 EDT >> From: MarkBursa@aol.com >>Reply-To: MarkBursa@aol.com >> Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview >> To: xerif@dsl.pipex.com, idealcopy@smoe.org >> >> >> >>>>But can he sing? I've never seen it myself and I go all the way back to >>>> >>>> >>Soft Machine 3 when he first warbled. Came over as an alround decent chap >>but an aquired taste methinks.<< >> >> >>Nothing is more certain to cause boiling of the Bursa blood than comments >>like "can he sing?" applied to one of the most distinctive and extraordinary >>voices.... >> >>I recommend The Three Tenors live in Hyde Park. Proper singing 'n >>everything. >> >> >> >> >> >>Mark >> >> >>----- End message from MarkBursa@aol.com ----- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:40:34 -0700 From: pies in da skies Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview he should team up with paul prudhomme Norm Fasey wrote: >>I recommend The Three Tenors live in Hyde Park. Proper singing 'n >>everything. >> >> > >Yeah but can Pavarotti eat pies? Judging by the look of him I would say yes! All >of them... > >Norm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:38:27 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Franz Ferdinand-You Could Have It So Much Bett er >I like Amnesiac and He Said Take Care about equally myself - good bits, bad > bits. Makes it all the more unfair that one is almost entirely (and > unfairly) unknown while the other has sold by the bucket load to people > who > probably don't play it any more anyway... > Yeah - but I'm sure these folks will buy Amnesiac someday! ^_- Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:29:08 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview > It's called fair comment: no need to be so petulant if others disagree. > > The guy is an acquired taste like Bjork , Mark E Smith,r Kate Bush or Tom > Waits. Some voices you like some you don't. > > Robert I don't get. I'd suspect I'm not alone but no doubt the thought > Police will after me now! > I'm with you, John. I like the idea of Robert Wyatt - he seems a smashing bloke and all that, and I really enjoyed that BBC3 programme about him a while back, but I have to say the worst part of the programme was the bits where he sang. I tried to like him, honestly I did! As for you, Mr Bursa, you'll be telling me you like Peter Hammill next! ; ) K. I watched th ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:10:24 -0700 From: who are the brain police Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview i was in the ophelias.we thought peter hammill was god. i still like him...not that you asked...sorry Keith A wrote: >>It's called fair comment: no need to be so petulant if others disagree. >> >>The guy is an acquired taste like Bjork , Mark E Smith,r Kate Bush or Tom >>Waits. Some voices you like some you don't. >> >>Robert I don't get. I'd suspect I'm not alone but no doubt the thought >>Police will after me now! >> >> >> > >I'm with you, John. > >I like the idea of Robert Wyatt - he seems a smashing bloke and all that, >and I really enjoyed that BBC3 programme about him a while back, but I have >to say the worst part of the programme was the bits where he sang. I tried >to like him, honestly I did! > >As for you, Mr Bursa, you'll be telling me you like Peter Hammill next! ; ) > >K. > >I watched th ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:04:55 -0500 From: David McKenzie Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview mmm - I could not find the interview yesterday and no better luck today and - yes! he can sing he hits all the notes On 9/27/05, Keith Knight wrote: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/documentaries/?focuswin > > For anyone with an interest in Robert Wyatt I recommend this interview > by Phil Manzanera which should be up for a few days more yet. > > Wyatt is such a genuinely nice bloke as well as being a remarkable > musician and singer. Very much one of Our Chief of Men (other Brit > candidates for which are, um, Michael Palin, Ken Loach, David > Attenborough, J G Ballard, Alan Moore.) > > Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:40:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Wyatt interview - --- David McKenzie wrote: >>mmm - I could not find the interview yesterday and no better luck today and << Niether could I :::::::: (twice the value) Ari If it's fun............do it.................. __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #262 *******************************