From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #154 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, June 9 2005 Volume 08 : Number 154 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: Rip It Up [rys01ajc@gold.ac.uk] Re: [idealcopy] a fond thankyou............ [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] a fond thankyou............ [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Fwd: The Cure are featured on YAHOO! playing live Wednesday 1... [MarkBurs] Re: [idealcopy] Re: wire on googlism -- smoother than ever for a place on the subs bench [Derek White Fergus Kelly said: > > Phew ! Just finished Simon Reynolds' excellent book, > Rip It Up And Start Again: Postpunk 1978 - 1984. ... > Unfortunately our US listees will have to wait till > next year before an American edition is published. > > > I say: > > Excellent book indeed. US listees should find a way to get the UK > edition. I hear from a reliable source that the American edition will be > considerably shorter. One of the most impressive things about the book is > the level of detail across a wide range of topics (a great chapter on ZTT > for example) without descending into anorakism. I fear the US version may > lose this. Hi, My first post in ages - this book is well worth the read but I can't help wishing the section on 78-80 had been expanded to the length of the whole book. The list of people interviewed (which I think included all of Wire) must have generated a lot more opinion and anecdote than finally appeared. The subsequent chapters on 81 and beyond seemed to me to warrant another book (which must admit I'd be less interested in reading). Any chance of an updated version of the Wire book ? Regards, Tony. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:50:04 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a fond thankyou............ > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:35:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ari > Subject: [idealcopy] a fond thankyou............ > Well, for better or worse/I'm back: a fond Hi to all > of you. Ari >>>>>> great news indeed...the list wouldn't be the same without ya....and since you told me to get off my ass and be a presence, maybe i should bore the kecks/pants off the rest of the list.... here we go: selected reading as of late: "Derek Jarman's Garden" (beautiful book with pictures of Jarman's garden and humble home) "The Films of Luis Bunuel" - an overview of all Bunuel's films... "Metamorphosis" - Kafka (had a craving for some classics lately...especially as this one captures my feelings of late of being a bug trapped in my room ) "One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest" - Ken Kesey (another book that i can relate to lately..lol) "Being Nobody, Going Nowhere" - meditations on the buddhist path selected viewing: "Haack: the King of Techno" a great film documentary about the twisted genius of Bruce Haack ..detailing his great children's records and appearance on Mister Roger's Neighborhood on through his decent into bitterness and anger over the Viet Nam War... The Major Indoor Soccer League - Championship Finals (game two from the Savvis Center in St. Louis, MO) - Milwaukee Wave 10, Cleveland Force 9 - double overtime..Milwaukee wins championship 2 games to none "He Who Gets Slapped" - starring the great Lon Chaney in tragic clown mode "The Unknown" - starring Lon Chaney as a circus performer (and murderer) who actually has his arms cut off for the girl he loves... "Donnie Darko" "The Nomi-song" - documenting the life of the late great Klaus Nomi ...the clips of Nomi singing back-up for Bowie on Saturday Night Live are priceless... Road Rules/Real World Challenge....i only watch this MTV crap because i am extremely taken with the 5-1 Cuban-American hottie named Veronica.... selected listening: Nurse With Wound - "The Little Dipper Minus Two - Echo Poeme No. 2" gig-only cd Zeena Parkins and Ikue Mori - Phantom Orchard (Mego) Genesis - "Wind & Wuthering" (atlantic) ISAN - "Clockwork Menagerie" (morr music) Coil - "Selvaggina Go Back Into the Woods" (live cd from Jesi Italy) Bola - "Gnayse" (skam) The Cure - "Faith" (Fiction) The Fall - "This Nation's Saving Grace" The Smiths - "Meat is Murder" Siouxsie & The Banshees - "Kiss in the Dreamhouse" David Bowie - "The Man Who Sold the World" Carter-Tutti - "Cabal" Chrystal Belle Scrodd "Belle De Jour" (klangalerie) selected eating: shish-taouk bo-lac-luc Jamaican jerk chicken over wild rice mashed chick peas Swedish Fish (the green ones in particular) mango electrico Gatorade (sounds odd but it's delicious) selected clothing: various t-shirts and cargo shorts because it's freakin' hot here in the midwestern USA.....92 F today....those who live in the northern USA or in Europe , be thankful.. RL - Ari, bet you wish i would have stayed quiet! ..hahahahhahaha..."leave sleeping dragons lie/careful for what you wish for" as the old sayings go... