From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #138 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, May 24 2005 Volume 08 : Number 138 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] We Jam Econo [Fergus Kelly ] Re: [idealcopy] Fall antics / Holland on Holland [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Fall antics / Holland on Holland ["John Hobson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Buddhead [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] jane gazzo's dream ticket [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 02:39:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] We Jam Econo Derek said: I'd heard from the cognoscenti that this version of the band were well-drilled:- god only knows what a BAD Fall sounds like, as I thought they really stank. ))) I thought they sounded OK. I'm not a massive Fall fan, but I do like to hear some stuff from time to time, and have seen them play a couple of times in Dublin. I hadn't heard Blindness and rather enjoyed it. MES was no better or worse than I expected. The black glove reminded me less of Alvin Stardust rather than some 50s B-movie strangler - all he needed was the "thuggy cord". I NEVER expected them to join in with the chummy jam session, and was quite happy to see them wave at the panning camera. I'm just surprised they even agreed to go on the programme in the first place, and was glad to see them. Where else would we get to see them on telly ? And aas for the droning synth note schtick:- har har. Laugh ? I thought I'd never start. ))) Completely consistent with MES general stage antics and no surprise whatsoever, and certainly not a punk gesture by any means. I've never had much time for Holland as I generally find him a patronising little git, but to his credit, I thought he handled it well, turning it into his own rather poor joke, and sort of pulling the rug from under MES. It was all so harmless... ...and on a different 'note' altogether... I saw a great documentary on The Minutemen last night (rare one-off screening), called "We Jam Econo". Wonderful stuff. What an incredible band they were, and all round excellent bunch of guys. Incredible energy and commitment to the music, very inspiring. Amazing players, but so un-showy with it. George Hurley's superquiff in it's peroxide phase made him look like some musclebound cross between John McGeogh & Howard Jones... Mike Watt even showed us the very tree from which d.boon fell out of, and on top of Watt, when they first met, aged 13... I'd definitely put "Double Nickels On The Dime" up there with "154" as one of the greatest records of all time... Some great early 80s video footage, even if the sound quality wasn't the greatest, but it was the early 80s after all.. our swimmer Mr. Newman appears in interview for about 30 seconds, on foot of Mike Watt's citing of Wire & The Pop Group as particular points of reference. So sad to think it's nearly 20 years since d.boon died... rest in peace.. your spirit lives on.. Just put up some a photoset of the LMC Festival 2000, with shots of Lee Renaldo, Charles Hayward, Jean-Herve Peron, amongst others, for anyome interested.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/sets/361191/ Fergus Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:19:18 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall antics / Holland on Holland > Absolutely right. I've no particular vested interest in the Fall, > although I'm certainly partial from time to time; it was, however, > pretty much everything that I'd hope of an appearance amid Holland's > ghastly back-slapping muso-fest.... > > The refusal to join in with the introductory jamming session was, of > course, completely childish. Hurrah for childishness, amid so much > that's adult and mature and self-satisfied. Hurrah, too, for refusing > to join in with the general bonhomie, for rejecting the shallow > pretence that all music is great and all musicians are wonderful. > Hurrah, for a band that can still manage to create those kind of > punch-the-air-in-celebration moments after so long. > > The first song was indeed an utter shambles. Hurrah for that, when > every other band seems to use the show as a career-defining moment, or > a marketing opportunity, or a reward for past endeavours. Hurrah for > chance, for randomness, for possibility. And hurrah for the second > song, also an utter shambles and yet stalked by that filthy bastard of > a riff, exactly the sound that the Fall should be making in 2005. > Mighty, I thought. > > No, the world didn't end. Yes, Holland will be back next week, with > another transmission from music's comfort zone. But at least > something slightly different happened, a minor interruption to normal > service. At least someone stood up and sneered at it all, before > shuffling off to tell the tale to anyone who'd listen in the local > boozer. Hurrah for that. That sure are a lot of hurrah's! However my question stands: If the Fall are so above Later why use their platform in the first place? In this case I'd sooner cheer Jools' chumminess cause despite of it I usually quite enjoy Later. Though not perfect it's a formula I'm quite willing to (re)visit simply because there's nothing better around and nearly always there is at least one artist/band I really like. Usually I tape it and skip less interesting parts. >> Frank is on next week, BTW, solo sadly. Pixies would have been nicer... OK, so we had The Fall, Frank Black's on next and previous series we had to sit through the likes of Nick Cave, Interpol, Bloc Party, Mercury Rev, Franz Ferdinand, The Cure, PJ Harvey, Graham Coxon, David Byrne, Morrissey, REM, British Sea Power. My, what an utter bastard that