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:19:29 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a fond thankyou............ Really nice to have you back Ari Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:54:55 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fwd: The Cure are featured on YAHOO! playing live Wednesday 1... >>The Cure are featured on YAHOO! playing live Wednesday 15th June 2005<< What's interesting about this is what constitutes the Cure these days. Having spent the past year remastering (and remastering very nicely) the first 4 albums, Bob has fired the keyboard player and second guitarist and slimmed the Cure back to a trio of him, Simon Gallup and the drummer. This is, IMO, a Very Good Thing, returning the band to the sparse sound they had when they made all their best albums. The Yahoo live thing seems to comprise only songs from the first 4 albums - presumably because that's all stuff that was designed to be played by a 3-piece band. Hopefully they'll play some non-festival gigs in this configuration. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:41:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: wire on googlism -- smoother than ever for a place on the subs bench Love it ! Maybe the GIGO law of computer systems needs revising : Sensible Queries In ; Mixed Sense & Garbage Out. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue as succinctly, though..... My favourites are "Graham Lewis is deserving of the aia? What is an "aia" ? And what has Graham done to deserve one, for good or ill, I wonder.....answers on a postcard, please. Also Bruce's entries :- "bruce gilbert is an artist that likes to experiment" [Ya think ?? :-o] Having heard (among other things) him musing about a recording of a kettle boiling on that Radio 4 program around the time Send came out, I wouldn't argue with *that*.... However, "bruce gilbert is a member of the firm's construction defect group" "bruce gilbert is a member of the firm's construction dispute group" possibly needs an update, in light of recent events....wonder if thats why he downed tools and left the site, so to speak ? Construction disputes ? Hmm.. ;-) "bruce gilbert is an artist with a unique ear sometimes possessed by genius* With the accent on *sometimes*, I guess, but that's the lot of the experimentor. Sometimes you hit the target, other times you balloon the ball over the bar. Get yer track-suit off, Colin. You're going on, son...... :-) HowardJSpencer@aol.com wrote: just found out by accident about googlism, which appears to be some sort of semi-serious search engine for digging specifically biographical information out of google. Below are the Wire 'hits', which are quite entertaining. I cut and paste thses as they came up, without elision or omission. Howard colin newman is most readily associated with wire colin newman is probably better known for his involvement with the art rock band wire colin newman is philosophical on the question of plagiarism colin newman is from london england colin newman is colin newman is particularly proud of the divine remix of madman?s honey and wanted it released as a single colin newman is involved with the band on a management level colin newman is more cynical still colin newman is smoother than ever colin newman is back and he still doesn't give a damn what you think graham lewis is an artist whose career has spanned twenty years and nearly as many music styles graham lewis is best graham lewis is currently creating the systems and so it is important that we have details of your e graham lewis is working on a collaboration cd with john duncan graham lewis is the managing director of engineous' uk graham lewis is an award graham lewis is a satsu research fellow graham lewis is de naam graham lewis is deserving of the aia graham lewis is pleased to have the opportunity of partnering p&w on the project graham lewis is close to making a return to the side and may be in line for a place on the subs bench on saturday graham lewis is vice president of networking at cheney communications company graham lewis is very much bruce gilbert is an artist that likes to experiment bruce gilbert is an artist with a unique ear sometimes possessed by genius bruce gilbert is a member of the firm's construction defect group bruce gilbert is a member of the firm's construction dispute group robert grey is the former drummer with art robert grey is himself readying for robert grey is in the lime green jacket talking to pfc malvo robert grey is known locally and nationally as a consensus builder robert grey is expected to make a final decision on network 21 rates by the end of february robert grey is robert grey is a past chairman of the house of delegates of the american bar association robert grey is a professor of political science at grinnell college robert grey is listed as the investment advisor on the account robert grey is a denver robert grey is about 200 yards from the bluff robert grey is running to support the stroke foundation in this year's london marathon Sorry, Google doesn't know enough about robert gotobed yet. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:08:04 -0700 From: "eBay Member: paulrabjohn@aol.com" Subject: [idealcopy] paul rabjohn sent you this eBay item: THE SLITS Promo Film DON LETTS Very Rare VHS Ari Up DUB (#4735669219) Please note that this is a system generated email. Please do not reply to this email. If you have questions, please click the following link or paste it in your browser. http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/contact_inline/index.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- paulrabjohn sent you this eBay item. Personal message: I saw this on eBay and thought you might be interested. bit pricey but loads of grat stuff.......i'm tempted. View this Item on eBay at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4735669219&ssPageName=AD ME:B:EF:UK:1 - ----------------------------------------------------------------- THE SLITS Promo Film DON LETTS Very Rare VHS Ari Up DUB Item number: 4735669219 - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Seller: kimelarin(125) Positive Feedback:99.2% Member since 12-Feb-00 in United States Buy It Now Price: US $24.95(Approximately #13.60) - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Time left: 23 hours 31 mins 7-day listing Ends 09-Jun-0519:39:23 BST Quantity: 7 available Item location: Los Angeles, California United States Post to: Worldwide - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Summary THIS VIDEO CONTAINS THE VERY HARD TO FIND Don Letts PROMO FILM DONE IN 1979 TO PROMOTE THE RELEASE OF THE "CUT" ALBUM. IT FEATURES AN INTRO (BONGOS ON THE LAWN), WITH THE SLITS RUNNING AROUND TOPLESS COVERED IN MUD, AND THE MUSIC VIDEOS FOR Instant Hit, Spend Spend Spend, New Town, Typical Girls AND Hey Big Spender (Spend Spend Spend Dub Version). BONUS MATERIAL: JOHN PEEL (RIP) TALKS ABOUT THE SLITS, ROXY CLUB DOCUMENTARY FEAT. THE SLITS, "ARI UP" INTERVIEW IN JAMAICA 1998, "VIV ALBERTINE" INTERVIEW, SLITS CLIPS FROM "GIRLS BITE BACK" (WOMEN IN ROCK) FEAT. Animal Space/Spacier, I Heard It Through The Grapevine, Man Next Door, INTERVIEW, SLITS CLIPS FROM "JUBILEE", SLITS CLIPS FROM "PUNK THE EARLY YEARS" FEAT. Slime, So Tough, Vaseline, INTERVIEW, "VIV ALBERTINE" INTERVIEW, SLITS CLIPS FROM "THE PUNK ROCK MOVIE" FEAT. Slits Rehearsal, Vaseline, Newtown. IF YOU LOVE THE SLITS VERSION OF DUB/REGGAE/PUNK YOU NEED THIS VIDEO. THE OVERALL QUALITY IS VERY GOOD. THIS VIDEO IS IN NTSC FORMAT FOR AMERICAN, CANADIAN AND JAPANESE VCRs. I HAVE MANY MORE Hard To Find AND Out Of Print MUSIC VIDEOS (AND RELATED FILMS). MOSTLY PUNK, NEW WAVE, ROCK 'N' ROLL & REGGAE. ASK FOR SPECIFIC TITLES, IF INTERESTED. STILL WORKING ON MY E-LIST. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Protect yourself from Spoof (fake) emails. Learn More at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/education/spooftutorial. You are receiving this email because the sender thought you would be interested in this eBay item. You can report this message as unwanted (spam) email at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rfe-spam-ov.html. Learn more about spam email at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rfe-spam-ov.html. As outlined in our User Agreement, eBay will periodically send you information about site changes and enhancements. Visit our Privacy Policy at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/privacy-policy.html and User Agreement at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/user-agreement.html if you have any questions. Copyright ) 2005 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:35:52 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a fond thankyou............ > The Smiths - "Meat is Murder" I didn't have you down as a Smiths fan, Robert! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:01:48 -0700 From: "eBay Member: paulrabjohn@aol.com" Subject: [idealcopy] paul rabjohn sent you this eBay item: = WIRE(Punk) CD Japan w/obi SEND (#4737270248) - ----------------------------------------------------------------- paulrabjohn sent you this eBay item. Personal message: I saw this on eBay and thought you might be interested. wonder how big wire actually are in jaoan............. View this Item on eBay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4737270248&ssPageName=ADME :B:EF:US:1 - ----------------------------------------------------------------- = WIRE(Punk) CD Japan w/obi SEND Item number: 4737270248 - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Seller: urabanchou(15141) Positive Feedback:99.0% Member since Apr-02-01 in Japan Starting bid: US $9.99 - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Time left: 4 days 10 hours 5-day listing Ends Jun-12-0523:20:59 PDT Item location: Japan Japan Post to: Worldwide - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Summary Cat.