Jools Holland is! ;-) >> Here, for the first time on Later for a very long while, was feral rock >> music developed under its own rules, not muso-finessed old toss. The Fall are amongst my very favourite bands, but they're no strangers to mannerism themselves, even if it is self developped. I expected a better performance of MES here - thought the band were ok though. Told many friends (who'd heard me going on and on about The Fall) they'd be playing Later and now they're probably forever lost as potential Fall fans. This can't be right now can it? But in spite of the sillyness it was still cool to see them live on telly... sure wish they'd gig Holland again. Just saw a poll on the Later website about who you liked best last friday. In a race between old dudes Robert Plant was only just leading with 28% over The Fall's 27%. So if you like you could give MES a push... My vote went to the still older dude Mose A.! http://www.bbc.co.uk/later >> As for the Pixies/Mose Allison thing, the fact that Frank says "Song about >> Mose Allison" at the start of the video to 'Allison' is a bit of a giveaway! True. The Allison video was shot in the old Ajax stadium (Olympisch Stadion) in Amsterdam when they appeared on Dutch television (VPRO's Moord-TV =Murder-TV) for the promotion of Bossanova in 1990. There was an extensive interview in which Frank spoke of his fondness of Mose Allison (shame this didn't make the dvd - sure was a more sparkling interview than the truckdriver one on the dvd). >> Though it's hard to see where the influence actually applies... It had something to do with Mose' rythmic and almost ska-like pianoplaying. And it is funny when you imagine Allison's famous "Parchman Farm" being played a little faster, how much it actually resembles "Vamos" ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 13:46:37 +0100 From: Ian Grant Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall antics / Holland on Holland On 5/23/05, Bart wrote: > That sure are a lot of hurrah's! However my question stands: If the Fall are > so above Later why use their platform in the first place? Leaving aside the fact that there aren't really any other platforms on British television, it's tempting just to ask the same question in reverse. Why not? It was bloody good fun, after all, and it achieved some sort of purpose: for the first time in eons, it actually seemed to me that the Fall mattered, in some small but fairly vital way. Much better than just skulking in the undergrowth.... Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:34:09 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: [idealcopy] Buddhead Just received a review from my brother who went to see Harold Budd's last concert before retireing in Brighton last Saturday. it seems Budd played all his crowdpleasing ambient tunes before the break (his two string quartets which I don't know stood out) only to close with a heavy multilayered droning piece which lasted a full hour, slowly building to a climax. Japan's Steve Jansen began improvising on gong, after 5 minutes Robin Guthrie blended in. Budd himself joined and Bill Nelson (Beebop DeLuxe), then the Balanescu Quartet. Only after 20 minutes or so Jah Wobble & Steve Jansen added a tightly played bass/drum base beneath the mega-drone. Apparently by this time the crowd was devided in those who either were in total ecstasy (my brother) or those who left or covered their ears in shock (his wife). He also said it brought the layeredness of Wire III to mind... right, like I would fall for that one. Probably just wants his named mentioned again on our beloved list ;-) Anyway, the survivers gave a standing ovation after which Budd just smiled a bit and left without an encore. Seems a stunning way to end your career! Doesn't sound anything like his last and (again) very friendly album Avalon Sutra (recently released on David Sylvian's Samadhi Sound label, see below). Bart http://tinyurl.com/9rjhw "Avalon Sutra is to be California-born American minimalist composer and pianist Harold Budd's last recorded work. Best known for his collaborations with Brian Eno, contributing his stunning piano work to key recordings such as 1980's Ambient 2: Plateau of Mirror, Budd has produced a series of remarkable minimalist compositions and recordings, including Pavilion of Dreams, The Pearl and The Room, which have earned him worldwide respect. Budd has collaborated with the Cocteau Twins' Robin Guthrie, Daniel Lanois, XTC's Andy Partridge and saxophonists Marion Brown and John Gibson amongst many others, and has been a major influence on the development of contemporary ambient and electronic music. Avalon Sutra (released as a 2 disc set) is a suite of short, heartbreaking ambient pieces, featuring Budd's delicate piano improvisations, lush string arrangements and warm electronic drones. The second disc ('As Long As I Can Hold My Breath') features a startling remix by LA based electronic composer Akira Rabelais, sending Budd's arrangements into Feldmanesque eternities of sound."'Avalon Sutra is Budd at the pinnacle of his creativity, a master of meditative beauty.' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:43:43 +0100 From: "John Hobson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall antics / Holland on Holland I'm amazed that anyone on this erudite list was taken in by the antics of MES! It was obviously contrived from the start (Jools had his punchline ready and the director knew where to place the camera plus there were no awkward cuts, the organ was silenced just before the next act and the bugger turned up at the end to wave bye bye!). What a brilliant Spin to state that Jools was banned from playing boogie woogie (although after MES's diabolical 'performance' that would have been a relief). Lot's of publicity all around. This used to be called hype in the days before spin. I knew MES in the early days and followed the Fall for may years until the sprogs arrived. All I can say is that he is now a drowining man and without Peel's undying support is probably rather desperate. Hence the turning up at Jools. No-one could be other than embarrassed by him. As for the rest of programme, I ignore Holland's links and rambling but there's usually an eclectic mix and any show which can include Plant, Go Team and the Fall can't be all bad. Mind you I don't get out much:-( ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 18:12:49 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall antics / Holland on Holland Ha, if it was contrived it would indeed be a different story... haven't thought of that. Did you know MES personally John? Bart > I'm amazed that anyone on this erudite list was taken in by the antics of > MES! It was obviously contrived from the start (Jools had his punchline > ready and the director knew where to place the camera plus there were no > awkward cuts, the organ was silenced just before the next act and the bugger > turned up at the end to wave bye bye!). > > What a brilliant Spin to state that Jools was banned from playing boogie > woogie (although after MES's diabolical 'performance' that would have been a > relief). Lot's of publicity all around. > > This used to be called hype in the days before spin. I knew MES in the early > days and followed the Fall for may years until the sprogs arrived. All I can > say is that he is now a drowining man and without Peel's undying support is > probably rather desperate. Hence the turning up at Jools. No-one could be > other than embarrassed by him. > > As for the rest of programme, I ignore Holland's links and rambling but > there's usually an eclectic mix and any show which can include Plant, Go > Team and the Fall can't be all bad. > > Mind you I don't get out much:-( ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 19:07:10 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Fall antics / Holland on Holland The Go! Team have taken over the lead in the Later poll for what its worth. And I note that on 3 June it's New Order, which will neatly bring together this week's two major topics of conversation. If Frank Black appears this week with the Two Pale Boys it will be worth tuning into, as I still can't believe how good that Frankblackfrancis reworking of Pixies songs is (although I frustratingly seem to have lost my copy somewhere). Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bart van Damme Just saw a poll on the Later website about who you liked best last friday. In a race between old dudes Robert Plant was only just leading with 28% over The Fall's 27%. So if you like you could give MES a push... My vote went to the still older dude Mose A.! http://www.bbc.co.uk/later ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 16:33:06 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Buddhead In a message dated 5/23/05 9:37:59 AM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > it seems Budd played all his crowdpleasing ambient tunes before the break > (his two string quartets which I don't know stood out) only to close with a > heavy multilayered droning piece which lasted a full hour, slowly building > to a climax. Japan's Steve Jansen began improvising on gong, after 5 minutes > Robin Guthrie blended in. Budd himself joined and Bill Nelson (Beebop > DeLuxe), then the Balanescu Quartet. Only after 20 minutes or so Jah Wobble > & Steve Jansen added a tightly played bass/drum base beneath the mega-drone. > i hope someone recorded it! wish i coulda seen it - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 00:40:14 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] jane gazzo's dream ticket Circlejerk04@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know how to record off of the bbc's website? I wish to get that > joy division set from last wednesday. > > I believe it was the same concert from the Les Bains Douches 18 Dec 1979 which of course is available to buy on CD of the same name. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 16:45:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Buddhead Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/23/05 9:37:59 AM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > it seems Budd played all his crowdpleasing ambient tunes before the break > (his two string quartets which I don't know stood out) only to close with a > heavy multilayered droning piece which lasted a full hour, slowly building > to a climax. Japan's Steve Jansen began improvising on gong, after 5 minutes > Robin Guthrie blended in. Budd himself joined and Bill Nelson (Beebop > DeLuxe), then the Balanescu Quartet. Only after 20 minutes or so Jah Wobble > & Steve Jansen added a tightly played bass/drum base beneath the mega-drone. > i hope someone recorded it! wish i coulda seen it - -paul c.d noticed Steve Jansen is performing with Ryuichi Sakamoto, Christian Fennesz, Skulli Sverrisson and others on Japanese tour j - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 08:21:26 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Buddhead > i hope someone recorded it! wish i coulda seen it Same here! I'm sure such an event will be DVD-ized Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 03:42:05 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] jane gazzo's dream ticket yes , its that gig but only about half of it. so nothing to get too excited about really......... ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #138 *******************************