#/PCD 23321Artist/ WIRETitle/ SENDConditionDescriptioncoverexcellent........discexcellent.....obiexcellent. ..Comment/w/obi.........w/insert.Please click the link below and take a look about... Pay me securely with any major credit card through PayPal!Please click here to see my other auctions. Powered by eBay Turbo Lister - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Protect yourself from Spoof (fake) emails. Learn More at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/education/spooftutorial. You are receiving this email because the sender thought you would be interested in this eBay item. You can report this message as unwanted (spam) email at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rfe-spam-ov.html. Learn more about spam email at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rfe-spam-ov.html. As outlined in our User Agreement, eBay will periodically send you information about site changes and enhancements. Visit our Privacy Policy at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/privacy-policy.html and User Agreement at http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/user-agreement.html if you have any questions. Copyright ) 2005 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] O.T: everbody's doing it so.................. .......... here's my current 'thingy's' list. Now Reading: Scientific American,(May issue) Umberto Eco: The Mysterious Flame of Queen Loana looking forward to: the new edition of 'The Big Takeover'now being shipped. ( www.thebigtakeover.com ) Books: Just finished Lost Horizon by James Hilton (a fave from years ago) Lined up: The Wilco book Baudolini by Umberto Eco The Broker and Painted House by John Grisham, and Clinton's 'My Life' recent movies seen: Sin City,Hithch Hikers Guide. Looking forward to the new Batman movie (coulda done without Michael Cane as the butler though) shall wait for the dvd release of the latest star wars Music: Lot's of Radiohead 'hard to gets' (thanx Bruno) Modest Mouse,Tom Waits: next: Television (live at the Old Waldorf) talking of T.V, now that the 4th season of '24' is over, only occasionally watching the box, 'cept of course Austin City Limits, which ain't exactly 'Later' izit. later. Ari Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:11:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rip it up and start again >>Excellent book indeed. US listees should find a way to get the UK edition. I hear from a reliable source that the American edition will be considerably shorter.<< Reynolds himself says so on his Blog. Just buy the UK edition from Amazon. >> One of the most impressive things about the book is the level of detail across a wide range of topics (a great chapter on ZTT for example) without descending into anorakism. I fear the US version may lose this.<< It's a superb book - Reynolds is probably my favourite writer of this sort of stuff, and the book neatly plugs the gap between Jon Savage's England's Dreaming and Dave Cavanagh's Creation book - the three volumes together cover most of the UK alternative music territory from pre-punk to britpop in an entertaining and cohesive way. If I've any complaints about RIUASA they're minor - but here they are anyway ;-) Reynolds was a bit too young (and probably too provincial and too nerdy) to have experienced punk or post-punk at close quarters - he's obviously never seen a lot of the bands he eulogises. He admits to only discovering the Associates when they cropped up on TOTP (early 82 IIRC) - by which time they were about to release their 3rd album, and they'd gigged extensively throughout 1980. So what you get is a slightly mythologised view of the period, as expressed by the recorded output of the bands, and its visual accompaniment (hence his worship of the pic of Scritti Politti's smelly old squat!) Secondly, it's very south-centrc. Yes, I know it covers the regional scenes to some extent, but the take on post-punk was very different in the north, where the Manchester/Sheffield/Liverpool scenes cast a very long shadow. Reynolds unfairly dismisses most of the non-JD Factory roster, and there's no sense of the anticipation that New Order created in 1981-82 - there was no bigger event in most of the towns they played at that point. There's probably too much on the 'new pop' angle - really that was driven by big label manufactured pop like Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet - and groups like the Human League and ABC hitched their coattails to that. The effect of Ian Curtis' suicide should not be understated here too; it forced a lightening up of even the darkest bands. Finally, got to say this, but Reynolds' dismissal of the Cure's 1980-82 output is simply putting prejudice ahead of the facts. I've been listening to the reissues of 17 second/Faith/Porn a lot and age has not withered those albums. Especially 17secs. And I doubt whether there was a more influential band at that point. I think Si's just pissed off that they created large elements of Goth! Also I wish he'd included a chapter on German post-punk, though admittedly little of it fed back to the UK (DAF, Neubauten aside). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:26:51 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: But Badgers couldn't compensate at twice the price So there I was intending to go and see the Magic Band this evening when a friend offers me a spare ticket for Roxy Music at the Koko. As this is a reasonably small venue (the former Camden Palace, New Romantic fans) and as I haven't seen them since, ooh, 1981 or so I take up the offer while regretting the loss of the Magic Band who were so awesome last year. This is a gig for the fanbase, tickets announcements released through lists like this one. I'm a long way from this. Although I've always liked Roxy's first two albums and can remember the first time I heard Virginia Plain (in a holiday caravan, where it stopped me short) I've always been a far-off admirer. This is a humongous Roxy - 12 people around the core of Ferry, Manzanera, Mackay and the Great Paul Thompson. Chris Spedding's here on guitar looking old, and I realise its 30 years since I saw him on the seminal John Cale punk-precursor tour, all leathers and straitjackets. Jeesus. There are frankly too many players - - does Manzanera really need two other guitarists? Mackay is in good puff, and I realise that - with VdGG coming up again on Saturday - I will see the two great rock sax players in four days. Ferry looks, frankly, great, same build, same hair. He's obviously enjoying it - he laughs at the younger version who wrote 'Bored with the Beguine, the Samba isn't your scene'. God, what a fine lyricist Ferry was back then, criminally underrated by me at least. 'In Every Dreamhome a Heartache' sounds bang up to date, a magnificent lyric and noisescape. Listening to this music reminds me how much we take that flowering of 70s talent for granted - just how far down the pecking order are this band? Yet they're great! Impressively, there are a good three or four songs from the deep canon I don't recognise tonight. And by and large they sound fine although there is a little unwarranted nurdling here and there. It's a good hour before the usual crowd-pleasers are wheeled out, but there's an avoidance of the early 80s. There's Both Ends Burning, coruscatingly performed. Editions of You, my favourite Roxy track, burns it way into my heart all over again. And Virginia Plain sound as fresh as the day in that caravan. A fine evening out. Stay cool is still the main rule. Another the Keith [spotted at the bar later - Glen Matlock and one of the Kemp brothers. Presumably he hasn't left the venue since 1981] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 12:02:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rip it up and start again >>Enlighten me, Mark. What was the souths contribution to all this? Surely, once you've taken out Wire, Lydon, etc who came from the punk movement itself, you're left with little more than The Sound (one of my all-time fave bands) and the all the Blitz kids.<< Oh, come on - there's all the Rough Trade/squat stuff which is absolutely central to post-punk - Scritti, Raincoats, Slits, This Heat etc; I guess you'd probably lump the Pop Group in with that lot - not sure to what extent they remained based in Bristol during the period. A lot of the dub/funk influence on post-punk came from that lot, and Reynolds absolutely loves them (rightfully!) >>Whereas the cities you name (and Scotland) provided virtually all of the bands that I think of when Ihear the term 'post-punk'.<< Largely because there were strong indie labels in those cities (Factory, Zoo, Postcard, Fast etc). How can you not like the Comsat Angels if you love the Sound? You're a riddle wrapped in an enigma, Mr A. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:30:08 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rip it up and start again i'm getting really annoyed that i've had this book for a month and read about , ooh , 8 pages. i think i'll save it for my holiday as it looks like it'll be ......absorbing. anyway , why did all 2nd generation goth bands come from leeds? p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #154 *******************************